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00:00:15
Hey guys, I'm Chris and Mike and welcome back to this week's No
00:00:20
Limits. The Thriller podcast what's this
00:00:23
week, like now much here, but I know a lot for you.
00:00:27
Congrats on the new house. Not a new kid, just Oh everyone
00:00:30
knows but a new house. Yeah yeah.
00:00:33
So I guess it's been a little while since I've been on the Pod
00:00:36
but yeah, I bought a house and trying to fix it up.
00:00:40
Try to get in before Christmas. So I know we've been through a
00:00:43
little bit lacking a little, we haven't had a pod for two weeks
00:00:45
but you know, we have this, we have a great great pot for you
00:00:50
today. And next week, you know, this
00:00:53
had to be broken up into two parts at least and we're going
00:00:57
to commit in the new year. You know, this is this is going
00:00:59
to Through the end of the year but in the new year.
00:01:01
Come back January. We're going to come back hard.
00:01:03
I'm going to be focused bringing to you at least four, four pods
00:01:07
a month. I'm going to commit to that like
00:01:08
you're gonna have to edit at least me four times in a month.
00:01:11
Whoo by lat. That's two bucks, right?
00:01:15
That's one Scott harvest book and one thread something else.
00:01:19
Oh yeah, yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna do
00:01:21
it. We're gonna do it.
00:01:21
We're gonna get back back on track.
00:01:23
We're going to do it. And speaking of getting, on
00:01:25
track the last time you heard from us here on no limits.
00:01:30
We had Ryan Stack on, or was that the Metro a podcast?
00:01:34
Do I post it here? You know, you posted on both but
00:01:36
if you if you if we didn't you should go check it out on the
00:01:39
pitch or a podcast for sure. Yeah, check it out over there.
00:01:41
So the Mitch rap podcast has great things going on.
00:01:44
And as I just mentioned, the Scott Horvath podcast, our
00:01:47
season 2, we are chugging along with our sixth, breadth or book.
00:01:52
Is that, right? Yeah, they could be done seven,
00:01:54
but were they on on the? We because we went for we did
00:01:58
Rising tiger. Yeah.
00:02:00
Right? So we're going back to the
00:02:01
original order which means the first commandment and now the
00:02:07
last Patriot that's the next what we're going to do in
00:02:09
January. Yep.
00:02:10
Yeah so be sure to check out no limits the Thriller podcast and
00:02:13
the Mitch rap podcast for even more of our content but let's
00:02:17
not get ahead of ourselves, it is Jack car season but today we
00:02:22
round out the fifth book. We're going to cover the third
00:02:25
one in the series. And Chris, this is a big one,
00:02:28
Savage, son. Yep.
00:02:30
Yep. Very very good book.
00:02:32
You're going to when you listen to it you're going to find that
00:02:35
it ranks pretty high on my list. It's a very good book.
00:02:38
I was super excited about this one and I think overall it's I
00:02:42
think most fans favorite and Jack's favorite too.
00:02:46
Right. Probably the one he enjoys
00:02:48
talking about the most on interviews and when he does the
00:02:52
media tour, I feel like this is the Crux of the series perfectly
00:02:58
written book. I can't say they have it.
00:03:00
Anymore. You know, something came to me,
00:03:02
we were talking with Tyler who we brought on for this one.
00:03:06
What do you think about covering the most dangerous game?
00:03:08
We do a quick 15, 20 minutes. Our first short story on
00:03:12
Thriller pod. That's a good idea.
00:03:14
Yeah, because I reread it last night.
00:03:17
Getting ready for this today, and there's a lot to talk about
00:03:20
and you can see the inspiration. And I remember reading it,
00:03:23
middle school as you'll hear us talk about, but I'd like to dig
00:03:27
into that for a little while, that'd be a fun exercise.
00:03:30
All right, I'll, uh, I'll pick out my short story Anthology
00:03:33
from high school and I'll reread it because I think we had to
00:03:36
read it for my senior short, story course, along with the
00:03:40
lottery, like you said, on the pot.
00:03:43
Yeah, then we'll do a little tender 15 minutes.
00:03:47
Nice. Well, enjoy this talk of savage,
00:03:49
sun with Tyler Brewer, Jack car superfan about Savage son.
00:03:58
All right, guys. Today we welcome a good friend
00:04:00
of the Pod. Is this your third time on the
00:04:03
podcast? The talk Jack car.
00:04:06
Yes sir. Yep.
00:04:07
Welcome third time on. Thank you.
00:04:10
We haven't have any 3p. Guess it's like, it's like a
00:04:13
little Club there. Yeah, for you you Chris?
00:04:16
Hello, Chris, how these riddles? Three times, I think so.
00:04:19
Yeah, I think so. I think it was the first to
00:04:20
three-peat Kyle Mills, three times, three times Kyle.
00:04:24
Yep, Anderson Wilson. How many times has Jack been on
00:04:28
once or twice? Once okay, I thought we had a we
00:04:32
had him twice. We have a and say I'm twice, I
00:04:34
think you guys had him twice. Yeah, we had a once before the
00:04:37
before the show and then once after the show, right?
00:04:39
Because we had them for In The Blood also.
00:04:41
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
00:04:43
The second one was harder to get.
00:04:44
That's what I'm stuck in. Yeah.
00:04:46
He was lazy with the show, real strict.
00:04:48
I went the first time. He's like, just, let's talk
00:04:50
like, we had them to talk Vince Flynn.
00:04:52
Yeah. The first time was Vince Flynn.
00:04:54
The second time was the show. That's right.
00:04:56
Well today, what are we covering Chris?
00:04:59
Today the we've teased it for a long time.
00:05:03
We are talking Savage, sun and boy, I love this book.
00:05:08
Tyler. What?
00:05:09
Pre-production tiles? Kyle said, coyotes a flip Tyler
00:05:14
said this was his favorite book of the series and I think I have
00:05:17
to compare with him. This is a very good book and
00:05:23
read from the gate. We get the I love how as well.
00:05:26
Love how Jack does the little, you know, What is it called
00:05:30
prologue. Like a his notes from the
00:05:32
author? Author's, note.
00:05:34
Yeah. And you know talking about the
00:05:37
most dangerous game and how that was his, you know he wanted to
00:05:41
do that and originally this was supposed to be the introduction
00:05:44
of James recently in this story, but he thought that you.
00:05:47
All right? I can't do that and I think that
00:05:50
was a good choice. I'm interested to get your guys
00:05:52
take on it. But boy, did I love Savage son.
00:05:58
Yeah, I think I think for him to like that and that's like his
00:06:02
favorite short story as a kid and that impacted him a lot.
00:06:05
I think, I know he wanted to do it first but I mean he, he
00:06:09
claims that he couldn't just throw readers into this
00:06:12
character. He had to like develop the
00:06:14
character of her a couple books prior, which I think was a
00:06:17
definitely a good move because right now it's pretty much smack
00:06:21
dab in the middle of his series and it's I think it's still the
00:06:24
best in the series, but Chris correct me if I'm wrong but you
00:06:29
still have one more in the series to read, right?
00:06:31
I do and I'm a little I don't want to read it because Mike's
00:06:34
already already crafted it so much I it's it's good.
00:06:40
It's good, it's good. I would put it at the bottom of
00:06:42
my list on the jack our favorite but it's still a good novel.
00:06:46
It's a good thriller novel. I was a little tired of the
00:06:49
pandemic literature when I first picked it up so maybe I was a
00:06:54
little weary from from you know lethal agent.
00:06:57
Yeah, all these others I could see reading it like 2020 2021
00:07:01
and being like, all right, I'm tired of this topic but the, the
00:07:06
content and of itself is pretty good and it's pretty different
00:07:09
compared to the other four. Yeah, right.
00:07:12
I think that threw me for a loop.
00:07:14
It was really, really different coming off a Savage Sun.
00:07:17
Yeah. And then combine that with the
00:07:19
pandemic and just yeah it threw me for a loop so I think What do
00:07:23
you say January February? Maybe we'll cover that one and
00:07:26
we'll get the devil's hand out and we'll have finish the whole
00:07:28
series. So I think a reread is going to
00:07:30
be necessary for me, I mean, you know where completion is on the
00:07:33
spot so like I can't, I can't like let it let that hang out
00:07:37
there now dumb, and one of them you guys brought this up, I
00:07:41
think so terminal list was very different from both True,
00:07:45
Believer and Savage. Then I feel like True Believer
00:07:47
in Savage Sun where the most similar like very different
00:07:50
stories but to me, I can tell he's like getting tuned into his
00:07:54
stride of his writing and like those two together.
00:07:58
I think are my are like 12 for me.
00:08:01
Savage thought I think we'll see what the scorecard said by
00:08:03
thinks Savage Sun. Maybe he can out, um, probably
00:08:07
get a True Believer but yeah, terminal list is is different.
00:08:10
Would you guys agree with that? Yeah, I think terminal list is
00:08:14
very shocking. The first time you read it and
00:08:17
these other ones you kind of know what to expect, like
00:08:21
terminal list is probably. Second favorite just because of
00:08:23
how much it impacted me and got me into like, Thriller Thriller
00:08:26
novels in general. But once you read terminal list,
00:08:30
once you kind of know what's in general, what what you're what
00:08:35
Jack cars capable of writing. So you kind of know what's
00:08:39
coming in a way of at least, what level of violence and
00:08:43
revenge and things like that. I think terminal list is very
00:08:46
impactful just because of the first, the first read pretty
00:08:49
much, right? Yeah, I'll agree.
00:08:52
Three-eyed and I have to say terminal list, you get a sense
00:08:56
of who this character is but it changes him so much and True
00:09:01
Believer. Is that transformation?
00:09:03
And I feel like Savage sun is the completion of that
00:09:06
transformation where we're seeing the character come out.
00:09:09
The other side where True Believer, it was a journey.
00:09:12
The whole way through Reese had to like Jack wrote, you discover
00:09:17
a new life and the new a new lease on life and I feel like
00:09:20
Savage Sun were all in on that now.
00:09:22
He's just ready to rip and combine that with meeting the
00:09:26
Hastings Clan, which Jesus has been hinted at for forever and
00:09:30
we've only really met Uncle Hastings.
00:09:32
Yeah. I mean, now we're getting
00:09:34
Caroline. Jonathan Rafe.
00:09:36
I couldn't believe these were rafe's first scenes and first
00:09:38
like real words and dialogue besides an appearance in the
00:09:41
background a True Believer yet I feel like I know Rafe so well.
00:09:45
Yeah yeah that whole family and that whole environment feels so
00:09:50
flushed out and lived in In and real that I think that helps
00:09:55
sell the first half of the novel for short.
00:09:59
Yep. Not to mention one of the
00:10:01
absolute best performances by any Thriller character ever in
00:10:06
Caroline Hastings. Yeah, for sure.
00:10:07
Just go and fucking apeshit to defend her home.
00:10:11
And I can't wait to get into that one of my buddies.
00:10:13
John just started reading this, and he's at this point in the
00:10:16
series and he had made a good point.
00:10:19
I wanted to bring up that Jack can be poetic With his writing
00:10:23
sometimes, and he had this little quote, says, Katie's eyes
00:10:26
focused on a drop of rain as it, hit the glass and trickled down
00:10:29
the pain weaving, its way among its relatives.
00:10:32
All born of the same gray clouds.
00:10:35
I was like, that's probably like the most poetic writing.
00:10:38
He's done at least at this point in the series, but any poetic
00:10:42
writing, he does is always on something like rain or
00:10:44
something. That's not Story related.
00:10:47
Yeah. I like how he Taps into
00:10:49
especially here. I guess a little bit of True
00:10:51
Believer as well in terms of like describing the African
00:10:56
landscape in the bush but here we get a real sense of like you
00:11:00
know Montana and yeah. Mountains and the compound and
00:11:06
you know obviously I love how he does another name job to Brad
00:11:11
Thor. What a Katie gets off and she's
00:11:12
reading what was the backlash, she's reading.
00:11:17
Backlash. Right?
00:11:19
You know, he tapping into his inner breadth or in terms of leg
00:11:23
out the setting but I look like, I just felt lived in and like I
00:11:27
wanted to be there. I could just spend more time in
00:11:30
Montana, right? Well I don't want to skip like
00:11:33
too far ahead, but I wanted to spend time in the six months
00:11:38
were freaking James Reese is in Siberia.
00:11:40
Like it shocked me when they said he was there for six
00:11:43
months. I was like you're going to put
00:11:44
that all in an epilogue and not even Talk about it.
00:11:49
Yo, this is Ghost that's coming in and out like that was sick.
00:11:52
That was fucking bad ass. Speaking of poetry, though, I
00:11:55
think that's short, passage that, that little tiny passage
00:11:58
about him going across Siberia as a specter, as a ghost.
00:12:01
Yeah. And how the native people in the
00:12:03
Indigenous groups respond to him, and he leaves gift for
00:12:06
them, but then he steals their snowmobile.
00:12:08
Like I think that might be Jack's finest writing in a
00:12:13
poetic sense in a true, like literature sense.
00:12:16
Not his best action, thriller writing.
00:12:18
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:19
But that short passage it hits so hard and it could be like a
00:12:22
standalone poem you know like Robert Frost or something.
00:12:26
I think that's election shows Jack skill and just rounds out
00:12:31
who he is, as an author, that's more and is danger at most
00:12:34
dangerous game connections. Yeah.
00:12:35
Round him out more than just an action, thriller writer with
00:12:39
badass shoot-'em-up scenes. It's stuff like your quote,
00:12:42
Tyler. And and that one you mentioned
00:12:44
Chris and Siberia that just I think is why he stormed onto the
00:12:48
scene. Part of its James Reese and this
00:12:51
Revenge story and we can connect to it, but it's elevated hitting
00:12:55
at another sense of literature that not every Thriller writer
00:12:58
gets to one quick thing about Siberia and then we'll get back
00:13:03
in correct order. There's a good little surprise
00:13:07
right there. I was listening to it again
00:13:10
today and he talks about how he gripped.
00:13:13
His ancient weapon will like, every other time that line is
00:13:16
used. It's the, it's the Winkler
00:13:17
tomahawk. And this time it was a
00:13:19
traditional bow, right? Like you don't expect, he
00:13:23
doesn't say it's about. He just says ancient weapon.
00:13:25
And next line is that somebody died by getting an arrow to the
00:13:28
head. You're like, oh shit, he has a
00:13:29
bow, he has the will get into who's Bow.
00:13:33
It is. But yeah, I like how it's like a
00:13:36
little bit surprising. He doesn't quite say, like he
00:13:39
has a bow. You think it's the tomahawk at
00:13:42
first, but it's good writing, she's good.
00:13:44
It's good storytelling. So speaking of poetry, And good
00:13:49
storytelling, you know, Chris how I like to share my thoughts
00:13:52
on these books before we get into it, why don't I kick us off
00:13:55
with a limerick? And you know, I tried to channel
00:13:58
my inner Jack. You know, poetic sense here.
00:14:03
The Trap, the stock and the kill.
00:14:07
Tis blood that Reese and Rafe shall spill time for the hunt.
00:14:12
Jacques of he'll confront in the most dangerous game.
00:14:16
What a thrill. You goat is.
00:14:19
That's first time you used his in delivering them like both of
00:14:23
you read The Most Dangerous Game.
00:14:25
Yes, I have a actually a hard copy of it.
00:14:27
That's kind of hard to find. Oh that's cool.
00:14:31
I read it, Middle School. Definitely remember, reading it
00:14:33
as a kid actually can picture. It was a sign.
00:14:36
I don't remember anything else about this teacher, but the
00:14:39
seventh grade English teacher assigned it and I remember
00:14:41
reading it on my porch. And I loved it.
00:14:44
We read that and we read the lottery in the same class and I
00:14:47
was like, it was probably the only time I've enjoyed in ela
00:14:50
class and and then I picked it up again last night because I
00:14:53
wanted a refresher. And dude, it's, it's just so
00:14:56
good. I was trying to remember.
00:14:58
I thought it was 1923 but it's night.
00:14:59
It was released in. Mary of 1924 by Richard Connell,
00:15:03
originally published under a different name, but I think it
00:15:06
was originally released in a newspaper.
00:15:09
Yes, unlike the top quarter of a newspaper page and then from
00:15:13
there, it really took off and they actually filmed the black
00:15:16
and white movie based on on Richard Connells, original
00:15:20
works. And what's go about the move
00:15:21
black and white movies. They use the same set from the
00:15:24
original black and white King Kong.
00:15:26
So it's that island and people are just being hunted.
00:15:29
So they like, what I set up in film, At the same time and it's
00:15:32
set in like Brazil or something. So it's kind of cool.
00:15:35
How Jack was inspired by that. Yeah but it was a very tropical
00:15:38
setting in an island off the Brazilian Coast.
00:15:40
Yes and he's doing the Siberia stuff and Kamchatka Peninsula
00:15:43
and you know that's what I think inspiration is you don't copy
00:15:48
one to one but you use something to inspire you to do it your own
00:15:53
way. And yeah, I think that's done so
00:15:55
perfectly. Yeah.
00:15:56
I like I like many Island in general.
00:15:59
I like, I don't know why but I like the name.
00:16:01
Yeah, I don't know why, but I just like to lay out and how it
00:16:04
you learn about it, through the last note, the third Act of the
00:16:09
novel, it's just a cool setting. Speaking of the acts so that
00:16:14
made its way into the Limerick. The Trap is part one, the stock
00:16:18
is part 2 and the kill is part 3.
00:16:21
So what do you think of the Trap starting out meeting?
00:16:24
I guess a whole cast of characters Oliver gray is
00:16:27
brought back in the Central African Republic stuff and You
00:16:31
know, both Papa zharkov and zhirkov, Junior, what do you
00:16:35
think about this cast of villains?
00:16:36
That's kind of being set up to lay the trap for Reese in the
00:16:39
first like third of this book. I have to say this is probably
00:16:43
like my I don't know I gotta say least favorite part but just I
00:16:46
was a little like confused, is it, it sort of throwing a lot at
00:16:50
you and, you know, I liked when we were back with James, ER, e
00:16:55
with Reese but then like who's is Russian guy our but then we
00:16:58
get like introduced to a couple characters that or any like we
00:17:02
get introduced, the Russian mafia, we get introduced to the
00:17:04
rough and Russian mafia his son, Alexander Alex.
00:17:08
Oh Xander. Yeah.
00:17:09
Alexander Janna is the bed with sun and I've on zharkov the
00:17:14
other dad. So that's one of the downfalls
00:17:16
of listening to these books is I, I do struggle with, you know,
00:17:20
the names. But anyways, the thing that
00:17:22
helps though, with listening to them is that he that he Ray
00:17:25
Porter does voices. So helps me differentiate into a
00:17:28
little bit. Oh, he's really slow to.
00:17:30
He's very methodical. I will have to say Ray Porter.
00:17:33
Fucking killed it. Yeah.
00:17:35
Like he is really, I don't know. I would listen to Him read the
00:17:39
newspaper to me. He's very good.
00:17:41
Well, I've listened and read the book three times all separately,
00:17:45
over the, okay, what's your take then on the audiobooks verse
00:17:49
the, in print II, mean I have a really long commute.
00:17:52
So I prefer for I prefer the audio books, but it's because of
00:17:55
Ray Porter, if? Right border probably wasn't
00:17:57
reading them. Then I don't know if I'd feel
00:17:59
the same way, right? But he just helps me paint a
00:18:01
picture in my head a little bit better and these these books are
00:18:06
very easily transferable. And Movie scenes and first and
00:18:10
second and third acts of films. So being that that's like
00:18:13
something I really enjoy. It's kind of what I put it into
00:18:16
eventually. You can follow along that way.
00:18:19
Yep. Yeah.
00:18:20
Like, I even imagine like camera angles and stuff of scenes when
00:18:23
raised reading for some reason. That's, that's interesting.
00:18:26
Very cinematic approach. I guess she's back to the
00:18:29
beginning. Yeah, I was like a little.
00:18:34
It was jumping around a lot, but then once he's settled in, like,
00:18:37
then that I was like, I was locked, and I didn't stop
00:18:40
listening. It helped that I'm a paid
00:18:42
currently painting. My house.
00:18:43
I bought it. So, I crushed this in literally
00:18:48
one. One and a half days.
00:18:49
I started last night again, ice because I had started it.
00:18:53
We were supposed to do is POD like a while ago and then I
00:18:56
wanted to fully refresh myself with it again and I crushed it
00:19:02
was. That's how, you know, I couldn't
00:19:04
put it down. I feel like the, I feel like the
00:19:06
first, like, maybe like five chapters maybe was longer, and
00:19:10
maybe he might have had to trim it up a little bit, but it might
00:19:14
get a little bogged when Oliver gray is essentially trying to
00:19:20
get hired by Yvonne zharkov, but he just wants to use his Empire
00:19:26
to basically hunt down Reese because he knows Reese will kill
00:19:29
him from the events of True Believers.
00:19:31
Yeah. And killing his father and and
00:19:33
working for what was the other Russian guy dried off and drain
00:19:36
off? Yeah.
00:19:37
And drain of recruited Gray from what I recall.
00:19:40
Right? That was on the beach.
00:19:41
Yeah. With the cameras.
00:19:42
Yes. Yeah.
00:19:44
And then so gray is being really rounded out as a weasel because
00:19:48
he's doing this quid pro quo with with zhirkov.
00:19:51
So, you're basically going to mess around with the Russian mob
00:19:55
boss at the highest level for a personal Revenge story because
00:20:00
he doesn't want to look over her shoulder.
00:20:01
Elders, whole life. Yeah, and he thinks he's smart
00:20:03
enough to play that and I don't get the sense that he is.
00:20:08
And so, you know, he's going to fail.
00:20:11
But then at the same time, you kind of just hate him.
00:20:13
Personally. What do you think about Jack
00:20:15
doing all this like, sexual stuff with Svetlana?
00:20:19
Yeah, that made who ultimately is one of jerk-offs Pies?
00:20:23
How do you feel that Oliver gray was portrayed?
00:20:25
I feel like he really makes him a weasel and may seem like
00:20:29
dislikable on purpose. There's always like somebody you
00:20:35
hate especially in films just because of the way they look
00:20:37
their casted, very purposefully to look, slimy and distrustful
00:20:43
and like that's how he is written.
00:20:44
And then like all of the sexual stuff, I think that really
00:20:47
rounds out that maybe he has just been a bad guy, his whole
00:20:52
life and like just, you know, stumbled into his role with the
00:20:57
Central Intelligence Agency, due to his background of being a
00:21:01
Russian. An immigrant basically, right?
00:21:04
But they definitely make him just an absolute slimeball and
00:21:07
dislike dislike a bull from like the gecko which I mean from True
00:21:11
Believer. You're already disliked him and
00:21:13
then from the way, he weasels his way into the mafia with
00:21:16
zharkov is just multiplies that I know you said it gets bogged
00:21:21
down right there a little bit but I kind of like whenever he
00:21:25
is like getting the suits from zhirkov and he taught basically
00:21:28
convinces and talk zharkov into taking him in.
00:21:31
In, but it's revealed. I think that zhirkov was in
00:21:35
charge of running and instructing Oliver's.
00:21:39
Recruiter basically so like it was like shark of was like the
00:21:43
man behind the curtain and True Believer almost.
00:21:45
Yeah that's true. Yeah so great to me reminds me
00:21:50
of Of insulin character. In Peter Cameron, this guy who
00:21:56
thinks he's the professor actually thinks he's very smart
00:22:02
things. He has one up on everybody but
00:22:05
in actuality he he you know, could make it as a field
00:22:09
officer. So he got stuck in the desk.
00:22:12
He has like Daddy Issues, mommy issues, impotence issues and
00:22:18
because of that, he's very insecure.
00:22:21
So You know, obviously Jack plays up on that throughout the
00:22:25
novel and really makes you, you know, just like them and the in
00:22:30
the fact that, you know, that he obviously played a role in The
00:22:33
Killing of reasons. Father formation, just like
00:22:38
despise me for more and at the very end and I guess I'm jumping
00:22:41
ahead again. At first I was like holy shit
00:22:45
James is really going to let him live.
00:22:47
Like I was like, no I was I was, I was almost like, I don't like
00:22:50
this Book, Like No. And then What are, you know, he
00:22:54
hasn't killing of like, which is unlike fuck.
00:22:56
Yeah, like let's do it, but he was being a weasel there too
00:23:00
because he was like, well I might get out of the situation.
00:23:02
Yeah, Reese might think I'm valuable to hunt down.
00:23:05
These are Catan and he's like nope by like yeah.
00:23:09
So I'll ask you later but remind me to bring up Catan at the very
00:23:14
end but yeah there's there's a couple of in the blood
00:23:17
connections and we can't say too much but I think something I was
00:23:20
originally maybe. Be thought was lacking in Savage
00:23:23
sun on my first read. Definitely definitely comes full
00:23:27
circle, like two books later. So I think Jack's playing the
00:23:30
long game. Yeah.
00:23:31
And even when we get to the epilogue, we'll talk about the
00:23:33
long game being played. And while we're on Oliver gray.
00:23:36
I mean, the watch, even the Rolex Submariner is has been
00:23:39
this totem, you know, hanging over everything and well, one
00:23:43
Reese finally gets it back in the end.
00:23:44
Spoiler alert. But it was gray, was wearing it
00:23:47
as a token from hiring that Landry guide his father.
00:23:51
It's really coming. Circle.
00:23:52
And I think Jack is, I think this is a benefit of his
00:23:56
outlining. He's always talked about being a
00:23:58
plotter instead of a pan sir yeah where he is thinking 23
00:24:02
books ahead and knows where these characters and this
00:24:04
universe is headed and I think that pays off when all of these
00:24:08
nuggets and seeds a book or two earlier pay off later.
00:24:11
So I think Savage sun is a better book, having read in the
00:24:16
blood, if that sounds, if that makes any sense.
00:24:18
Yeah, absolutely. I actually agree.
00:24:20
I think that that At this felt like something was lacking a
00:24:24
little bit and then even even through like devil's hand,
00:24:27
right? You're like, man, I'd right.
00:24:28
I just like want that that payoff and Zack.
00:24:31
Eventually get it. Yes, I was going to ask you, we
00:24:36
can just talk about it now. So I have read in the blood,
00:24:40
haven't read devil's hand. And now I've read some sun so I
00:24:44
can see how he doesn't talk about any of this stuff and
00:24:47
devil's hand at all. It's on the back burner a little
00:24:51
bit. Would you agree?
00:24:52
Yeah, so something that you'll notice in each book is the, the
00:24:56
publisher. Once each book to be able to be
00:24:58
picked up and read without reading the other ones.
00:25:00
So, you'll see A Brief Review towards the very beginning of
00:25:05
each book where, you know, they'll say, well, James is like
00:25:09
in this book, James got a surgery to remove a brain tumor
00:25:12
that he got from an experimental drug that made him take revenge
00:25:16
from coast to coast. So there's always these little,
00:25:19
these little, like up there are updates.
00:25:21
They're like small summaries of past events and so you'll see
00:25:24
stuff like that. But and like, I believe, you
00:25:28
know, they mention Siberia later on as well.
00:25:31
But yeah, you'll see like little summaries but events from book
00:25:35
to book aren't really detailed and carried over.
00:25:39
Unless there are it unless they're like reviewed.
00:25:42
And I feel like the devil's hand though, Is a very intentional.
00:25:48
I'm going to zoom in on America and the American political
00:25:51
system and even military in response to something like
00:25:54
covid-19. And even I'm going to purposely
00:25:57
set this in a post-911 and bring up 911 very centrally in that
00:26:02
book. And so it really just has a
00:26:04
different feel and tone. And even theme.
00:26:08
Then this series, I almost wish it was like a spin-off story in
00:26:12
a sense and maybe I'm missing the connective tissue.
00:26:14
It's there, but I didn't see it on my first read, but I feel
00:26:17
like, can you imagine if Savage son was three in the blood was
00:26:21
for? No?
00:26:22
And I don't think you can do that, it's just like you can't
00:26:25
like, True, True Believer, even though it's not my favorite,
00:26:27
it's probably the most important in the series because you can't
00:26:29
read the next four books without any, without True Believer.
00:26:32
But it does focus in on like, in Apple's hand focuses in on the
00:26:39
u.s. quite a bit and it kind of makes you forget some of these
00:26:43
events a little bit except for the thing in in the epilogue of
00:26:47
this. That's true right?
00:26:49
But Chris this is not a spoiler but maybe something to get you
00:26:52
excited for. The only book you haven't read
00:26:54
in the series. Is that someone important knows
00:26:58
that Reese is good at at Crossing names off of lists, and
00:27:01
he has a list for him and yeah, that's more or less.
00:27:05
Yeah, let's go. Back to the list that works so
00:27:08
well and book I'd have to say this is not the only time we've
00:27:12
recently come up where a later book can elevate a previous book
00:27:16
and so we were talking about the latest breadth or novel we did.
00:27:23
That and that was a case where it's supremely elevated.
00:27:26
A book that we were down on. Like, if I had never read in the
00:27:29
blood, I wouldn't be down in this book but now that I have
00:27:31
read in the blood, I'm even higher on this book because I
00:27:34
know like how it's gonna is going to cash out, right?
00:27:37
And I like when all there's can do that when they can, you know,
00:27:41
Elevate their work in a sense by giving us those payoffs and like
00:27:46
you said, Mike my I think by being someone who thinks about a
00:27:52
couple stories down the road and not just singular Focus because
00:27:55
I feel like You know week I'll just bring it back to like Mitch
00:27:59
rap. It's very much been in slurve
00:28:02
right now. We like this, right?
00:28:04
Almost in. You can see like these don't
00:28:06
really know where I'm going type type scenarios or like I just
00:28:09
want to stay within this one thing but I kind of like when
00:28:12
they're a little bit more connected, little more little
00:28:14
more tissue between each novel even though I know they're
00:28:17
supposed to be stand alone and like people should be able to
00:28:19
pick up the series at any point, I think it would be hard to
00:28:24
like, pick up a True Believer in though, like Yeah, or even to
00:28:28
even to pick up this one, I mean you could read it but you don't
00:28:32
get that weight of not having Red Turbo list.
00:28:35
Yeah. If we just look at you with it,
00:28:38
you would be would do do yourself a disservice.
00:28:40
Yeah. I agree hundred years.
00:28:41
You just look at you know, Brad Vince and Jack.
00:28:45
I think this one is the most cereal in the sense of it is a
00:28:49
story. It is one man's life and journey
00:28:51
and transformation over various periods of his life.
00:28:54
Where sure you can say that for Mitch but they're also just kind
00:28:57
of badass action Adventures. Sure.
00:28:59
You could say that for Scott Harvest but he's just going on
00:29:01
all these cool Journeys. Doing doing awesome shit around
00:29:03
the world. Yeah, we're James Reese.
00:29:07
He is a character in the fullest sense.
00:29:09
He's a human. He is, I would say more human
00:29:12
than almost any other superhero in these books, or, you know
00:29:16
ubermensch. Yeah, he's human.
00:29:18
He's a real man and part of that, I want to move into here
00:29:22
is his relationships with the people around him and that I
00:29:24
think is a Hallmark of Jack car and his life personally in the
00:29:28
teams. And as a family, man, it's all
00:29:31
about the people around you and the relationships, you build?
00:29:34
And this first, third of the book is where we get Get the
00:29:37
Hastings Clan. Yes.
00:29:38
Rafe, let me just first. Read a description of this man
00:29:42
because Ray Hastings is a legend and the way he's dropped right
00:29:47
here. The first time, he's really on
00:29:49
scene in a dialogue on page. Now, listen to this physical
00:29:54
description, we'll see who we. We picture in our mind here, a
00:29:57
little fan casting, maybe quote Rafe was a traditionalist who
00:30:02
preferred the feel and soul of an earlier time.
00:30:05
If Reese was X nylon and Kevlar. Rafe was leather, brass and
00:30:09
walnut. The man's athletic physiques
00:30:12
were obvious to the most casual Observer with broad, thick chest
00:30:15
and Powerful arms built by Decades of intense physical
00:30:18
training. Though, their wardrobes were
00:30:20
nearly identical in their build similar.
00:30:22
No one would mistake them for brothers.
00:30:25
Reese's hair was dark with flecks of gray in his stubble.
00:30:28
Rafe was two inches taller than his friends six feet and is
00:30:32
build was leaner with broad shoulders and a narrower
00:30:35
narrower waist. It's his longest hair was a son
00:30:38
streak blond that hung from the back of his cap and nearly
00:30:41
touched his collar. His eyes were an almost
00:30:43
iridescent green that stood in contrast to his tan face, a
00:30:47
discolored scar swept, the length of his cheek.
00:30:51
What do you think about our introduction to Rafe here die?
00:30:54
I really like the comparison, how they compare Reese is Kydex
00:30:59
and Rafe is leather holster and it really gets flushed out more
00:31:04
and more throughout the book with, you know, Ray flakes in
00:31:07
1911 and Reese likes a Glock or a cig.
00:31:10
And then it goes into archery as well, Rafe, you know, has a
00:31:15
traditional bow which which I do as well.
00:31:17
I have about seven traditional archery bows.
00:31:21
So whenever it comes to that topic in this book,
00:31:23
specifically, I love the descriptions.
00:31:25
They're not too detailed to wear bogs down, people who aren't
00:31:28
into it, but the guys are into it.
00:31:30
You know that Jack is well, aware of what he's writing about
00:31:34
and so does he get it right? Yeah, 100%.
00:31:38
And if he sets up so much you know enough I shot a bow.
00:31:45
Once a Boy Scout, the shotgun merit badge, also.
00:31:49
So I'll just say did you get the boat?
00:31:51
Bo badge or Drew badge. Got the rifle badge, got a
00:31:54
shotgun badge and then I haven't shot a gun since well, we're
00:31:59
opposite. I didn't go to Boy Scouts, but I
00:32:01
shoot often, so, but there's so many good setups.
00:32:06
There's, there's this archery set up where Reese is surprises
00:32:09
Rafe with the traditional bow and later on, he needs that
00:32:13
skill to be proficient, to make it through Siberia.
00:32:16
And then there's also the set up at dinner here towards the
00:32:20
beginning of the book with 80 and they're talking about
00:32:23
Reese's ridiculous adventures in Alaska.
00:32:25
Yeah, that he was gone for, I can't remember for how many days
00:32:29
but basically, dragging a canoe or kayak and yeah, going over
00:32:32
glaciers and things like that. Like those story setups that we
00:32:35
don't know about James because we haven't been around this
00:32:38
family and Katie typically in films, your main character is
00:32:42
like someone who's new to an experience and then experienced
00:32:45
people explain things and that also gets that explanation for
00:32:48
the audience Katie is that person for those Those scenes
00:32:52
where she's the new person, doesn't know the information,
00:32:55
the Hastings inform her of that stuff, and that also informs the
00:32:58
reader of the capabilities of Reese, basically.
00:33:02
But you're talking about doing some fan casting, is there
00:33:04
anybody specifically that you're thinking of oh Chris you are a
00:33:08
movie guy. I feel like, you know all the
00:33:09
movies and actors but I can getting like a conglomeration of
00:33:13
a few like, either Thor, what's his name?
00:33:16
He and his brother, Chris Hemsworth, the Hemsworth's.
00:33:19
I feel like either one of them you take different Pieces of
00:33:21
them. And then the scar through his
00:33:24
cheek, I never actually realized that before because I don't
00:33:26
think it comes up too much. Now really like a mitch rap
00:33:29
style. Look.
00:33:29
Which for me is always like a Gerard Butler.
00:33:32
If you were taller, maybe like a like a young Mel Gibson, I'm
00:33:37
thinking, just because this kind of not a mullet.
00:33:39
Exactly. But this like shoulder-length
00:33:41
hair coming out the back of his cap it's kind of like an
00:33:44
amalgamation of a few, anything kind of like Jon Jon Bernthal
00:33:48
for some reason like that that was like the image.
00:33:51
That came into the Punisher and he was in using Walking Dead as
00:33:55
well. Walking Dead and Shane.
00:33:58
He's been in a lot of, a lot of things recently, isn't that the
00:34:01
new like spin-off of the wire show, we run the city, we own
00:34:05
the city, and it's hard to like Fan cast.
00:34:07
Because to me, I was trying to think of like someone who is
00:34:12
played like someone from South Africa or, you know, from You
00:34:17
know, in someone from, you know, southern Africa, it was white,
00:34:23
you know, like part like that, that sort of nationality.
00:34:26
Funny. Funny, you should say that I got
00:34:28
the perfect person here. All right, it was that shortell.
00:34:31
His name is, Char toe copeley. He was in like, District 9.
00:34:36
He's from South Africa and he's in a new movie called The Beast
00:34:41
as well. It was in The A-Team Elysium
00:34:45
District 9 is like, his probably his biggest lead role.
00:34:47
Be like oh, he's like a skinnier 6-foot, South African, yeah,
00:34:52
South African actor, who he is, there's Rafe.
00:34:56
So that's a good one. I like him, go, mainly because
00:34:59
he's from South Africa, that works.
00:35:02
So I just looked up the Lethal Weapon, Mel Gibson and yeah,
00:35:06
like that age with kind of that hair.
00:35:08
But maybe smooth the little bit more between those two.
00:35:11
Those are the exact exact two profiles.
00:35:14
Yeah. I mean, Gibson would have to be
00:35:15
taller also, but you want to see what shark Though, looks like
00:35:19
you could type in District 9, he should be the first actor on the
00:35:22
on the cast list. What about Jonathan Hastings?
00:35:25
The father I like in cases like this where it's an IP like this
00:35:31
that you would like to bring a little bit of respect to you
00:35:33
don't want to cast something like a Liam Neeson because they
00:35:37
bring so much of something else that you might not want for the
00:35:40
IP right. Where I think Liam Neeson, might
00:35:43
visually look the part and probably act as well.
00:35:46
He could probably pull off the accent and everything.
00:35:49
I just know he's the first person that came to mind, that's
00:35:52
funny because I was thinking like the same thing.
00:35:54
I was also thinking, like, Woody Harrelson, I don't know if Woody
00:35:56
Harrelson could do Reason I was done serious.
00:36:00
Better of you could do that. That that kind of accent.
00:36:04
Yeah. Jeff Bridges.
00:36:07
Yeah. Is he good and go for Jeff
00:36:09
Bridges or a Josh Brolin? If they got to have the gravitas
00:36:14
they really have to have that aura.
00:36:16
Josh Brolin has an old young look that probably wouldn't fit
00:36:19
and he needs somebody. That looks like they've been
00:36:21
drug through gravel. Yeah, you said Jeff Bridges
00:36:26
rightly I'm going Jeff Byrd. Yeah.
00:36:28
Yeah Jeff Bridges is probably pretty good.
00:36:31
So I've had an epiphany Hopkins. Yeah, that's possible.
00:36:36
Yeah, I could see that definitely with with how ruffy
00:36:38
looks and, and, and how he could act.
00:36:41
But I had a question for you guys.
00:36:42
So with the, the information, we know from the TV show and now
00:36:47
seeing this relationship with Katie and James really grow in
00:36:51
this book and how much stuff they do together.
00:36:53
Can you see The actors from the show, being in this, in this
00:36:59
way. I 100% can see the actors but
00:37:05
I'm not too sure. I could see where the characters
00:37:08
were written into in that last episode or less few episodes.
00:37:11
Even I don't know if I can get there with those storylines.
00:37:15
The actors. Yes, the visuals.
00:37:17
Yes, but something about the way, the two of them were in
00:37:22
Senator Hartley's office in that house, on that final attack seen
00:37:27
something about their relationship is far too broken
00:37:30
or disturbed, which in the book, it was Disturbed and there's
00:37:33
this lingering lingering question of did Reese play with
00:37:37
Katie's life and she has to know the answer to that.
00:37:40
And one of my favorite things about this book is when that
00:37:43
Plays out. We get that.
00:37:44
We get the answer. Yeah, yes.
00:37:45
And when that plays out, I'm on the edge of my seat for that
00:37:48
kind of stuff often more. So, sometimes than the action.
00:37:52
So I think visually the Katie of the books and in this book, I
00:37:57
can absolutely see constants will play, I can't see it
00:38:01
getting there without some major heavy lifting Chris, what do you
00:38:05
think? And the biggest problem is if
00:38:06
they do this in order and do True Believer.
00:38:08
Next, she's not even really in that much at all around.
00:38:11
Well, I mean, he, I think he's from what I remember.
00:38:13
He goes to see her. He sees her doesn't contact.
00:38:16
Yeah, he likely he goes to like the yeah, which is a news.
00:38:20
Anchor off his right? And yeah, he watches her, he
00:38:23
calls and hangs up. Yeah.
00:38:26
I honestly don't think that they're going to go.
00:38:29
Like they have they're going to go their own way like I could
00:38:32
see them just fully writing a new story you know they sort of
00:38:37
set the groundwork they needed a pretty true adaptation or as
00:38:42
close to you know what you could get for TV for journalists they
00:38:48
might call the True Believer. The second story but I can see
00:38:51
them going completely you know off book because that book yeah
00:38:55
is kind of like a little unfilmable you know?
00:38:58
Because A lot of it is this emotion.
00:39:01
Are you really going to spend? Four episodes in South Africa.
00:39:07
There are they Mozambique or it wasn't Bob over there in
00:39:10
Mozambique right? Yeah, yeah.
00:39:12
They're in Mozambique, I do like 2 to 3 there and then have you
00:39:16
picked up by, by recruitment for CIA and then like two to three
00:39:20
with that and then the last couple episodes be like the
00:39:24
Ukrainian. Well, I've already seen that
00:39:27
they're not going to do Ukraine but the Ukrainian scenes from
00:39:30
the novel be the last couple episodes where You know,
00:39:34
basically it just be like a finding new purpose for life and
00:39:37
then a recruitment section. I wouldn't mind leaving out.
00:39:41
The you like, even the second half of True Believer, I really
00:39:45
wouldn't mind a season to that does getting a new purpose in
00:39:48
life. In Africa.
00:39:49
I really want to see the sailboat, the Africa, kind of
00:39:51
transformation, the poaching, maybe an episode or two, but I
00:39:55
would want the main storyline to be the Savage Sun storyline.
00:39:58
Like, I think, what would could bring him out of that state of
00:40:00
mind? Is the Hastings, family meeting
00:40:03
him and, you know, maybe to Rafe who's taken or something, just
00:40:07
some bigger jolt that gets him out in the game.
00:40:10
Again, that's more than just there's a war in Ukraine and an
00:40:13
assassination attempt on the president that's been done
00:40:16
before I think you gotta jump to the personal, the Hastings, the
00:40:20
family Dynamics. Yeah, Montana stuff like get
00:40:22
there sooner rather than later in the visual sense, they need
00:40:25
to flush out there Freddy strain.
00:40:27
And if that's going to be JD Pardo's character, JD part is
00:40:30
going to end up biting the dust which sucks.
00:40:32
Yes, but they that you need to give Reese new purpose for like
00:40:36
future Seasons, just like True Believer.
00:40:37
Gives Reese purpose for book 5. Yep, I kind of wouldn't mind a
00:40:41
mash-up of True Believer in Savage sun in the season.
00:40:45
I think that's the way to go. I was just gonna said because
00:40:48
like you said, they can't leave KD, you know, this actor.
00:40:51
I think I was a cast causes. Will they're not gonna have her
00:40:54
on ice for an entire season? Right?
00:40:56
Yeah. So I can totally see them
00:40:57
bringing The Savage Sun storyline with her into the.
00:41:02
Don't you want to see the Montana stuff?
00:41:04
Like, don't you want to see Katie and reefs in the cabin in
00:41:06
Montana and the kiss? And he goes, welcome to Montana
00:41:09
right after like let's get there.
00:41:12
Yeah. So I think like it's good if I
00:41:13
had to guess I'd be some sort of a Malcolm amalgamation between
00:41:16
these two stories. Yeah, so while we're talking
00:41:19
about Katie not to read another long quote but again this is
00:41:24
some of my favorite writing from Jack.
00:41:27
And it's crazy. Because people remember him.
00:41:29
As the Gearhead, the action guy. Oh, he's a real seal, so he can
00:41:32
get you in the thoughts and emotions and mindset of what the
00:41:35
guys are going through down range.
00:41:37
But almost one of my favorite things in his stories is the
00:41:40
relationships. And so listen to Katie for
00:41:43
anyone who isn't bought into the Katie storyline who just maybe
00:41:46
saw the TV show or was reading the books and isn't sure what
00:41:49
they think about her. She literally doesn't know if
00:41:52
Reese played with her life when he took out Ben And which meant
00:41:58
the dead switch would go and blow her head off.
00:42:00
So before Katie knows if she can really trust and series again,
00:42:04
and develop something she thinks, hey, quote, who was
00:42:08
James Reese, she wondered, was he a domestic terrorist as the
00:42:11
government had proclaimed when they were desperately trying to
00:42:14
find and kill him. A vigilante hell-bent on
00:42:17
avenging. His murdered wife daughter and
00:42:19
unborn son. Was he a disgruntled veteran?
00:42:22
Who brought the wars home to the home front after the ambush of
00:42:24
the his Seal Team in the Sons of Afghanistan.
00:42:27
Was he her savior would have blown her head off to avenge.
00:42:30
His family was nothing sacred in that Quest including her.
00:42:35
I love what Katie's grappling with here.
00:42:37
Absolutely love how she needs an answer to this question.
00:42:40
Yeah, and I like, what she ends up doing to get it.
00:42:43
She breaks the couple who rules to make sure that she can get
00:42:48
what she what she feels. She needs out of the situation,
00:42:50
and the only way I see this happening in the show is if what
00:42:55
she needs to know. Is if Reese, knew she would be
00:42:59
safe from the car explosion from Steve:.
00:43:01
That's the only thing that he did that, put her in danger.
00:43:04
That's the only thing that would be comparable to the det-cord
00:43:08
question really in the novel. Did you guys see that?
00:43:14
They today, they teased that something's something's coming
00:43:19
about a season 2, they've been teasing a lot.
00:43:21
So who teased and on what platform?
00:43:23
Because I'm waiting for the official stuff, because I've
00:43:25
heard a lot of teasing from Christmas is from Jack car.
00:43:29
It was an Amazon executive, okay?
00:43:31
And then Sanders said he got, there is some exciting
00:43:34
announcement to come very soon because we haven't heard from
00:43:38
Amazon. We've heard from everyone else.
00:43:39
Yeah. Well that's what I was out
00:43:41
Executives. Yeah.
00:43:43
The best teaser so far. And that's best sign that
00:43:46
there's stuff in the future happening.
00:43:47
Is the the danger-close podcast with Chris Pratt is to get
00:43:51
Chris. Yep.
00:43:52
By far, so they offered some guarantees without guarantees.
00:43:56
They offered some pretty strong. You're not going to let the fans
00:43:59
down. Yeah, that's coming.
00:44:02
I love all the Wikipedia page, it has Jack cars quote that said
00:44:07
in response to the critics is like it's got a really good fan
00:44:11
rating. And so we didn't make it for the
00:44:13
critics. Like I just love, I love it
00:44:15
because it gives a shit. Exactly, exactly.
00:44:19
Well, guys, that's the Trap. The Trap is set, we talked
00:44:21
Hastings and talk to Katie coming to the ranch in Montana.
00:44:25
What does your calves are up to what Oliver Gray's doing?
00:44:29
And part two is the stock, and I think the centerpiece of the
00:44:34
middle part of the book, Is the hit on recent wraith and the
00:44:40
shootout, in the valley. How incredible was that action
00:44:43
sequence? I think we needed an action
00:44:45
sequence at this point in the book.
00:44:47
Yeah, and it landed landed hard. This is, this is my favorite
00:44:50
part of the book. Agreed.
00:44:52
This is my favorite. Brilliant.
00:44:54
Yes. The the train up of the, the
00:44:57
insurgents from Russia and there's a few details that you
00:45:02
could. You could skip over with them,
00:45:04
but I don't know. There's a couple that I kind of
00:45:06
like, Like the one recruit this. Looking at his AK, I think he
00:45:10
has a km and he sees somebody engraved something in the stock
00:45:15
and he's wondering about it. And like there's actually like
00:45:17
quite a little bit of information about just this like
00:45:20
one guy wondering about his firearm that he was handed and
00:45:24
who died with it last. There's like little things like
00:45:27
that that are kind of unnecessary but I would miss.
00:45:30
If like, I knew that they were there before I like them
00:45:33
training up and how confident they think they are and then
00:45:36
when They get in the into the situation.
00:45:38
They are pissed off that they are surrounded by these by these
00:45:41
nobodies. And these amateurs because it
00:45:45
doesn't take much for defense and reaction to happen from the
00:45:49
Hastings Clan and Reese. Yeah, it keeps on referencing
00:45:55
them as you know like street thugs but in ultimately they
00:46:01
they all meet their device, right?
00:46:03
I think we're all except one all except one or badgering Dimitri,
00:46:08
he's gonna get it. That's not the the first time
00:46:11
we've seen caps a sum up the penis, right?
00:46:14
Mike bradd. Thor has done it and this book
00:46:16
we talked about him earlier was dedicated to Brad Thor.
00:46:19
Who Brad was an instrumental role in getting Jack on the
00:46:22
scene. And His first book out there.
00:46:24
Yeah, putting it in front of Emily Besler.
00:46:26
So what was it that he puts capsaicin of someone's?
00:46:30
I think we just read it the first commandment, I'm pretty
00:46:32
sure. Oh yes, great tube up the
00:46:34
urethra. So now I have I don't know if
00:46:37
that's a no Maj yet breath or did that so I haven't read that
00:46:40
one. But my question is, does it go
00:46:42
into detail? Something?
00:46:43
I actually liked about this situation, was they show you or
00:46:46
they tell you about James prepping it, and grinding it,
00:46:49
and putting it in the oven to dry it out, and then making like
00:46:52
a ocean and then like spraying it in the guys.
00:46:54
I, you know, it's described as so painful.
00:46:57
If his hands weren't bound, he would have ripped his eye from
00:46:59
its socket know that stuff is really cool when Brad did it.
00:47:04
It was more the ongoing joke or the running joke.
00:47:07
I think over a few books was, there's more uses for pepper
00:47:10
spray. Yeah, we typically use it and so
00:47:13
one of those I think it's just straight pepper spray up
00:47:16
through, you know, a catheter, so that's awful.
00:47:19
No, it's not that, it's not that in depth.
00:47:21
So I think Jack is paying homage Bad early Brad.
00:47:24
I like how it's a go it's some sort of ghost pepper that's like
00:47:28
the hottest on the Homegrown is homegrown to job on the Scoville
00:47:31
scale you got one of those ghost peppers for me.
00:47:34
Yeah yeah I like that whole interaction so just real quick
00:47:39
back to like the Ambush which is my favorite part.
00:47:42
Absolutely. You know that the hillbilly in
00:47:44
the Ford Ford F250 that stops to help and kind of spoils.
00:47:49
The bad guy's point of view, he's the person that spoils but
00:47:51
really it was I believe even zharkov makes the call event.
00:47:56
No, no. It was a lead.
00:47:57
Alex Alexander. Okay, it's Alexander because he
00:47:59
wants he hears that his or her suspects that they're going
00:48:03
after Reese yet. He thinks it would be fun to
00:48:07
have Reese as a little play toy out on many eyelid, then he
00:48:10
realizes he realizes that. Rafe is s Rainsford exactly.
00:48:14
And he wants to save reefs and Rafe to hopefully entice them to
00:48:18
come out to the island. So he calls Vic and you had
00:48:20
talked Vic Rodriguez who's just a g but Yes Rainsford.
00:48:24
I love that too. Yeah, it's just all back.
00:48:26
Yeah, the call back to most dangerous game with s Rainsford
00:48:29
as rafe's pen name is all super cool.
00:48:32
Yeah, super cool. Yeah, really good stuff.
00:48:35
So, what else happens in this Valley, you got re striving back
00:48:39
after he realized the Ambush and escaped it and the team vehicle
00:48:43
to its limits. All he's really pushing and and
00:48:45
there's in and out of cell service, but he's able to get
00:48:47
through to Caroline. Yeah, and basically tells them
00:48:52
he says there's There's tears on the on the ranch which is short
00:48:55
for terrorists and he gets there drops.
00:48:57
He's basically swaps Katie for Jonathan and Zulu which Zulu
00:49:02
does some pretty cool shit in this part which I enjoyed this.
00:49:05
Thought this book has two dogs that are busy a lot of cool dog
00:49:08
stuffins, right? Good dog stuff.
00:49:10
Yeah, when Reese fights the dog at the end?
00:49:12
Yes, we'll get there but with the Snowshoe like yeah, the dogs
00:49:15
are really worked in super. Well, we've already actually had
00:49:18
two dogs with Hannah with had a right, and I'm glad it's not
00:49:21
just the dogs out in. And the Russia stuff.
00:49:24
Yeah, I'm really glad. It's also Jonathan's dogs in
00:49:26
Montana, so like you're not just saying, the dogs are used for
00:49:30
evil with by the bad guys. They're also used as an integral
00:49:33
part of life on the ranch. Yeah, there's Zulu and then I
00:49:36
cannot recall. The dog's name the ends up going
00:49:38
on the on the drop with them in the third act or Zulus.
00:49:42
I like just the way Zulus described and how Jonathan has
00:49:45
absolute obedience from that dog and so basically rafe's in
00:49:50
trouble. He's Barefoot trying to get a
00:49:52
buck. With, I believe it's archery
00:49:54
season and the only firearm he has on him as a 1911.
00:49:58
So he drops his pack and goes Barefoot to sneak up on this
00:50:00
buck that earlier in the novel him and Ricci and that Rafe is
00:50:05
definitely prepping to harvest for the year.
00:50:09
And so he's going in on that. And the buck gets spooked, which
00:50:13
Spooks Rafe, because nobody else is supposed to be on the
00:50:15
property, and draws his 1911 and ends up taking fire and survives
00:50:20
in like a premade Foxhole. That's Actually, they're
00:50:23
basically until Jonathan Zulu and Reese get there.
00:50:28
So that is their part of the Ambush.
00:50:33
Meanwhile though, Caroline Hastings is taking charge, back
00:50:38
at the house. So it's got they've got the
00:50:40
girls. They're right because it's also
00:50:43
Katie and it's Liz who flew in Senator Thornton, and I guess is
00:50:49
it rafe's wife, pregnant wife? I forget her name but that
00:50:52
senator Thornton's daughter. So these four ladies are just
00:50:55
going to go ham on the house and I think it's Liz and Katie who
00:50:58
go to the Second Story and Katie's kind of freaking out and
00:51:01
Caroline tells her anybody runs across this yard towards the
00:51:04
door, you just shoot him. You pump led into him and you
00:51:07
don't stop until they're down and Katie can't do it.
00:51:10
You can't find it in her to take that shot.
00:51:13
Eventually, Liz covers her, I think and and gets the guy and
00:51:18
it's right on time. They pretty much how many guys
00:51:20
did they take out defending that house at least for right?
00:51:23
Yeah, because what they used to go to the house is the F250.
00:51:28
So I from, from what I recall. Or maybe that is after recent
00:51:33
them, get back. Maybe there's another group.
00:51:35
Wasn't there, like, 10 guys in each?
00:51:37
Yeah, yeah. Actually, you're right Chris.
00:51:39
So there's each. Mm.
00:51:41
Assault. Yeah.
00:51:41
So there's ten ambushing Rafe and there is that there's ten
00:51:46
that were ambushing reefs. And they went to the, I believe
00:51:49
they go to the cabin. Yeah.
00:51:52
So dude. Love that scene.
00:51:54
I like this whole part because it's like, you know, we're
00:51:58
getting these Cuts between the Ting and then like race and
00:52:02
Katie or Reese on the ranch or Reese, you know, going into
00:52:06
town, you know, we can get the archery scene and I like the
00:52:10
tension that it builds up you know because we're like how is
00:52:13
it how is race going to be going to get out of this?
00:52:15
You know and ultimately I think it's what because Freddy calls?
00:52:19
Because he gets the information from Alexander.
00:52:22
You know, the word. Like why the hell does he want?
00:52:25
What the hell? Is he saved Reese's life in the
00:52:27
end or you want to keep them alive?
00:52:30
We find out later, but I really like the tension that Jack plays
00:52:34
up here, you know, really trying to get you to turn that page.
00:52:38
All right, finish the chapter, I want to keep reading, you know,
00:52:41
it, I feel like at this point, that's where it really gets
00:52:44
engaging. And then, and once we get to
00:52:47
part 3 in terms of the kill, then it's like, all right, we're
00:52:51
racing to the Finish now, right? And the two things are going to
00:52:55
happen. Concurrently after the sit at
00:52:57
the ranch. Reese and Liz are going to take
00:53:01
Dmitri, The Prisoner, the 11 live guy, and get information
00:53:05
out of him and he spills the beans because he says, fuck
00:53:08
Alexander zarkoff. He blew this op.
00:53:10
He's the reason we all died and didn't kill you.
00:53:12
And so I'm going to give you this information so you can go
00:53:15
kill him. And that's, that's, that's my
00:53:16
revenge. And because there's also the
00:53:20
story of The Lion and the cub and he has to kill the father.
00:53:24
So everyone's putting together that Alexander has to turn on
00:53:27
his dad and this Plan was being organized by his dad.
00:53:31
So, even the the street Thug, you know, the muscle guy puts
00:53:34
together, that Alexander is kind of the one who blew this whole
00:53:37
op and that's happening. The same time that Rafe goes off
00:53:41
to Romania because they find out in the aftermath of all this,
00:53:45
that Hannah's missing, who's the sister working this agricultural
00:53:49
program out in the countryside of Romania.
00:53:52
And that's a good phone call when Caroline is freaking out
00:53:55
and she's like, are you Hannah, hello, and it's just Reese and
00:53:58
it's like what's wrong with Well that's where the story is going
00:54:01
to turn to now and we as the reader know from the opening
00:54:04
scene right now that wouldn't even talk about that prologue.
00:54:07
How she's being hunted by Alexander out many islands.
00:54:10
So when the families like shit are sisters, also missing out in
00:54:14
Romania, I'm like damn this is going to really start picking up
00:54:17
and like you said, race to the Finish?
00:54:20
Yeah, this this actually has the first of two prologues that I
00:54:22
didn't care too much for it until like Midway through the
00:54:25
book and then I was like that prologue was awesome.
00:54:28
Awesome. The Other one.
00:54:29
The other one is in the blood. I didn't really care for the
00:54:33
person there where she dies on the plane plane.
00:54:35
Yeah, really. I hope I was like, I don't know.
00:54:38
There's something about it that like I just wanted to get
00:54:40
started with Reese and stick with that.
00:54:42
And then like by Midway through the book, I was like, alright
00:54:45
that prologue was great. Well that one pays off when he
00:54:47
goes to Israel and you do find out his relationship.
00:54:50
Yeah. For sure actually.
00:54:51
Yeah. I guess like that prologue plays
00:54:54
into what I was saying earlier as well as like The
00:54:57
disorientation I was just confused.
00:54:59
Like I didn't know who, you know, what are we doing here?
00:55:03
And then we jumped, you know, I we forgot to talk about that
00:55:05
earlier but like I think I agree with you guys that once we
00:55:09
understand who that person was. You know, I guess you get Clues
00:55:13
because she's someone from Montana, you know, that the
00:55:16
Hastings are from Montana, you're supposed to like piece it
00:55:19
together, right? Yeah, yeah.
00:55:20
She, they talk about her being a track star and that's why she
00:55:22
can run so good on Med, and the island and everything.
00:55:24
And then they talk about her brother teaching, her some
00:55:27
Aliens and I think she has like interior dialogue about that.
00:55:32
She wants to cry, but her brother's like picking her up
00:55:34
basically, which is right. So I can't remember my first
00:55:38
read-through. So Chris from you.
00:55:40
Did you pick up on that when you read the prologue?
00:55:42
Who did you think this is a Hasting.
00:55:44
Do you think it was related to the Hastings or did it take you
00:55:46
to this point in the book before you really like oh crap, that
00:55:50
opening scene now because I had read in the blood so I kind of
00:55:53
like I immediately put it together like as I'm reading it.
00:55:57
It or as I'm listening to it, I was like who is this lady and
00:56:01
then I remembered they reference that Rafe sister got, you know,
00:56:04
like the whole point of the Revenge story in Russia was braz
00:56:08
of you know, it all just parked. Yeah.
00:56:11
Sometimes I just want to relive reading these for the first time
00:56:14
and I do and try to remember where I was at but yeah.
00:56:22
We have to thank our patrons big.
00:56:24
Shout-out to our special operators.
00:56:25
Cherry have our special agents Darryl.
00:56:27
Kevin George Matt Dawn. Dennis Peggy, cathode ray
00:56:30
Bridget, Jeff, and Mark recently earlier this month, we had a
00:56:33
great, great time, chatting with a couple of them on a zoom call
00:56:39
or was assumed or some sort of FaceTime call.
00:56:42
I forget, I'm like gonna get a phase right now fog, man.
00:56:45
All that painting is getting to the paint fumes are getting to
00:56:48
you. Hello?
00:56:50
And you can really on top Yeah, and I'm medicine hours and
00:56:55
another happy holidays to everybody, you know, this spot
00:56:59
will be coming out right after Christmas.
00:57:02
So I hope everyone including our patrons have a great holiday.
00:57:06
Spend some time with your family.
00:57:07
As we use this time to rest and recuperate and will be back in
00:57:12
January covered more through their podcast.
00:57:14
So look forward to us in the New Year.
00:57:18
All right. The give Chris a break.
00:57:20
I will say please. Subscribe rate and review using
00:57:23
the Apple podcast app. You can find us online at
00:57:27
Thriller pod.com, or using the Twitter and Instagram handle at
00:57:31
Thriller podcast. And, as always, like, Jonathan
00:57:34
Hastings, says, to the lads to the, let's