Chris and mike break down Dark Rising - book #4 in the Shepherd Series by Andrews and Wilson.
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00:00:19
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
00:00:23
And welcome back to this week's No Limits the Thriller podcast.
00:00:28
How you doing today, Mike? I am doing great.
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One more day of school left before we're out for summer and
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I'm going to have a lot of reading to do this summer.
00:00:38
Chris, I'm sure you will as well.
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Oh my God, we were just going up before the meeting.
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We were going over our reading list for July, and I haven't
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read an actual book in a long time.
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I'm used to listening to these books and I got to actually
00:00:51
read. But at least it's authors I
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love. I'm excited.
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So we got a new Brad Thor novel coming out.
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More importantly, I mean I shouldn't say more importantly,
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but more intriguingly, we got a new Kyle Mills book coming out
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that's not a mid trap book. Fade in.
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I believe you just booked back-to-back interviews.
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We haven't interviewed a person on the spot in a long time.
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Good to get back to the interviews.
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Yeah, we got Kyle and Brad lined up coming soon to you guys with
00:01:24
their new releases. So yeah, a lot of reading, a lot
00:01:26
of interviewing, a lot of podcasting on the docket.
00:01:29
Yes, so we you know, we're just keeping it rolling here.
00:01:34
We got it. We got a we had to push back SA
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Kazi's book. Not that we're not intrigued for
00:01:38
it, but just things pop up. We're going to get to it.
00:01:42
We have a jam packed July jam packed really summer for you.
00:01:48
But before we get to that, we have to finish this series, Dark
00:01:55
Rising. And I was disappointed.
00:02:01
I'm just going to come out and say it.
00:02:02
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:04
Do you think you're just darked out doing all four books back
00:02:06
to? Back I wonder, I wonder.
00:02:08
I wonder if that plays a role. Sometimes I wonder that but like
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I was so high coming off of books 1 and 2.
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Yes. And then, you know, last book we
00:02:18
we had our critiques. We weren't like super low on it,
00:02:21
but we definitely was the lowest of the three.
00:02:25
But I guess I was ready for this refresh and knowing that we were
00:02:29
going to get that we did. We did get that.
00:02:31
It's very interesting to see how they took this book.
00:02:33
There's a lot of things I want to talk to you about.
00:02:38
You know, the fact that our our heroes are maybe corrupted.
00:02:43
That was super intriguing. Something we we have not
00:02:46
explored yet to date. For sure.
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The the big bad, like we there was a this this book had a a
00:02:55
dark right? Like the the the titular event
00:03:00
happens and it's a crazy ass scene but everyone dies.
00:03:07
Yeah, we needed the post Victor era.
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We needed something to usher in what happens next.
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And the idea of a dark rising, it is just a perfect vehicle for
00:03:17
that, a ceremony, a ritual by which the next dark Prince is
00:03:22
appointed. Right?
00:03:24
But I think it was a cool like most things in this book, I was
00:03:27
a very happy with the concepts and the ideas.
00:03:31
Something in the execution falls off.
00:03:34
Something in the buy into all of it falls off.
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It like should work in principle, but just didn't sit
00:03:40
right as I was reading it. So you have the Dark Rising,
00:03:42
like who's going to be the next Victor?
00:03:44
I just don't buy into this cast of villains.
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And we almost get too wide of a cast of villains because the
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next Victor appointed in the Dark Rising is not even a
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character in the stories. He's in like 2 chapters.
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It's a random guy who is actually going to be manipulated
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and used by Mambo Italia who is supposed to be the big bad but
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not really sure how I feel about her.
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And then it's like she has this sidekick Calypso, who actually
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is the big bad of. Of this book the.
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Plot of the book of the Shepherds, right, She's the one
00:04:18
actually interacting with the shepherds.
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So it's like we have a big bad and a sidekick, but the sidekick
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is actually the big bad to the characters we like and we want
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to see she has her own weird qualities.
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So I think we're going to have to dig into these villains,
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which is a strange thing. But on the flip side are good
00:04:34
guys. We're seeing kind of chinks in
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the armor. We're seeing some cracks,
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whether it's Ben Morvant, we're learning his powers seem to be
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receding, which maybe it it either is naturally happening as
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he's he ages. Or like a watcher.
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Like like what happens with the Watchers.
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It's almost a miracle that he still has these powers.
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Or is it his own doubt? You know, his own self
00:04:56
transformation going down a slippery slope in a dark path
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that that's the reason he's losing the powers?
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Is it chicken or the egg? And there's a little subtle hint
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of Sarah Beth not outright lying, but she says to her mom,
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she promises not to project back into the house for that final
00:05:12
battle. And she's crossing her fingers.
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So she promises to her mom. She's crossing her fingers
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behind her back. She doesn't really mean to honor
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that promise. Our heroes are cracking like
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they're not the perfect angels they've almost been set up to
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be. There's a there's a couple
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little signals that Ben and Sarah Beth, two of the most pure
00:05:31
characters, might have some foibles and then some, you know,
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some issues in their mind behind the scenes and.
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Even David. Even David, David is getting a
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little jealous that's coming through.
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I think that's a very interesting take to actually
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show the shepherds have some cracks.
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Yeah, no. A lot of things I want to dive
00:05:53
into. I think ultimately, you know,
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Jed is our rock, our center. We are with him majority of this
00:06:02
novel and while I did like, you know, him sort of this is funny
00:06:09
like he has to go on a vacation but he he really can't.
00:06:12
He can't. Yeah, he can't take a vacation.
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I'm. Sure, a lot of operators and
00:06:15
service members can identify. Law enforcement that that kind
00:06:18
of stuff was was interesting I I I kind of bought into this idea
00:06:22
of him. You know getting with GAIL.
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Maybe it was a little fast, but like, you know, obviously
00:06:28
they're they're quick friends. They she was established in the
00:06:31
last book. Going forward, it makes sense
00:06:34
that she would continue to be the liaison.
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And, you know, there's some sort of tension between them.
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You know, now that we've gotten rid of Maria, you know, we need
00:06:42
to bring in a love interest for Jed.
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I think, and maybe you can disagree.
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I think the biggest downfall of this book is not having the
00:06:56
team. Yeah, Joshua Bravo.
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Joshua Bravo, present until the umpteenth hour.
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The final action. Scene and even then we barely
00:07:09
get them. I mean, the, The thing is
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though, I know that that will have a scene.
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They come in huge, they come in hot and heavy for one final
00:07:18
battle. But we, I, I want to explore
00:07:20
their characters. I want to explore their
00:07:22
interactions, their dynamics, and if they just operate
00:07:25
together and don't do anything else except for downrange.
00:07:29
We're not getting their full breath, their full characters.
00:07:32
And that was a deliberate choice.
00:07:33
I remember early on in the book the vacation stuff was being
00:07:36
talked about and Ben was telling Jed, look, you know, Nisha's
00:07:40
here, Bex is here, everyone's gone, you have to go to forced
00:07:43
vacation. I was like, I knew that he was
00:07:45
setting it up like the the we're not going to be with the team.
00:07:48
It was very intentional. Yeah, I think that's what took
00:07:52
me out of the book. I love their dynamic and we're
00:07:55
building towards this, this crescendo with this last book.
00:07:59
And then you immediately like, strip that away.
00:08:02
I don't know. And and even when we did get
00:08:04
them, we didn't get the full extent of them.
00:08:07
Like we didn't get the full Eli. No, Eli's got to.
00:08:11
He's got to have an arc here soon like he really does.
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We saved Johnny in the last book just to kill him just to kill
00:08:17
him in this book. Should have been done last book
00:08:19
you could have got you could. That was a we we talked about
00:08:22
that. That was a great like arc for
00:08:25
him to die in the last book if. He fell in the Battle of Saint
00:08:28
George's. That would have meant so much.
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It would have I feel like it would have could have brought
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the team together and then it would have given space in this
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book for an Eli, a Jung, because Jung has his moment.
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I thought the end. The only one out of the group is
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Jung. Jung has his moment with that
00:08:43
fight at the end. I love it.
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What? It's almost like an Avengers
00:08:48
scene, taking down pianos when the the three of them corner him
00:08:51
or triangulate him, and it's like Ben's here getting off his
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feet after being choked out. Jed's over here with his knife
00:08:58
fully out. Yoon is just thrown to the wall,
00:09:01
but he's back in the game. And now they corner the one who
00:09:05
just became the new victor, and they're just like stabbing him
00:09:09
over and over in this massive battle.
00:09:12
I thought that was such a cool scene, but that and the cemetery
00:09:16
scene, if you did not have those two set action pieces or the
00:09:20
cemetery is more of a suspense scene, but.
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Where Jed is buried alive. When it where he's buried alive.
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I didn't like this book at all. Outside of those things, we also
00:09:29
have to talk about the voodoo of it all.
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Yeah, that, that was very interesting to me.
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Yeah, to bring that in, said it in Haiti to Haiti, you know,
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have this, you know, sort of, you know, sort of outside a
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religion type thing. I don't know, I feel like this
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is something that Andrews and Wilson, you know, they read
00:09:52
about and then they're like, oh, that's a cool idea, we should
00:09:54
incorporate it into the book. But yet for me it didn't didn't
00:09:59
quite fully fit. Yeah.
00:10:03
I I will reserve judgement on Mambo Italia until we see her
00:10:09
art play out. 'Cause she got away, 'cause she
00:10:11
got away. You know, like, I mean the the
00:10:14
whole Dark Watchers thing is very intriguing to me.
00:10:17
Awesome. I wanted them to play up.
00:10:19
I was expecting that to play a bigger role.
00:10:22
Same in this book and it did not.
00:10:24
And they did say though, like it's an experimental program.
00:10:28
So I, I think there's more to be done with the fact that they
00:10:30
took Sonny as one of the most powerful.
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She's almost like the Sarah Beth who the dark side has and wants
00:10:35
to corrupt. So I really like I said, I love
00:10:40
the concepts. I don't know if they're executed
00:10:41
well. I really like the school.
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I, I, I think a school where you've kidnapped kids, you're
00:10:48
basically tricking them into thinking you're their savior by
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giving them nice things out. You would never have a room like
00:10:55
this. You would never eat like this.
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There's all this ice cream and Sonny's friend Amadei, I think
00:11:01
it was the boy he he falling to their into their trap shows how
00:11:07
alluring this is and how easy it will be for them to attract
00:11:11
other children to their cause. Here's the problem.
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I love the idea of dark watchers and a dark school to foil St.
00:11:19
George's and to interrupt the Shepherd's operations.
00:11:22
But what I did not like was the zombie bullshit.
00:11:25
So like you didn't need to add that element when just having
00:11:30
the school manipulating these kids through materialism was
00:11:34
such a a really neat idea and cool concept.
00:11:37
I don't know if the zombie thing really one added anything 2 Made
00:11:43
sense to me at all. It just was an eye roll moment.
00:11:46
And three, I think there were would be other creative ways you
00:11:49
can get the kids to do your bidding for the dark side
00:11:53
without having to do some esoteric zombie nonsense.
00:11:55
Now they were trying to match it with the voodoo stuff.
00:11:58
I did that. Because of the setting and you
00:12:00
know, like, I get that to me almost the the way the zombie
00:12:04
stuff was reading to me is that it's all like a it's all a ruse.
00:12:09
You know, like you, you purposely put someone under, you
00:12:13
bury them alive, then you bring them back from the dead and you
00:12:15
sort of like lie to them and through this post traumatic
00:12:20
stress disorder of them being buried alive and Ding that they
00:12:23
died. They're brainwashed.
00:12:24
They're brainwashed into being your servant.
00:12:28
So like that's how I thought it. And like, wait, are so are these
00:12:32
three kids? Are they like that or is, is
00:12:34
voodoo actually real? Like it wasn't clearly
00:12:37
explained. Like those 3 little stooges that
00:12:41
you know, are are are pour the tea and you know that sure, if
00:12:45
you were to do this visually in like a movie setting like that
00:12:47
would be super creepy and you know, a key element, but it that
00:12:51
that part of it just wasn't explained well enough and not
00:12:57
not needed, you know, like they. Have them just be possessed.
00:13:01
Yeah, they have. Demon spirits in them the same
00:13:04
way Victor and all the Dark Ones have these.
00:13:06
You already you already have just just asking a lot of me to
00:13:09
like buy into that. And then like you want to add in
00:13:13
this other thing. You know, I've already I've
00:13:15
already sort of like I've committed to that one.
00:13:17
I've committed to this series like so just adding something
00:13:21
else on top of it just to add it like is is not necessary.
00:13:24
Imagine if instead of the zombie stuff with whatever the
00:13:26
concoction was that they make them breathe and knock them out
00:13:29
and all and then bury them and resurrect them.
00:13:32
Just honestly be like, we're taking the spirits of demon
00:13:36
children like dead children. Like maybe from the school or
00:13:39
otherwise. And the same way Victor and the
00:13:42
other dark ones have that burning glow in their eyes,
00:13:45
they're doing that with children and they can control the
00:13:48
children. And that to me is even more
00:13:50
scary. And it's in universe, it's
00:13:52
established, it's not yet another thing you have to add.
00:13:56
Yeah, and it what I thought was super intriguing is right.
00:13:58
They they even mentioned that they're able to Co opt these
00:14:01
kids and use their powers for like a very short time.
00:14:03
But it's almost because they're a gift from God.
00:14:05
Like God quickly, like realizes that, you know, these powers
00:14:10
that get and then he has they, they fade super quickly.
00:14:12
So it's like it's a time bomb. And I, I like the fact that
00:14:15
they're right. Like you, you have, you could
00:14:16
have had like these, I don't know, maybe not most powerful
00:14:20
demons, but like lesser demons. They're the ones that go into
00:14:22
these kids. They're able to take over their
00:14:24
powers, but they can only hold on to it, you know, only mask
00:14:28
their intentions from God, the higher power who gives them
00:14:32
these gifts for so long. And then as soon as that gone
00:14:35
and then they have to leave the body and the the kid is no
00:14:38
longer useful. I knew as soon as they were
00:14:40
taking those kids on the bus and like Sonny was like able to like
00:14:45
communicate. You know, you immediately got
00:14:47
like, like someone's figured out how to how to make dark watchers
00:14:52
and that that's a great concept. I, I like you said, we keep
00:14:55
coming back to it. A lot of good points, a lot of
00:14:59
good ideas in this novel. Just I think the execution just
00:15:03
didn't didn't do. It we're already being asked
00:15:08
like you said to take so many leaps and the faithful audience
00:15:12
and you heard us love on the first three books or first 2.4
00:15:17
books yeah 2 1/2 books love on it.
00:15:21
We've already committed. Don't try to now extend us into
00:15:24
believing all these other things that we have to buy into.
00:15:28
Let's and just to put another point on the voodoo, they, they
00:15:32
at least did the due diligence of like explaining it because
00:15:36
there is a country there. There is a compelling factor of
00:15:40
these actually are somewhat rooted in Christian tradition.
00:15:44
It's just that due to human fallibility of like literally
00:15:49
transporting people out of their homeland homeland and kidnapping
00:15:52
them into slavery for generations, those traditions
00:15:55
were ripped from people. Well, how are the people going
00:15:57
to continue their traditions, you know, while enslaved, while
00:16:02
you have to combine it with the Christian tradition?
00:16:04
So you get this blend of cultures that was almost forced.
00:16:07
And so there's a lot of good in the traditions because it is
00:16:10
Christian based. But then there's a lot and it
00:16:12
is, you know, based on true African beliefs.
00:16:15
But then you get the weirdness because of it has to be kept
00:16:18
underground. It has to be hidden.
00:16:21
And so like, there's the good and the bad in it.
00:16:23
Like I think voodoo became a term in the West that basically
00:16:26
means evil magic spells. And it's not that at all.
00:16:30
It's actually the face of a people trying to combine African
00:16:33
heritage with like Christian Saints, for example, a lot of
00:16:36
their little statues figurines are the Christian Saints, but
00:16:39
they, they had this mystical element to them based on animism
00:16:43
and other roots. And I think they, they broke
00:16:46
that down and then they also got into like the differences, you
00:16:51
know, like Cuban Santeria is somewhat related and Condomble
00:16:55
in Brazil is somewhat related. And there's a different version,
00:16:58
the Dominican one and then the Haitian 1.
00:17:01
So they, there's no doubt they did their research, they had the
00:17:03
historical facts, but just don't know if that was where I wanted
00:17:08
to see the whole idea of shepherds and dark ones go.
00:17:12
Although I guess that's what Mambo Italia is doing, is she is
00:17:15
using those voodoo skills to almost infiltrate and take over
00:17:20
the dark ones. Sure, because she didn't want to
00:17:22
just play along with how the dark ones have always done
00:17:24
business. She wanted to do it her way.
00:17:27
And because she's a female, she she can't play the normal.
00:17:31
She can't do it the normal way. But in voodoo traditions, there
00:17:34
are priestesses. That's the.
00:17:35
Model exactly. Exactly.
00:17:36
It's just, it's no doubt they did their research, it just
00:17:38
didn't work for me. Yeah, I, I don't know, it's all
00:17:44
right. So if that didn't work for us,
00:17:49
let let's let's try to focus on some things that did work for us
00:17:53
and then then we can get into the scorecard because there are
00:17:56
some things that I did like about this book.
00:17:59
Sure, I agree. I think my single favorite thing
00:18:04
I liked was, you know, seeing I, I feel like we did get a a
00:18:09
deeper dive into Jed and you you mentioned like this idea of we
00:18:16
need to know more about the TS LS.
00:18:19
Yeah, OK. Yep, David.
00:18:20
I thought like that that was almost addressed to me.
00:18:22
You like OK, they they were listening to our pod even though
00:18:25
like they weren't where they wrote this way before we even
00:18:27
did this pod, but like. They knew it was time.
00:18:29
They they, they could tell like, all right, we've established who
00:18:33
these kind of characters are and we, we need to play on them a
00:18:36
little more. And immediately David has to
00:18:39
play a role. And then I thought it was super
00:18:42
intriguing to bring in this like infallibility with David, with,
00:18:46
you know, him, his jealousy, his rage, almost like you can see
00:18:51
like all right in everyone, no matter who you are, whether
00:18:54
you're a shepherd, normal person, not you can be
00:18:57
susceptible to demons. And so I, I, I, I loved all that
00:19:04
same thing with Ben, you know, like the with him and the rage
00:19:08
at the end, his anger, his, his revenge.
00:19:11
Like I, I would question that he got most of those people killed
00:19:17
in that final scene because of the inner demons.
00:19:21
And I, I, I, I'm almost positive we're going to, we're going to
00:19:24
reflect on that in the beginning of the next book.
00:19:27
We have to. Ben.
00:19:30
Something's happening with Ben. We not only lose Johnny, but we
00:19:34
lose Carl. Yeah.
00:19:36
Yeah. Multiple people are injured.
00:19:39
Like it it it that last battle insane.
00:19:43
I also say like that's the other thing.
00:19:45
That last battle was amazing. Like it was wild, like written
00:19:51
very well. I I had to go back and listen to
00:19:53
it multiple times because we're cutting back from Sarah Beth's
00:19:57
projections and then then going back and rewinding and seeing
00:20:01
the same thing from Jed side or seeing the same thing from a
00:20:04
demon side or seeing the same thing from Ben's side.
00:20:08
Like, you know, literally we're, we're experiencing what?
00:20:14
Like 10 minutes worth of a battle, but over the course of
00:20:19
two hours, yeah, like 2 hours of like of audio book time.
00:20:22
Like it's insane. I was peeking at the cemetery
00:20:25
scene, which comes just after the halfway point, and when that
00:20:29
wrapped up and they saved Jed and David was the hero, I was
00:20:33
like, what? What else are they going to?
00:20:35
Do I know right? Where are they going to go with
00:20:37
this? And then to come out with that
00:20:40
final scene, I was like, OK, I can enjoy the rest of my time
00:20:42
now because I wasn't sure what was going to fill that space.
00:20:45
And and they filled it with a epic, epic battle.
00:20:47
Not as good as the Saint George's battle.
00:20:49
Not as good, but still very. Powerful, but still very
00:20:52
powerful one. And then I like how the the
00:20:55
girls came together when the Sarah Beth and Corbin
00:20:58
projections found the watchers, the children hiding in the guest
00:21:02
house. And so they projected over there
00:21:04
and were able to communicate with Sonny.
00:21:06
I think that added a little more drama that, you know, when Mambo
00:21:09
Italia escaped with Sonny, we saw that play out.
00:21:14
So yeah, I like that. I like that.
00:21:16
I do want to go back to the TSL point.
00:21:18
I I was very happy, really happy when early on he's still in
00:21:23
Santo Domingo, so still the Dominican Republic.
00:21:27
And he just it's probably before he got arrested, but the woman
00:21:30
came up to him and said, help me find my child, help me find my
00:21:33
child. And he's he he's like, I don't
00:21:36
know how I can help. What can I possibly do?
00:21:39
But he promises this lady, I'll keep my eyes peeled.
00:21:43
And he and he calls David. I that meant so much to David
00:21:46
and it meant so much to me as the reader felt validated, like
00:21:49
TS LS need to play a role. Jed's out here out of his
00:21:53
element, supposed to be on vacation, relaxing.
00:21:55
He can't get this thing out of his mind.
00:21:57
He thinks it sounds like, you know, he was placed there by
00:22:01
divine intervention. The woman was told to go to this
00:22:03
cathedral. He was like, oh, I have some
00:22:05
free time. Let me go walk and see the
00:22:07
sights. Like he knew.
00:22:10
And maybe that's what we all need to tune into, right?
00:22:12
These things that happen in our life.
00:22:13
So we just write off as a coincidence or we're too busy on
00:22:15
our phones or we're too busy with media.
00:22:17
We don't even notice these moments, these human
00:22:19
interactions, which maybe are taking place for a reason, for a
00:22:23
purpose, and we all just write it off, come up with 1
00:22:25
reasons or too distracted to care.
00:22:28
Well, that's what makes Watchers and shepherds different is that
00:22:31
they're attuned to those things. And maybe we all can learn from
00:22:34
that. And because he was attuned into
00:22:36
it, he just didn't even intentionally do it.
00:22:38
He just naturally called David. Like, I don't think it was like
00:22:40
a choice of like, I'm going to report this to my TSL.
00:22:43
It was just like I got to talk to somebody and even tells
00:22:46
David. He's like, I just felt the need
00:22:49
to talk to somebody. And so why not talk to you as a
00:22:51
spiritual guide for me. And David's like it really means
00:22:54
a lot that that you called me. So their relationship is helped
00:22:57
by this. David is finding purpose after
00:23:00
questioning his purpose, letting his daughter nearly get killed
00:23:03
twice. Yeah, I think David need to be
00:23:06
brought in. And that phone call showed me,
00:23:08
Dang, a guy like Jed operating without a David doesn't have
00:23:12
that spiritual guide, doesn't have that body to lean on,
00:23:15
doesn't have someone someone to to talk to and and question and
00:23:19
ask things and get advice from is lost.
00:23:21
And that was perfectly done. Then it came full circle when
00:23:25
David had the shovel killed the dark 1.
00:23:29
He felt powerless. He's like, Jed's going to die.
00:23:31
Sarah Beth is here watching with the projection.
00:23:33
She's like, he's like, I got I can't do anything.
00:23:36
I'm helpless. Oh, Jed gave his life
00:23:39
essentially to save David and Nail.
00:23:42
Well, the reason he's there is to save David Gal, Yeah.
00:23:44
Yeah, and Jed, like, sacrificed himself.
00:23:47
So David's like, I'm just a worthless piece of nothing.
00:23:51
I am totally worthless. Jed's the hero.
00:23:53
He sacrificed himself again. And now I got away and I'm safe.
00:23:58
He needed to do something. And I thought the cemetery scene
00:24:00
was just a perfect way to save the day.
00:24:02
And he he fought a dark one. We can say he fought and
00:24:05
defeated a Dark One with that shovel.
00:24:07
I immediately thought of you when, when we're going through
00:24:13
that scene of, of Jed calling, calling David.
00:24:16
And like, I loved it, you know, like I was like, ah, like, yes,
00:24:19
Martini got what he wanted. And like, you know, I did too,
00:24:22
like, because I agreed with you in the sense that the, the,
00:24:24
these, we've established these roles for these people and they
00:24:29
need to be utilized more. You know, I think, like I said,
00:24:33
we, we saw a lot more of introspection from Jed and he's
00:24:39
still like trying to explore his powers, you know, is it that
00:24:43
like, and I was wondering this, as Ben's powers are receding,
00:24:47
are, are Jed's powers rising? Is it, is it is it can, can
00:24:50
these powers only coexist in one shepherd?
00:24:54
Like, you know, like Jed will be the replacement for Ben.
00:24:57
And that's the, that's what we are, are grooming him for, you
00:25:00
know, 'cause he's not a watcher. He's not, he's obviously an
00:25:05
operator, but he, he's like, he's the best of both worlds.
00:25:07
He's an healer, He's a, he's a communicator.
00:25:09
He can. He can do a lot of different
00:25:11
things. And that builds off last book
00:25:14
when Ben was so shocked and everybody was shocked that Jed
00:25:17
sees the dark Ones, they expose themselves to him.
00:25:19
And the conversation with Rachel of, like, you actually saw, you
00:25:24
know, the demon leave Kenny's body that night.
00:25:28
And, like, he and Rachel were the only ones who saw it.
00:25:31
So he's got the. Yeah.
00:25:32
I wonder. It's something like the
00:25:34
midichlorians, right? He's got more midichlorians than
00:25:36
everyone else. Or, or there's a prophecy of the
00:25:38
chosen 1. And I like this idea of Ben
00:25:41
giving it to Jed. And that's why Ben is kind of
00:25:44
regressing, if you will. The other question about Ben is
00:25:48
his son, his wife and son. Oh yeah, his two kids, but
00:25:51
primarily his son with the, with a lot of these gifts comes up.
00:25:55
That's got to be a plant, right? That that's that's a seed.
00:26:00
Well, for sure, because the multiple times that they bring
00:26:02
it up that like there was some something happened because of
00:26:06
his powers, like his powers are so strong.
00:26:09
You know, it's almost like, like it's been done before.
00:26:15
And and you know, whether it's X-Men or, you know, some sort of
00:26:18
stories that like you, you've had to protect this kid from his
00:26:21
powers. Like he, he, they, they don't
00:26:23
even let him go to Saint George's.
00:26:24
Like exactly. Yep.
00:26:27
But he's the first person to come in and say something like
00:26:30
Jed is is missing or like Jed is.
00:26:33
I think Ben gets off the phone with Jed in prison and Ben is
00:26:36
thinking like I hope. There's, oh, he's like, he
00:26:38
didn't do it. He didn't.
00:26:39
He didn't kill the guy right? That battle with collection.
00:26:42
He knew. He knew immediately that he he
00:26:44
wasn't the one that that killed the guy.
00:26:46
Yep, exactly. He's like, he didn't kill him,
00:26:47
Dad. Yeah.
00:26:48
So that I think that kid has a role to play.
00:26:50
And I think that's going to be related to Ben losing his
00:26:55
powers, like it's shifting to his son.
00:26:57
And how you cultivate that, who knows?
00:27:00
Do you do you take the Sarah Beth approach of how she's been
00:27:02
brought in and bring this kid to Saint George and let him go
00:27:04
through the program? You know, get a keeper.
00:27:08
It seems like Ben is hesitant to do that.
00:27:12
Yeah. So I guess it must be I feel
00:27:14
like they were either referenced some incident or you know,
00:27:18
something that they know about him that they're just weary
00:27:21
about having him use his powers to his full the full extent so
00:27:26
did. You think Ben was going to die?
00:27:29
No, I had AI had a feeling that he was going to die.
00:27:35
You know, I, I felt like they were trying, he was trying to
00:27:37
set it up that we, you know, we thought Ben was going to die,
00:27:41
but I never, I never really thought that he was going to
00:27:44
die. I don't know.
00:27:45
Yeah, I think they're setting up a change is going to come and I
00:27:48
and I left open the possibility that that change is been dying.
00:27:53
I see them dying in the next. I think he has to have a
00:27:56
showdown with Mambo Italia and that's, yeah, he saved Sani or
00:28:00
something. Some sort of Revenge of the Sith
00:28:02
type type battle. You know, I have the.
00:28:06
This was their first encounter. They they have to, you know,
00:28:10
encounter again. Yeah.
00:28:12
And you know, I thought it was super cool.
00:28:15
Like just like we said last time that Maria Perez's recruiter was
00:28:19
a politician and in this one we have multiple politicians.
00:28:24
Yep, the Haitian president, the German guy, and.
00:28:28
The the Spanish guy. And Spanish guy?
00:28:32
Yep, Yep. Yeah.
00:28:32
So he, he's, he's at the UN. I think that needs to come to a
00:28:37
head cause we've heard hints that the dark side is in
00:28:40
multiple positions of power internationally on a
00:28:42
geopolitical scale. We've heard that was it the DNI
00:28:46
or or someone in our either defense or intelligence?
00:28:48
Department is on the line with the good side, yeah.
00:28:50
Aligned with the the shepherds instead of going on a Side Story
00:28:55
to a Caribbean island and and voodoo witches and priestesses.
00:28:59
I want like this world of the Shepherds to combined with a
00:29:03
traditional thriller, espionage, spy thriller.
00:29:06
So I want like the Shepherd's version of a congressional
00:29:11
hearing or a meeting at Langley or, you know, and maybe GAIL can
00:29:16
be that vehicle, maybe something with her.
00:29:19
And the Shepherds has to bring them into the US government a
00:29:22
little bit tighter. I just think we need to see them
00:29:24
operating in, within or against the US government or other world
00:29:29
governments. I think we need a political
00:29:31
shepherd's book soon instead of the Side Story adventure.
00:29:35
Maybe that's another reason why I was, you know, a little let
00:29:39
down by this novel, because I thought that's I I thought as
00:29:42
soon as where we're going that they're they're putting hints in
00:29:46
it made all right, we got rid of Victor.
00:29:49
Where are we going to go next? They obviously clearly like
00:29:52
thought of that angle by putting these politicians as being
00:29:57
members of the Dark Rising, but they just, you know, I don't
00:30:01
know. Didn't lean in.
00:30:03
It'll be very intriguing what they do with Mama and Talia.
00:30:07
And I think that's I'm still hooked.
00:30:09
I'm still, I still want to read the next novel.
00:30:11
Like, you know, even though I wasn't in love with this novel,
00:30:14
wasn't in love with half of the last one, I'm still into the
00:30:19
series and I I want to see where they go next.
00:30:23
They did enough to wet my whistle to be like, all right,
00:30:27
I'm intrigued. This book did enough, but from
00:30:30
the moment they opened with the vacation stuff and the team is
00:30:32
taking a break, I knew it was almost going to be a gap, almost
00:30:35
a filler. And it's not going to be a
00:30:36
straight up let's advance everything at Saint George,
00:30:39
let's advance everything at Trinity Loop.
00:30:42
Let's have some big plot that involves all of that coming
00:30:44
together. The second they said they're all
00:30:47
on vacation, I'm like up Side Story Jed, go off, do something.
00:30:50
Yeah, 'cause we, we didn't get any time at Trinity Loop, you
00:30:54
know, besides our little bit with Sarah Bath and and Corbin.
00:30:57
Like we're not spending, we're not seeing them interact during
00:31:01
class We're not, we're not getting into that.
00:31:04
We didn't get any of the team dynamic, like I said.
00:31:07
But we set up the special mission stuff, so now we know
00:31:09
that they're special missions unit.
00:31:11
It's like they're ready to go. I think we're ready to RIP, go
00:31:14
back to old time. And I think there's a lot of
00:31:16
promise in the series. And it ends with a kiss.
00:31:18
So GAIL is here to stay. I think that's going to add
00:31:22
another element. It's almost like what you wanted
00:31:25
Detective Perez to be, but she was dark, so you knew he can.
00:31:28
It can never happen. Well, now you get a chance to
00:31:30
see what they do with her moving forward.
00:31:32
I would say the series would be very much slipping for me if I
00:31:38
wasn't into GAIL and Jed. The fact that I'm OK with the
00:31:41
two of them together keeps me in it like I want to.
00:31:45
I want to see where they go. The other thing that was kind of
00:31:48
cool is those knocks, that couple that they first run into,
00:31:52
who is going to help them? Who get brutally murdered?
00:31:55
Who get whacked early and in a crazy way.
00:31:58
And then the voodoo stuff with the the dove being nailed to the
00:32:01
ceiling and the snake in the bed.
00:32:04
There was just some wild strange stuff where.
00:32:07
If Jed's able to heal the dove, they didn't even talk about
00:32:10
that. Right, so Jed does have the
00:32:12
healing powers, but he couldn't save Johnny this time.
00:32:14
He. Couldn't save Johnny this time,
00:32:16
but he his powers are growing. I don't think he could heal the
00:32:19
dove if Ben weren't relinquishing his powers.
00:32:24
That'll be interesting to figure out.
00:32:26
I think Ben's starting to realize there's a shift that
00:32:29
needs to take place. Maybe if Mike Moore passes, Ben
00:32:36
has to move into more of that spiritual guidance role.
00:32:40
Or he can go hardcore into just the logistics.
00:32:43
You know, running this thing as a military op, a straight up
00:32:45
military op, even though I can't do the spiritual stuff.
00:32:48
So there's a lot of ways you can go.
00:32:50
I'm interested. I'm definitely interested, All
00:32:52
right. You want to get into the
00:32:55
scorecard. Plot and action.
00:32:57
Let's just put those two together.
00:32:58
What do you say? I think I'm going to go A7 and
00:33:04
A7. Yeah.
00:33:08
Maybe even like a the action. I think the action's A7,
00:33:14
action's A7 it's saved. Suspense.
00:33:17
It's saved by the suspense, the cemetery and I think that the
00:33:21
end scene at the dark rising. We didn't even talk about the
00:33:28
the action scene in Paris. Like this whole side mission
00:33:30
that's not even like, you know, Jed doesn't he have has no idea
00:33:33
what's going on where essentially.
00:33:37
Dark Rising. Yeah, essentially Ben takes them
00:33:41
into a a suicide mission, unbeknownst to him like that.
00:33:45
That's two instances. The first when he comes out and
00:33:50
they only lose 1 operator, but they lose way more operators
00:33:55
than the second one, so that's 2.
00:33:56
Second battle, yeah. 2 battles that he's now taking people in
00:34:01
that you could question his leadership ability for.
00:34:04
Yeah, because he's blinded by anger and hatred.
00:34:06
Anger. Yeah.
00:34:07
It's literally Star Wars. No, it is.
00:34:09
It is Joseph's Campbell, you know.
00:34:13
It all stories are the same, yeah.
00:34:15
You just put a different variety, different spice on
00:34:17
them. Yeah.
00:34:18
I think maybe it was 7 or 6. I was going to say 7 sounds
00:34:22
great for action slash suspense because the final battle of the
00:34:26
cemetery scene plot, though, I got to go lower.
00:34:29
The one thing preventing me from going lower than six, so I'm I'm
00:34:32
7:00 and 6:00 as well, is that I like the school development.
00:34:37
I liked all the moments with the kids being groomed, with the
00:34:40
different adults at the school, like one who's like the
00:34:43
principal, Miss Whitlock or something.
00:34:45
Oh yeah, she was creepy. She was creepy.
00:34:47
She was tough as nails. And then there was that other
00:34:50
one who they kind of liked, and Sonny was like reading her mind
00:34:52
and she's. Like she actually had no idea
00:34:54
what the hell was going on. She just was a good person, good
00:34:57
teacher, no idea what's going on, wanting to help the kids,
00:34:59
but she's like, oh, this is strange.
00:35:01
And this yeah, like I, I miss Harper.
00:35:03
I think I I liked everything at the school and the kidnapping
00:35:07
stuff was OK. So that keeps me out of 6 for
00:35:10
the plot. The voodoo stuff.
00:35:12
I'd probably go lower on some of the the way Mambo Talley isn't.
00:35:19
She is the villain, but Calypso's the villain and I
00:35:21
don't know exactly who Calypso is.
00:35:22
Calypso has weird powers too of. She's like infiltrate dreams.
00:35:28
She's like, I'm going to come to Jed tonight and it will be fun.
00:35:30
She was creepy with her little like very loose.
00:35:33
Serpentine and yeah, yeah, there's a.
00:35:36
Monster. There's multiple times where Jed
00:35:40
has that dream where he's on the beach.
00:35:41
Yep, and he can't move. And she's the monster.
00:35:44
And she's the monster that comes out and like, but in actuality,
00:35:47
she's there in real life, like suffocating him like that.
00:35:50
That was super crew. But I think that's another thing
00:35:52
that like brings up suspense and action.
00:35:53
Like what? Why it justifies the seven there
00:35:55
because some of the certain nuances with these characters.
00:36:01
Very interesting. Yeah, it might do that, but it
00:36:04
also to me hurts the plot a little bit because I just don't
00:36:07
know exactly how it fit in. Just Mambo Italia is like
00:36:11
lackey. Yeah, I don't know.
00:36:14
I didn't get the role for Calypso exactly.
00:36:17
No. Just a henchman.
00:36:20
Yeah. Part big bad, part henchman.
00:36:23
That and the the other henchman who could see Sarah Beth.
00:36:28
Vegan Vegan. Veto vegan.
00:36:30
Yeah. Didn't do much for me.
00:36:34
It wasn't explained why he can sense her in the projection.
00:36:38
I assume that because he was a. I'm guessing he's like is he the
00:36:42
original Dark watcher like he and then he's risen the ranks.
00:36:47
Of he's like a Ben, he has the power like a Ben on that side.
00:36:50
Or he was the Sarah Bath at one point.
00:36:52
I don't know. They didn't do enough to like.
00:36:54
Maybe Corbin. He's he's like a Corbin on
00:36:56
there. Yeah, they didn't do enough to
00:36:57
fully explain that though. And even though they they always
00:37:01
mentioned that he could get them, he never actually did.
00:37:04
Like that would have been more creepy and intense if like he
00:37:09
could touch them in the projection and like cause pain
00:37:12
that way. We came close a few times.
00:37:15
You came close, but we never confirmed.
00:37:17
I think if that if that gap would have been bridged and that
00:37:21
happened, I think it would have upped the stakes a lot, yeah.
00:37:24
Because now they're no longer safe.
00:37:26
Yeah, and I would have been OK with that and, and trying to
00:37:28
figure out why they're no longer safe.
00:37:29
And it's because of what they're doing at the school.
00:37:32
What Veden can do is what they're trying to change the
00:37:34
zombie children to do. That would have been cool.
00:37:39
So let's just go to bad guys then, because all this, yeah, is
00:37:42
bad guys talk. They all individually have cool
00:37:46
traits. I don't think they all work that
00:37:48
well as a interrelated cast. I think I have to go 3.
00:37:52
Yeah, I was. I was going to say this XX but
00:37:55
I'm going. To go 3.
00:37:58
You know, I, I guess I'm raising it up from that 2 1/2 because I
00:38:03
the potential promise that we could get with Mambo Talia and
00:38:07
the idea of an ecalipso, the idea of a of Eden are
00:38:10
intriguing. The idea of this, you know,
00:38:12
we're seeing more and more of the dark players of the world.
00:38:18
You know, now that we we no longer have Victor, getting to
00:38:21
see the Victor's like Dark Rising was kind of cool.
00:38:25
Like in the service Leia flashback back to the day.
00:38:29
So what are you bought? In Yeah.
00:38:33
Are you bought into all this? No, but I'm not like that's the
00:38:36
problem. Yeah, the same way plot went
00:38:37
down. I don't think I can go higher
00:38:40
than A2. Yeah, yeah.
00:38:44
The problem is I'm bought. I'm bought into like the series
00:38:48
because I want to see how it goes, but into this novel, into
00:38:52
what they're trying to sell me for this book, I was taken out
00:38:58
of it. Yep, I agree.
00:38:59
And this one off exploratory plot, not having all of our
00:39:05
members, you know, bringing in other elements.
00:39:09
I just wasn't bought it. Took me out.
00:39:11
Yeah, this is the worst stand alone book you could ever read.
00:39:16
If if someone picks this book up without knowing the shepherds,
00:39:21
that's a mistake. Like, Oh yeah.
00:39:23
You're just, you're confused. I don't know what you would
00:39:25
think. Yeah, I don't know.
00:39:26
Yeah. You would have no idea and power
00:39:29
to them though, because. They had to do something
00:39:32
different. Well, they had to do something
00:39:34
different, but I think a lot of authors try to play that game of
00:39:38
like, we're not only writing to our hardcore fans, we're writing
00:39:41
to somebody who just sees our book in the bookstore and wants
00:39:44
it. I I think Andrews and Wilson
00:39:46
realize they're not they're not the like household name of like
00:39:51
you see them in Barnes and Noble.
00:39:53
You see them at the airport, you see them at the CVSI don't think
00:39:56
they need they they don't need that.
00:39:58
Their thing is like right in volume and right for the people
00:40:01
we're writing for. Like they have a niche audience
00:40:03
and they cater to them. So I think the fact that they
00:40:06
just kept going in the series without needing to do a whole
00:40:08
book which re establishes everything, which is to like
00:40:12
didactic and teachy and preachy about who the watchers are and
00:40:15
explaining their gifts and going back to phase one.
00:40:18
They didn't do that. They just wrote a book for the
00:40:20
series and kept it moving. So I would say power to them on
00:40:23
that. They weren't trying to, you
00:40:24
know, bring in new people and captivate new people.
00:40:27
It's like we know who we're writing for.
00:40:28
Our Shepherd's audience is all in.
00:40:31
Let's give them an adventure. But it's still A2 all.
00:40:35
Right. What about good guys, Mike?
00:40:38
I think, I think this is where it shines.
00:40:39
We said the good guys are each showing a different side of
00:40:43
themselves. Unfortunately for a lot of them,
00:40:45
that's a a bad side of themselves.
00:40:47
But I think that should have been named.
00:40:49
I think there were so many hints that Ben is driven by anger,
00:40:53
David is driven. By I wanted them to explain
00:40:55
what's going on. And that's the point of these
00:40:59
networks. The watchers have their keepers.
00:41:02
The operators have their TSL. Why aren't they talking to each
00:41:04
other and saying, hey, yeah, I have.
00:41:06
I just had this feeling. Well, oh, that's 'cause it like,
00:41:10
you know, we need to, you know, because David even had that a
00:41:15
little bit in the last novel, you know, like he's, he's,
00:41:18
that's been bubbling up. It needs to be addressed.
00:41:23
If it's not addressed early in the next book, I might get
00:41:27
upset, you know? I, I think it maybe it's a
00:41:31
learning moment. I think it there needs to be
00:41:33
stakes and consequences for each character realizing they have
00:41:37
these hang ups or they're making these mistakes.
00:41:40
And I think they just need to realize they need each other.
00:41:42
And and you, you have to be a team and you have to be honest
00:41:45
and you have to have lines of communication because we're sold
00:41:48
on the TS LS are vital. Pastor D Sarah Beth talking to
00:41:52
Pastor D even in this one, takes a weight off her shoulder.
00:41:56
And she's worried about being in in the watcher room, the white
00:41:58
room, too much. And she's worried about studying
00:42:01
for her exams. And, you know, everyone still
00:42:04
scarred from the big battle when she sits down, talks to Pastor
00:42:07
D, It's so powerful. I think everybody involved needs
00:42:12
to realize that. Name it.
00:42:14
And we've got to see more open lines of communication as their
00:42:17
only way to be successful and the only way to fix themselves.
00:42:20
And I think we have to look inside in the next book.
00:42:23
I think a lot of the next book has to be people sharing heart
00:42:28
to heart, everyone on the team needing to open up to each other
00:42:32
or else mistakes continue to get made that have deadly
00:42:34
consequences. Yeah.
00:42:36
So I like what the good guys are doing here.
00:42:38
I see some, you know, cracks in the wall and I think that's a
00:42:41
good thing ultimately for everyone to have to learn from.
00:42:44
So I'm going to go for and go, guys.
00:42:46
I'm going to make up some ground here.
00:42:48
All right, I'll see you what you're for.
00:42:50
That's what we're pretty. We're pretty lock step on this
00:42:52
one. It's a little high.
00:42:54
I I think if three 3 1/2 could be valid, but and GAIL I I buy
00:42:58
into GAIL. Yeah, I know.
00:42:59
I think GAIL. Is enough.
00:43:01
I think like that that's that's got to be like the the edging
00:43:04
thing is, is GAIL and her shiny moments in this novel.
00:43:07
Yeah. And then those knocks, great
00:43:09
characters, even though they were whacked, it's like that was
00:43:12
a great little side character. And sunny level character.
00:43:15
Sunny. Sunny.
00:43:17
Grandma. You know, grandma, like, like
00:43:19
just these other little minor characters that we we get and
00:43:21
are exposed to for sure. Yep, setting.
00:43:27
You, how did you feel about going to the Dr. Haiti, being
00:43:32
down there pretty much the entire time?
00:43:33
We go a little time in Paris, you know.
00:43:37
Yeah, the way the border was described was actually pretty
00:43:42
good. We do a whole lesson actually on
00:43:44
the split between Dr. in Haiti and what not.
00:43:48
Yeah, the little towns crossing the border, the school good, not
00:43:53
great as there's nothing that stands out.
00:43:55
It's it's not like I felt the island vibes like it's not like
00:43:59
I hear the steel drum, you know, I'm drinking coconut water.
00:44:02
I, I wasn't that immersed in it, but I was immersed enough to
00:44:07
know the local lay of the land. Even Jed doing the sightseeing
00:44:10
and and Santa Domingo. And it's OK.
00:44:15
The the two most memorable settings almost have nothing to
00:44:18
do with that whole island Dominican Haitian vibe.
00:44:20
It's just a cemetery, which was I pictured in my mind with the
00:44:24
the 2 dark ones sitting in that car, Sure.
00:44:26
Watching the grave. And then the final house, the
00:44:29
final palace, what was it? Palace of Lost Souls?
00:44:32
Those two stand out. Besides that, not much.
00:44:35
So I'm going to go with three. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm
00:44:40
going to go a little bit higher than that.
00:44:41
I think I'm going to 3 1/2 because I think I liked the
00:44:47
Paris catacombs. Like the description of that
00:44:49
with the, you know, the original dark rising and then, and then
00:44:54
going into, you know, the, the first dark, you know, the sort
00:44:58
of the interrupted dark rising. And I, I actually felt like, you
00:45:02
know, not that I've ever been to Haiti, but I did do a project on
00:45:05
Haiti in high school. And, you know, understanding
00:45:10
this whole, this island, which, you know, very crazy history
00:45:15
and, and the border and, you know, sort of understanding
00:45:18
those, you know, having these two people where one speaks
00:45:21
French, one speaks Spanish and like just the, the mix of the
00:45:24
culture there. I thought that they did a decent
00:45:26
job of, of, of bringing that in. So I'm I'm going to go a little
00:45:30
bit higher. I think that's fair, yeah.
00:45:32
Yeah, I think that's totally fair, unfortunately.
00:45:37
Cover. Man, I would be too fair.
00:45:39
No, not at all. All right.
00:45:42
Worst cover in the series. Worst cover in the series?
00:45:46
By far. Worst cover we cover on the
00:45:49
podcast. Quite possibly not.
00:45:52
Possibly no. Possibly that is you.
00:45:56
You're smoking one man. We've seen way worse covers.
00:45:59
There's no power lines first of all.
00:46:03
Power lines would make it better.
00:46:07
Extreme might make this better. You got GAIL in the mix.
00:46:11
You got a Jedediah. I think he's a little skinny for
00:46:14
for Jedediah. Maybe he'll leave a little short
00:46:18
for Jedediah. But I'm just, I'm just like,
00:46:22
where are they? Where are they running through
00:46:26
the streets of, you know, the capital of what's the capital of
00:46:33
Santo Domingo? Santo Domingo?
00:46:34
Like, are they at the palace? No, it looks like they're in the
00:46:42
city somewhere. So it.
00:46:43
Looks like they're on the city street cobblestones.
00:46:45
No, they, if they, the two of them, were actually in Paris,
00:46:50
this scene, you know, like running up to try to find the
00:46:53
Dark rising, This would make sense.
00:46:57
Yeah, but that was not the. Only problem is they're not on
00:46:59
that team. They were gallivanting around
00:47:02
Dr. in Haiti. They they had a couple long
00:47:04
drives going out the. Jungle not in cities.
00:47:07
Yeah, or, or out in that house in the middle.
00:47:09
Or the farm, The house. Yeah, exactly.
00:47:11
Yeah, this makes no sense to me. I'm just going to be honest.
00:47:15
GAIL doesn't even meet, doesn't even meet up with him until he's
00:47:19
in prison. So she gets him out of prison?
00:47:21
Yeah. The two of them are never
00:47:22
actually like he is the only one that's walking through the city.
00:47:25
He's like, you know, one time he's he's running from running
00:47:28
to try to catch that dark one. Because the kidnapper, the
00:47:30
kidnapper, the kid. Fighting Calypso.
00:47:34
She's Gail's not anywhere to be seen for that.
00:47:39
You need a cemetery bro. I I'm sorry I I need a cemetery
00:47:43
on the cover. That scene was so cool.
00:47:45
Sarah Beth projecting and telling him how to go and how to
00:47:48
find the grave, then digging him up and David with.
00:47:50
The I would even take him like a like a crazy palace in in the
00:47:54
Caribbean, you know, like some sort of estate from a, from a
00:47:58
high. A big wide open estate drone
00:48:00
shop. Yes, I am not not a cobblestone
00:48:03
European looking city. Or lean into the voodoo.
00:48:08
Right, you can do some of the voodoo.
00:48:09
Symbols like have some voodoo symbols have a voodoo doll or
00:48:13
like you know, something like that we.
00:48:17
Just talk about the purple as well.
00:48:19
Purple doesn't work. I guess because they're going
00:48:22
for like the whole spooky vibe. Purple don't work.
00:48:28
I could have taken like an ocean blue, like a Caribbean blue like
00:48:31
on the Barbados flag or something, you know, like that,
00:48:34
that kind of blue. But.
00:48:36
All right, So what are you giving it?
00:48:37
Man, I might have to go 1. Yeah, 1 for sure.
00:48:44
This is where not having multiple covers you know can
00:48:48
hurt. Yeah, an alternate one maybe
00:48:52
could have brought it up a point or two or but.
00:48:54
Yeah. I'm just, I'm just not too happy
00:48:56
with it. And GAIL, terrible silhouette
00:49:00
outline running away from some sparks randomly appearing on
00:49:03
cobblestones. No thank you.
00:49:05
Gail's shape is so weird too. I don't.
00:49:10
All right, well, what's your free space, my dude?
00:49:12
It looks like something from West Side Story A.
00:49:14
Little bit, a little bit. They're running away from the
00:49:21
The Jets, the Sharks, I. Don't know man, I've said it
00:49:28
over and over. I like the cemetery scene.
00:49:30
I just think it's well written. It was it to me was the peak of
00:49:34
suspense. I know the final battle was
00:49:36
supposed to be it, but the most I was bought into this book was
00:49:41
the cemetery, seen him buried alive, and I knew David had a
00:49:45
role to play and I would. There we go between the cemetery
00:49:50
scene, but also David's arc in this book, coming around,
00:49:53
realizing he has a role to play, realizing he has value to Jed,
00:49:56
to the team, into the mission. I think that was sorely needed
00:50:00
and it's satisfied. What's a good one?
00:50:06
Yeah, to me, it's it's got to be the the dark watchers and and
00:50:10
and particularly sunny like in her interactions with with Jed,
00:50:16
her interactions with with Sarah Beth and I, I just I have a
00:50:20
feeling that she's going to be a major player to come in the next
00:50:25
couple books. I agree.
00:50:28
You know, I think, I think she has the power to be like a
00:50:30
Corbin, to be like a Sarah Beth. So I'm Sarah Beth.
00:50:35
Is the Corbin to her? Sure.
00:50:37
Like I'm I'm super intrigued by what she can and and will do to
00:50:42
me. Like she's my freest base so.
00:50:44
I'm with you, Perfect. I do have a Limerick which goes
00:50:51
to some of our points that we discussed here tonight.
00:50:55
As Calypso comes on hot and heavy.
00:50:58
Jed nearly dies and was buried, but grabbing the shovel, David
00:51:03
ends the tussle, though Ben Morvan seems quite wary.
00:51:09
You running buried with heavy A. Little bit of a stretch.
00:51:13
Yeah. I I think something with the
00:51:15
pronunciation was supposed to make it rhyme better and I
00:51:17
didn't pull it off just. Like this book?
00:51:20
We'll we'll give you an A for effort, an A for thank you.
00:51:22
Appreciate that. Yeah, one out of five.
00:51:27
All right, well. Start scoring the limericks.
00:51:28
Now we definitely have our lowest score of the series.
00:51:31
Last book we were 31 or 35. This one we're a 31 and a 31.5.
00:51:37
I would say like it. It's not quite 20s territory.
00:51:40
No, no, low low 30s is where it. Should Yeah, so.
00:51:44
The scorecard works the scorecard.
00:51:46
Lives. Yeah.
00:51:47
Doesn't lie. Scorecard doesn't lie.
00:51:49
All right, well, yeah, we have a like I said at the top, we have
00:51:52
a lot coming for you guys. Brad Thor, Kyle Mills fade in
00:51:57
edge of Honor essay Cosby probably going to throw in some
00:52:00
Eric Bishop into there. Let me just pull up our reading
00:52:03
list. Sons of Valor 4.
00:52:07
We have a new atron, Brad Elder. He's a bona fide author.
00:52:12
We'll be covering his book Recoil of Justice.
00:52:16
So God, God, we, we want to get into nuclear war.
00:52:22
Steve Berry, terminalist the show, Dan Brown We, we have a
00:52:27
lot. We have a lot, but we have the
00:52:30
summer. It's summertime, baby.
00:52:31
Happy, happy belated Father's Day to you, Mike.
00:52:33
Thank you Sir, yourself as well. Congrats on being a new father.
00:52:36
Not to another child, not to another chicken, but this time
00:52:40
to a puppy. Yeah, I did it Got a puppy you.
00:52:44
Were forced to do it. I was forced to do it.
00:52:46
I'm an idiot, you know. What's another sleepless night?
00:52:50
It's all good. Happy Father's Day is a little
00:52:54
bladed. But to all the fathers out
00:52:55
there, all the fathers that are patrons, Oh, we didn't even
00:53:00
mention we had a fantastic, probably one of our best patron
00:53:05
Hangouts last week, talking about a little bit of the 7th
00:53:08
floor, mainly talking about other stuff.
00:53:11
So you know if you want to be a part of our ever growing
00:53:17
dialogue of our patrons. Bunch of nerds talking about
00:53:21
thrillers. The Thriller Pod Book Club.
00:53:24
Go to our website. Yeah, Patreon tab.
00:53:28
Patreon tab Patreon. Page.
00:53:31
You get access to. I think I called it the book
00:53:34
club tab. It's like the book club tab.
00:53:36
Get access to Probably the best thing on earth is our WhatsApp.
00:53:40
Group chat. Group as well as our monthly
00:53:43
more quarterly Hangouts. Mike even had his first meet up
00:53:47
last year. So we want to do we have we have
00:53:50
a big plans coming forward for this group.
00:53:53
We've been ever evolving couldn't do it without you guys.
00:53:56
So before we get out of there, out of here, need to thank our
00:54:00
patrons, Deputy Director Sherry F and Brad, Special Agents Ben,
00:54:07
Darrell, Kevin, George, Matt, Don, Peggy, Chris and Mark.
00:54:14
Yeah, we'll take us out of here. Mike.
00:54:18
Just like Gale be Gale. There we go, Love it.