Today we are joined by superfan and 8-time Mitch Rapp Ambassador, Brian Costello of The Comm Majors Podcast, to reflect on the legacy of Kyle Mills. Stay tuned as next week we discuss and rank each of Kyle's Mitch Rapp books!
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00:00:11
hey guys, Chris And I'm Mike and welcome back to No Limits the
00:00:19
Metro a podcast. Now, we're coming coming to you
00:00:22
live again on the MIT report cast this time.
00:00:26
What are you doing this week money?
00:00:28
I'm just ecstatic that we get a full pot in today with a special
00:00:34
guest. Brian of the cam Majors podcast,
00:00:37
who you've heard as a guest before.
00:00:38
Chris, since we did that little teaser last week, while I was
00:00:42
away on vacation and we only scratched the surface of this,
00:00:46
big news with Kyle Mills retirement.
00:00:49
If you will, from the mid trap series, and Don Bentley's
00:00:53
onboarding writing the next Rap Book.
00:00:55
We hope in 2024, I've just wanted to dig Into it.
00:00:59
I wanted to get your thoughts and and hash it out.
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And we got to do that today. So I'm so excited to bring this
00:01:04
episode to the people. Yeah, we couldn't just tease you
00:01:07
with little 10 minute break down.
00:01:10
We had to go. What do we go?
00:01:12
An hour and a half of Brian? Yeah, but we have a lot, we have
00:01:16
a lot. So I wanted to have Brian on.
00:01:19
We've had them on a couple times.
00:01:20
I've been on his podcast that we forgot to tell them to plug it,
00:01:23
so I'll plug it here for him. Go subscribe.
00:01:26
Follow the cam, agers any It On movies, they're fun, fun podcast
00:01:31
to listen to, you know, just want some random and you, you
00:01:36
watch one of the movies that are sometimes.
00:01:37
I even listen to him, when I haven't watched the movie and
00:01:39
the day, they tell me what the movies about.
00:01:41
So and you'll hear Brian's take on the mid trap books and he
00:01:46
brings that same level of thoughtfulness and Analysis to
00:01:49
all the movies they cover and his co-hosts are great gym and
00:01:51
Katie. So check it out.
00:01:53
Cam Majors podcast. Love having Brian on.
00:01:57
Yep. Yep.
00:01:58
But Chris, before we get into it, I've got a limerick here
00:02:03
that I cannot wait to share because this is my tribute to
00:02:07
Kyle and are welcoming to Don. What better way to celebrate
00:02:12
this news? Then with a No Limits, Thriller
00:02:15
podcast, double limerick. Give it to me, baby.
00:02:20
There is a great author named Mills, who wrote some amazing
00:02:25
rap kills its to him, that we toast for, he deserves a great
00:02:30
post. We thank you, Kyle for the
00:02:32
thrills. And now to Don Bentley, we turn
00:02:37
for more rapid Ventures, we yearn the next heir, to Vince
00:02:42
words, he'll not mince the fans Hearts.
00:02:45
We Trust, he will learn While Mike, that that very well be
00:02:52
your best Limerick ever. That was really good.
00:02:55
You got the Cadence down, right? Like, you know, the the rhyming
00:03:00
was amazing like that. And you can use that one again
00:03:03
for for red code, red. But that was, that was perfect.
00:03:10
That was perfect. You got to read that.
00:03:12
You got to read that one to call.
00:03:14
I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't practice.
00:03:16
Yeah. And you could tell it that one.
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Good that you didn't write that one while I'm I'm saying the
00:03:22
intro like the other ones that was not rust 10 seconds ago.
00:03:29
It's funny. Well guys, if you like what
00:03:31
you're hearing and you like what you hear on this episode of No
00:03:34
Limits, The Mitch rap podcast check out our other feeds over
00:03:37
on season 2. No Limits.
00:03:39
The Scott Harvey F podcast, we're covering every breath or
00:03:43
book. What do we do five or six
00:03:45
already in the breath or series? I think we're up to like seven,
00:03:48
bro. Wow.
00:03:50
Yeah. Oh, that's right.
00:03:51
Because we're approaching the halfway mark and a couple of
00:03:53
months chugging along over there.
00:03:57
We also have no limits the Thriller podcast.
00:04:00
We do a smattering of other books.
00:04:02
We've already covered the entire Jack Car Series, all the Chris,
00:04:06
howdy books featuring Hayley chill.
00:04:08
And we're going to be covering the new ones that come out this
00:04:10
year, with only the dead in the James Reese series, we even
00:04:13
covered the terminal list TV show, and we've got a second
00:04:16
season of that to cover down the road.
00:04:18
So, big things over at the Thriller podcast.
00:04:21
What's the next book? We're doing over there, I think
00:04:23
we'll have something ready in the next.
00:04:25
Or two on the No Limits. Ian Thriller pod on the other
00:04:31
pod. Well, that's a Sleeping Bear
00:04:34
O'Connor Sullivan. Yes yes, yes.
00:04:36
And his second is coming out wolftrap, so we'll be doing the
00:04:39
Connor. Sullivan one-two, punch with
00:04:41
sleeping bear and wolf trap over there.
00:04:43
Yep. Yep.
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Yeah. We've, we've actually done nine.
00:04:49
Breath or books nine, man. It's just like, I just fly,
00:04:54
would be, it wouldn't like four or five.
00:04:56
I've never actually done that dude.
00:04:59
We lose track of it all too many books, too many Thrillers.
00:05:02
It's like my Goodreads list. I finish a book.
00:05:04
I'm like, oh, what comes next? I open up Goodreads.
00:05:07
I'm hit with like 6 books. I want to read, can't keep track
00:05:10
of it all. Yeah, no me neither.
00:05:14
All right guys. Well, we're going to now send
00:05:16
you to our brilliant conversation with Brian.
00:05:20
Check it out. Alright, welcome back at what
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time is this on? The pot is like, 45.
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Let me guess we in total. We've had a, you know, four or
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five different interactions with your pardon, our pod, but
00:05:38
welcome back to the Pod No Limits return, guest Brian
00:05:42
Costello. Well, thank you guys.
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Happy to be back. You never know what show you're
00:05:47
on, you have. So you guys have diversify, you
00:05:49
are multimedia Empire now, there we go.
00:05:52
That's what you guys have become if Only.
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It feels good though, to be back on the Mitch rap podcast.
00:06:00
It does feel good. It does.
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Sometimes I'm confused when I'm like, I'm like listen, I'm like,
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wait, did I listen to this episode yet?
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Oh, is this the Mitch Arab one? Or I have to go to a thriller
00:06:09
one? It's, but I am.
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I wish I was back under better circumstances, but I am thrilled
00:06:15
to be back. Well, yeah, there's still a lot
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to celebrate. I mean, there is yes, Don
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Bentley taken over the series huge news Kyle Mills Going on to
00:06:27
pursue some more creative Endeavors.
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We know he's been itching to do that and get back to his fade
00:06:32
character who he wrote years ago and code red.
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You know, we got code red since we last talked to you.
00:06:38
So we got things to celebrate, I guess some?
00:06:40
Yes, some more. Well, I mean you had to you were
00:06:45
tasting grapes. Testing them in the vineyard,
00:06:48
right? For your select series wine that
00:06:50
you guys are going into now. Just not podcasts.
00:06:54
Your own vintage wine and you After that trip, that that that
00:06:58
was that's the sacrifice of being a podcaster.
00:07:01
If it took me away from Napa Valley, Wines and my wife during
00:07:04
my spring break, you know, that that must have been a big
00:07:07
announcement and it was I had to cover.
00:07:09
It had to jump in. Mike is walking around in the
00:07:12
vineyard with a book that sells kill shot on it.
00:07:14
Everybody else's were eating like Nietzsche.
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I, you know, I we got the news and I texted Mike and he's like
00:07:24
what, what happened And I'm like, read your text, read your
00:07:29
you know go on to open your email and then immediately I
00:07:32
thought like, all right, we got it.
00:07:34
We got to have some people on. We got.
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I want to get some more perspective on this.
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Not just me, and my kind obviously, like, to help us
00:07:39
flush flush it down. First thing that popped in my
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head was boom, Brian! Let's have Brian on.
00:07:43
You know, he's not only been a part of the Ambassador series.
00:07:48
You got to interview Kyle. During the first virtual book
00:07:51
tour, correct? Yeah.
00:07:53
And you know, we've connected over these books Different time.
00:07:57
So I thought it would be a good opportunity.
00:07:58
You know one to have you back on the Pod and to you know help us,
00:08:03
I don't know. Like deal with this news.
00:08:05
Like think about this news a little bit better.
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I'm I'm a little I don't know how to feel about it later.
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I guess my first question I really want answered is, does
00:08:14
this mean that we're not going to miss a year?
00:08:18
Like we're getting code red this summer and then Don Don's just
00:08:22
going to have a book next year because he's he has three book
00:08:26
series. Yeah, yes, he does.
00:08:29
So I would assume that's what's going on here.
00:08:33
The really interesting thing is, I was shocked and I should have
00:08:38
known this. I mean, because I remember
00:08:40
Survivor coming out, but it's been that long.
00:08:43
So codered will be his ninth book in the series.
00:08:47
And when I, when you look at that and put it into context, I
00:08:50
think it's like it's a little surprising, you know, because I
00:08:55
don't know. I No number is 9.
00:08:57
I obviously know that there's nine, but it doesn't feel like
00:09:00
there's nine rights almost a decade.
00:09:03
Does it feel like he just took over to you?
00:09:05
He kind of feels like it to me, but he's also feels like he's
00:09:07
been doing it for a long time. Yeah, it was weird in between.
00:09:10
I think, when we talk about the books, I think there's elements
00:09:13
of to me, like there's been different levels of Kyle in the
00:09:18
books, and that might be maybe why that feels different, like,
00:09:22
there's definitely at the beginning where it was so wedded
00:09:25
to Vince, It's and then it's transitioned into really his own
00:09:29
Universe. Obviously influenced by Vince
00:09:33
and I think that's why maybe it feels different to me at points
00:09:36
in particular, with like, the last two books and where he went
00:09:39
with it and where we went with the character and stuff like
00:09:41
that, but it does feel like yesterday.
00:09:43
And what's interesting is I go back and think about that, limbo
00:09:47
that existed from when Vince passed away with the last man,
00:09:52
which was 2012, release. And then The Survivor didn't
00:09:57
come out until 2015. So the one thing I'll say is it
00:10:03
having lived through that is that it is nice to know that
00:10:07
there is a transition in terms of what it is because there was
00:10:10
really a sense when Vince died. I mean, I was on not in the know
00:10:15
in any way that, you know, that really could have been the end
00:10:19
of the Mitch character and you know, no spoilers.
00:10:23
But you read the last man. That's not like Last entry of a
00:10:29
character, right? I mean that was not, there was a
00:10:32
sense where I was at least concerned I'm like, wow, that's
00:10:35
it. That, you know, that's where
00:10:37
that character is going to be. So, I don't know behind the
00:10:41
scenes when this was decided like in Kyle's mine did he know
00:10:45
he was writing this as his final one and that allows Don to come
00:10:50
in and go more smoothly into it or whatever it is.
00:10:53
But I would like to feel that there's maybe going to be more
00:10:56
Hoosier on this end then there was on the Vince and and that my
00:11:00
guess is, probably that there won't be a layoff.
00:11:05
I don't think they've said there won't be but I I can't imagine
00:11:09
that they would be willing for there to be a layoff a very long
00:11:15
it just from a business sense doesn't make a whole lot of
00:11:18
sense. Yeah I think you for that reason
00:11:21
we can expect Don's book in 2024 I think he's going to be excited
00:11:26
to ride. It it I don't know how his
00:11:27
contracts work, but I mean he probably wants to make this the
00:11:32
priority although it is going to take a lot of time and research.
00:11:36
We know Kyle did a lot of heavy lifting to make sure he studied
00:11:40
Vince's work and that his writing was as close to Vince's
00:11:44
craft as it could be in the beginning.
00:11:47
And he thought a lot about the fan base and really wanted to
00:11:49
make sure that we trusted him. And, you know, he took the reins
00:11:55
Seriously from Vince. And so I think that will be
00:11:58
smoother for Don because he is so in tune with my trap right
00:12:02
now. I really loved hearing.
00:12:04
He did a few interviews and a couple other things where he
00:12:06
said on deployments he was reading Rat books, he picked one
00:12:11
up at a little Library when he was in the Army, flying Apache
00:12:14
helicopters. And so I think he's just got
00:12:17
years and Decades of being a fan himself and, and using that to
00:12:21
craft his mat Drake series, which I haven't read it.
00:12:24
Read any of his metric series Ryan?
00:12:27
I have not. So I read, I believe I read one
00:12:32
of the Jack Ryan jr. Ones.
00:12:35
Hmm, I've read the Jack Ryan jr. Once I can't remember the last
00:12:39
one I left off, but he's written some of those.
00:12:41
He's listen, you only hear from many people, good things on
00:12:45
that. So, like, like, I would say up
00:12:48
front on the, the Don Bentley piece.
00:12:50
I'm I'm probably less inclined to talk much about him in the
00:12:54
sense that I think he deserves as much as we gave Kyle like to
00:13:01
talk about like being upset, the Kyle's leaving and stuff like
00:13:04
that. It would then be hypocritical to
00:13:06
say that we that nobody else could write my trap because
00:13:10
that's what people were saying when Kyle was coming in.
00:13:12
So, but he's people. Personally, I've heard only good
00:13:16
things about him and then anecdotally about his writing
00:13:19
people, Are excited about it. So I think that elements
00:13:23
interesting, the thing that's really intriguing to me with him
00:13:27
coming in, is I think his challenge is a little bit
00:13:33
different than Kyle's in that Kyle had to not Replacements,
00:13:38
but he had to take over for Vince and that was such a huge
00:13:45
challenge to not only carry on that character because people
00:13:49
were so emotionally people. I love Vince work were so
00:13:52
emotionally distraught that this was gone and we're not going to
00:13:56
have this character and what's it going to look like?
00:13:57
So he did have to marry that Vince style.
00:14:00
What I think is challenging for Don.
00:14:01
Now, is that he does not only have to balance the elements of
00:14:06
what makes a Vince Flynn, Mitch Rap Book.
00:14:09
He then also has to marry the style that Kyle Rote, right?
00:14:15
And which is there's elements of it that are different.
00:14:19
So it's that piece of it is really intriguing to me because
00:14:23
there's like another layer on top of this now where you look
00:14:26
at Kyle's books and there's things that he's done in these
00:14:29
books. In particular the last few that
00:14:30
have really kind of blown up the world around each and that to me
00:14:35
is going to be really interesting challenge of how he
00:14:38
reconciles that to me. Personally, I don't know what
00:14:41
they're going to do, I would prefer, if they allowed him to
00:14:46
write a sequel to kill shot, because I think that Would be an
00:14:52
easier transition because then you are not trying to marry the
00:14:56
worlds of Vince Flynn. Kyle Mills in Don Bentley right
00:15:02
out of the gate. It's Jasmine.
00:15:04
Yeah. And that, and and he comes from,
00:15:07
I think he's had a lot of practice for this.
00:15:09
He comes from that family of the Clancy verse.
00:15:14
And I'll call it that because so many different people have
00:15:17
written in that world now and there's so many different
00:15:19
things. But the thing I'll say about,
00:15:22
that is so many different people have written those stories.
00:15:25
Now, it's almost like you're painting on top of paint on top
00:15:29
of paint on top of paint or you're laying roof on top of
00:15:31
shingle, on top of shingle, and it's it starts to get jumbled at
00:15:35
points. So I think it would be
00:15:38
interesting to me if we could get a young Mitch.
00:15:40
Because I think that would allowed on the freedom to be
00:15:45
more directly connected to the Vince version of it.
00:15:49
But again, without knowing where codered goes, I don't know.
00:15:51
He, you know, Kyle might be leaving Don in an amazing
00:15:54
position where he could go and do something with Vince.
00:15:58
I don't know, I don't know what they thought is that, that it's
00:16:01
interesting because the tagline for code red.
00:16:03
When we read it, me and Mike were like, interesting, not what
00:16:08
I thought the next novel was going to be about, you know,
00:16:10
like this drug, you know, obviously, Is this character
00:16:14
that guy like really likes from lethal agent?
00:16:18
That is being brought back in, right?
00:16:20
And I don't know, I just it's one of these like, we're going
00:16:27
to rank at the end of this pod, like, all of Kyle's novels.
00:16:29
But, like, you know, these one-offs like, total power,
00:16:32
like, lethal agent. Like, you know, these these
00:16:35
weird takes on like, in using Mitch.
00:16:37
And I think, as opposed to like having like a more structured
00:16:40
Ark. I do agree on your point.
00:16:42
That's this idea that there's so much.
00:16:44
Time between kill shot and transfer.
00:16:47
That, like, Don could operate in and like, you know, you can
00:16:50
almost do whatever the hell you want because, you know, no one,
00:16:55
you obviously have to finish up the as you story.
00:16:56
But once you get past that you you're the World's your oyster,
00:17:00
Greta. Don't forget Greta.
00:17:01
Yeah. And Greta like those are the
00:17:03
only two things you have to, like, accomplish real up.
00:17:05
You know, it's interesting because this was, I mean, years
00:17:08
ago, and I think it was Ryan, Stack years and years and years.
00:17:12
I mean, we're probably talking, Maybe a year or two in the Kyle
00:17:15
writing when I think it started to be obvious.
00:17:18
Like no Kyle can really do this. And remember, I'm like the side
00:17:22
saying to him, I'm like I'm really okay with what Kyle is
00:17:25
doing and I'm really interested in it.
00:17:28
The issue for me is ultimately going to be the day.
00:17:31
If Kyle decides he no longer wants to do it and do I then
00:17:38
because then it starts to turn into like almost a James Bond
00:17:41
situation, right? We're now once you Start having
00:17:44
now you're having multiple different peoples.
00:17:46
The other movie guy? Should I bring in the movie?
00:17:48
Come. Yeah, we're takes on it.
00:17:49
But again, I'll go back to the like, the Jack Ryan novels with
00:17:53
each person removed from Tom Clancy, that connection to the
00:17:59
Tom Clancy, Jack Ryan. You know, it's just not there
00:18:04
for me. And and that's again, why like,
00:18:09
Don who from everybody's account loves Mitch.
00:18:12
I would just like to To see him be able to take an original take
00:18:19
on what his thought of Vince's character was.
00:18:22
Because I think Kyle's been able to do that in a nine book
00:18:26
series, where he paid homage and the core of the characters, the
00:18:29
same. But he's also been allowed to
00:18:31
explore and take Mitch in areas that are very different than
00:18:37
what Kyle did and you know, the question ultimately is then is
00:18:42
like I guess it comes down to Donna because he has to be able
00:18:46
to tell that original story. Like I would hope they would let
00:18:49
him pick the element of the timeline, he would like to to
00:18:54
write it, but I don't know again.
00:18:57
I don't know where what their thought processes, they've been
00:19:00
so guarded to doing that sequel to kill shot and all that stuff.
00:19:04
And I don't know what the, I don't know what the hang-up on
00:19:07
that was. I don't know if originally it
00:19:08
was the movie and they thought they were going younger with him
00:19:11
in the movie and then they didn't want to do that.
00:19:13
I don't Don't I don't know what the holdup on that is.
00:19:16
I think most fans. It can't be anticipating a
00:19:21
negative fan response because I think most fans clamor for it.
00:19:25
So, I don't know what the hang-up is.
00:19:28
And I wonder if anybody's pitched ideas, whether it was
00:19:31
Kyle or others that actually made it in front of, you know,
00:19:34
Emily, Besler or whoever you know, is making the final
00:19:38
decisions. I mean, why they haven't been
00:19:40
greenlit. I'm really curious and so maybe
00:19:42
Don has to pitch Something. And and there's a chance, I
00:19:46
guess the to Me Maybe the hang-up is, if you write that,
00:19:51
do you have to be so good in mimicking Vince's writing or in
00:19:56
doesn't make that it doesn't make sense and maybe Mike even
00:20:01
said like let him do a couple and then maybe going to be
00:20:05
trying to tackle that. Yeah, I don't know.
00:20:07
I'm really interested and again, we're kind of was throwing You
00:20:11
know, darts with in the dark because we don't really know
00:20:15
what:. Red is maybe it sets up a
00:20:19
scenario. That becomes very, Mitch dies.
00:20:23
Well, I would almost guarantee that's not going to happen but,
00:20:26
you know, maybe he cleans. I mean, there's a lot of stuff
00:20:30
coming out of oath of loyalty that is up in the air.
00:20:35
Now, if, if some of that is reconciled in a way that allows
00:20:40
How's Don to springboard off in the type of stories he wants to
00:20:45
tell? Then maybe that is perfect.
00:20:48
Maybe that's ideal. So that was signaled to me.
00:20:52
When Kyle had a very Stark transition from the cooks of
00:20:56
Enemy at the gates to the cooks of oath of loyalty.
00:21:00
They're two different characters.
00:21:01
They're completely separate people.
00:21:03
I guess it's the Wheel of Fortune, right?
00:21:05
One is on the upswing and all they can see is 16 years of
00:21:09
power in the White House. And then I guess that Wheel of
00:21:12
Fortune turns because Kyle decided in the in oath of
00:21:16
loyalty there on the way out, you know, so maybe that's just
00:21:20
how power dynamics go in Washington, which is probably
00:21:23
true that those on the up-and-up or not going to stay there for
00:21:26
long. Some other top dog takes him
00:21:28
down, but when we got rid of the cooks so quickly or
00:21:31
theoretically, we don't know in code red, but it seems with
00:21:35
Anthony hook we find, we ask Kyle, and he's flat-out said
00:21:38
they're not coming back, they're done.
00:21:40
Yeah, he did that. He's right, he did say they were
00:21:42
done so to me, that's signals. Something was in the works.
00:21:46
He didn't want to leave to the next person, his own world that
00:21:51
he built. And so, I feel like there's two
00:21:53
key ways. Code, red will set up Don to be
00:21:56
successful. I think it will allow him to
00:21:59
shape a president. I think we're going to get some
00:22:02
interim. Maybe not even a president
00:22:04
mentioned, who knows here? But if anything, it's just going
00:22:07
to be some interim short-term that the country is clear.
00:22:11
President, a big elections coming and says one thing Don
00:22:13
can do. And the second thing is Irene
00:22:17
has kind of taken a little bit of a backseat, I think oath of
00:22:20
loyalty. She had some really good
00:22:22
conversations with Mitch and she's philosophically wondering
00:22:26
what her life will look like what the next steps of her
00:22:28
career are. And so I think that's a blank
00:22:31
canvas that Kyle's not going to try to shut the door on yet.
00:22:35
He's going to leave open and Don said in one of his first
00:22:37
interviews I want to explore Irene.
00:22:40
So to me, I think those are two really good signals.
00:22:42
The possibility of Don creating his own president and white
00:22:46
house, but also shaping. What Irene's next career moves
00:22:50
are? I'm just hung up because I so I
00:22:53
was doing a little bit of sleuthing and like him and Don
00:22:56
were in a lot of pictures together at Bow.
00:22:58
Chicka, and like, blowing up the Instagram, I know, like, a lot
00:23:03
of, like, I'm, I'm definitely reading into this, but it almost
00:23:06
feels like that was a good opportunity to meet up and
00:23:10
discuss. Us the transition, you know,
00:23:12
like totally like fan casting this.
00:23:15
But maybe I'm crazy. But, would you guys agree that
00:23:18
it would have been easier to do the transition off of oath of
00:23:22
loyalty? Like you could have had a
00:23:24
moment, like, I'm thinking of, like, spymaster breadth or and
00:23:29
when at the end of spy, Master Scott has Scott loses everybody,
00:23:33
you know? And this whole book oath was
00:23:36
about Claudia's Past coming back to haunt her and like at the
00:23:40
end, And Mitch loses everybody and then like you give it to Don
00:23:44
and he's able to do whatever the hell, you know, some you do the
00:23:47
vengeful thing. You just move on, whatever.
00:23:49
I don't know. Like it almost feels easy.
00:23:51
It to me felt like this book would have been an easier
00:23:54
transition to a new author then like having this whole other
00:23:57
book. I mean I guess again caveat we
00:23:59
have we have to read the next book so maybe we are jumping way
00:24:02
too early to conclusions but though on that I want to get
00:24:05
your points Brian and Chris. I've been talking to a few fans
00:24:09
who just through Facebook Our Twitter DM s, we've been talking
00:24:13
about where we want to see Mitch go and I keep bringing back his
00:24:18
age and his family. Now, I know there's a lot, any
00:24:22
the right? There's many Loops authors can
00:24:24
conduct a Kyle thing. I feel like.
00:24:26
But Kyle stamp on the series was Mitch's maturity as a man and
00:24:31
that was a father to Anna, I mean his last two books,
00:24:34
cemented he's essentially and you know, adopted father and
00:24:40
claudian and Anna. I feel like have been so
00:24:42
embedded in his life and I absolutely love it.
00:24:45
I am here for it. Back from the first
00:24:48
conversations, Mitch had with Anna.
00:24:50
He wanted to be a family, man, how he reacts when Anna tells
00:24:54
him about the pregnancy. I mean, that was so important to
00:24:57
Vince's Mitch I'm glad it was still important to Kyle's Mitch.
00:25:01
And now, the question is, some fans have been texting me like,
00:25:04
oh great, maybe we'll kill off Claudius.
00:25:06
Oh, Kyle can just go solo and be a badass killer again, like
00:25:10
unhinged. This is going to be like
00:25:12
Vengeance wrap again like consent to kill and I'm like, I
00:25:16
don't know, it's bit that would be an easy recycling of what
00:25:21
Vince did with consent to kill with Mitch just going ape on
00:25:24
guys and we've been there done that he's a different pitch.
00:25:26
Now by the way you would not be able to tap top no sent to kill.
00:25:30
So it said it would just be a worthless effort.
00:25:36
I think his Kyle's greatest a few things and Chris.
00:25:40
And I might disagree with this because you talked about some of
00:25:43
the one-off things as opposed to large arcs.
00:25:48
One is Kyle's ability to return a sense of humanity to match.
00:25:57
Oh yeah, an argument which had really in the last few Vince
00:26:03
novels much of that had disappeared.
00:26:07
And I'm sure Kyle would have brought that back, you know, I
00:26:10
mean Vince would have brought that back you know, there was an
00:26:12
arc to that but the ability. Now I think it's interesting how
00:26:17
Kyle did it because I do think there's some ways you paint
00:26:21
yourself into the corner with klaudia with you know, and you
00:26:26
know, I mean, they keep it, you get people were saying what
00:26:29
they're saying, you the mic, I wanted the badass mid trap where
00:26:31
he has nobody and he can But one of the reasons I think you can
00:26:36
go into Book, 22 and then Don will write book 23, right?
00:26:43
Is that Kyle change that character?
00:26:47
Because we couldn't be 23 books into the Mitch.
00:26:52
Post consent to kill anymore. It would just be like, it would
00:26:56
be like, taken 17 with Liam Neeson now.
00:26:59
He's going to now, another person he knows has been taken
00:27:02
and he's gonna kill them to like people would is going s cans.
00:27:06
Grandma people would have been chiming, not all people.
00:27:08
Some people would have been fine.
00:27:09
I think a lot of people would have checked out on that.
00:27:12
So Kyle's ability to do that. And and some of the stand alone
00:27:16
Own Adventures to me are really interesting, because I think
00:27:21
there is a more cinematic style to the way Kyle rights than how
00:27:27
Vince wrote very true. And, you know, some of those
00:27:31
almost Standalone stories allow an entry point for people who
00:27:39
don't even necessarily have to be a mitch rap fan and right,
00:27:44
that is slightly different. Now I think that probably A lot
00:27:47
of people who are solely Mitch rap fans and I could see the
00:27:50
push back against some of that stuff, but I think is just a
00:27:54
Storyteller. The geopolitical stuff that Kyle
00:27:57
did to me was intriguing, which is why I'm really fascinated
00:28:03
where he goes now because I think at points, it's a
00:28:09
double-edged sword, he probably could have the cook characters
00:28:13
in a non Mitch rap novel. Probably would have been even
00:28:18
more fascinating because he wouldn't have been tied to the
00:28:24
expectations of a mitch wrap with them.
00:28:30
And it was almost like the the cooks to me were almost like a
00:28:33
Greek tragedy in a mitch wrap, which is like, that's kind of
00:28:38
fascinating to me the to roll that type of stuff into it.
00:28:41
So I loved his storytelling. I do understand why.
00:28:48
If you're just like an early Vince fan at times, it might
00:28:53
have been jarring and I think that's that might be the
00:28:57
difference in terms of when you jumped on the Mitch train, like
00:29:03
if you were somebody who is in it from me, like from when the
00:29:06
first book was published all those books, I'm reading as they
00:29:08
come out. So it's just this, the gradual
00:29:11
progression of Mitch's character.
00:29:13
But if you're somebody, who's bingeing all these books and you
00:29:16
been Inge to let's say Vince's books and then went right into
00:29:19
Kyle's books that might have been a little bit more jarring
00:29:24
to you. I think those are really good
00:29:27
points but a small Counterpoint, I think comes in early Kyle in
00:29:33
the first two or three books with the character of Grisha.
00:29:37
Yeah, I definitely see all of that with the cooks and this new
00:29:41
era that we're in and I almost Pine for That early Kyle style,
00:29:49
where Grisha is such a Vince events villain.
00:29:53
Yeah. Like I think Grisha might be in
00:29:56
addition, to adding Humanity to Mitch and his repertoire
00:29:59
repertoire. I think Grisha might be one of
00:30:03
Kyle's, best Legacy Creations, it is.
00:30:06
You stole my you stole my, you asked us to come up with her,
00:30:09
but what we thought Kyle brought best?
00:30:11
Yes. And yeah, I think it's, it has
00:30:14
to be Grisha, you know? It.
00:30:16
If you're not going to pick like his you know elevation of
00:30:19
Claudia then it's got to be Grisha because that character
00:30:23
and also like to sort of piggyback on your return to
00:30:27
humanity. He kind of does that, not
00:30:30
through Mitch, but also like through Mitch seeing Grisha, you
00:30:33
know. Yes, that's right.
00:30:34
You know, because you have you have this adversary, you know,
00:30:37
Lois gold was like thought he was as good as match, but Grisha
00:30:42
was was as good as men. Yes.
00:30:44
You know, like yep. I'm sure there's people out
00:30:47
there that don't want to admit that but Grisha, was he bested
00:30:50
Scott? He can then see you see this,
00:30:54
you know, you see the master, you know, you see them interact
00:30:59
and Mitch get bested and then you go through the Arc of them
00:31:04
having to work together. Yep.
00:31:07
For Mitch's sake and then you have the culmination to have to
00:31:11
work together for gracious sake and I'm like just though that
00:31:15
that three book Arc. You know, even though the code
00:31:17
red is probably a week or not, go dried red war is the weakest
00:31:20
of the three. I thought that probably was
00:31:23
Kyle's best Arc, you know, it's storytelling.
00:31:27
I don't think that's best. Kyle's best book in that in
00:31:30
those three but I think like the overall arching story and like
00:31:34
what he added to the series I think it's that Russian Series.
00:31:38
Yeah, I agree. Completely.
00:31:39
It's so quintessential Kyle and what he changed about Vince and
00:31:44
what he brought to the series was he did It in those three
00:31:46
books order to kill, I guess Survivor ordered to kill enemy
00:31:50
and red War. I'll Greek not my favorite of
00:31:52
his books necessarily but the best may be long-term story that
00:31:57
he told and I thought you were going to bring up Grisha is a
00:32:01
great parallel to Mitch because he's the Russian kind of robot,
00:32:06
super soldier when they talked about how he was trained to be
00:32:09
the Super athlete, super killer, and you can kind of align that
00:32:14
with American Assassin. And so while we're set up to
00:32:18
think he's evil, we don't like him.
00:32:20
He's a villain. Right?
00:32:21
Mitch has to kill him. Mitch actually realizes Grisha
00:32:25
is himself in the Russian context and because of that,
00:32:29
they have to see the humanity in each other and they help each
00:32:33
other. So that was a brilliant move by
00:32:34
Kyle where most people would be like, why would Mitch, let one
00:32:37
of his adversaries into his inner circle.
00:32:40
But when Kyle did it, it made sense because they're the same
00:32:43
person, right? And then it happened again with
00:32:45
Grisha and his Oh friend out in, is it?
00:32:48
Costa Rica whatever tropical place there at Mitch, definitely
00:32:52
gets that. He's got a life of his own as
00:32:56
well. The same way he now has Anna and
00:32:58
Claudia to take care of. I love the parallel between
00:33:02
Mitch and Grisha. So I'm going to say Claudia Nana
00:33:07
Grisha Azeroth and just the humanity that Kyle brought to
00:33:11
Mitch, are the three key Stones The Legacy that he left on the
00:33:15
series. Is there anything else we're
00:33:17
missing? Those are the three big ones.
00:33:18
Yeah, I think there's big. I just think thematically he
00:33:21
brought really Interesting ideas.
00:33:27
And I also think he was willing to make Potentially really
00:33:35
difficult decisions like like the world, he sets up at the end
00:33:41
of total power, let's say, or at the end of Enemy at the gates,
00:33:49
that's not like that is globally.
00:33:53
Changing a universe. You're writing it, right?
00:33:55
That's just not like Mitch saved the world from a terrorist
00:34:00
attack and we can, you know, turn the Page in the next book
00:34:04
can be Mitch. Saving the world from another
00:34:06
terrorist attack. You know, what he did with Mike
00:34:10
Nash, An enemy of the you went there.
00:34:13
He went there, but that to me is like, That is that's really
00:34:19
fascinating and that he was not afraid to take really big
00:34:24
swings. Definitely not.
00:34:26
And like that to me. Those are the books that of his,
00:34:32
I put more towards the Forefront for that.
00:34:35
Exact reason that he was not willing to just sit with the IP
00:34:41
and mimic it. He was he was willing to bring a
00:34:47
Voice to this character because again, otherwise, what's the
00:34:51
point of him writing it? Yeah.
00:34:52
See. To, I mean, it's just like, go
00:34:55
get, go get that a, I bought whatever it is.
00:34:57
There's a GPT to write them again.
00:34:59
Here's here's all the Vince bucks.
00:35:01
Let's scan them into the AI. And then that could like, if
00:35:05
he's not bringing those things, so his ability to do that.
00:35:09
And I think at times utilize characters like Mike Nash
00:35:12
character, let's be honest. That character became Sorry,
00:35:16
Mike Nash fans really became Irrelevant in this, this series
00:35:21
to be able to find a way to make that character relevant again,
00:35:30
and with the emotional impact of that last segment.
00:35:35
So, like one of the things I'll take away always, is that scene
00:35:37
of him like struggling up that mount like that's a sequence.
00:35:42
And again, I think of things cinematically as I I read I
00:35:46
visualize it that is that was just such an impressive writing
00:35:51
to me and then to come back with the opening of oath of loyalty
00:35:57
and show. I don't like that to me was
00:35:59
really intriguing and I love that he was, you know, brave
00:36:03
enough to do that because the simple thing would have been
00:36:06
who's the terrorist of the week. It's you know, it's 24 season
00:36:11
14. Here we go.
00:36:13
Jack Bauer and Mitch rap or the Same guy and we're just going to
00:36:16
do the same. Now, we're not attacking the
00:36:19
White House. We're attacking the Louvre, get
00:36:22
in there Mitch and he didn't do that.
00:36:24
And I know some people dislike that they didn't want that.
00:36:28
They wanted. You know, terrorist of the week
00:36:31
they wanted. Yeah.
00:36:32
And they want. Yeah.
00:36:33
We're saying he didn't do you. And so for me that's what I
00:36:36
connected to with him that I kind of appreciate.
00:36:39
But I'm interested now to see what Don's take will be like.
00:36:45
What Avenue does he want to go with that character to make it
00:36:49
his own? And I'll say, you know, just to
00:36:52
your point about the Mike Nash, character and like, I'm a mic
00:36:55
Nash fan in terms of like I liked him when he first came on.
00:36:58
And when I first read enemy, I was like shocked because I had a
00:37:03
connection to that character, but you know it took me a mic
00:37:08
like a little bit of time going back and forth.
00:37:10
We actually posted it like a little follow-up episode.
00:37:13
Where we'd like broke down And this just goes into like Kyle
00:37:17
did his research. And new, the Vince, and Mitch
00:37:23
story in and out that you could actually go through.
00:37:26
And we actually brought this up on our next interview with with
00:37:29
Kyle, or like talking about the book how we went and we picked
00:37:32
out scenes that Vince had laid out with Mike showing that he
00:37:37
is, the kind of person that ultimately could make that turn
00:37:40
that Kyle chose him to do and it makes sense.
00:37:44
But again, like if you're not like, you know, it's kind of
00:37:47
like that thing where if you're reading them year-to-year, you
00:37:49
know, you might Might you might forget if you're doing like us
00:37:52
when we were we'd already read them.
00:37:53
But now we're going back or reading them back to back to
00:37:55
back and like those things like stand out on the rereads.
00:37:59
And I think now we told people in that pod if you had a problem
00:38:03
with enemy go back, read these books with Mike in them and you
00:38:09
will understand his choice. And that just shows how Kyle
00:38:12
understood the character and was able to elevate him, you know,
00:38:18
like you said from A nonsense character, you know, after once
00:38:24
been said past to now bringing giving him more importance,
00:38:28
making them interesting. You know in doing something bold
00:38:31
and brave like at that end scene is Brave.
00:38:35
So that's extraordinarily bold, I was my jaw dropped.
00:38:41
When I first read enemy at the gates and the ending because how
00:38:44
many people were thinking, Mike Nash is going to be president or
00:38:48
Mike Nash is going to take over for Irene and it was just so
00:38:55
smart to find these kernels of actually Irene scolds, Mike
00:39:00
Nash. You know, in the past Irene has
00:39:03
sidelined him and he wouldn't get his hands dirty.
00:39:05
He and they had to call in Scott Coleman to do the things that
00:39:08
Mike wouldn't do. But then, again Irene did ask
00:39:11
Mitch, would you be okay taking orders from Mike Nash?
00:39:14
So she was conflicted about his future.
00:39:17
So when something conflicts Irene, you know, she's going
00:39:21
back and forth on whom I can ashes.
00:39:23
Can he be trusted? You better betcha.
00:39:26
We should be nervous about Mike Nash.
00:39:28
So like if Irene is that way for Kyle to then replicate that
00:39:34
sense, and that feeling That uncertainty and unease in the
00:39:37
audience, I think is just Next Level.
00:39:39
I think it's like layers upon layers of psychological meaning
00:39:44
there and I don't know if a lesser author could pull that
00:39:47
off. I think you make Mike, Nash
00:39:49
president? You know, you all of a sudden
00:39:51
now have a new cheerleader. To let Mitch do whatever Mitch
00:39:54
wants to do, you know, up above him in the in politics and it
00:39:58
was an easy way out. And like, we've been saying like
00:40:00
Brian, you said Kyle never once took the easy way out, he never
00:40:04
took the easy way. Way out.
00:40:06
And the other thing is, I try to wrap my brain.
00:40:08
I'm not sure anybody has been able to come close to pull off
00:40:15
what he did in terms of having to take over a literary
00:40:20
character as popular. I mean, they've done it with
00:40:26
Jason Bourne. They've done it with Jack Ryan
00:40:29
to a degree. They've done it a little bit
00:40:31
with Dirk Pitt you know, Patterson novels.
00:40:35
Has all the all these other voices writing it.
00:40:39
I don't think any of them were as go anywhere near as good as
00:40:42
Kyle and that's no offense. Again, I think there's some
00:40:44
great people like grainy wrote some of the stuff with Clancy
00:40:46
and all that type of stuff, but Kyle's ability to kind of
00:40:50
balance the idea of The character isn't is everything,
00:40:57
right? Like people want to read them a
00:40:58
trap novel because it's my trap, but you're not seeing those
00:41:02
other ones. Hit number two, on the New York
00:41:04
Times bestseller. They're not and quite honestly
00:41:06
and this is not to be offencive they're just not as good that
00:41:11
the like some of these other IPS that are being you know
00:41:16
constantly written and pushed out there.
00:41:20
They're no longer as relevant there.
00:41:22
No. You see it?
00:41:24
And it's out. And you're just like, yeah,
00:41:25
maybe I'll get that from the library now.
00:41:27
And that's and now that was never.
00:41:28
The case with Kyle was never, look at the Survivor, you nailed
00:41:32
it. Like, I can't believe how good a
00:41:35
book that was for the first one. I mean, it didn't take time to
00:41:39
ease into it. He did the heavy lifting.
00:41:41
He he killed Stan Hurley like just that's move by the way,
00:41:47
that's another great. That's a that's an all-time, I
00:41:50
think that's when I completely bought in. 100% to him.
00:41:56
Was that sequence in Germany? All the way back at you.
00:41:58
Just read it in your like okay, because the apprehension and I
00:42:03
read the book early because I you know, I was part of that
00:42:07
first. The Trap ambassador program and
00:42:11
we got, I'm trying to can't remember when the book itself
00:42:14
came out, I'd have to look up when it is.
00:42:15
But I got that book in July of the year.
00:42:20
It was released and that had been quite again.
00:42:23
Vince, He died several years before so that was like there
00:42:26
was this anticipation of what it is and I just remember like
00:42:30
tearing through it and reading it was like Fourth of July
00:42:33
weekend and I'm and I'm just reading it and quite early and I
00:42:36
was like, okay, like this, this is going to work.
00:42:42
Now for me, I have to be honest when we do our rankings the next
00:42:46
couple of books, after the ones you guys like order to kill and
00:42:54
I was only Enemy of the State, they're closer to the bottom
00:42:58
from me of those but that's because again I like when It, I
00:43:05
feel like Kyle started to feel comfortable in terms of really
00:43:09
generating the storyline. The other books are very good
00:43:11
but I feel like they're more closely aligned to just the old
00:43:14
Vince novels which is Grecian stuff, which is awesome.
00:43:17
But I do think it led to a nice kind of gradual transition of
00:43:21
him, you know, always honoring Vince but also expanding his
00:43:25
storytelling, you know, the further he got into it, should
00:43:29
we get into our rankings my career you have something else?
00:43:31
Yeah no let's do that but but Brian on Your point, I remember
00:43:34
specifically on the Pod when we did order to Kill An Enemy of
00:43:39
the State half of those books were some of our favorite
00:43:43
writing in the entire series. It was like I think order to
00:43:46
kill the first half. We were like, no way.
00:43:50
This is over-the-top good. And then the second half fell a
00:43:53
little flat and I remember being like, okay, we can do this, you
00:43:58
know, Kyle's going to sustain this series and what he did in
00:44:01
the first half of that book. And I think it was Actually the
00:44:04
second half of order to kill and the first half of Enemy of the
00:44:07
State, I would have put in the top five of all Mitch wrap
00:44:10
books. And unfortunately, I remember on
00:44:13
the Pod, Chris, a bunch of times.
00:44:14
We said it's just doesn't have that complete storytelling yet
00:44:18
chapter 12, chapter 60, 70 80 in the end.
00:44:21
So those also slip down my list a little bit which I guess we
00:44:25
should get into but I do remember even if they are lower
00:44:28
on my list of rankings, I remember there were certain
00:44:32
things in that book that we I said we're bomb.
00:44:34
Oh yeah. They're so he's always out.
00:44:36
He didn't have there wasn't a single one.
00:44:38
He wrote where I was like, I don't know if I want to pick up
00:44:44
the next one, didn't come close to any of that.
00:44:56
Before we sign off. Can I give a few honorable
00:44:59
mentions that didn't come up in our conversation with Brian?
00:45:03
But I think are definitely worthy of note for what Kyle
00:45:06
Miller has done to the series one of them.
00:45:11
Fred fucking Mason, baby fret base.
00:45:15
It's so funny here, you always keeps a good character.
00:45:19
Now, what else, what else on Legend you got for me?
00:45:22
So it's less than honorable mention more question, I guess I
00:45:26
should say. Marcus Du Monde.
00:45:30
I really liked him an enemy at the gates.
00:45:32
I think a little bit, was it total power?
00:45:36
Marcus Du Monde going to be in code red.
00:45:38
Yeah, I don't know. Is we kind of brought that up
00:45:41
during our last interview? And I guess it's just a
00:45:44
character that Kyle didn't like jibe with like that.
00:45:46
Yeah, that Vince did, you know, Vince needed to have Marcus in
00:45:49
every novel. Yeah.
00:45:52
I don't know if that's because Marcus is based off of someone
00:45:55
that Devin's new, you know, so Scott.
00:46:00
We got to have Scott. Right.
00:46:01
You know, like that has got. That's and I'm, we also didn't
00:46:04
mention this with Brian, but I'm really intrigued to see what,
00:46:08
you know, Don not only with Kyrene but with Scott because I
00:46:11
really like the growth. I like Scott in the original
00:46:14
novels. But, you know, Kyle added that
00:46:17
glint in the eye of Scott, a little bit, you know, a little
00:46:19
like, yeah, little Beautiful smile, blond hair blue eyes.
00:46:26
But at the same time, you'll, he looks at you and he's going to
00:46:28
fucking kill you, you know? Like And also the Loyalty, The
00:46:34
loyalty of Scott. So oh yeah, really really
00:46:37
intrigued. But Scott through thick and
00:46:39
thin. Yeah, I guess the last honorable
00:46:41
mention Joe maslach flipping off the Drone.
00:46:45
When he's flipping hamburgers, they got do a rest of just
00:46:49
absolutely love that moment. An oath of loyalty, like I'll
00:46:52
drop some gems, like the threesome comment with Donatella
00:46:56
Mitch and Claudia maslov flipping off the, the Drone.
00:47:00
I just Oh my God. There's just and then he eats
00:47:03
the burger. There he shoves down two of
00:47:06
them. Right?
00:47:08
I guess to follow up on your comment is like how much comedy
00:47:12
is done? Going to keep in the series
00:47:13
because that's that's in Kyle's even said that's a big
00:47:16
difference. That what he's had from what Ben
00:47:18
said, you know, Vince? Right.
00:47:19
Very minimal comedy. Like Mitch had like a couple
00:47:23
mild singers but since then Kyle is added, you know, he's a
00:47:27
freaking Rodney Dangerfield measurement rap, you know, so
00:47:30
yeah, not not that much, but still, there's definitely humor
00:47:34
Within These last Novels, it'll be interesting to see what
00:47:37
continues. What doesn't, mmm.
00:47:39
The only thing I can say is, we'll have to see.
00:47:41
So, we'll have to see. So last thing, I just want to
00:47:45
plant a seed last last, last final thing and no need to
00:47:49
respond to this. I just want to plant the seed in
00:47:51
in hopes that somebody picks up on it.
00:47:54
I hope this seed can get sewn a little bit here.
00:47:58
And again, this might be me on an island.
00:48:00
I might be coming out of left field.
00:48:02
I'm just gonna throw two names at you and maybe don, if you
00:48:05
ever hear this, who knows, feel free to tell me I'm an idiot.
00:48:08
Feel free to run with it. We drop two names.
00:48:12
Tommy, Kennedy, Rory Nash. I'm just going to leave it at
00:48:17
that. It's going to leave it at that.
00:48:19
Hmm. Intriguing.
00:48:22
There's just two names largely forgotten kind in the annals of
00:48:25
Vince history now but they're out there somewhere, these young
00:48:29
men, you know, they've got to be in high school, maybe College.
00:48:33
I'll probably even college or Beyond.
00:48:35
So I just wonder what they're up to a little universe expanding
00:48:39
is something I wonder about here.
00:48:42
We'll say yep. Yep. we have to thank our
00:48:46
patrons are special operator, Sherry FR, special agents
00:48:50
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00:48:55
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00:49:02
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00:49:04
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00:49:08
And as always, just let Mitch be Mitch.