Chris & Mike discuss the first half (Ch.1-47) of Only the Dead by Jack Carr - the latest release in "The Terminal List" series featuring James Reece.
Please subscribe, rate & review using Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting platform. You can find us online at ThrillerPod.com and on Twitter or Instagram @ThrillerPodcast.
This episode is made possible thanks to our fantastic Patrons! For less than the price of a novel a month, you can help us keep the show going and get access to exclusive content and signed book giveaways! Become a Patron today at Patreon.com/ThrillerPod
00:00:15
Hey guys. I'm Chris and I'm Mike and
00:00:19
welcome back to this week's No Limits.
00:00:21
The Thriller podcast. What's new this week, Mike,
00:00:26
dude. Jack car week.
00:00:27
It's here. We are reading.
00:00:30
And reviewing another book in the James re series.
00:00:33
It feels great, dude. It is good to be back in this
00:00:37
universe. Yes.
00:00:38
And we was it last week or two couple weeks ago.
00:00:43
We did a Only The Dead preview pod and in that I said we need
00:00:50
answers finality. Yes finality.
00:00:53
And I don't know, I didn't at the time I had the copy but I
00:00:58
had not read a thread of thing. Avi, I'm completely transparent
00:01:01
with you guys. I did not know the answer to my
00:01:03
own question and boy, are we getting answers?
00:01:07
And I really think that is the theme going going forward here.
00:01:11
Like it's this is this book is a summation of the first Saga of
00:01:17
James Reese. What do you think, Mike?
00:01:19
Yeah, I feel like we've been mountain climbers.
00:01:22
We've been tracking this whole time and we're finally getting
00:01:26
to that Summit, you know, it just feels like something's
00:01:29
coming. And I think it was brilliant.
00:01:32
Brilliant move to start this book and make the whole point of
00:01:36
this book. Answering the question who is
00:01:38
Tom Reiss, right? And what did he leave for James?
00:01:42
We've gotten so much of Tom already in little bits and
00:01:46
Snippets and we're finally trying to see what his
00:01:49
overarching message was his life's work.
00:01:52
You know, what was his lasting Legacy?
00:01:56
That he a job that he never finished, and he wanted to pass
00:02:00
to James, he was hesitant about passing to James.
00:02:03
He ultimately even says, I maybe you shouldn't find this and I
00:02:06
hope you don't in a sense. And I just love your right, that
00:02:10
we are building towards that smart move genius, and we should
00:02:13
say, we assume that this book will get there right?
00:02:17
The way a true true true. But neither Christian nor I have
00:02:21
finished the entire book, we've only read Parts.
00:02:24
One and two which were covering here.
00:02:26
On our part 1 episode, but we're covering the first two parts of
00:02:30
the book up to chapter. What are we at like?
00:02:32
Forty four, forty eight, forty eight ish, boarding area. 47,
00:02:37
some like that. Yeah, yeah.
00:02:38
That's where part two ends. So, I would say it's roughly
00:02:42
almost the exact halfway point of the book.
00:02:44
Chapters 1 through 48. We will not be talking about
00:02:46
anything in the second half of the book here.
00:02:48
Today will have that episode to you hopefully in about a week or
00:02:52
so. Yep, and editor gives an inch
00:02:56
Any time we do this, where we record a pod before we finish
00:03:00
the book, it's interesting, right?
00:03:02
It's we are able to give some takes and honestly we're not
00:03:06
lying here we both we both have not finished the book my
00:03:09
actually before like three and three hours two hours before we
00:03:13
started recording. He's like I'm only on chapter
00:03:15
33. Where did you get to?
00:03:18
I was like well I made it all the way to chapter 50 and if you
00:03:21
can make it to the parts and apart to, that would be good but
00:03:23
if not there's some other parts where we can cut it and Made it.
00:03:26
So we're going to talk all the part 2 and boy.
00:03:29
Yeah. Am I glad he made it to the end
00:03:31
of part 2? Oh, dude, might be the best part
00:03:35
of the first half of this book. I think.
00:03:36
So, it's a killer scenes in Boston.
00:03:39
Yeah, yes. So I guess we should, we should
00:03:40
caveat, you know this book. What by the time this pod comes
00:03:43
out the book will have been out about a week, right?
00:03:46
So congratulations to Jack car on another successful Pub day.
00:03:51
Yeah, we hope that you've had a chance to one get the book if
00:03:55
you hadn't I don't know why you listen to this pod, but if you
00:03:57
hadn't go out and buy it, listen to the first half of the book.
00:04:01
Stop come back and then listen to us.
00:04:04
Talk about chapters, 1 through 47.
00:04:07
Yeah, man. I just just saying all that
00:04:09
setting up is getting me so amped.
00:04:11
So Jazz, just so much to say on this half and thank God.
00:04:16
You gave me that advice here. Like, you kind of push a little
00:04:19
bit here. See what you can do.
00:04:21
I put my headphones in. I went on three speed.
00:04:23
Some people do crazy, but Ray Porter is just perfect as very
00:04:30
good. His delivery.
00:04:31
I would listen at one speed and it's amazing.
00:04:34
Give it to me a three-speed. I could still keep up.
00:04:36
It's just all the voices or so distinct.
00:04:40
This is one of those audio books that I think transforms the
00:04:45
universe. It just adds that extra layer of
00:04:48
depth. I'm really enjoying reporter,
00:04:50
even though I've had to go fast at times to catch up to you,
00:04:52
Chris speed, speed reader over there.
00:04:55
But man, just it didn't even matter.
00:04:58
I just was propelled through the end of that second half, which I
00:05:03
can't say, about the first part of the book.
00:05:06
Yeah, yeah, let's little slow going before we get into it.
00:05:10
Let's, you want to, like, set us up kind of remind us where we
00:05:14
last left off with James race from in the blood.
00:05:18
Yeah. And I think you're right that
00:05:19
our preview episode. We tried to do a little bit of
00:05:22
that as we went over the prologue chapter 1 and chapter 2
00:05:25
in a lot of Depth. So definitely check out that
00:05:27
episode. But we'll do a little recap
00:05:30
here. I mean, in the blood introduced
00:05:33
Alice, I think that's a huge Point.
00:05:35
Yes, that that analysis back is back.
00:05:39
Alice is being touched on here. I think she's been handled
00:05:42
pretty well. He kind of whet my appetite a
00:05:46
little bit. The the time she's been dropped,
00:05:49
has me intrigued, really, really intrigued, and I'm hoping the
00:05:52
second part goes, even deeper into that because some seeds
00:05:56
have been planted. So basically, though, res and
00:05:59
Katie are at the ranch at their house, and he's considering
00:06:04
proposing, it's that to bottle of wine night and now we get a
00:06:07
three bottle of wine. Now we have three models will
00:06:09
get into that later. He's thinking about proposing
00:06:13
when all of a sudden, a phone rings, even though they're out
00:06:15
of cell service, everything should be blocked off.
00:06:18
They should have no connection to the outside world but it was
00:06:21
Alice pulling her strings to warn Reese, simply we here
00:06:24
because she kind of took a liking to him and realizes Has,
00:06:28
he's on the good side of things and so Alice tips them off and
00:06:31
says you know guys are coming in and gives him, gives them the
00:06:34
head heads up, he's able to give the key that his father left for
00:06:37
him. In the what kind of car was
00:06:40
that? Was that the Wagoneer Wagoneer?
00:06:42
That was the wagon. He was his Old Wagon area and
00:06:44
then in the rifle case it was left for him.
00:06:47
So he passes that key to the lock box to Katie right before
00:06:49
federal agents swarmed, the place, take him into custody,
00:06:53
take everything by the way. Yeah, when they went into that,
00:06:58
You know, sorry to stop you but when they went into that and how
00:07:00
they documented took all of his weapons, right?
00:07:03
You know, literally stripped his house of everything.
00:07:07
It's like Marcos the pro-life guy that they arrested in the,
00:07:11
you know, early in the morning with long guns pointed as wife
00:07:14
and kids at the front door but it's just like holy like I don't
00:07:19
know why I drew that connection but thinking back to this is
00:07:22
necessary. You know like is that rice is
00:07:24
very what is Justice, you know like what is the The role of the
00:07:28
government in doing that kind of thing to the citizenry.
00:07:31
And yeah I just had reminisces of some current abuses of power.
00:07:35
You know that we can we can use out so Mike and then he's in
00:07:39
solitary confinement. I mean Whoa, Reese is going
00:07:43
through some things, you know, he's got a lot going on here,
00:07:46
but what else did I miss? Where else, where we left off?
00:07:49
Hoping we can get more of. Yes.
00:07:51
He's been taken. President has been assassinated.
00:07:54
We don't know by who, right? We're going to quickly find out
00:07:58
early on in this book. What we know sort of what's
00:08:01
going on. I think that's kind of what you
00:08:03
were hinting at that this, you know, maybe if we had stopped A
00:08:07
little bit earlier before we got to the action-packed scenes in.
00:08:11
Boston, this, I want to call it a letdown, it's because I enjoy
00:08:16
Exposition, but it it was just a lot, a lot of exposition.
00:08:20
Like we've not only are we getting Exposition about the
00:08:25
back story of TOMS, Reese, the backstory of like you know what
00:08:29
maybe potentially I would you know, I could even see them
00:08:32
going into this is kind of I guess I haven't read in the
00:08:34
future. So I'm not, I don't want to, I
00:08:37
guess going into spoiler territory here, but he was kind
00:08:40
of hinting at that, you know, maybe the events that took place
00:08:43
in terminal is the fact that he was placed in that cancer thing.
00:08:46
Maybe all part of this Consortium thing, you know, this
00:08:50
overarching deep state esque plan that his we believe his
00:08:56
father you know this PO guy along with you know, the the got
00:09:01
the I guess the guy who was tapped to be president who was
00:09:04
killed in the prologue. We're working fine and working
00:09:08
in fighting against, right. As well as you know.
00:09:13
It's, it's Jack car. You know, he's putting in all
00:09:16
these real-world touch points, you know, it kind of Blends the
00:09:19
line of conspiracy theory and I don't know.
00:09:24
Do you know how much is his his thoughts versus what he's
00:09:30
putting into the Russians mines versus, you know what, the he
00:09:33
thinks the Russians would say it's very like Towing the line
00:09:36
of like aren't does. He think this isn't know he's
00:09:38
speaking his Russian and it. Very interesting to me trying to
00:09:40
figure out like what he's putting in on it, you know.
00:09:43
Yeah, that part of it. I did like it was kind of a mind
00:09:45
game for me. No, I like that part and it's
00:09:48
almost getting at that faction that Brad thorsten, yes, action.
00:09:53
But I will say the expositions been a lot of fun.
00:09:56
It was a touch heavy handed at times.
00:09:58
I'll agree because we had Vic, you know, spring recess out of
00:10:03
jail. He's got to talk about how Alice
00:10:05
ran this report. And basically came up with the
00:10:08
evidence that they had to vet. To make sure Reese was clean and
00:10:11
he was not the one who killed the president, and he planned
00:10:14
the assassination and Alice uncovered that.
00:10:17
But Vic, of course needed to do due diligence and make sure
00:10:21
Alice didn't fabricate that evidence to exonerate Ruiz, you
00:10:24
know, can you trust Alice? That's one of the big questions
00:10:27
but regardless we're getting Vic explaining all that you're
00:10:30
right. Then we get a little explanation
00:10:32
about well we get quite a bit of the Russian so I think you're
00:10:36
right, but yeah, we get a lot of the Russians, the exponent x.
00:10:39
In there and I am a junkie for the geopolitics in these
00:10:43
stories. It's just too removed from the
00:10:47
plot. It's like I'm going to write
00:10:50
this kind of mini essay in a chapter all about fraudulent
00:10:54
elections in the US and Russian interference and Ukraine, and
00:10:59
Iran, and Israel. And who would do what?
00:11:02
And kind of wargaming it out. And while I'm having fun social,
00:11:05
but also social media and fake news and Early and having a
00:11:11
touch point on it, talking about, you know, the culture
00:11:15
wars, like, literally every single hot-button issue was
00:11:18
brought up in those Russia chapters, right?
00:11:20
And it's kind of like, I prefer the balance a little more, the
00:11:24
dialogue of Dash, cough, and Levitsky who are, who really
00:11:28
have this power play back and forth right there?
00:11:30
Jockeying for position and that's a lot.
00:11:33
I was very interesting, but it, but it's almost been dwarfed or
00:11:36
or it's been, you know, drowned out by some of the geopolitical
00:11:41
landscape painting which is fun in its own right, but just a
00:11:45
little off balance. Yeah, later on his desk,
00:11:49
obviously is is he was grooming goes.
00:11:52
Is like right hand man. Like I feel like they had much
00:11:55
more of a even though they were, you know, obviously
00:11:58
counterparts. They had a much more friendly
00:12:00
relationship but now he's seen that like well one is friend is
00:12:06
dead and he's, you know, there's this new guy and new kid on the
00:12:10
Block doesn't want to show weakness and obviously the
00:12:13
president has, you know, his certain, he has other people who
00:12:16
he calls to and the little one liners.
00:12:20
You know, that like these little phone call, That happened
00:12:23
between Levitsky and and desk off, like and he gets them,
00:12:28
like, it's pretty funny. Like, I don't know, I enjoyed
00:12:31
those little scenes. Yep, it's about, isn't that?
00:12:34
Isn't that your office that was supposed to be handling that
00:12:36
thing? Yeah, exactly.
00:12:38
It's very past, I would say don't don't mess up because you
00:12:41
will be the you'll have the shortest tenure as the head of
00:12:45
the svr but you've their barbs are pretty good.
00:12:49
I do like the dialogue. That's why I'm saying.
00:12:52
Kind of want more of that instead of being drown out by
00:12:55
the other, the other background, which is like really good stuff.
00:12:59
I really like getting Jack's, thoughts and perspective on all
00:13:02
those other topics, including Ukraine, but it just seems kind
00:13:05
of put in here to put it in and you know, I think the drama of
00:13:10
the Iran nuke being kind of stolen and the drama of those
00:13:14
what was it uranium rods that are being trucked out and that
00:13:17
one guy who got the the poisoning from it from getting
00:13:21
too close that they used. I was almost felt very Flynn Ian
00:13:25
and that you're getting this character.
00:13:27
Yeah. Kinda is just your average.
00:13:29
Joe, we hear about his family. He wants to go home and see his
00:13:32
kids. You know, like Flynn did that
00:13:34
early on with like a random character who were all excited.
00:13:38
He's going to go see his son's baseball game or whatever, boom,
00:13:41
but then he doesn't make it home you know the action right
00:13:43
catches him up in the plot so that was a lot of fun.
00:13:46
But that kind of got filtered out and the drama of those
00:13:50
scenes isn't connecting for me. Back to the other drama or the
00:13:54
other plots. Simply because a lot of
00:13:56
exposition getting in the way. So it's almost too much of a
00:13:59
good thing, maybe that's how I'll put it.
00:14:02
Yeah. Like you know, if you were to
00:14:04
let the almost have you could have started with that scene of
00:14:09
them taking, you know the uranium course you know like you
00:14:13
don't need then cut back to say we stole it.
00:14:16
You know like I'm critiquing the writing here like I don't want
00:14:20
to do it too much because I actually Some of the writing
00:14:24
here, I really enjoyed so you know, I'm, I'm picking, nits
00:14:27
where we have to, you know, maybe we should get the nits out
00:14:30
of the way and then we can just, you know, gosh on what we love
00:14:33
about the book, I agree. Yeah, and I think while we're on
00:14:36
the right, just to knock it out of the way, we kind of got these
00:14:39
Armenian assassins or this gang of Armenians who wasn't very
00:14:42
well trained. You know, they were kind of
00:14:44
thrown at a plot and put together last minute, just
00:14:47
didn't seem like how our typical Russian handlers, you know, do
00:14:52
things. So Maybe that's on purpose,
00:14:54
right? That there's some sloppiness
00:14:55
here, some desperation out of Levitsky and then also a German
00:15:00
assassin. And I like the phone call a lot
00:15:04
and we're going to get to that scene, but it just felt like
00:15:07
wait we have an Armenian gang. Wait, we have this German
00:15:10
assassin who was hired what? We got these nuclear fuel rods
00:15:13
being moved in Iran. I want to see that get tightened
00:15:18
up a little bit, you know. Just a little tighter and how
00:15:21
all that connects. Could really do a lot for me.
00:15:25
So I think with that out of the way, let's you have anything
00:15:27
else to say? No?
00:15:29
I think that I think those are all of my - yeah.
00:15:31
Let's let's, let's get into the many positives we have.
00:15:34
Oh yeah, I want to get to James because we said it last time,
00:15:38
James is what makes this series sing?
00:15:40
I think it Jack made a character here.
00:15:43
Who is ultimately going to be in the pantheon of the Great's up
00:15:49
there, with Mitch up there with Scott Harvey with no Dow James
00:15:52
Reese. His name is is being put up
00:15:55
there, you know, Jack Ryan, everything.
00:15:58
So what did you think when Vic Springs him?
00:16:00
We get him out of prison. Man, he's reunited with Rafe.
00:16:04
He's eventually reunited with Katie.
00:16:06
Didn't that feel so good to have some of these people back from
00:16:09
Victor? Rafe to Katie?
00:16:12
Wasn't it amazing. Yeah, and I honestly thought,
00:16:17
you know, were, you know, we're 35 chapters in 33 chapters in
00:16:22
and Have no Katie yet and I was like, wow, he's really gonna do
00:16:27
this. He's gonna push her off until
00:16:29
much later. Because, first of all, I'm
00:16:31
thinking, you know, he went and saw the lady, he went, it went
00:16:34
to the pole Ranch is, I gotta go to this before because Vic Vic
00:16:39
came to see me, and I got to go. I got to go talk to Poe verse,
00:16:42
which we should talk about. Yeah, we'll get to that a lot.
00:16:46
Lot lot going on there. I love the OSS stuff.
00:16:49
By the way to. Yes.
00:16:50
That like the early stage CIA like You know OSS in into the
00:16:54
CIA I guess. Because it reminds me of every
00:16:57
time that Vince brought up what the Wild Bill Donovan days, you
00:17:01
know, like like learning about that through because I knew
00:17:04
nothing about it until I started reading these novels and then I
00:17:07
would dig it a little bit more into it.
00:17:08
But anyways, the fact that and then she's like comes out of
00:17:12
nowhere, right? He gets into his hotel room and
00:17:15
then boom, she's there. And it's like, of course, I knew
00:17:18
you're going to bring her in like, you know, and then that,
00:17:21
you know, Maybe it's not safe for this podcast to talk about
00:17:26
those couple chapters. Whoo.
00:17:28
How was Mark it explicit. That was a new side of Jack car.
00:17:33
I hadn't seen But ya know I think coming off the proposal
00:17:39
you knew that their first interactions was going to have
00:17:42
to be You're powerful, loving and yeah, great to have her back
00:17:50
and then sort of like not not in a sexual way but like in a very
00:17:54
similar emotional loving way his interaction with Rafe like
00:17:58
seeing him. Yeah.
00:18:00
You know, like they're not Blood Brothers but they are true
00:18:04
brothers and he is the only one that he can truly trust and the
00:18:08
fact that I like how he's becoming more of he's becoming
00:18:11
like a Scott type character. Do you know?
00:18:13
No, one of my favorite pieces of writing here.
00:18:19
I can't even say my favorite scene or anything, but just as a
00:18:21
piece of prose, when Rafe is talking about what James means
00:18:27
to him for having saved his life and this right at that, he owes
00:18:31
him because I was wondering that I'm like there at this random
00:18:36
house. I don't know about Poe yet.
00:18:39
I know we're being led to understand, he was an integral
00:18:43
part of James. His family and so of James's,
00:18:45
father and grandfather, you know trusted this guy and oh so you
00:18:48
were like a little on edge about him.
00:18:50
Yeah, I'm going to bring that up in a second.
00:18:52
I want to talk about him so but I don't feel as comfortable with
00:18:55
him yet, right? And sure.
00:18:57
Maybe, we don't know, maybe I'm not supposed to because while
00:19:00
he's got the photographs on the wall, I almost got Gollum Vibes.
00:19:04
When he asks from the key. Do you have the key James?
00:19:08
Your father. And I were working on something.
00:19:10
And if James Reese is hesitant and says, no and lies to him.
00:19:16
For some reason, I'll get the pope.
00:19:18
But the point is, when they're at this house, I'm interested is
00:19:21
James safe here. I know he should be but
00:19:25
something's wrong here and somebody did tip off the guys,
00:19:28
right? How did they know James was
00:19:31
there? Because that Armenian team was
00:19:32
sent for him? But when Rafe is like, I'm going
00:19:34
to be this, I think there is just the Russians, the Russians
00:19:37
new Russian Intel, you know, they had they were watching him
00:19:41
remember because, like, they they even knew once he went to
00:19:44
Boston. So I think they been watching Po
00:19:47
and this Martha lady for years, and she even says that right,
00:19:52
that I guess they didn't kill us because we didn't know, we
00:19:56
didn't actually know anything about it.
00:19:57
We just, we just knew, we knew the people connected to it, I
00:20:01
don't know. I do Wonder though if there's
00:20:03
Foul Play because something just told me, you know, this whole
00:20:06
trust no one, which there is a payoff to trust.
00:20:08
No one. But I'm also wondering like, if
00:20:11
that's his dad's advice to see mean, trust, no one even someone
00:20:14
who he thought was his closest. Po and maybe towards the end of
00:20:18
Tom's life, he realized Poe was not who we thought he was or
00:20:22
where there was a stab in the back, but James would never know
00:20:24
that. Right.
00:20:25
So all James would see is, oh, you knew my grandfather.
00:20:28
Oh, you know, right. I was fishing with you as a
00:20:31
little boy. Do you have pictures with me?
00:20:32
And oh, I have all these memories and stories, but does
00:20:36
James maybe not. Get read in on something happens
00:20:38
later in life that that time never got to tell him.
00:20:41
So I don't know. I'm just hesitant for the time
00:20:44
being, but when re-fax like this, Sentinel in the night and
00:20:48
he's just like I'm standing guard.
00:20:51
I'm going out with my Sniper. I'm not letting anything happen
00:20:54
to this man my brother like you said oh yeah the way that scene
00:20:58
was crafted it was just really really cool.
00:21:01
It was just Rafe being Rafe. But doing it out of his deep,
00:21:05
love it. You know, it's brotherly.
00:21:07
Love it is the example of Brotherly Love.
00:21:10
And I'm sure what the guys in the team's do for each other.
00:21:13
And I felt that come through on the page.
00:21:15
So strongly with Rafe in that scene.
00:21:17
Yeah. Because we almost start.
00:21:19
We Are we almost we do start that seem right with.
00:21:22
He's looking. It's all in rapes head, right?
00:21:25
Yes. He's looking at James seeing
00:21:27
that he's like, you know, Honestly, a little bit of a
00:21:31
broken man after being in prison and realize that I gotta I gotta
00:21:37
step up. You know, I got to do something
00:21:40
to protect us to protect him. This guy who saved my life.
00:21:44
Yeah, it's interesting. You brought up those things
00:21:46
about Poe, I have so to got a little bit of those vibes.
00:21:50
And I don't know why I was feeling that, I kind of brushed
00:21:52
it away, when Martha Stowe, when I know like I almost brush it
00:21:57
away. When we found out that That you
00:22:00
know, Martha and him were friends.
00:22:02
And then yeah, you know, it was all like one connection, but the
00:22:05
one that I kept like, trickling back to you like Poe is wealthy
00:22:10
because his father added like a shipbuilding business, right?
00:22:15
And, you know, that just like thinking back to this whole
00:22:18
Consortium business, right? It's all running of the.
00:22:24
Is it called extortion? What is it?
00:22:25
What is it called? There was a name for it, I don't
00:22:28
know. But that group The you know, the
00:22:30
the Deep State, another word for the Deep State and what isn't
00:22:33
the council ha, you know, suspect, you know, like pick a
00:22:37
name for it but it, you know. A cabal of Elites and they
00:22:42
mentioned that it's, it's people on both sides of the Iron
00:22:45
Curtain, right? It's it's Russians, it's
00:22:48
Americans. It's Canadians, it's
00:22:50
opportunity, you know, it's like it's opportunist.
00:22:54
They're the ones that are deciding to stuff and it's like,
00:22:57
oh well, he has old money. Is he actually a plant?
00:23:02
You know? Like yeah, that's kind of been,
00:23:04
you know, because also like, you need it can't be just this
00:23:07
straightforward, right? I'm thinking in my mind, it
00:23:09
can't be this straightforward. Yeah because the plot aside from
00:23:13
the Russia thing getting a little murky it's been a very
00:23:16
straightforward plot. Its you know the beats are kind
00:23:19
of hitting on like James is out of prison.
00:23:22
He's got things to track down about his father, the Russians
00:23:25
are doing what they're doing, try to set up some catastrophe,
00:23:28
which I guess we kind of talked about it but the geopolitics I
00:23:31
don't find super interesting, you know, blame it on here on
00:23:34
us, blows Iran out of the out of the picture and then the
00:23:37
Russians and the Chinese can can get together.
00:23:40
Everything is Flowing its kind of straightforward and simple.
00:23:44
And I like that it's, it's allowing the characters to shine
00:23:48
instead of the characters getting hidden by a confusing.
00:23:51
What's going on here plot, you don't have to stop and really
00:23:54
ask yourself when Reese's talking to Vic.
00:23:57
And then he's talking to Poe and then he goes to find Martha,
00:24:00
Stowe. You don't have to stop and ask
00:24:02
yourself. What?
00:24:02
Wait, who, how do they play in? No, you know, the writing is so
00:24:06
cute. Exactly.
00:24:07
You know who these people are and I'll take that back to the
00:24:11
log being so smart to plant the assassination of the stoves.
00:24:16
Because when we come back and hear that Tom Reiss was on the
00:24:20
dock that night and took the long shot to eat those healthy.
00:24:24
Assessing jump in the water, save Martha Stowe, give her
00:24:28
chest compressions again, what Rafe is doing for Reese.
00:24:32
It seems like Tom Reiss was willing to do for the stoves and
00:24:36
maybe that's why I trust this toes even though they were
00:24:39
political family and she was out of the old money.
00:24:43
And he was running for president for some reason, I trust them in
00:24:47
my bones, a lot more because we've seen Tom Reiss with Stowe,
00:24:53
we got that in the prologue where Poe is kind of coming out
00:24:57
of the blue, you know, I'm just kind of like, right?
00:24:59
Wait, I'm supposed to believe because these photos you have
00:25:02
this relationship, but I haven't seen you with them and so I
00:25:06
don't know what to believe about you but the Stowers.
00:25:08
I just everything about how this is crafted linking back to the
00:25:11
prologue. Seeing that Tom was there with
00:25:14
the assassination James's learning that as we the reader
00:25:17
is learning it. Brilliant storytelling.
00:25:20
Excellent. Thriller writing and I think
00:25:23
that's some of the finest of what Jack's been able to do in
00:25:26
terms of Storytelling since I'll say since Savage.
00:25:29
Sun, I really think since Savage, Sun, I haven't seen this
00:25:33
level of elevated storytelling in these books.
00:25:36
Yeah, no, I would definitely agree with that.
00:25:40
Yeah. What?
00:25:40
So I was going to ask you about the whole the motivations of the
00:25:45
Russians. You know why they're doing this
00:25:48
to pull the whole ideas like right there, he's literally
00:25:53
pulling off of the rush the Ukrainian Bayesian and the
00:25:59
potential invasion of Taiwan. So like how do we cripple the
00:26:02
West? Well, we pull them away from
00:26:05
supporting Ukraine, have they're going to have to fight you Iran?
00:26:09
Like what did you Yo, is this, what did you think of that that
00:26:12
whole plot like this idea to do that?
00:26:15
I think it's okay. I think it's good.
00:26:18
I like the way it's explained with this backdrop of History.
00:26:23
Everything checks out, right? It's not like nothing just
00:26:25
something doesn't check out right?
00:26:26
Like oh, they're probably wrong that this side would calculate
00:26:29
that it was this group and therefore responding kind in
00:26:32
this way. And no, I think it all checks
00:26:34
out. It's just that if you maybe
00:26:37
wrote that the part about The Russians willing to blame this
00:26:41
thing on Iran to kind of get the West distracted, so they can
00:26:45
continue their escapades in Eastern Europe.
00:26:48
Meanwhile, while the world's distracted or well, the u.s. is
00:26:51
distracted, China can take Taiwan.
00:26:54
I've really liked all that scenario role-playing if that's
00:26:58
what you can call it, but then I'm kind of like let's get back
00:27:01
to Reese you know, or let's get back to the nooks and what
00:27:04
happened to these rods instead of being told the plot through
00:27:08
Exposition being told. Told it will be shown it right
00:27:11
through the characters. Like remember Memorial Day
00:27:15
what's-his-name sneaking into Miami on the boat, right?
00:27:19
That's how you get the nuke into the country.
00:27:21
Like tell me that, you know, or give me a character on the
00:27:25
ground, putting these pieces together, so it's good.
00:27:29
I like it. I think it all checks.
00:27:31
It's it's interesting. Thought process.
00:27:35
Is it driving the plot enough for me?
00:27:37
I'm not sure yet. We'll see what happens in the
00:27:40
second half so I think it's all good.
00:27:42
What's your read on that? Yeah.
00:27:45
It's kind of saying like, you know, there's other ways that I
00:27:47
would maybe prefer to see some of that stuff that we kind of
00:27:52
touched on before. But, you know, it's, it's
00:27:55
interesting idea of this is you know, how to add a cripple the
00:27:59
United States by taking out our semiconductor production.
00:28:03
So yeah, that too. Yeah, you know.
00:28:05
Interesting. Have you started the Diplomat?
00:28:07
Did you hear about the show? I have with Keri Russell.
00:28:10
Yeah did you watch it? No, not yet.
00:28:13
It's pretty good. And there's kind of a similar
00:28:17
plot I don't want to say too much but there's a false flag
00:28:20
operation which has to do with Iran except it involves the
00:28:24
Brits and so it really stresses the u.s.
00:28:28
British relationship which I mean if you were Russia and or
00:28:33
China that's kind of what you want, you know.
00:28:35
Yeah, sure. If you go fracture, age-old
00:28:38
relationships, you know, centuries old relationships like
00:28:40
that. That's, that's a really big
00:28:45
step. So and then again, it's written
00:28:47
by Deborah Khan, who was one of the writers on The West Wing.
00:28:51
Perhaps my favorite all-time TV show so it has hints of that.
00:28:55
I think it's trying to do it for a modern audience and it gets
00:28:58
some things, right? But it's kind of how I feel
00:29:01
about this book, a false flag operation.
00:29:04
Like oh my goodness, like Ukraine.
00:29:06
And you know, a year or two ago, I would've been so wrapped up in
00:29:09
that or the Trump here is right. If you gave me an ear on
00:29:12
conflict in a thriller right after we took out soleimani or
00:29:16
right after, you know, we bombed their, their, you know, arms
00:29:20
Depot, or they hit us and then we kind of retaliate in kind and
00:29:24
then things simmered, you know, where those tensions were
00:29:27
boiling up. I think a lot of this would have
00:29:29
hit a little harder for me. It's just right now.
00:29:33
We are all kind of distracted by Ukraine and X Y, and Z, and
00:29:36
Jorge Santos, and the, you know, Trump's indictment everything
00:29:39
else. Like I'm kind of distracted by
00:29:42
all those things. It almost feels not modern
00:29:44
anymore, even though I'm sure he put these things in to feel more
00:29:47
current sure. It just shows the world just
00:29:49
man, things are was rapidly, changing, you know, the 24-hour
00:29:53
news cycle, and it's kind of strange that that's affecting me
00:29:56
as a reader of a thriller that just came out yeah, I think that
00:30:00
happens when you when you put like fresh current stuff into
00:30:04
your novel that you know takes is being written months before
00:30:09
it's published, you know and I'm not sure I mean we'll see with
00:30:13
Deadfall With the Ukraine crisis.
00:30:16
I'm not sure how I feel about it.
00:30:18
Just yet, being this present, this current like you have to
00:30:21
bring up Ukraine and work it into a plot.
00:30:23
It was that same hesitancy or ambivalence.
00:30:25
A lot of us felt on. You have to put covid in a plot,
00:30:28
you know, right. What if we just had a thriller
00:30:31
that didn't mention the Ukraine conflict happening, the didn't
00:30:34
mention covid. I think it would be a breath of
00:30:36
fresh air. So, you know, sometimes when
00:30:38
it's stuck in here, in these ways, I'm like, It just takes me
00:30:42
out of the verisimilitude of the story, you know, I don't feel
00:30:45
like I'm in the story anymore because I'm straddling our world
00:30:49
and their world and sometimes I just want to be in their world,
00:30:52
you know, hey, another thing he also puts in covid and like, you
00:30:56
know, puts in, you know, whether it's his two cents or just, you
00:30:59
know, putting words into the Russian sense about what code
00:31:02
is, what the code vaccine mandates and stuff like that is,
00:31:04
you know. So people might like it, people
00:31:06
might love that, you know, seeing that allow me.
00:31:08
Yeah, I mean he has a base. A base to buy these books.
00:31:12
And there are things that they're going to like to read in
00:31:15
this novel. I can see it, you know, it's
00:31:16
marketing, its marketing do. So, yeah, I'm not going to
00:31:21
disagree a sin x over here. Ivy politics is a game, right?
00:31:27
So, I mean, you could tell that he, I think he wants to run for
00:31:32
office. That's our 36.
00:31:35
Car. 36. Is there even an election?
00:31:37
36? Probably not.
00:31:38
I just made it up. Yeah.
00:31:41
What if it was a scar bath or not?
00:31:44
Going to ride? It was Brad door.
00:31:46
Bursts bursts could jack are now.
00:31:49
That is the bait out. That's a debate on nationally.
00:31:53
Televised debate over being a panther or a plotter.
00:31:57
Yeah, there you go. There you go.
00:31:59
On the way they don't do debates anymore on TV.
00:32:01
Never mind. Yeah, not anymore.
00:32:07
Anyways, so Winkler are cayenne pepper up.
00:32:09
The urethra go. Oh yeah, we should have that
00:32:14
debate like Debate, the best kill each of you had
00:32:19
respectively and why? It's better than the others
00:32:22
respective. Kill.
00:32:23
Ya. And then say what, you think the
00:32:25
other person's best kill is that they ever wrote?
00:32:28
Yes. Yes, yes.
00:32:29
That'd be kind of cool. And we know that their their
00:32:32
friends because he puts like James Reeves reading the latest
00:32:36
breadth or novel in the, in a couple of his books.
00:32:40
He's brought it up. So Scott Coleman is cannon in
00:32:43
the James Reese universe. So yeah.
00:32:45
Yeah, it is. So there's there's a couple
00:32:49
things I want to touch on. We have to get into the action.
00:32:52
Obviously I think maybe we will say that for the are very end
00:32:57
but you know this idea of Truth and consequence.
00:33:01
You know that's what his is prologue at the very end of his
00:33:05
preface mentions that this is the themes for the book.
00:33:09
You know. One have you thought that you
00:33:11
know, that has sort of come to fruition and the other thing we
00:33:14
we kind of mentioned a little bit but this idea that It is now
00:33:18
free and what I want to ask you like what how do you think Alice
00:33:22
if any is going to be deployed in the second half so you can
00:33:26
choose which questions you want to answer?
00:33:27
No, dude. I'm glad you brought up that
00:33:29
Alice and I'll get because when that was dropped, I'm like, oh
00:33:34
my God, it's Age of Ultron, you know, yeah, exactly.
00:33:38
Exactly. It was so cool and like, That I
00:33:43
think is what concerns everybody about AI, you know?
00:33:46
Right now we're in the stage of like chat GPT is going to be
00:33:49
used for cheating by students in college.
00:33:51
Okay, sure. Whatever.
00:33:52
No big deal, that's a story. You know, as old as time, people
00:33:56
going to find a way to cheat. It's just this time they're
00:33:58
using chat gbt but to me, the real interesting futurism, if
00:34:05
you will of artificial intelligences what happens when
00:34:08
it becomes sentient, when it makes its own decisions.
00:34:12
Regardless of human input and then ultimately, once it moves
00:34:16
to a stage beyond the devices, we tried to put it into or box
00:34:20
it into Alice was created under this Air Force Base, where was
00:34:25
it in Colorado or whatever? Yeah, what a Lachlan.
00:34:28
Yeah, what happens? Once Alice escapes that and is
00:34:31
able to do it on its own, and when that's dropped that, she
00:34:36
kind of is out there, Alice is free.
00:34:39
That was a cool, like, metaphysical kind of question.
00:34:41
You're They're what does that mean to say an AI is now free?
00:34:45
Katie even asks, like who is this?
00:34:47
Should I be worried. You know, what are you gonna?
00:34:49
Are you gonna propose to her instead of me?
00:34:51
And it's like, it's your calling her a she and he's like, yeah,
00:34:55
it's complicated. You know, it's complicated.
00:34:57
We use that for relationships and now the human language can
00:35:00
say that about human relationships with a I like man
00:35:05
that just what does that mean for human psychology, human
00:35:08
anthropology? I think those are really cool
00:35:10
questions and sow seeds like That and then Katie wondering,
00:35:13
Hmm, this thing is sentient. You're saying I'm like, man,
00:35:16
those are some seeds for Alice to do some pretty crazy, stuff
00:35:19
down the road and be this wild card, you know, like Ultron was
00:35:23
right. Once Jarvis was very different
00:35:25
but then once Jarvis became Ultron, it's like whoa, the
00:35:29
plot. The story is just blown open, I
00:35:31
loved it. What's your take on it?
00:35:35
Yeah, no. I mean, like I play with chat
00:35:38
gbt all the time and we're actually at work trying to
00:35:40
figure out how we can use. Use some of these, you know,
00:35:44
large language learning models, you know to facilitate our work
00:35:50
better. But yeah, you know.
00:35:53
You you dressed perfectly. This idea that the most scary
00:35:58
thing is when you can't turn it off and when it starts to think
00:36:02
for itself, right? And we kind of got a hinted that
00:36:06
she was very smart the last book, and, you know, it's it was
00:36:10
kind of creepy like the oh, what's going to happen?
00:36:14
Yes II. Hope you know, Alice being free
00:36:18
is, is brought up or she comes back in later on.
00:36:22
In in the novel. Because you know I want to see
00:36:26
you know what size, she truly on.
00:36:27
Why did she try to get res out? You know I love the fact that
00:36:33
Vic took had to take three months to corroborate.
00:36:36
The fact that you know because he thought Mill maybe Alice is
00:36:42
lying to me. Right.
00:36:43
You know the fact that we're even talking about.
00:36:46
That is crazy. Yeah no it's very, very crazy.
00:36:49
So did this bot. We created for our marketing.
00:36:52
Military to give us the upper hand is it now screwing us over,
00:36:56
you know, is it feeding us false information and not because some
00:37:01
nefarious actor, AKA Russia or China hacked it and is getting
00:37:05
it to feed us this information, but did it on its own choose to
00:37:09
do that to us? That is just awesome.
00:37:13
Awesome, question to be asking in a thriller novel, Yep.
00:37:18
So what about my other question though?
00:37:19
This this idea of is he hitting the Beats of Truth and
00:37:24
consequence. I think so.
00:37:26
I think the Alice discussion really gets at truth and I think
00:37:30
consequences gets at the time re storyline consequences, you
00:37:37
know, for whom you know, caused by who and for whom, I don't
00:37:43
know yet and I'm very interested.
00:37:45
What are the consequences now that physically, we can say,
00:37:48
Reese, finally open the box and maybe this discussion will
00:37:53
transition into the Boston. See?
00:37:55
Once the the plot line at the bank because I think consequence
00:37:59
is really going to play out in the second half Reese, open the
00:38:04
box. We saw the contents, I want to
00:38:07
ask you, if you were satisfied with what was in that box, but I
00:38:10
think consequences going to come through when we get to see
00:38:14
decisions have to be made. Now that this has come to light
00:38:17
and is out there and whose hands is it in and what choices do
00:38:21
they have to make? So, I think there's a lot to
00:38:23
come, but would you agree that question?
00:38:25
You asked poses real well or fuses real?
00:38:29
Well with what happened in the Boston sequence?
00:38:31
Perhaps the best action sequence so far.
00:38:35
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:36
Because up until that we've only really gotten the the hit on the
00:38:41
house in with po at the pole. Ranch.
00:38:44
Right. Right.
00:38:45
Which was cool but like you know it wasn't you know I guess James
00:38:49
had a had a pretty cool kill like in the river like that
00:38:53
description and you know you can tell the jack is very good at
00:38:56
like describing and then the way Ray Porter read some of these
00:39:00
like you know the action sequences.
00:39:03
It's very cool. But, like, most of the people
00:39:06
were either taken out by Poe with a shotgun or Rafe with this
00:39:09
sniper rifle, or James from long range, but once we get to, you
00:39:17
know, hand to hand combat using his father's, two different
00:39:21
blades, incredible that like he's like, thank you.
00:39:25
Yeah. No.
00:39:25
But but to your question about like what was in the box, It's
00:39:28
both. Awesome, like the fact that we
00:39:32
get these items, you know, his father's past fourths, his
00:39:36
father's money, and a gun, a an old Remington, and then we get
00:39:42
the history of like what the Remington is, right?
00:39:44
Or them do not Remington, are Browning rent and but then we
00:39:48
get his father's original Tomahawk.
00:39:50
Yes. And his original OSS knife, I
00:39:53
forget the name of it and that is what ends up saving him.
00:39:58
Yeah, it was awesome. Now, what What we're really
00:40:02
intrigued about what's in the box.
00:40:03
The documents we don't get. We don't know.
00:40:05
I like that. That was I was almost like, oh,
00:40:09
maybe this is a good point to talk about it because we
00:40:12
actually, I was like, oh maybe we should save the boss and
00:40:14
seeing because we're going to actually find out what's in the
00:40:16
box, but we don't really find out what's in the bottle.
00:40:18
We find it like, what's in the box?
00:40:20
But we don't really find out what's in the box and you see
00:40:22
the toys but we don't see subsequently.
00:40:24
Yeah. And the toys are used.
00:40:27
I mean just to put a bow on that in the friggin cool as Sway when
00:40:31
he first gets a kill in the urinal when he's fighting the
00:40:34
guy in the bathroom and then that one, did he have the
00:40:37
tomahawk? There was that all knife, that
00:40:40
was all my life, I was knife. And then when he gets to the
00:40:42
escalator, the tomahawk the tomahawk comes at the end
00:40:47
towards I think to his neck. Right.
00:40:51
Right. But yes, but then we quickly
00:40:53
transition to him pretending every cleans up pretend.
00:40:56
Everything's okay. Even waves to the guys in the
00:40:58
SUV he's like Oh yeah. The Bodyguard, he's taking a
00:41:02
piss back there and then he goes Ham on these dudes inside the
00:41:06
car in the car. Yeah, I like using only sells
00:41:11
me. Yeah.
00:41:13
That whole sequence is just freaking like how that was
00:41:16
happening and no one's why. Obviously in the The Man in the
00:41:20
black sweater is catching it all on camera and the German
00:41:25
assassin. I'm like how is no one seeing
00:41:28
what's going on? And then he's able to take out
00:41:31
you know the two guys that run up on and then another guy like
00:41:34
he shoots him through the car door and then takes that both
00:41:38
men on Ducatis, like a motorcycle changes.
00:41:41
James Reese is a badass. Yo, I can you imagine Chris
00:41:45
Pratt doing that scene and just taken dudes out in this SUV
00:41:50
driving along on a Ducati one-handed with a tomahawk on
00:41:54
the other hand and he like, Is it what a scrape?
00:41:57
The other dude, with his Tomahawk to pull him down and
00:42:00
then like is able to break hop off the bike and then Gila dude.
00:42:04
No awesome. I think that sequence there's so
00:42:09
many good James re skills but as a sequence of dude it's
00:42:14
top-class it's one of the best action sequences in the whole
00:42:18
series. I'm just going to say it, maybe
00:42:20
not my favorite kills in the series because damn, that's some
00:42:23
crazy shit. But for a total, a Sequence
00:42:26
start to finish from the moment. He engages the dude in the
00:42:30
urinal to the moment. He's on that motorbike.
00:42:33
I'm like, this is just bananas loved every and and I think we
00:42:40
were going to have a different pod if I didn't get to that
00:42:42
scene. Yes.
00:42:43
We were going to have a very different part of you.
00:42:44
Think it's, as you said before, and you pushed me to get there?
00:42:48
I'm so glad because, man, it hit at just the right time because
00:42:52
that Armenian seen at the poe Ranch the poe house, Didn't
00:42:57
quite scratch, my itch of action, it was cool, killed a
00:43:00
couple guys, there's some random gang bangers.
00:43:03
The fact that this action scene happens with the lockbox that he
00:43:08
just opened right, he's got the copies of the documents, right?
00:43:11
He made copies do we do we see what he did with the copies or
00:43:16
they still on his person? You know?
00:43:17
That's that's what we don't. He liked was very secretive
00:43:20
about. Oh, where's the copy machine?
00:43:22
Like and then it kind of cuts. So yeah, and when And into the
00:43:26
urinal, I thought he was going to plant them or something or
00:43:29
like leave them there to then tipped somebody off, but I don't
00:43:32
know, we just go into Street badass mood.
00:43:36
So yeah, but the fact is that action sequence is not only
00:43:40
hitting because it's really cool action.
00:43:43
It's hitting because it's also involving the documents that he
00:43:46
has to get out with. And then it's involving Rafe and
00:43:49
Katie who we just heard this whole thing of how Rafe is going
00:43:52
to give his whole life to defend.
00:43:56
Ames and Katie and what makes him happy?
00:43:59
And it's just woke edge-of-your-seat stuff right
00:44:02
there and it was a moment we needed it.
00:44:05
The first quarter of the book, the exposition was good, but
00:44:09
maybe you're looking for a little more, the second quarter
00:44:12
of this book leading to the halfway point, non-stop constant
00:44:16
edge-of-your-seat, whether it's edge of your seat action or even
00:44:20
just edge of your seat, you know.
00:44:23
Mind Thriller playing messing with your head playing games
00:44:26
with you over. Can you trust po?
00:44:28
Can you trust? Martha Stowe and the fact that
00:44:30
he does tell Martha Stowe, he has the key or he's not able to
00:44:34
hide it. As easily makes me trust her
00:44:37
where, I don't know. Still still on my toes about
00:44:39
pobol, see what happened? And I unfortunately, the whole
00:44:43
trust, no one really cool password, by the way, at the
00:44:47
bank, but I'm wondering about Vic.
00:44:50
I hate to say this. I really, really, yeah, I know,
00:44:54
I had the same Vibe, there's something in my gut that I'm
00:44:58
just like, I don't know, man. This trust no one is almost
00:45:04
hitting me too hard. I've like Chris out interim.
00:45:06
It's just I don't want that to be the case, but Tom Reiss is
00:45:10
trying to warn James of something, and I don't know what
00:45:13
it is and it's and it's scaring me because I should not be
00:45:16
questioning Vic Rodriguez, dudes, the man, he's the
00:45:19
absolute man, yet. Something in me, just, I'm like,
00:45:24
Who do I not trust here. It's got to be somebody.
00:45:28
Yeah it's kind of like the the writing is playing it up.
00:45:31
In the sense that someone we trust is is not trustworthy.
00:45:38
You don't like something. There's going to be like some
00:45:40
sort of bomb shouldn't potentially maybe some sort of
00:45:42
bomb shell of a drop with someone not being trustworthy
00:45:45
yet so no II feel. They agree with you and I I'm
00:45:50
intrigued. Where do you think?
00:45:54
What's the next logical step for James?
00:45:57
After this? I guess he's obviously going to
00:45:59
go meet up with debt with Andy down rapidly.
00:46:03
We've had a name drop like that he's has to go see him.
00:46:07
He mentioned he needs to get these documents translated.
00:46:09
So you have done rep or someone else that the CIA is going is
00:46:12
going to do that for him and he's gonna we're gonna finally
00:46:15
understand what's in that what's truly in the Box besides the
00:46:19
weapons. I like Andy.
00:46:21
Yeah, I like men. He's got a He's got to figure
00:46:24
out you know somehow this this plot with Iran is going is going
00:46:29
to and Israel is going to is gonna align up with James.
00:46:33
We have, they haven't come together yet.
00:46:35
So yeah, I think they're going to have to and I think yeah
00:46:38
those those nuclear rods we got to see something happen because
00:46:42
it's been a while. It's been quite a few chapters.
00:46:45
Yeah, since we shot himself. So yeah.
00:46:51
I don't know. I don't know how that's going to
00:46:52
happen also that I'm a little worried this Levitsky character
00:46:55
keeps failing like yeah the Russians have had a lot of
00:47:00
failures here and I really don't tolerate that.
00:47:04
So I'm kind of nervous that dash cam is going to get some big
00:47:08
dick. Energy, you know, pull out his
00:47:10
inner gromyko and just I don't know he's going to have
00:47:13
something bad planned. But so will its key because he
00:47:16
needs a win, you know, he's like a caged animal right now, he
00:47:19
needs a w. So I think the two of them are
00:47:22
going to have to pull some really bad stuff.
00:47:27
And I mean, they sent so many teams after Reese, at what
00:47:30
point? Do you stop that approach of
00:47:34
just, let's hire, dudes. Send him after him before, like
00:47:38
let's just get the job done. Like, let's take a drastic
00:47:41
measure to kill this guy so I don't know what's coming.
00:47:46
Do you think that German assassin that we met, is this
00:47:50
setting it up for future interaction?
00:47:54
You know because he we get that phone call.
00:47:59
I actually I pulled the but you know, like up were you stay away
00:48:02
from me? I'll stay away from you type
00:48:04
thing. Like, is that just like laying
00:48:06
the some sports shadowing? Or is it?
00:48:08
We're going to get any resolution with him in this
00:48:10
book? Or is he like being set up to be
00:48:13
a player in the future novels? No, but I'd like that phone
00:48:17
call. I almost would have been really
00:48:19
satisfied if they came to that Gentleman's Agreement, the
00:48:22
professional like you, I pulled out of this hit which I know
00:48:25
screws, my reputation but because things went South and I
00:48:28
saw what you did and right, I don't want to get caught up with
00:48:31
you. I don't want to get messed up
00:48:32
with you, and you don't want to get messed up with me because I
00:48:34
got those skills. I just wasn't in the right time
00:48:36
and place to match him. So, how about we just call a
00:48:38
spade? A spade and say, you know,
00:48:40
you're as good as me, I'm as good as you will, leave it at
00:48:41
that, but James doesn't consent. No, he doesn't.
00:48:46
He's like, you took the money, you came after me.
00:48:49
We know James is all about revenge.
00:48:52
When he hangs up the phone and doesn't agree to the deal, I
00:48:55
thought that was going to be it and I would have been completely
00:48:58
fine. If it was the fact that he hangs
00:49:01
up that phone makes me think. One or both sides are going to
00:49:05
have to take steps to rectify this situation and yeah there
00:49:08
might be a collision course coming.
00:49:10
It felt very Grisha Azeroth. Did you give are a little bit?
00:49:14
Yeah that's why I brought it up because it felt it felt to me
00:49:16
that way too. And I like that because I like
00:49:19
about how Grisha is now out there.
00:49:23
You get I guess you can call him a friend of Mitch but it's
00:49:25
really just a friendship born out of mutual.
00:49:28
Respect if you eat right, you want to call that a friendship,
00:49:31
maybe not. But I I think that fulfills you
00:49:35
know, other operators like James and and maybe as good are out
00:49:38
there they could do their own thing.
00:49:41
They won't want to cross paths if they're smart enough and so
00:49:43
they don't and I think that would be a cool way to leave it
00:49:46
but if he comes back, I could be a really cool train wreck also
00:49:50
yeah no totally agree. Let me ask you a question.
00:49:54
Do you have any other predictions of where we're
00:49:57
headed? And I hate to ask this, but is
00:50:00
anybody died? I asked you last time.
00:50:02
Do you think there's anything big coming?
00:50:05
Have you changed your tune on that?
00:50:07
Are you getting the sense? What do you think's in store for
00:50:10
the rest of the book? I wouldn't say it.
00:50:15
Anyone necessarily has to die but I will agree with you in the
00:50:19
sense that It's it's feeling like not everyone is who they
00:50:26
say they are, you know, there's going to be, you know, I could
00:50:30
be wrong but it feels like there's going to be some
00:50:33
bombshell about someone who reads thinks is an enemy and
00:50:40
we're going to learn the truth and the consequences of their
00:50:44
real, you know, motivations. You know, that could be you
00:50:48
could go crazy. You know, obviously the number
00:50:53
one, the least likely candidate would be Katie.
00:50:56
The second least likely candidate would be a Hasting.
00:50:59
You know what? That would be crazy.
00:51:01
You know, of rape is like actually I don't think so but I
00:51:04
am here and just sort of, I'm just sort of saying it out
00:51:07
there. I think more likely.
00:51:09
It's one of the newer characters the Martha Stowe or the PO,
00:51:13
right? What about the president?
00:51:15
What about ulsan? Yeah.
00:51:17
The the current one who took over exactly.
00:51:19
She's kind of been enough. Yet just mentioned twice or a
00:51:22
couple times. Yeah we we got that interesting
00:51:25
chapter with that you know Democratic senator Wright.
00:51:30
Who is part of this Consortium digestive deep state, right?
00:51:35
Yeah like you know I who is actually involved with him, you
00:51:40
know is is Vic, is Vic. One of the you know people
00:51:44
involved with that and or Alice Or Alice is Alice part of that,
00:51:50
you know, working for them and she had to get res out because
00:51:55
he was the only one who could get those documents.
00:51:58
That's right. Exist.
00:52:00
Did Alice want the documents like the Russians?
00:52:03
I, we know the Russians want the documents, but why, you know,
00:52:06
why does it matter? Because there's a, there's a
00:52:09
Russian involved with the, with the Deep State, you know,
00:52:13
because they they're actually buddy-buddy exactly.
00:52:16
Are they pulling? Things because we thought this
00:52:18
list was just a Revenge list of people.
00:52:20
Tom, sure. Tom had as you know informants
00:52:23
or assets or people who have turned or people who sold
00:52:26
Secrets or people who double-crossed him.
00:52:29
I thought it was a list of people or locations where The
00:52:36
Russians had taken American Americans.
00:52:40
There is that angle? I forgot about that.
00:52:42
Yeah, because they meant to even mention that, you know, but it
00:52:45
but it's actually a way more than that, right?
00:52:48
And if you're bringing in Tom, Reiss to the plot, it makes
00:52:50
sense that something has to be tied heavily to the Vietnam era
00:52:54
and that was the connection, right?
00:52:56
Tom Reiss was investigating with the stoves exposing Russians,
00:53:01
capturing service members taking them back to Soviet.
00:53:05
Orion. Keeping them as prisoners.
00:53:07
You know, interrogating them. And, yeah, he was about to
00:53:10
expose that. I wonder though is that I feel
00:53:13
like sure, huge bombshell, right?
00:53:15
Big historical nugget right there.
00:53:17
Is it enough, though? I give that is just if that's
00:53:21
all there is, is that enough to make it this big deal to have
00:53:25
the current svr and FSB heads, so desperately hunting down
00:53:29
James There's got to be some bigger connection to the
00:53:33
president of the present. Then just there's this
00:53:36
historical tidbit of the Russians were doing really bad
00:53:39
things to undermine our efforts in Vietnam.
00:53:41
Yeah, it was called the Cold War, bro.
00:53:43
Like, is that enough for you? I don't know if it's enough
00:53:46
unless there's a deeper connection.
00:53:49
I think it's information about the Consortium, the Deep State.
00:53:54
Like it's not names, maybe not name a current names because
00:53:59
obviously, this is from way back.
00:54:00
But like, names that can be tied to people today, you know?
00:54:05
About that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think you're right.
00:54:09
I think that's it. And not, not just American.
00:54:12
But like the fact that while we were fighting the, you know, in
00:54:16
the Cold War, we were actually secretly talking to people in
00:54:19
Russia and in China and stuff like that.
00:54:21
So maybe something that can jeopardize this idea of the
00:54:24
China Russian, Relationship and them is the next wave of global
00:54:29
dominance. Like right now I could put that
00:54:31
in Jeopardy. Yeah.
00:54:34
Well dude like Jack says we love his author notes, the novel you
00:54:38
hold in, your hands is one of Truth and Consequences how much
00:54:41
of what follows is fiction and how much is truth?
00:54:44
You will know when you turn the final page, enjoy the journey
00:54:47
time is ticking. Time is ticking.
00:54:50
We'll turn that final page in a week or so and you will hear
00:54:54
from us our hot take and how well, we enjoyed the journey.
00:54:58
Chris, I'm very much enjoying the first half of our journey.
00:55:01
Yes, me too. No, I am really digging this
00:55:04
book so can't wait to finish it. Yep, let me go finish it right
00:55:08
after the spot. Let's go.
00:55:10
Maybe not today but definitely tomorrow.
00:55:15
All right, we need to thank our patrons are special operator.
00:55:19
Sherry f are special agents Darryl.
00:55:21
Kevin George met Dawn. Dennis piggy, Catherine Ray
00:55:24
Bridget Jeff and Mark Please Subscribe rate and review using
00:55:28
your favorite podcast and platform.
00:55:29
You can find this at the robot.com or on Twitter and
00:55:32
Instagram after the podcast. and as always, Trust, no one trust.
00:55:40
No one. You weren't going to go with
00:55:42
you. No man.
00:55:42
Buns, and sexy haircuts, man, bun, fun.
00:55:50
Dressing. And as always, you know, it's a
00:55:55
3 bot bottle wine night, maybe three bottle of bourbon
00:56:02
podcasting night and hopefully where they talk about the that
00:56:09
was just round one or a quarter one.
00:56:11
We're going very we have the whole game ahead of us was just
00:56:14
handed halftime or just the end of the first quarter that was
00:56:19
funny. Was the first mile of a marathon
00:56:22
who has that much sex. I jesus a journey of a Thousand
00:56:28
Miles starts with one step, I guess when your pent-up or three
00:56:32
months, you know, you gotta You got to release a little bit, you
00:56:36
know. Gotta let loose, yo, Jack, let
00:56:38
loose with his fingers on the keyboard and that's seen whoa
00:56:42
that was close. Whoa, Brad Thor level of sex
00:56:46
going on right there because he writes some spicy scenes he does
00:56:50
he does there's some of the vins never did and Kyle Kyle sort of
00:56:53
Strays away from it to ya. But at one point I was like my
00:56:58
reading the right book. Is this, a did I get a softer
00:57:01
that erotica section, you know? Yeah, when things were put on
00:57:06
hold in in the blood between Katie and race, you know that
00:57:10
that night they were supposed to have together.
00:57:12
Yeah this made up for it. Oh yeah, they made up for lost
00:57:16
ground right there and then some and then some