(No Spoilers!) Go behind the scenes with Don Bentley, the author continuing the legacy of Vince Flynn’s Mitch Rapp series, as he discusses the making of Denied Access — the explosive new Mitch Rapp thriller.
In this conversation, we explore how Don approached stepping into the world of American Assassin, what drives Mitch Rapp as a character, and how Denied Access fits into the series’ evolution.
---
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Chapters
00:42 Don Bentley's Journey with Mitch Rapp
02:09 The Challenge of Continuing a Legacy
12:24 Research and Real-Life Inspirations
19:30 The Future of Mitch Rapp Stories
26:53 Fan Engagement and Community Impact
29:21 The Legacy of Vince Flynn and Mitch Rapp
43:39 Mitch Rapp's Moral Compass and Character Development
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Keywords:
Mitch Rapp, Don Bentley, thriller novels, espionage, Vince Flynn, character development, fan engagement, writing process, historical research, book series
#NoLimitsPodcast #ThrillerPodcast #ThrillerPod #ActionThrillers #SpyThrillers
00:00:11
All right, well guys, welcome back to Thriller Podcast and for
00:00:15
tonight we are the Mitch Rap podcast again.
00:00:19
And I think I can safely say this might be the first time any
00:00:23
author has done an interview with a real character in their
00:00:26
books who also happens to be a massive super fan.
00:00:29
We not only have the real Kris Henrick with us tonight, one of
00:00:33
the biggest Mitch rap fans in the universe, but we have the
00:00:35
reason that Mitch rap lives. Don Bentley, thank you so much
00:00:41
for joining us tonight. Yeah.
00:00:42
Thanks for having me guys. So how's, how's everything
00:00:46
going? How's, you know coming off the
00:00:48
this end of the trilogy? So far so good tomorrow.
00:00:53
So the the way it works is the book comes out on Tuesday and
00:00:57
then you find out usually the following Wednesday how it
00:01:01
placed on the New York Times list.
00:01:03
So that is what I am anxiously awaiting and but it was super
00:01:09
fun. We do.
00:01:11
I did you know, the the Mitch or the Mitch the Vince, which maybe
00:01:15
is also the Mitch book stop tour where I get to see Chris and
00:01:19
hang out and then go to poison pen.
00:01:21
But was was kind of fun. We always do a book launch here
00:01:26
in my hometown north of us in Georgetown.
00:01:29
And this was the first time that there were more people I didn't
00:01:33
know there than just friends and stuff.
00:01:35
And so there were a ton of Mitch Rapp fans.
00:01:37
So it's it's been super cool. Yeah, no, I think it's been, you
00:01:43
know, we didn't get a chance to talk to you last time around,
00:01:45
but you know, we loved, love, love, love the the last book.
00:01:50
And, you know, I think, you know, you've taken this series
00:01:54
by the reins and, you know, it's it's been great.
00:01:57
And, you know, I guess for our listeners, you know, you
00:02:01
probably hash this out a bunch of times, but if you wouldn't
00:02:03
mind just going into like, what was it like, you know, doing the
00:02:07
first book and then now deciding to do the second book and then
00:02:11
getting the chance or, you know, to do to finish that trilogy
00:02:14
that we've all, you know, super fans want want that done.
00:02:17
Can you just tell us you know a little bit of both of those
00:02:19
things? Yes, it was super heavy to do
00:02:21
the first book just from the standpoint of I was a fan long,
00:02:25
long before I was even a writer and certainly ever had the the
00:02:30
idea that I'd get to write in the universe that Vince created.
00:02:33
And I just wanted to to make sure that the first book I did
00:02:37
was was a worthy entry in into that universe.
00:02:42
And so it seemed to to be received pretty well.
00:02:47
But then I, I think I made it, gave myself another bar that was
00:02:52
hard to get over from the standpoint of every Mitch Rapp
00:02:55
fan wants to know what happened to Greta and wants to know how
00:03:00
that trilogy ended. And all of the cool stuff that
00:03:03
Vince hinted at in American Assassin and Kill Shot, what
00:03:06
happened to that? And so my editor, who was also
00:03:10
Vince's editor, Emily Bessler, has always been super
00:03:14
supportive. And she was just like, tell
00:03:16
whatever story Jazzes you like. Tell whatever story that fires
00:03:21
you up and gets you excited to sit down and write.
00:03:24
And so I said, I want to tell this story.
00:03:26
And I didn't know. I I didn't know if she would
00:03:30
hesitate or anything like that. And she's a great write it.
00:03:32
And I'm like, man, now I got to write it.
00:03:34
And so there's, as you all know, women who love Mitch Rapp don't
00:03:40
tend to fare well. And so I had to figure out what
00:03:43
happened to Greta, but then have what happened to Greta in a way
00:03:48
that was both inevitable because we all know that she's never
00:03:52
mentioned again, but also surprising, which I think are
00:03:55
also the two components of of any good thriller novel.
00:03:59
You always want to look back on it and say, well, of course
00:04:01
that's what happened. But when it was happening, you
00:04:04
don't want to be able to guess kind of how it's going to go.
00:04:07
And so I spent a lot of time thinking about that and thinking
00:04:10
what could have happened? What what what would have been
00:04:14
so traumatic is maybe the wrong word, but what would have been
00:04:18
so divisive? Because when you read American
00:04:20
Assassin and Kill Shot, it seems very much that they are about to
00:04:24
go right off into the sunset together.
00:04:26
That at the, you know, in kill Shot, he actually tells her he
00:04:29
loves you. He loves her and is making this
00:04:33
big, big step that he hadn't since his first girlfriend.
00:04:38
You know, when Vince is in Mitch's head, Vince's or Mitch
00:04:42
is saying things like, you know, there have been other women and
00:04:44
certainly wasn't, you know, wasn't that, that I, I became a
00:04:49
monk after Mary died, but the idea that this one meant
00:04:55
something special to him. But then we never hear about her
00:04:58
again. And so that was kind of a tricky
00:05:00
thing to try and navigate for sure.
00:05:04
Yeah, I believe that. And it's also tricky because
00:05:07
wrapped up in the Mitch and Greta relationship, Stan Hurley
00:05:11
and Thomas Stansfield have certain feelings, some very
00:05:15
strong feelings on that in in Kill Shot, an American assassin.
00:05:18
So what was it like digging up those 2 old codgers and well, 1
00:05:22
old codger and 1 old spymaster? Digging them up and really
00:05:26
getting to tell their story because I could have spent a I
00:05:29
loved how much time we did spend with them.
00:05:31
I could take a whole novel for each of them, or a whole trilogy
00:05:33
for each of them. Yeah, it's so it was really
00:05:37
interesting. I think it's kill shot.
00:05:39
There's a section where Mitch is thinking about what would happen
00:05:43
to him if greatest grandfather ever figures out that he's
00:05:49
dating Greta. And and really elusive the fact
00:05:52
that the guy has so much pull that potentially Mitch could be
00:05:56
on the run for the rest of his life and he could have guys
00:05:59
chasing him that want to express her grandfather's displeasure
00:06:04
and very visceral terms. And so I had kind of that I
00:06:07
thought about that for a while and what that could look like.
00:06:10
And then what was also very interesting is you see across
00:06:13
the trilogy kind of this arc of Stan Hurley and how he goes from
00:06:18
an American assassin. You know he hates Mitch and does
00:06:21
the best that he can to wash him out, even though, and so you
00:06:25
would think at the end of American Assassin when Mitch
00:06:28
saves his life, that everything would be great between them, but
00:06:31
it isn't. And so you see Killshot almost
00:06:34
as if it stands. It stands.
00:06:38
Attempt to say, hey, I told you guys.
00:06:40
So I told you this guy was reckless.
00:06:42
I told you he was going to screw this up.
00:06:44
And so rather, Vince just does this masterful job rather than
00:06:48
just reconciling them. He makes it believable that it's
00:06:52
worse, even though at that point, Stan already owes his
00:06:54
life to Mitch. And then, you know, you Fast
00:06:58
forward it, it ends in that where there's a little bit where
00:07:01
Stan's like, OK, I screwed this up.
00:07:04
And you know, at the end of Kill Shot, he and Mitch seemed like
00:07:08
they're in a decent place, but I would call it more of a
00:07:11
ceasefire than it is, you know, their buddies or anything like
00:07:14
that. But the other thing that Vince
00:07:17
did so well in that book is alluded to how many bridges Stan
00:07:20
burned with Irene, with Stanfield.
00:07:23
And so as I was right and denied access, I was really thinking,
00:07:26
what would he have to do to build that back?
00:07:29
And how hard would it be for Stan to eat crow?
00:07:33
Suck it down, be humble and try. And as much as Stan Hurley can
00:07:38
be humble to be one of the team. And so you see that a lot and
00:07:43
denied access. The other character you see
00:07:45
quite a bit is Thomas Stanfield. And so I'm, I'm, I'm a little
00:07:49
bit, or maybe quite a bit older than you guys.
00:07:51
And so I remember when the Berlin Wall came down, I
00:07:55
remember when during the Clinton administration, we were talking
00:07:58
about the peace dividend from the military perspective.
00:08:01
And then certainly even with the CIA where they're like, hey, you
00:08:04
guys missed, you know, the, the you guys missed the Berlin Wall
00:08:08
coming down. You missed the Soviet coup
00:08:11
against Gorbachev. You missed that.
00:08:13
The Soviet Union was actually going to crumble.
00:08:15
What do we even need a CIA for anymore?
00:08:18
This whole time we've been working against the Russians.
00:08:20
The Russians are or the Soviets are gone now the Russians are
00:08:23
going to be our friends. Why do we even need that?
00:08:26
And so I thought the other thing that Vince did at the end of
00:08:29
Kill Shot is he has this crazy international incident, right,
00:08:34
where Mitch goes in and he kills a member of the French DGSE.
00:08:38
He kills, you know, another high-ranking, I believe it's
00:08:41
Saudi official. He kills who is the heir
00:08:44
apparent of the CIA director. And then you never know what
00:08:48
happens to any of that. And so I thought it would be
00:08:51
kind of fun to to play that out and say, what kind of trouble is
00:08:56
Thomas Stanfield going to have as he tries to become the CIA
00:09:01
director? And then also, you know, Vince
00:09:03
alluded to the fact that that Stanfield was in the OSS and
00:09:07
then in another rap book in the in the title escapes me right
00:09:14
now. He goes into a little more
00:09:16
detail of what Stanfield did, but it's just narration.
00:09:19
It's just like he did this, he did this, he did this.
00:09:22
And so when I was doing research for this, I thought, man, it
00:09:25
would be really, really fun to show Stanfield as a young
00:09:30
operative in the OSS. And so most folks know about
00:09:34
what's called Operation Paper clip at the end of World War 2,
00:09:37
where the US was scooping up Nazi scientists, primarily Nazi
00:09:42
rocket scientists. And the Soviets had their own
00:09:46
counterpart, but they were also interested in a different kind
00:09:48
of scientists, specifically scientists who were working on
00:09:53
the atom bomb for the Nazis. And so they had one operation
00:09:56
that was in charge of rounding up those scientists.
00:09:59
They had another operation that was in charge of getting the
00:10:02
material they needed in order to fabricate a nuclear bomb.
00:10:06
And so one of those things is, is something called uranium
00:10:09
oxide that the Nazis had a stash at of that the Soviets were
00:10:14
partly trying to find. And So what was neat is during
00:10:18
that time period in the OSS itself, there was some division
00:10:22
between the ranks of how to look at the Soviets going forward.
00:10:26
So they were sort of our notional allies in World War
00:10:29
Two. I would argue more by because
00:10:34
they didn't have any other choice than because they chose
00:10:36
it right. Once, once Hitler invaded
00:10:39
Russia, they're like, maybe we made a state mistake here.
00:10:42
And so there were elements of the USS that said, hey, these
00:10:46
guys are our friends now, we shouldn't run operations against
00:10:49
them. And then there are elements that
00:10:50
were more realistic in nature and said, this is going to be
00:10:53
the next threat. Stalin is basically Hitler with,
00:10:56
you know, a in, in in a different country and it may be
00:11:00
a slightly different ideology. And so I thought like, where
00:11:03
would Thomas Stanfield come down in that debate?
00:11:06
And then was there a way to show that?
00:11:08
And so that was really, really fun kind of writing that opening
00:11:12
scene of showing him in World War 2 as a young OSS officer.
00:11:16
And then it it sets up this whole arc for the book where you
00:11:19
basically have this 50 year struggle between Thomas
00:11:23
Stanfield and a man that becomes his counterpart in the KGB who
00:11:28
we first meet during that encounter and, and they don't
00:11:31
realize it yet. And so that was a ton of fun.
00:11:34
And then as part of that, I also got to show Stan Hurley in a
00:11:38
flashback to kind of working on the wrong side of the Berlin
00:11:41
Wall. And that was another thing that
00:11:43
I took from Vince because he again, and and one of the books
00:11:46
had this aside that one time the KGB sent a couple officers off
00:11:51
after Hurley and their bodies were floating in the river the
00:11:54
next day. And Hurley being Hurley,
00:11:56
responds by breaking in the guy's office and stealing all
00:11:59
his files. And I thought, I wonder what
00:12:01
could have been in those files. And maybe that was something
00:12:04
that I could use. And so I think what you see with
00:12:06
denied Access, hopefully the whole time is that it's very
00:12:10
much a new story, but it is very much based on a lot of hanging
00:12:16
chads, I guess for for lack of a better term, that Vince left in
00:12:20
his books. And it was super fun to try and
00:12:22
pull those together. No, that's I mean, you have like
00:12:27
every fans dream of, like, you know, you're as you're reading a
00:12:30
book, you're like, oh, I wish I want to hear about.
00:12:32
And then as soon as we started and and the opening chapter was
00:12:36
with Stansfield in that I was like, Oh, we're on for a good
00:12:39
ride. This is this is going to be
00:12:41
awesome. And then also it it does
00:12:43
transition, as you mentioned, to an espionage book, you know, a
00:12:46
spy spies book. Feel like you're reading some
00:12:48
lake or a level stuff. And we're getting to do that in
00:12:51
the Mitch rap Mitch rap universe and play in this historical
00:12:55
sandbox. You really gave yourself a tall
00:12:57
task. And it seems like the hours of
00:12:59
research, not only in Vince's book, but the historical
00:13:01
research, it paid off in this book.
00:13:04
So what was it like trying to transition to something new, to
00:13:07
an espionage thriller when maybe I haven't seen much of that In
00:13:11
the Matt Drake series, for example, you know, he's always
00:13:13
kicking ass and taking names. So Mitch Rapp has that element
00:13:16
of what Matt Drake does, but what about the espionage stuff?
00:13:20
Was that another level you have to go to?
00:13:22
Yeah, for sure. I think if you would ask most of
00:13:25
us who write in this genre, who write really more military,
00:13:28
political thrillers, military thrillers, we all will tell you
00:13:32
we write espionage novels because it's, it's kind of like
00:13:35
a commercial fiction writer saying, well, I really write
00:13:38
literary stuff and, and most of us don't.
00:13:41
The, the, the friend of mine who does it's a phenomenal writer is
00:13:45
a guy named David McCluskey, whose first book, Damascus
00:13:49
Station is one of the the best in the genre.
00:13:52
His new one, the Persian just came out and that's fantastic
00:13:55
too. And so I called him up because I
00:13:58
had the idea. I think all of Vince's books
00:14:01
dealt with the Islamic terrorist threat.
00:14:05
I don't think any of them dealt with, at least from a Cold War
00:14:07
perspective, kind of this. And so I had that idea of being
00:14:11
able to slide it in there specifically because around that
00:14:14
time period, Vince was he played kind of fast and loose with a
00:14:21
lot of the facts from the standpoint of trying to pinpoint
00:14:25
exactly the year that it took place.
00:14:28
Kyle and I kind of talk back and forth about what it means.
00:14:31
So one of the, the things off the top of my head is that when
00:14:34
the KGB dissolved, it eventually became two different services,
00:14:39
the FSR and the FSB. But for a time period, there was
00:14:43
a another service called the FSK that became the FSB, the kind of
00:14:48
that the MI 5 version or the counterintelligence half of the
00:14:52
KGB. And Vince mentions all three of
00:14:54
those in his books as if they're all happening at the same time.
00:14:58
And so you all you can know kind of about when it is, but not
00:15:02
exactly the year. And so as I was looking at it
00:15:05
and realized, hey, this is the fall of the Soviet Union.
00:15:08
It is the Soviet coup has just happened.
00:15:12
The KGB, I was pretty certain based on clues that I was
00:15:16
digging up in the book that had already happened because he the
00:15:19
the KGB splitting, I mean, because he had talked about that
00:15:22
a little bit. And so I thought, man, wouldn't
00:15:24
that be really fun and write this as a Cold War book because
00:15:28
there were some very interesting things happening in the world of
00:15:33
the intelligence at this time. And so back a couple years
00:15:36
earlier, in 1986, I believe it is, they had something that was
00:15:40
called the Year of the Spy. And it was christened that by
00:15:43
Time magazine because there had been so many American spies that
00:15:48
had been arrested. They'd been, the Russians had so
00:15:51
heavily penetrated both the armed forces, the intelligence
00:15:55
services and stuff, that they were arresting Americans left
00:15:58
and right. And then in conjunction with
00:16:00
that, during that time, but then certainly in the early 90s,
00:16:05
there were this rash of Soviet agents, so so Russians recruited
00:16:11
by the CIA to spy on their behalf, who kept getting rolled
00:16:15
up and nobody could figure out why it was happening or how it
00:16:18
was happening. And the CIA and FBI both blamed
00:16:22
each other as their want to do and said that the spoiler alert
00:16:25
is that it was both of their faults because the CIA had a
00:16:29
mole named Aldrich Ames and the FBI had a special agent mole
00:16:34
named Robert Hanson. Both of these men to protect
00:16:37
themselves were giving the Soviets any anyone who might
00:16:42
know who they were and every single agent who was working on
00:16:47
the on the Americans behalf. And so you had this crazy thing
00:16:53
where the CIA was kind of afraid of their own shadow at that
00:16:58
point. And so I called up David
00:17:00
McCluskey to ask him about it because in addition to being a
00:17:02
fantastic writer, he's also a former CIA officer.
00:17:06
And he recommended a book called The Main Enemy that a guy named
00:17:10
Milt Bearden wrote and Milt or Co wrote rather.
00:17:14
And Milt was a CIA officer. He was a case officer.
00:17:17
He was head of the Near East Division.
00:17:19
He was actually during the Soviet invasion in into
00:17:22
Afghanistan. He was running covert operations
00:17:25
with the Mujahideen against the Soviets.
00:17:27
And so I read the book and I told David, I'm like, man, that
00:17:30
was phenomenal. I wish I could talk to that guy.
00:17:33
And David said, well, you know, he lives in Austin, right?
00:17:36
And so David brokered the introduction and milts in his
00:17:39
80s now. And he said, why don't you come
00:17:41
down to my office? And it was like walking into,
00:17:45
you know, like a set for Tinker Tail or Soldier spy or
00:17:48
something. Like on one wall there's this
00:17:50
picture of milk briefing President Reagan.
00:17:53
And then another one is him with his arm around the final
00:17:56
director of the KGB as there and just an incredible guy.
00:18:01
And so from he started relaying kind of the the veracity that
00:18:06
became the backbone of the book from the standpoint he tells
00:18:10
this really cool story. I can't remember if he said it
00:18:12
in the book or just to me or both.
00:18:14
But he went over to Moscow station to try and help motivate
00:18:18
them and get them back into that what they called the sticks and
00:18:21
bricks back out running agents and and doing what they're
00:18:24
supposed to. And so he's sitting with the
00:18:26
Moscow chief of station in what's called the Yellow
00:18:29
Submarine, which is the the most secure spot.
00:18:32
It's the what we call those now skiffs and it's the secure spot
00:18:37
inside the CIA annex, which is inside the embassy and and
00:18:41
there's no way anybody in the world could listen to him.
00:18:44
It's the most secure plot spot in Russia, maybe one of the most
00:18:47
secure spots in the world. And the and the CIA chief of
00:18:51
station looks at Milton. He says, sometimes I think they
00:18:54
can hear us even here. And Milt took that away and he's
00:18:57
like, Oh my gosh, the Russians have gotten so far into these
00:19:01
officers heads that the CIA had convinced itself that the
00:19:05
Soviets or Russians had invented a new form of technology that
00:19:10
they were using to surveil them because they kept losing so many
00:19:13
assets. And I thought that would be
00:19:15
great. And if there is somebody that
00:19:17
Thomas Stanfield is going to send over to Moscow station to
00:19:21
kick butt and and give him a little bit of bit of backbone,
00:19:25
who would that be? And so that was where I got to
00:19:27
bring Irene into this. Nice.
00:19:31
That's amazing you get to write Irene in a situation like that
00:19:34
based on a real old spymaster. So what an amazing resource to
00:19:38
lean on. You know, and it reminds me of
00:19:39
Vince. We didn't know this directly
00:19:42
when I was reading the books, but later on we got to talk to
00:19:44
Rob Richer, who was at the time either chief of the Near East
00:19:48
Division or, or somewhere high up working that desk.
00:19:51
And he was Vince's main contact at the CIA.
00:19:54
And so there's a, there's a character, Rob Ridley, which is
00:19:57
loosely based on Rob Richer and sounds like you're just.
00:20:00
Recreating in your own way, in your own storytelling universe,
00:20:03
all these same kind of notes, you know, that that Vince did
00:20:06
with the with the love he put into the series, you know,
00:20:09
reaching out to David, reaching out to Milt.
00:20:11
It's just amazing that you get that show right in this book.
00:20:14
And you seem to love this time period.
00:20:16
I mean, your whole explanation of the SSFSB and the FSI can
00:20:20
spend hours. It's like you're lecturing it
00:20:22
for a, for a Cold War history class.
00:20:24
Please keep going. But does that mean you might
00:20:26
want to write more and tell more stories in this time period?
00:20:29
See, I knew you guys were going to do that.
00:20:31
I. Knew you were sneaking to try
00:20:32
and do. That So what I had told told
00:20:37
Chris, even though I didn't know she was going to be here is that
00:20:40
I'm when we were together and and I owe Chris kind of an
00:20:44
inside bit that I will share with you guys now too.
00:20:49
So I'm about 44 words into the book and I never talk about
00:20:53
works in progress. I don't ever share anything, but
00:20:56
Chris told me that when when we talked, I should.
00:20:59
And so because Chris said So what I will tell you is that in
00:21:03
the book that I'm working on right now, Mitch rap is a
00:21:07
character. So that is what that is what I
00:21:09
can reveal to you at at this point the.
00:21:12
Trap lives. But what one of the other one of
00:21:16
the other super before we jump off that topic, super
00:21:20
interesting things. So the title of the book denied
00:21:22
access is actually a take off of the words denied area.
00:21:27
And so denied area is how the CIA classified Moscow itself.
00:21:32
Because the counter surveillance officers from the KGB were so
00:21:36
thick, it was really, really hard to get any work done and
00:21:40
they would be able to finger normally because Moscow station
00:21:44
was such an important CIA station, only the more senior
00:21:48
CIA officers would go there to run assets.
00:21:51
And so the KGB was good enough that they realized we're able to
00:21:55
track who the CIA officers were and knew most of the time as
00:21:59
they landed in country, even though they were under
00:22:01
diplomatic cover or whatever cover they're using.
00:22:04
These are CIA officers rather than State Department officials
00:22:07
or whatever. So the CIA to combat that
00:22:10
decided they had to take this gamble.
00:22:13
And So what they did was took a whole bunch of fresh young case
00:22:16
officers who had never been anywhere, who had just graduated
00:22:20
the farm. And they they developed this
00:22:23
curriculum in Washington, DC to mimic the streets of Moscow and
00:22:28
the kind of surveillance they were going to be under and took
00:22:31
these green case officers, ran them through the school and I
00:22:34
can't remember what the school was called, and then sent them
00:22:37
to Moscow as brand new agents on their first tour, hoping that
00:22:41
the KGB officers wouldn't realize who they were and
00:22:45
wouldn't be able to track them. And sometimes they train the
00:22:49
spouses as well. And again, to be very clear, the
00:22:52
spouses were never case officers were never meant to be doing
00:22:56
brush passes and and such. But there was the expectation
00:23:00
that some of the covers that you're there with your family.
00:23:03
And so maybe you go on this trip somewhere and dad or mom slips
00:23:07
away to go do something while the rest of the family is having
00:23:10
a picnic or something. And so I thought that would be
00:23:14
really fun to be able to bring my friend Chris into that.
00:23:16
And so she, because she married poorly and chose ACIA officer,
00:23:21
finds herself in a bad situation in Moscow.
00:23:26
Chris, what was that like? What was that like reading those
00:23:29
pages when you were in the Mitrap universe?
00:23:32
I'm just going to say I about lost my mind.
00:23:37
I couldn't believe it. And I don't know if if you guys
00:23:42
know the back story or if you're interested if I should share it
00:23:45
here or how how that came to be. I two years ago when I was at
00:23:51
the book signing with Kyle and with Don, so Kyle's last Mitch
00:23:57
rap book and Don was there with. Code This is code red.
00:24:03
Yeah, with Code Red. And Don was there with his last
00:24:09
Jack Ryan book, Weapons. Weapons grade, yeah.
00:24:16
Now, weapons grade, it's right there.
00:24:21
Yeah, nice, nice shelf back there, Chris, you are, you are
00:24:23
stocked and loaded back there on books.
00:24:27
This is a sign here for everyone.
00:24:29
It says free Chris. Free, Chris.
00:24:33
They held that up at the not to cut you off, Chris, keep telling
00:24:37
your story. But as I'm giving my talk in DC,
00:24:41
John and Bridget hold up this sign that says Free Chris.
00:24:45
That's awesome. Love it.
00:24:47
And I had just met them in person.
00:24:49
It's just so, I mean, just amazing, amazing people at that
00:24:53
signing. So such nice people.
00:24:55
But so two years ago when I was at the signing, you know, I'm of
00:25:00
course a Scott Coleman fan and Sherry was there.
00:25:03
So that was the signing that Sherry flew into Minnesota and
00:25:07
came with. So so I'm standing there and
00:25:12
he's signing and I said, you know, if Scott Coleman ever gets
00:25:16
a girlfriend, it would be super cool if her name was Chris with
00:25:20
AK. And he just laughed and laughed.
00:25:24
And I just thought, oh, this is not going to go anywhere
00:25:26
because. And, and then he said, like,
00:25:28
well, aren't you an Army family? Wouldn't that be kind of weird?
00:25:33
Because Scott Coleman's a SEAL, right?
00:25:35
So Are you sure you could do that?
00:25:37
And I said, oh, I'm pretty sure that that would be OK to use my
00:25:42
name for that. And it just goes along and
00:25:45
another year and a half goes by and I get this message.
00:25:49
She's like, well, I don't have a girlfriend for Scott in this
00:25:52
book, but if you don't mind, I could use your name for another
00:25:56
character. And I'm just like, oh, OK, sure.
00:25:59
You know, throw me in. I'll just be in there somewhere.
00:26:02
Oh, and what's your husband's name, too?
00:26:03
I'll use him. And I go, oh, intriguing.
00:26:07
Didn't ask anymore, didn't tell a soul.
00:26:10
I did not tell my husband. I did not tell you.
00:26:12
I didn't tell anyone because I was just like, OK, we'll see.
00:26:17
This is really cool. And then I read it and I'm like,
00:26:22
even my husband is reading it. He's like, you are a character
00:26:26
in the book. You are all over in this book.
00:26:29
It's just it was so cool. And the ending, I have to tell
00:26:33
you, I no spoilers. I just my character's final
00:26:38
scene. I will say it's not the ending
00:26:41
of anything. It's just like.
00:26:42
My character's final scene. Was ridiculous.
00:26:49
It was. So almost as good as being Scott
00:26:51
Coleman's girlfriend, is that what you're saying?
00:26:54
Almost, almost, almost. What does Barry think about
00:26:57
being Scott Coleman's girlfriend?
00:26:58
Now right up there. But I was just, it was so cool.
00:27:03
It was so cool. And my husband finished the book
00:27:07
and he was just like, he was like, Can you believe that that
00:27:12
happened? Can you believe that you did
00:27:13
that? Don, you've got groupies.
00:27:17
Like, you are so cool. I know, I know.
00:27:20
I'm really. You've got groupies.
00:27:22
What's it like with the fan engagement?
00:27:24
You're on tour now, so like people like Chris and Sherry,
00:27:26
she mentioned another one of our listeners.
00:27:28
They are over the moon in love with rap and by extension in
00:27:32
love with Kyle and you. And what's it like having this
00:27:35
fan base? Is it a little overbearing at
00:27:36
times? No, I think it's pretty awesome
00:27:40
because it is. I geek out about this stuff as
00:27:43
much as everybody else does. And so the I never got to meet
00:27:48
Vince, but I've gotten to know him through his family and
00:27:55
friends and stuff like that. And so it's I don't know from I
00:27:59
think he would kind of get a kick out of it.
00:28:01
And so I think, you know, these these fan and he obviously did
00:28:04
that with people that meant something to him or were fans or
00:28:07
were. I think I can't remember if his
00:28:09
brother Dan was telling me this or or Tim or or one of them that
00:28:14
he would literally go around to his hometown folks and say who
00:28:19
hasn't been in a book yet? Who have I not put in?
00:28:21
And he would find some way in like faint and Kyle famously
00:28:27
talked about, and I think it might have been Anna or
00:28:31
something like that. Her last name was Riley.
00:28:34
And he, he had thought that Vince was dyslexic, dyslexic and
00:28:38
spelled it wrong. And it was actually correct.
00:28:40
It was somebody's name. And Vincent had spelled it the
00:28:43
strange way they did. So it's it's really, really fun
00:28:46
to do and just put people in in Vince's world who love the books
00:28:51
as much as I do. That's awesome, yeah.
00:28:55
So cool, yeah. And, and I think just from the
00:28:59
the fans that I interact with to just online or or in person or
00:29:05
that I meet throughout time at the signings, just incredible
00:29:10
people that just really are so into it and just know so many
00:29:17
details about the books and the stories and it's awesome.
00:29:23
Yeah. I love it.
00:29:25
I just love. Yeah, I think there was a chance
00:29:27
at the end of or the transition, right, with the survivor.
00:29:31
And I think Kyle Mills being the torchbearer, being the the
00:29:35
custodian, the caretaker of Vince's vision and actually
00:29:38
having a few pages to go off of, of a scene that opened the
00:29:41
survivor. I just remember feeling in such
00:29:45
good hands when he was chosen and capture or kill did that for
00:29:49
me as well. I I don't want to go back in
00:29:51
time, but I again, reading that book, there was so much what's
00:29:56
next? What's going to happen?
00:29:57
What does this mean long term? And after that one, I was like,
00:30:02
wow, it, it almost is like reliving when Kyle Mills wrote
00:30:05
the survivor. I just felt that great about it.
00:30:07
And I know the fandom would unite around what you're doing.
00:30:10
And so so thank you. It's good to know Mitch rap does
00:30:12
live and Mitch rap is coming back.
00:30:16
Where though? And and when did you know not
00:30:19
only that you were, you were going to get the job, but that
00:30:21
your vision was to go back in time like, because you very
00:30:25
easily could have continued with what Kyle Mills left us with
00:30:28
Code Red, an older rap, an aging rap, a family man.
00:30:31
After 40-50 years, he finally gets the families always, always
00:30:36
wanted, but had to had to put away.
00:30:38
So how did you have your vision to to go back in time to this
00:30:41
time period? When did that start or come to
00:30:43
you? Well.
00:30:44
And even your first book also went back in time too, so yeah,
00:30:46
exactly. Yeah, So I think for capture or
00:30:50
kill, it was more I started thinking that Kyle had done a
00:30:58
fantastic job and had I said all the time, like, he could have
00:31:02
just shredded water, he could have just put out another book.
00:31:06
That was the Continuing Adventures of Mitch rap, right.
00:31:08
And he didn't. He made the universe richer and
00:31:11
broader and deeper, and he made Mitch all of those things too.
00:31:16
But I'd thought, like as I was sitting down to write Capture
00:31:19
Kill, that what I did in that every writer that comes after
00:31:24
Vince is one more step away from Vince.
00:31:27
And what I didn't want was for my Mitch to somehow be deluded
00:31:32
if it was only based on Kyles Mitch.
00:31:35
And so I, I went back and just started reading Vinces books
00:31:38
over and over and over and over again and taking the.
00:31:41
And as I read them, I read them on my Kindle, even though I have
00:31:45
paper copies of most of them because it's really easy just to
00:31:48
highlight things that are interesting or a little little
00:31:51
Nuggets that Vince throws out there or even like some of them,
00:31:55
they're pretty big deal. Like a guy is half dead and has
00:31:59
been tortured and locked up and you don't ever know what happens
00:32:01
to him. We just go on to the next book.
00:32:04
And so as I started reading those and making notes and
00:32:09
trying to just because I knew Kyle, Kyle talks about and I
00:32:14
don't think it was 3 pages. I think Vince sent him three
00:32:17
sentences and, and, or that there were three sentences of
00:32:20
that because Kyle deliberately took those three sentences and
00:32:24
put them throughout the book and wanted to see if anybody could
00:32:27
figure what they were. And so he with the survivor, he
00:32:32
made a conscious effort to do what he called a forgery that he
00:32:36
would try and write like Vince. And if you look at Kyle's a
00:32:40
super, super organized guy to the point where he has Excel
00:32:44
spreadsheets that tell him how many times he used a certain
00:32:48
curse word and how many times Vince used a certain curse word
00:32:51
or how things like to that level.
00:32:53
And I knew that I did not have the ability to write like Vince
00:32:59
any more than I had the ability to write like Tom Clancy.
00:33:02
And my editor for my books, my Matt Drake books and the Clancy,
00:33:06
when I got the Clancy gig, he told me he's like, do not try
00:33:10
and write like Tom Clancy. He said, what I want you to do
00:33:13
is basically write fan fiction in the Tom Clancy universe.
00:33:17
And he said do what you do, but do it with his characters.
00:33:20
And so as I was reading on, what I was hoping, knowing that I
00:33:24
couldn't write like Vince is that maybe I could instinctively
00:33:28
make some of the same choices that he would make.
00:33:30
Or that when I thought about Mitch, I would be thinking about
00:33:34
Mitch the way that he thought about Mitch.
00:33:36
And so like as as just trying to immerse myself into that one
00:33:42
just so that I could go back to the source, if you will, Even
00:33:45
though at the time I was still thinking that I would continue
00:33:48
on with with where Kyle left off.
00:33:52
And as I was doing it, I just, I kept coming back to that, that
00:33:56
period of time between the pursuit of honor and the last
00:34:01
man that he had left to go back and and write American Assassin
00:34:04
and kill shot. And I and I was like, I wonder
00:34:07
what happened during that time period.
00:34:09
And then I realized that it was the Bin Laden raid and thought,
00:34:11
man, that would be a cool book. And so by the same token, you
00:34:15
know, having been a fan first way, way before I even had any
00:34:20
published novels, like everybody else, I wanted to know what
00:34:24
happened. Not just what happened to Greta,
00:34:27
but what happened to a very young Mitch rap who's still
00:34:31
figuring things out, is incredibly good, but just
00:34:34
doesn't have the experience yet that the Mitch rap we meet in
00:34:37
transfer of power does. What happened to that guy and,
00:34:41
and what happened? And so when I had talked to Kyle
00:34:44
about it, I was like, did you ever, did you ever think about
00:34:47
going back and finish it? I didn't know if it was kind of
00:34:51
like holy ground where they didn't want anybody to go back
00:34:54
and finish that trilogy because Vince never got a chance.
00:34:57
And he said that he had kind of talked about it with Emily at
00:35:00
one point and never pressed really hard.
00:35:03
And, and she, Emily has a great poker face.
00:35:07
You know, when I was pitching to her, the idea I had for capture
00:35:12
or kill, we were doing it on Zoom and she was working from
00:35:14
home that day. And I want to say she was even
00:35:16
like walking around her kitchen. And I'm trying.
00:35:19
I'd never met her in person. And I'm looking at her face and
00:35:21
I'm like, she hates this idea. And not only does she hate this
00:35:25
idea, she hates me. And I'm going to get fired after
00:35:27
this. They're going to go back to Kyle
00:35:29
and be like, can you write another one?
00:35:31
And so when I got done, she just stopped whatever she was doing
00:35:33
and looked in the camera and she's like, that's a great idea.
00:35:36
You should write it. And then went back to.
00:35:38
And so I think, and I only say that to think, I wonder if some
00:35:41
of that when Kyle brought up the idea finishing, it wasn't that
00:35:45
Emily was was ambivalent about the idea is just that, you know,
00:35:51
they never really talked it through.
00:35:53
And so Kyle never did it. And I thought I'd like to know
00:35:56
that story. And I'm a super fan long before
00:35:59
I was an author. I imagine other people would
00:36:01
like to tell that, know that story too.
00:36:04
And so I talked to Emily about it.
00:36:05
And one of my biggest concerns is I feel like I, I did not, I
00:36:10
didn't lobby, not lobby hard enough.
00:36:12
That even sounds wrong. I don't think I did a good
00:36:15
enough job with capture or kill figuring out a way to make sure
00:36:20
the fans knew where that book stood.
00:36:23
And so when I where it stood in the Vince Flynn universe, even
00:36:28
though obviously bin Laden was in 2011 and you could certainly
00:36:31
by power of deduction figure out where it is, there were a lot of
00:36:36
people confused and a lot of people were like, how is Mike
00:36:39
Nash back now? What's going on with Stan
00:36:41
Hurley? And so when I talked to Emily
00:36:43
about it, I'm like, I want to finish this trilogy and I want
00:36:46
there to be no question about the fact that this is the third
00:36:49
book. And so she had the idea of
00:36:52
putting that cool little flash, you know, sticker on the front
00:36:56
that says American Assassin thriller that hopefully now it
00:36:59
doesn't queue any everybody in because I still got the what is
00:37:02
Stan Hurley doing here? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I
00:37:04
can't I can't help you at this point.
00:37:07
But it was that was kind of like people people think I had, or
00:37:11
maybe they give me too much credit that I had this nefarious
00:37:14
plan to go back in time and write these books.
00:37:16
But it was really just an outgrowth of trying to go back
00:37:22
to the source to like immerse myself in Vince's world and
00:37:26
Vince's Mitch rap. Just so that I, I think what's
00:37:31
when you asked before about the fans and the fans response, I
00:37:33
think one of the reasons fans are still so passionate about
00:37:37
this series is that it hasn't diluted has a negative
00:37:41
connotation. And I don't mean that, but the
00:37:43
Clancy universe has had so many different writers and so many
00:37:47
different books and everything. I, I wouldn't say it's diluted.
00:37:52
It's just gotten very, very big and very, and there been a lot
00:37:56
of it's kind of like if you're a Star Wars fan, right?
00:37:58
Like you can go to war with somebody about which movies are
00:38:02
good or not and what what George Lucas did with the original 3
00:38:07
where he had his wife that helped with the writing of the
00:38:10
scripts and she brought this emotional component that weren't
00:38:12
in the inlet. And so I think like you can have
00:38:14
some of those arguments with the Clancy books just because there
00:38:18
were a lot of different cooks in the kitchen and a lot of
00:38:22
different stories told than a lot of different, even though I
00:38:25
still think they did a phenomenal job making that
00:38:28
universe bigger. I think the fans look at the
00:38:31
Vince Flynn universe and it's much tighter.
00:38:33
There's only been now 2 writers besides Vince.
00:38:37
There aren't spin off series in it.
00:38:40
There aren't any of those things, which I like I said, I'm
00:38:42
not saying that's bad that they're in the Clancy universe,
00:38:45
but I think it makes the Flynn universe feel much more compact.
00:38:50
Even though there's 25 books there and fans have I, I guess
00:38:55
maybe another to look at is I don't think I could name all the
00:38:59
different Clancy books because there've been so many and
00:39:02
there's so many different writers.
00:39:04
I don't know that every fan could name every Mitch Rapp
00:39:07
book, but I think most folks could say here's the 25, Vince
00:39:11
wrote this many, Kyle wrote 9 after that, here's his first
00:39:14
because maybe the universe feels more manageable than some of the
00:39:19
other ones do. And I think, I think the fans
00:39:21
respond to that. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:39:25
And me and Mike were talking about it when your first book
00:39:28
came out and it's you, you kind of like reference on it.
00:39:31
But it almost feels like I understand why you wouldn't want
00:39:35
to, like you said, delude yourself.
00:39:38
Like you want to give yourself an the option to, you know, sort
00:39:41
of one, put your stake on it. But then also like truly, you
00:39:44
know, you are taking over for, for this is Vince's baby is you
00:39:48
know, so I like the choice of of what you did.
00:39:53
I appreciate that. I think the other way I looked
00:39:55
at it too, is that for capture or kill specifically?
00:39:58
Because I was sliding it in between those two books.
00:40:01
I almost had Vince's like my training wheels.
00:40:04
It's like, hey, I can put this book in here as long as I can
00:40:08
figure out a way that tells the story but then still leaves the,
00:40:12
you know, the universe unchanged after that.
00:40:15
I've got Vince on either side of me and so I'm not really
00:40:18
breaking new ground even though I'm telling a new story.
00:40:21
And so that was kind of another thought.
00:40:23
And this one was sort of like that too, even though I think
00:40:26
there is there was more of a gap of story certainly after Kill
00:40:33
Shot, because there were so many years and such a big change in
00:40:36
character right from Mitch Rapp of Kill Shot to Mitch Rapp of
00:40:41
Transfer of Power. Yeah, transfer of power.
00:40:44
He's already talking about getting out of the game.
00:40:47
Getting some of the early. Scenes that's the first time
00:40:49
he's ever written yeah and then there's the ever elusive topic
00:40:53
of where is he during term limits as a real deep cut for
00:40:56
fans so that's you know more more room in the in the sandbox
00:40:59
to play around with one day hopefully for yourself or
00:41:03
wherever the series goes yeah the other thing about continuing
00:41:06
in the present day timeline different series age characters
00:41:09
very differently. We've we've talked with so many
00:41:11
different people. Brad Thore has a take on it.
00:41:14
Kyle Mills had a take on it. The Clancy verse has a take on
00:41:16
it. You go to the children, the
00:41:17
grandchildren and you know, you make this multi generational.
00:41:21
The way you were saying about the, the tightness of the rap
00:41:24
verse, I don't know who takes that bold step.
00:41:27
Is that a decision that Emily Besler should be involved in?
00:41:30
Lisa and the the Flynn estate should be involved in?
00:41:33
Because that'd be a big step to say either a post rap era or a
00:41:37
rap as the older, yeah, Stan Hurley type or even any of the
00:41:41
kids. You know, Tommy Kennedy's out
00:41:43
there somewhere in the universe. Rory Nash is out there in the
00:41:45
universe. Yeah.
00:41:46
It, it could be an open book. But do we want it to be an open
00:41:49
book? I don't know.
00:41:51
Yeah, and I think in again, I've never, I don't know who could
00:41:54
confirm this besides Vince himself or maybe Emily.
00:41:57
I've never asked Emily directly about it.
00:41:59
But I get the sense that, and I can't remember if Kyle and I
00:42:02
talked about it, maybe we did that.
00:42:04
I get the sense of that Vince was trying that out in the first
00:42:07
book where Mike Nash made his appearance, right.
00:42:09
Because there was so much of it that was from Mike's perspective
00:42:13
and so much devoted to his character and his family life
00:42:16
and his kids how to do it. And my sense is that the at the
00:42:20
time, the fans, not that they didn't like that book, but did
00:42:24
not want, they wanted Mitch Rapp.
00:42:26
They didn't want a spin off of Mitch Rapp.
00:42:28
They don't want back then. Obviously, maybe that's not the
00:42:33
case now. Maybe you know, folks all the
00:42:35
time that some of the people like what you guys said, some of
00:42:38
the people that have read this book said, man, wouldn't it be
00:42:41
awesome if we saw Thomas Stanfield more of his early
00:42:45
years, you know, whether it was World War 2 or thing or same
00:42:48
with Stan Hurley or something as well.
00:42:51
But there whenever you do that, there's trade-offs for it,
00:42:53
right? Because you're you're making the
00:42:56
universe bigger. It's got more branches and
00:42:58
sequels in it. And you're probably not unless
00:43:02
they bring in another writer, kind of like what they do for
00:43:04
the Clancy. Then you're not going to have a
00:43:06
Mitch wrap book that that year, right?
00:43:08
You're going to have one or the other and stuff.
00:43:10
And I think still to me, the whole the whole series or the
00:43:15
whole crux of the series is Mitch rap.
00:43:18
But it's Mitch rap because he is such a unique character and was
00:43:23
he was the first protagonist that was post 911 who was, hey,
00:43:30
we're going to go hunt our enemies down and shoot him in
00:43:33
the face and we're going to go on their home turf to do it.
00:43:36
And he really gave voice to this nation that had just been
00:43:41
grievously harmed and could not believe that September 11th
00:43:46
could happen. And here's this guy who said,
00:43:49
hey, I got this. And, and not just that, but that
00:43:52
Mitch Rapp does bad things to bad people.
00:43:55
But those bad things do not corrupt him as a person, right?
00:43:59
They don't alter his compass. He doesn't.
00:44:02
Lots of crime fiction, I think becomes a study in the
00:44:07
devolution of human beings, right?
00:44:09
Like how, how you know, whether you look at like breaking Brad
00:44:13
or something, it's, it's kind of becomes like how awful can a
00:44:17
person become in, in a quest to do XY or Z, right.
00:44:22
I think you can make the argument that the Mitch Rapp
00:44:24
series has a lot of awful things that certainly you or I or
00:44:30
normal human beings wouldn't want to do.
00:44:32
But it never causes Mitch Rapp to not be who he is.
00:44:36
You don't have to worry that he is going to, you know, turn into
00:44:41
somebody that that starts wantonly committing murder or
00:44:45
that it corrupts him or that it does it.
00:44:47
And I think I, I think that from again, getting to know more
00:44:52
events through his family and stuff, I think Vince believed in
00:44:55
that. I think Vince believed in good
00:44:58
and evil as not abstract, calm concepts.
00:45:01
It's things that different that existed.
00:45:04
I think he believed in the nobility of our country and that
00:45:07
we are that's that bright city, you know, shining on a hilltop
00:45:11
that all of those things that we talk about that we use words for
00:45:15
patriotism of God and country and stuff, those I think are all
00:45:18
things that Vince held dearly and believed in.
00:45:22
And you can see that in this character that is a lot
00:45:26
different than other characters sometimes even in this genre,
00:45:29
even though, you know, all of us who write after Vince, certainly
00:45:33
my Matt Drake books were influenced by the Mitch rap
00:45:36
books that I lived. I think all of us that right
00:45:38
after him have taken something from that.
00:45:40
But that he he put that line in the sand and said Mitch rap is
00:45:45
not going to become, you know, some, you know, contract killer
00:45:51
or something like that. Whatever it is, this is who he
00:45:53
is and he represents the best of us.
00:45:56
And even though he has to do really bad things, he's still
00:46:00
always going to represent the best of us.
00:46:02
And I think that's very unique. Yeah, no, that's that's you said
00:46:07
it perfectly. Speaking of Matt Drake, are are
00:46:11
we going to any, any, can you say any word about where Matt
00:46:16
Drake stands right now? So after my 4th book, which was
00:46:21
Forgotten War, my publisher asked me to write a standalone
00:46:26
because what happens, he said, you know, the books are are
00:46:28
selling, but I would love to have them sell better.
00:46:32
And when you write a standalone, it's the opportunity for the
00:46:35
publisher to treat you as a debut author again.
00:46:38
And so most of the time in traditional publishing, you get
00:46:42
the most money, the most advertising, the most whatever
00:46:45
when it's your very first book because you don't have a sales
00:46:48
record yet. And so you're this whole blank
00:46:51
canvas. And so a day stand alone is very
00:46:55
much like that because it's another book where they can
00:46:58
market it as something different, especially if you're
00:47:00
writing something that's adjacent but in the same
00:47:03
universe. And so I'm about halfway done
00:47:06
with that stand alone, but I've been putting it aside.
00:47:09
I always I can do about a project in 1/4 or a project and
00:47:13
a half. And so the first project is
00:47:15
always is always Mitch Rap. And then in the afternoons or if
00:47:19
I've gotten my word countdown for that week, I might spend
00:47:22
Saturday working on my side project.
00:47:25
And so recently my side project has been a the pilot episode for
00:47:31
for ATV series that would be based on without sanction.
00:47:34
And so about a year ago, we signed a deal with a with a
00:47:40
Hollywood studio and they brought in a couple of writers
00:47:44
to look at the book and look at adapting it for a pilot.
00:47:48
And so both of them passed. And I found I was constantly
00:47:51
trying to explain like this is what makes the books unique.
00:47:53
This is what makes the story unique.
00:47:56
This is how it's different from what's out there now.
00:47:58
And so after this, the second or third writer passed, I said,
00:48:02
hey, how about if I write the pilot?
00:48:04
And not expecting them to say, yeah, that'd be a great idea,
00:48:07
won't you? Why don't you do that?
00:48:09
And so after I got off the phone from him, I called up my good
00:48:12
buddy Chris Hottie, who was a screenplay writer for a living.
00:48:16
And I said, hey, so how about you help me figure out how to
00:48:19
write a pilot? And so he was kind enough to, to
00:48:22
send some resources my way and then provided notes for the
00:48:27
first, I think, 2 versions of the pilot that I went through.
00:48:30
And so I sent in the first version of the pilot in, I think
00:48:37
it was the end of July. And then they came back.
00:48:39
We got together about two weeks ago and the producers really,
00:48:43
really liked it and said, hey, here a couple notes that I want
00:48:46
you to go back and do another rewrite for.
00:48:49
So I did that about two weeks ago.
00:48:52
And one of them is on location filming somewhere else now.
00:48:56
But I got an an e-mail actually yesterday saying, hey, when he
00:49:01
gets back, we'll circle back. And so still a long shot.
00:49:04
Like Hollywood is kind of where we as Thriller writers all go to
00:49:07
die because that siren song is so beguiling.
00:49:11
And so it's very easy to to figure out, forget what your day
00:49:15
job is and chase that. But I don't know.
00:49:18
It's it's been kind of fun. It's still a long shot, but
00:49:20
we're getting closer. So that would be super cool.
00:49:23
Yeah. We'll see.
00:49:26
Very cool. Yeah, I do enjoy when we get a
00:49:28
good old donbentley.com newsletter e-mail update because
00:49:32
we also get the Mitch rap ones from you and it is nice to hear
00:49:35
a little bit about Matt Drake and what's going on every once
00:49:37
in awhile. So.
00:49:38
Yeah, for sure. Thanks for the peek behind the
00:49:41
curtain it it's very clear to all of us that you were the
00:49:45
right person for the job to take over the Mitch rap universe.
00:49:48
I said it before in Don we trust and you've given us no reason
00:49:52
not to trust you in the first two books and whatever comes
00:49:55
next looking forward to it and beyond with Matt Drake as well.
00:49:58
We're we're we're looking forward to that.
00:50:00
Everything you write, we're going to cover on the podcast
00:50:02
because we're such big fans and our audience loves it.
00:50:05
They they they love talking. Matt Drake and capture kill got
00:50:08
a lot of buzz on the on the social channels.
00:50:10
So thank you for doing what you do.
00:50:12
Thanks for spending this time with with us and Mitch Rap Liv,
00:50:16
thanks to you. Absolutely, I got my Mitch Rap
00:50:19
Liv shirt on and everything too so.
00:50:21
There we go there. You go.
00:50:23
Thanks, Don. Thanks, Don.