"Irene Kennedy doesn't miss." In this episode, Chris and Mike delve into the latest Mitch Rapp novel, 'Denied Access', discussing its characters, themes, and reflections on the book's place within the series.
In this conversation, the hosts delve into the complexities of Mitch Rapp's character evolution, exploring themes of personal relationships, mentorship, and the moral dilemmas faced by spies. They discuss the dynamics of teamwork and trust in high-stakes situations, the interplay of historical context with modern espionage, and the impact of personal sacrifice. The conversation also touches on political intrigue and its significance in the narrative, culminating in reflections on the future of Mitch Rapp and the series as a whole.
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CHAPTERS
03:02 Exploring Don Bentley's Vision for Mitch Rapp
09:01 Character Development: Mitch Rapp's Evolution
14:31 Critiques and Expectations for Future Books
20:47 Thematic Elements: Personal Stakes and Growth
24:03 Action and Tactical Decisions in the Narrative
26:55 Conclusion and Future Directions for the Series
39:03 Historical Context and Character Arcs
41:07 The Impact of Cold War History
43:38 Changing Dynamics of Espionage
46:05 Mitch Rapp's Heroics
48:04 Action and Suspense in Key Scenes
54:52 Scorecard: Evaluating Action and Plot
01:04:33 Character Analysis: The Good and the Bad
01:07:33 Setting the Scene: Locations and Atmosphere
01:10:39 Cover Art: Aesthetic and Symbolism
01:19:37 Final Thoughts and Future Expectations
01:44:14 Personal Reflections and Author Interactions
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KEYWORDS:
Mitch Rapp, Denied Access, Don Bentley, thriller novels, character analysis, Irene Kennedy, spy fiction, book review, American Assassin, Vince Flynn, Mitch Rapp, espionage, personal relationships, mentorship, teamwork, moral choices, history, political intrigue, sacrifice, thriller
#NoLimitsPodcast #ThrillerPodcast #ThrillerPod #SpyThrillers
00:00:15
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
00:00:19
And welcome back to this week's No Limits.
00:00:22
And you heard it right, the Mitch Rap podcast.
00:00:26
We are changing it up this week. I'm super excited, Mike.
00:00:30
We have a new Mitch rap book to talk about Denied access, the
00:00:37
second book by Don Bentley in the series and the third book in
00:00:42
the American Assassin Trilogy, The 3rd and final maybe story in
00:00:48
the American Assassin Trilogy started by Vince Flynn.
00:00:50
But before we get into all of that, we want to take a minute
00:00:54
to tell you this episode and all of our episodes are made
00:00:58
possible thanks to our fantastic group of patrons.
00:01:02
If you would like to join the Thriller Pod Book Club, you
00:01:06
could be the reason. We can make more podcasts, all
00:01:08
for less than the price of a novel a month.
00:01:10
So visit thrillerpod.com, click the Patreon or book club tab to
00:01:14
learn more and we'd love to have you on the group chat talking
00:01:18
all things thrillers. The Thrillerpod Book Club is
00:01:21
where it's at and we talked a lot of Mitch Rap last night on
00:01:24
the Thrillerpod Book Club hangout.
00:01:27
I know we were up late and we had to cut it off like this.
00:01:30
Were around 11. I had to get to bed.
00:01:32
That was good. It was it was a nice discussion.
00:01:34
Three hour hangout was it? It was about 3 hours almost.
00:01:38
Yeah. 2 1/2, Yeah. Three hours, yeah.
00:01:40
Late night metro. That was good, dude.
00:01:45
But like I, I'm so ready to talk this book with you.
00:01:48
You know it. We had an opportunity last week
00:01:52
to talk to Don. We we got him on the pod.
00:01:55
Yes. We had Chris make a cameo
00:01:58
appearance in in our interview. You know, I it was nice to be
00:02:03
able to talk to him and like sort of dig into his thought
00:02:06
process, understand like, you know, why 1 he wanted to do this
00:02:11
book. Why now, like sort of dive into
00:02:14
why he chose to do capture and kill the last one.
00:02:18
And I think, you know, I was kind of trying on the pod to,
00:02:23
you know, bring up the fact that that's what we kind of had said,
00:02:26
but without like being too overly his top.
00:02:27
But I I think we nailed it on the head and, and and the fact
00:02:31
that it made more sense for him to want to establish himself
00:02:37
only based off of 1 author, then based off of not one, but two
00:02:41
authors. And then you just get in a
00:02:44
sense, get more and more deluded away from like what the true
00:02:48
essence essence of Mitch was. And like, you know, I think
00:02:51
picking what he did in in in capture kill was a great, you
00:02:56
know, idea, like slide it in doesn't have like super amount
00:03:02
of consequences, but then like till then level it up and, you
00:03:07
know, to take on, you know, what all these fans have been
00:03:11
clamoring for for years. You know, it it it's interesting
00:03:15
to hear him talk about. Well, I just went for it and he
00:03:20
didn't kind of say that. Like, I guess he he did bring it
00:03:22
up. The fact that like Amelia
00:03:23
Bessler, you know, her personality, whatever, and, you
00:03:26
know, maybe Kyle had said it, but you know, just decided not
00:03:30
to press and, and he was like, I'm going to press and that
00:03:33
that's what he did. And and that now we have the
00:03:35
conclusion to to the I don't know why I call it the kill shot
00:03:38
trilogy, but like the American Assassin trilogy, but.
00:03:42
He shot his shot. You're right.
00:03:44
He he shot his shot. Sounded like and a nice tribute
00:03:47
at the end to his agent who really made the deal possible
00:03:50
and and to his family. All the best for them.
00:03:53
Really fitting to hear that they went for it, and it was really
00:03:57
great to hear Emily Besler tell him, go for it.
00:04:00
Like sometimes we think of the Mitch Rap series as very
00:04:03
protected and very guarded as as maybe it should be with a lot of
00:04:07
gatekeepers. The, the Flynn estate, Lisa, for
00:04:09
one, the fans #2 and you would hope the publishing house as
00:04:13
well. They have a very vested interest
00:04:15
in keeping the fans around and making sure the the hardcores
00:04:19
among us are satisfied with the direction it's going.
00:04:22
We also kind of talked about and compared it to the Clancy verse,
00:04:25
which Don has been in, and he seems to also understand that's
00:04:29
not what Vince Flynn's legacy should be.
00:04:31
It's been handled very well for the Clancy verse, but maybe this
00:04:35
one doesn't need to become that open-ended.
00:04:37
So it's at the same time, I think it's really great to hear
00:04:39
that. You know, the person at the top
00:04:42
said go for it, take your vision and run with it.
00:04:45
We want to give an author creative license to do that.
00:04:48
But at the same time, this thing is not going to become just a
00:04:51
dime a dozen. Any author can get a shot at it.
00:04:53
We hire a bunch of people. Flavour of the week, flavour of
00:04:56
the year, new author comes in open door policy.
00:04:59
And it's, it seems like a really nice balance that he's getting
00:05:01
to do what he's passionate about in the series.
00:05:04
And and the most solace of all comes from the fact that he is
00:05:08
through and through one of us. He's one of us 100% that.
00:05:13
Yeah, I wasn't quite sure. Not, not that like, you know,
00:05:17
mainly because you never know 100% what a person is just like
00:05:21
from watching them on social media, Facebook, listening to
00:05:24
them on podcasts, you can kind of get a sense for them.
00:05:27
But when, when he sat down and talked to us and, you know,
00:05:30
answering these questions, pulling off, you know, like, you
00:05:35
know, being able to recite like all this stuff, you can tell. 1
00:05:40
He did his research and two, that he he cared about doing his
00:05:44
research and that first he was a Mitch rap fan and that he cares
00:05:48
about nurturing this and taking it on.
00:05:50
And I got that came through way more talking to him, you know,
00:05:56
not face to face. It was over over Zoom.
00:05:58
But like it just that's like the biggest thing I took away from
00:06:02
being able to interview him is that like I definitely feel
00:06:05
comfortable, more comfortable now, even even though after
00:06:09
reading two of his books, like I think he truly is, was was a
00:06:11
really good choice to to take this franchise on.
00:06:15
I've yeah, talking to him solidified that.
00:06:18
It was clear to me after capture or kill as well.
00:06:21
We were very high on that book. Go back, listen to our take on
00:06:24
it. Really enjoyed it because that
00:06:26
was a big X Factor. Same with Kyle Mills back in the
00:06:29
day. What was the survivor going to
00:06:31
be? And it's kind of cool to hear
00:06:33
Don say that he wants to be very different.
00:06:36
Where Kyle set out to do a forgery.
00:06:38
I thought it was a great way that Kyle's put it is he wanted
00:06:41
to be 1 to 1 to Vince. It was very clear in Capture
00:06:44
Kill Don was not that it wasn't his style, wasn't his
00:06:47
personality, wasn't his vision for the story, which could have
00:06:51
spiralled out of control, could have ticked off a lot of people.
00:06:54
But he still paid so much reverence, so much homage to the
00:06:58
source material. I just think he balanced it
00:07:01
perfectly. And yet it was so unique in his
00:07:03
own way, where Kyle almost did the opposite of he did it
00:07:06
perfectly. You wouldn't even know it was
00:07:08
him. You would think it was Vince.
00:07:10
It was a fitting tribute to Stan Hurley.
00:07:12
It was a great handling of what happens after the last man.
00:07:16
And then even with Anna, I could totally see Vince and his
00:07:20
background, his faith, kind of having that family focus and
00:07:24
really worrying about the girl and and even Claude, you know,
00:07:27
Claudia and Anna, their package, that whole vision was like so
00:07:30
Kyle Mills, but also so Vince and everything in Capture or
00:07:33
Kill and denied Access is so Don Bentley, but also paying homage
00:07:38
to Vince. And that's a really hard thing
00:07:41
to do. So shout out to Don.
00:07:42
I felt way better about it after the interview.
00:07:45
But man, he got me With Capture or Kill, I was all in.
00:07:48
I will put a caveat though. We, me, you, the fans may not
00:07:53
agree with every move being made.
00:07:55
There are things in any book that come up that we don't like
00:07:58
or sections of it that aren't working.
00:08:00
So any criticism and critiques moving forward, it's really good
00:08:04
to know are just like any critiques we'd give to any book.
00:08:09
Because in the Midrap series, once you start critiquing
00:08:11
things, you know, you're walking on hallowed ground saying Vince,
00:08:14
you know, if you don't like, like a lot of Vince books, the
00:08:18
fan base will, will maybe become very argumentative.
00:08:21
So I, I think Don Bentley's toeing a fine line of his style,
00:08:24
his voice, even if not everything works for you, even
00:08:28
if these aren't your favorite books, you cannot deny the fact
00:08:32
he's respecting the series. He's respecting the fans and
00:08:35
most importantly, he's respecting Vince and the
00:08:37
characters that he built. 100% And I think you know probably
00:08:43
for me one of the best things that I'm taking away from both
00:08:48
capture kill in a sense and of denied access is this going back
00:08:53
in time and and seeing a younger rap.
00:08:57
I think that's where he's been able to excel.
00:09:00
Yeah, especially in this book. I, I, I feel like that's one of
00:09:03
the big things that really shines.
00:09:08
Like, especially with some of the dialogue with with rap and
00:09:11
like getting in his mind and you could see the progression.
00:09:14
I'm, I'm thinking back to how he acted in American Assassin and
00:09:17
then kill shot and then, you know, following it up here.
00:09:22
It it fits, it makes sense. And I feel like, Don, you know,
00:09:25
if he wants to continue in this young rap era, I, I wouldn't be
00:09:29
that upset. I, I, I think that's a, it's a,
00:09:32
it's a good place for him to potentially live that there's a
00:09:35
lot of time between denied access and transfer of power.
00:09:42
You know, it's it, that's a, it's a huge question.
00:09:44
Like, where do you go from here? Because then after this dude
00:09:47
just. Would it be awkward just to jump
00:09:49
right ahead to after code red? That would almost be more
00:09:54
jarring than finding another random time to slot into.
00:09:59
It's a great question. I don't want to put the cart
00:10:01
before the horse, but you could jump to the ending of this book
00:10:04
and say what's next. I almost want to start the
00:10:06
discussion with what do we do next?
00:10:08
And it's anybody's guess. I opened it up on our book club
00:10:11
hangout last night with the thriller pod patrons and almost
00:10:14
everybody. I I don't know.
00:10:16
I can't even venture a guess. I don't feel comfortable saying
00:10:19
if the next book is a denied Access sequel if it's in the
00:10:23
time period of term limits. Where's Mitch during term
00:10:27
limits? I tried to get that out of Don
00:10:29
to hear if that had a role. He had a little glint in his eye
00:10:32
when I said that. So furious.
00:10:34
I am curious. Or if you could see him like
00:10:36
maybe jumping forward a couple years A.
00:10:38
Couple years before transfer of power, Yeah.
00:10:41
I mean, if you think about it, all the things you and I
00:10:44
discussed when we heard there's going to be a Kill Shot sequel
00:10:48
almost were tiptoed around or not directly addressed.
00:10:52
Like really great. We come out of the Paul Cook
00:10:55
scandal, the the end of kill shot and the Stan Hurley
00:10:59
development. Obviously Stan Hurley needs to
00:11:02
go on an arc from the American assassin kill shot.
00:11:05
Stan Hurley, he and Mitch at the very end of kill shot.
00:11:08
You could tell Vince wanted to show a little bit of healing, a
00:11:12
little bit of understanding between the two after how
00:11:16
basically Stan and Victor were trying to kill Mitch for two
00:11:20
books, first wash him out of the program, and then second, kill
00:11:23
him. You could see at the end of Kill
00:11:25
Shot, Hurley saved his bacon, you know, getting him out.
00:11:28
Hey kid, you need a ride. Great cameo.
00:11:30
That line at the end of this one, but with Alicia, who we'll
00:11:33
have to talk about. I just think it was perfectly
00:11:36
played to come after Kill Shot, yet it didn't address everything
00:11:39
we want. Rafiq Aziz missed the meeting at
00:11:43
the end of Spoiler Alert Big Guys.
00:11:45
If you haven't guessed by now, we We are the Aftershock.
00:11:48
We're going to we're going to spoil all these.
00:11:51
We're spoiling everything in the Vince Flynn universe up until
00:11:53
denied access and including denied access.
00:11:56
But Rafik Aziz was the getaway man.
00:11:58
He was like waiting at an airport or something for Paul
00:12:00
Cook and all the other traders, you know, to leave that meeting.
00:12:03
So he's left dangling out there. We know about the scar from
00:12:06
transfer power. That scene has not yet been
00:12:08
written. That's a dangler.
00:12:10
I'm not satisfied with where Greta ends up.
00:12:14
The Doc Lewis conversation. I guess you're going to get our
00:12:17
honest takes. The Doc Lewis conversation was
00:12:20
pretty well done. That was that was pretty cool
00:12:22
fitting ending. But just we broke up.
00:12:24
There is more Greta story to tell.
00:12:27
Like if that is enough of a reason for her to be written out
00:12:30
of Mitch's life and not only written out of Mitch's life.
00:12:34
Basically, you know, in ancient Rome it was called the damn
00:12:36
Natio when they wanted to erase an emperor, let's say from the
00:12:41
public record because of the petty next emperor wanted to
00:12:44
forget them. They did not only like remove
00:12:47
you from the historical records, they erased everything.
00:12:51
Public monuments were redone, whitewashed, scratched out.
00:12:54
They actually actively had all the scribes going through every
00:12:57
record, removing your name, making it look like you never
00:12:59
existed. For Mitch to do that to Greta
00:13:03
almost make it like she never exist.
00:13:05
I'm not satisfied with the answer.
00:13:06
We broke up, so I think the conversation was fine.
00:13:11
But I almost I'm not taking that as a criticism.
00:13:13
I'm saying I think it's a dangling, I think it's an open
00:13:15
door. I I think that's because Donna
00:13:18
wants to tell more story could be wrong.
00:13:21
But the ending didn't satisfy of what happened to Greta for me.
00:13:24
And I think the reason is something else has to happen.
00:13:28
Am I wrong? Am I off?
00:13:31
Yeah. I mean that that's probably like
00:13:32
my, you know, if we're going to if we're going to talk biggest
00:13:37
gripes now, I'd I'd say like the that is a big question.
00:13:45
But at the same time, I was a little bit torn because when we
00:13:52
get that line, we broke up, I was like, what?
00:13:55
Wait, what? That's it.
00:13:58
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine. Especially because of like, you
00:14:03
know, the other chapters we've gotten in the book about his
00:14:05
love and how he didn't think he could like say it again.
00:14:07
And he's he just had that conversation where like he's
00:14:11
living. He can't live with like the
00:14:13
ghost of Mary slash Maureen then.
00:14:20
But then finishing that with the Lewis conversation and
00:14:27
understanding, like from his perspective, he was like, all
00:14:30
right, I was born to do this. I don't know, like, did
00:14:32
something click? He realized that he can't be
00:14:37
with anyone like kind of like a Brad Thor, Scott Harvath kind of
00:14:42
situation that he is the cancer and that is the only way that he
00:14:46
could potentially do it. Now I will say, you know what
00:14:50
could save it, right, Is like if Don does right in the in the
00:14:55
future, we get some clarity, you know, maybe some introspection
00:14:59
in Mitch's head. You know, if if that is the only
00:15:03
thing we get is just I broke up and like again, she's like you
00:15:07
said, defaced or what's the Roman term?
00:15:10
Yeah. The damn.
00:15:12
Be like if that's a. Nation, the damnation.
00:15:16
I'll be, I'll be a little disappointed, but I, I will say
00:15:20
I think he kind of, it's saved a little bit by the conversation
00:15:24
with. The well, the vision and the
00:15:26
part of the conversation where he regales telling the vision,
00:15:31
he saw that perfect life, He saw the life he he always wanted,
00:15:34
the dream life. And then when he says, but it
00:15:37
wasn't me in the vision, it was, it was somebody else's dream.
00:15:40
And Greta deserves that. And whoever, whatever lady
00:15:43
friends I, I might mess up in the future, they deserve that
00:15:47
other guy. Or if not that other guy, they
00:15:48
deserve that other life. And it's not my life.
00:15:51
It won't be my life. I think that you're right.
00:15:55
Definitely saves it, definitely handles it well.
00:15:58
Doc Lewis cameo never going to say no to that.
00:16:01
But part of me still wants a little more of rap to dig into
00:16:06
and maybe it's with Doc Lewis in the future.
00:16:08
They have some sessions that really like he throws the paper
00:16:11
at him, right? Like he he shows that little
00:16:13
edge of disgust when Doc Lewis mouths off about you just going
00:16:16
to go kill unarmed people trying to get a rise out of him.
00:16:19
Really tasteful because Doc Lewis always had that.
00:16:21
He had to be edgy. He's operating at the margins at
00:16:25
a team like Orion and I'm sure all other special forces are
00:16:28
operating at the margins, not just the physicality, but of
00:16:32
mental fortitude. And so a Doc Lewis, a shrink
00:16:35
like that, and RAP even calls it out.
00:16:36
You're an excellent shrink. I I see why this program needs
00:16:39
you, why they hired you. You're the right person for it.
00:16:42
But don't try to come at me with that psych bullshit.
00:16:44
I think they got to dig in more of that.
00:16:47
And we have to see RAP almost double down on why he has to
00:16:51
forget Greta. A simple breakup in him talking
00:16:53
about the vision to me is not enough.
00:16:55
It's a step forward. But I need to hear Rap either
00:16:59
verbalize or through some very intense sessions, come out and
00:17:02
say it's done the same way. Here's here's how I was kind of
00:17:06
explaining it in one conversation.
00:17:10
You know how there's always a torture scene and it's like
00:17:13
people always break? And even when Irene Kennedy was
00:17:16
taken, she's like trying to categorize in her mind and like
00:17:19
put in little boxes all the important stuff.
00:17:22
So like when they break her, they get the the mumbo jumbo,
00:17:25
the unimportant stuff. Like you have to categorize your
00:17:27
mind. I think rap has to go through a
00:17:29
process of putting Greta so far into his subconscious that can
00:17:34
never be activated. And rap has to like double down
00:17:37
on his training to be the one guy who will never, ever, ever,
00:17:40
ever break. Because if he gives up Greta, if
00:17:43
somebody realizes Greta can be something to dangle in front of
00:17:47
him in the future, which never happens for the next, what, 40
00:17:50
years, 30 years? We know it doesn't happen.
00:17:53
I think he has to do some intense training or realization
00:17:57
where he realizes everyone breaks.
00:18:00
I'm going to be unbreakable and I'm going to put her so far back
00:18:03
into my mind. And maybe Doc Lewis helps him
00:18:05
with that. Maybe Doc Lewis goes off grid,
00:18:07
off reservation, does some crazy psych shit to help him get to
00:18:11
that point. I don't know.
00:18:12
But I I want to see that journey a little bit more.
00:18:15
The conversation was awesome. I don't know if it was enough
00:18:18
though for me. Yeah, I guess, you know, Don
00:18:23
addressed it at least, you know, he he that was a minimum had had
00:18:27
to address it, but still leaves us wanting a little bit more.
00:18:33
So, yeah, I I'd say what's our beak?
00:18:37
But definitely, you know, we we we want to go back back to that
00:18:40
pie. I hope so.
00:18:42
You want to know a gem, though, of how Greta's handled right
00:18:45
when she's first introduced, when we're getting her physical
00:18:47
description, when we're getting her connection, their love.
00:18:50
Listen to this absolute gem of a quote.
00:18:54
When Rap decided to kill somebody, very few people could
00:18:57
change his mind. Greta was an exception.
00:19:00
So was her grandfather. Boom.
00:19:03
Like, I'm not saying Greta was mishandled that, because things
00:19:06
like that. And most of their time together
00:19:08
was phenomenal. Yeah, no, I think like from that
00:19:13
to them, except for the one scene which we've already talked
00:19:18
about off mic and we we can bring it up the the I was a
00:19:21
little bit confused with the Barcelona scene.
00:19:24
The the opening of this book kind of had me a little bit hung
00:19:27
up and then I think it hits. It is a very nice stride once we
00:19:32
get into the whole espionage, you know, Moscow rules type
00:19:38
stuff. But until we got there, I was
00:19:42
like, all right, what? What are we doing?
00:19:44
You know, why did he decided to put in this museum that wasn't
00:19:52
actually even created at the time that that he said He said
00:19:55
at the end, yeah. Like, what was Mitch doing like
00:19:59
in that museum? Like I can forgive alone.
00:20:01
I can forgive the anachronism of the museum wasn't there in this
00:20:04
specific year 90 whatever it was like sure great like the
00:20:09
museum's there now. It was there a few years later.
00:20:10
Put it in write about it, but but I almost can't forgive the
00:20:13
operational. I'm going to say operational
00:20:15
error of rap. Who is this Wiz kid to abandon
00:20:19
Greta at a table? He knows there's a tale and yes,
00:20:22
he thinks it's for him. Multiple people I talk to.
00:20:24
He thinks it's for him. He thinks the the the
00:20:26
surveillance team is watching him, but to leave her at a table
00:20:30
when the surveillance team saw you with her to then go pay for
00:20:33
a ticket at a museum to go up to the second story to get better
00:20:37
sight lines. I know nothing about security.
00:20:39
I know nothing about the world of operations.
00:20:42
That just seems like a bone headed move to leave your girl
00:20:45
at a table when this team's on you.
00:20:49
I and then the skateboarding chick I get it was supposed to
00:20:52
show like raps dexterity or something how he catches her and
00:20:55
then later when he's got to save Greta, the skateboarding chick
00:20:57
gets in her way. Like there was so many
00:21:00
extemporaneous details in that scene.
00:21:03
Now, was it cool when he jumps on the hood of the car is about
00:21:05
to shoot the Olmeyer security team who's really protecting
00:21:08
Greta? That was pretty dope.
00:21:10
You know, like we get out of the jam, but just a little too long
00:21:13
linger on on what his moves are in the square.
00:21:15
It wasn't the most gripping hook and tactically for the wonder
00:21:18
kid coming out of kill shot, an American assassin.
00:21:21
He's the child prodigy of this world, and it seems he's making
00:21:25
a lot of blunders and letting Greta get taken.
00:21:29
I I don't know if I bought that in his character.
00:21:31
So yeah, a little hard to get over.
00:21:33
I'm not sure what was going on with that scene.
00:21:35
We very quickly come out of it, though, I think, because the
00:21:38
next cut, I think we see rap is him talking to Harold Meyer.
00:21:41
And so when he's sitting with with Papa or Grandfather
00:21:44
Olmeyer, I'm loving that conversation.
00:21:46
So I'm glad we kind of came out of it.
00:21:48
But yeah. Yeah.
00:21:49
And then I think there's multiple other instances
00:21:52
throughout the book where we see rap's prowess in terms of, you
00:21:56
know, how much he's evolved. Like he gets the drop on Hurley
00:22:00
when when they first interact at the, you know, when he knocks on
00:22:04
the door and then but then Hurley also gets him.
00:22:06
And then I love how they bring it up multiple or Don brings it
00:22:09
up multiple times. This idea that, you know, Mitch
00:22:12
is, you know, like this athlete. I get like a lacrosse bar on the
00:22:17
field. He's able to think five steps
00:22:20
ahead, analyze, you know, all the people come in.
00:22:22
And so in that moment, yes, he did get the drop on Hurley.
00:22:25
But ultimately Hurley had, you know, the backup and would have
00:22:29
been able to, he plays it through his mind.
00:22:32
I, I wouldn't, I would have, I would have taken him and no
00:22:34
matter what. But what Hurley sees is that our
00:22:40
rap is now internalizing all that.
00:22:42
It will never allow that to happen again.
00:22:44
No. And there's another little kind
00:22:47
of call back related in that the fight with Lebedev the the the
00:22:51
cross eyed or. The cross eyed Russian.
00:22:53
Assassin Russian guy when he's in the elevator and takes him
00:22:56
out. Rap wins the fight when he's
00:22:58
losing by grabbing his balls and it's like, right, He's learning
00:23:02
from Stan, he's becoming Stan. Meanwhile, the whole point of
00:23:07
this book and basically Mitch's life as I'm not Stan.
00:23:11
He even calls that out. Another one of my favorite lines
00:23:14
like this is where Don Bentley just reassures you he is the
00:23:18
dude. He is the one he after that one
00:23:21
of the earlier incidents with Stan raps leaving and Stan's
00:23:24
like what the hell are you doing?
00:23:25
We we got this mission. We got this thing and raps kind
00:23:28
of thing like I got enough wars. I don't need another war and all
00:23:31
that. Stan's dressing him down.
00:23:33
Rap goes to leave to get Greta says quote, there's more to me
00:23:37
than just this job. I'm not you.
00:23:40
And that's when he slams the door like that's an important
00:23:44
part of the American assassin arc.
00:23:46
And all the way up to today's Mitch rap that he is not Stan
00:23:50
Hurley. And think about the last man,
00:23:51
Vince's final book before his passing.
00:23:54
It was so much reflection on rap thinking.
00:23:59
Is that me? Is that my future?
00:24:01
And he's kind of fighting against it.
00:24:02
He won't go, you know, gently into that Dark Knight.
00:24:06
And I really think Don want to emphasize that.
00:24:08
And that was a job well done. I think the again, that's
00:24:14
another thing that I really enjoyed from this book is the
00:24:18
deepening of the relationship we got between Mitch and Stan.
00:24:21
I think that's one of the things that Don just got right Like he
00:24:26
he picked up where we left off in that relationship from kill
00:24:30
shot. You know, you have both a a
00:24:36
Hurley who is, you know, going to be himself, this brash,
00:24:40
ballsy guy. But then, you know, ultimately
00:24:42
he has a little bit of contrition, right?
00:24:44
And he realizes how good rap is, how much maybe he, you know,
00:24:50
fucked him over in previous books and how much he actually
00:24:55
needs to get on this. Like they need to be sort of put
00:25:01
aside their differences and realize that they could do
00:25:04
something special if they work together.
00:25:05
Yeah. You know, he's not going to be a
00:25:07
full pushover, obviously. Like there's, there's times
00:25:09
where he you know, he he he mouths off or or, you know, gets
00:25:13
upset at rap for various things. But you see this progression
00:25:17
throughout the book where you know, like rap single handedly
00:25:23
takes down a a Spesnatz team in where they're in Tunisia.
00:25:29
We're in Geneva, yeah. And when he tells them, when he
00:25:33
tells her that like deadpan, he's just like his, his mouth
00:25:35
goes a gape and he's like, what? And then towards the very end
00:25:39
when they're talking about how they're going to get into
00:25:41
Russia, what they're going to do, and Mitch is like, yeah,
00:25:44
that's great, but I'm just going to walk in a building and cap
00:25:47
it. And he's like, and then then
00:25:50
he's like explains it. And so he's like, oh, wow,
00:25:52
that's, that's actually not a bad idea.
00:25:54
It's a good idea. Yeah.
00:25:55
You see this progression of their relationship and it's
00:25:59
laying the groundwork very well for getting us over the American
00:26:05
Assassin hurdle over obviously the the the frustration and
00:26:08
challenges that took place in Kill Shot and really beginning
00:26:13
to see how I could see how this relationship continues on to be
00:26:17
what we see in the last minute, right.
00:26:20
Completely, yeah. This book is, we've already seen
00:26:23
like the building of the Orion team, the origins of it.
00:26:25
This is like the solidifying of the Orion team.
00:26:28
Cap that off. I don't want to jump ahead.
00:26:31
No, cap that off with Irene turning down the promotion and
00:26:35
basically telling Stansfield, you can't take this away from
00:26:39
me, not at this time. Like she is driven and she even
00:26:42
says the Orion team is clicking. Stan Hurley and Mitch rap are
00:26:47
working together. They're going to be at their
00:26:49
peak. They're going to be at their A
00:26:50
game. The job's not done.
00:26:52
And Irene does not want to be taken out of the job.
00:26:55
And I think that pay off when she she does that and says that
00:26:58
is so much better because Stan and Mitch had been on this arc
00:27:03
and Don had that vision to say this arc is going to require, he
00:27:07
even said stand to eat crow, eat humble pie.
00:27:09
It's going to require Rap to prove he can balance his
00:27:15
personal life. Like Hurley would have dressed
00:27:18
him down, said F this guy, get him off the team if he abandoned
00:27:22
an op to go deal with his girlfriend, right?
00:27:25
With any other operative, we know how Stan Hurley's reacting.
00:27:30
But he knew that had to happen and it made it personal because
00:27:33
it was the Olmeyers, right? Never make it personal was the
00:27:36
lesson of American assassin Stan's learning.
00:27:39
It's going to have to be personal.
00:27:42
You know, the Olmeyers are involved.
00:27:44
He's he loves Greta. Even the boys of Berlin, right?
00:27:48
They, they, they seem to have made it personal.
00:27:50
Each one of them had personal stakes of why they were doing
00:27:52
what they're doing and that made them successful.
00:27:55
And I think Stan just learned to realize that that's how the
00:27:57
Orion team strength. It's not their weakness that
00:28:00
they have personal lives and ambitions.
00:28:03
He's thinking that's going to be their strength because it's like
00:28:06
that Chesterton quote, a man fights not to kill what's in
00:28:09
front of him, but to defend what's behind him.
00:28:12
And I bastardize that. But I think it's Stan and Mitch
00:28:15
coming eye to eye and saying we're fighting for what's behind
00:28:18
us. We're fighting for the life you
00:28:20
and I can never have. Stan even clearly says, I've had
00:28:23
tons of women, I've had tons of wives, I've had tons of
00:28:25
divorces. You betcha I could have kept any
00:28:28
one of those if I wanted to, but I didn't want to because there's
00:28:31
something else more important on the other side, and we've got to
00:28:33
fight to preserve that. And I really think that's the
00:28:37
story and the story hits and nobody gets a story more, I
00:28:42
think, than Irene and what she personally puts up with this.
00:28:46
I got to say, you mentioned having an earlier younger rap
00:28:49
being explored is one of your highlights or wins for the book.
00:28:52
For me, it's Irene. Irene absolutely sings every
00:28:57
scene she's in when she's talking.
00:29:00
To Irene. I wanted more Irene, but the
00:29:03
Irene we got when she becomes chief of station, when she
00:29:06
cleans house in Moscow, when she's let loose on the front
00:29:09
lines to operate, Dude, just let Irene be Irene.
00:29:14
When we let her go hog in Moscow station.
00:29:18
I was loving every minute of that.
00:29:21
By far favorite thing about the book was Irene in Moscow.
00:29:27
Easily, hands down by a mile. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's
00:29:32
very good. And like, you know, it
00:29:34
culminating with that super intense scene where she they're
00:29:38
not, it's not even the real OP. She's just doing a trial run.
00:29:42
And then to finish it with this dramatic car crash at the end,
00:29:47
like I'm like. Moscow rules like Moscow rules.
00:29:50
Obviously, obviously you know that Irene is fine, you know,
00:29:53
because of the nature of the book.
00:29:55
But I was like, no, come on. I want, I wanted to see that OP
00:29:59
get played out, but I think it, you know, ultimately, you know,
00:30:02
bringing in some of the other characters, you know, it's sort
00:30:06
of adjusts Mitch and stands, you know, how they operate going
00:30:11
forward. I think it, it made sense.
00:30:14
I, I really enjoyed the the scenes with with Mitch in little
00:30:20
Bianca, you know, the, the cross eyed person, you know, deciding
00:30:29
at the last minute to instead go in and, you know, he shows some
00:30:32
restraint. I feel like a a younger rap
00:30:35
would have just wouldn't have even like would have heard that
00:30:38
you know, for German and. Scheiser.
00:30:40
And not, yeah, Scheiser not not thought about it.
00:30:43
He just gone into the room. He was intentionally or
00:30:46
intention to go into. Yeah, we're seeing a little bit
00:30:51
of progression with rap here for sure.
00:30:53
Yeah, he, he killed Schmidt and almost that was enough to
00:30:56
satisfy in the moment because his mind, we also know
00:31:00
operationally, his mind is perhaps his biggest strength,
00:31:03
not just his physicality and his prowess.
00:31:06
His mind maybe is even more important.
00:31:08
That's reemphasized when he is playing 3D chess and realizes
00:31:12
Petrov's going to be taken down without the bankers, without the
00:31:15
funds, his guys don't get paid. His Vimple team, he was paying
00:31:19
off the books, turns on him, gives him up.
00:31:22
I already got this guy high up in the FSK or whatever it is at
00:31:25
the time. Who's going to Yeah right now,
00:31:29
who's going to angle to take over?
00:31:31
And he now has leverage to take down Petrov and get these guys.
00:31:35
So Rap almost sees it as a win win.
00:31:37
I got Schmidt. I cut off the funding.
00:31:38
The head of the snake will die naturally, which he does with a
00:31:42
pose It a long fall down a short staircase.
00:31:46
Great line, short. Staircase.
00:31:48
Yeah, Don. You're killing me.
00:31:50
When Petrov dies a long fall down a couple of steps.
00:31:54
It's almost like Brad Thor and his Russian gravity syndrome.
00:31:58
But yeah, Petrov gets taken out and rap thought 10 steps ahead,
00:32:02
knew that was going to happen. It was his downfall.
00:32:04
And it was almost more satisfying to get Schmidt
00:32:07
because of Greta's phone call while wild cliffhanger when he's
00:32:11
full Hezbollah gear, he's walking into Lubyanka, He's
00:32:15
already getting all these looks and he has to answer the phone
00:32:17
knowing Greta is the only one who could be calling.
00:32:20
And she says trace the money. It was about greed.
00:32:22
It was Petrov wanting Olmeyer's money, wanting his connections
00:32:27
and Olmeyer didn't give it all up.
00:32:28
He didn't sell the farm. And I think that even extra
00:32:31
motivated rap to want Schmidt and realize Petrov is a long
00:32:37
game. But he had to take care.
00:32:38
He had to cut off the funding in in the short game.
00:32:40
Another really interesting take in Don's writing on a couple of
00:32:44
levels that I didn't see the first read through.
00:32:47
I should say first listen through, but we folks are not
00:32:49
going to discuss much or spend time on the audio book.
00:32:51
So my second read through the book is way better, way better
00:32:56
on paper. Everybody, we're huge Audible
00:32:59
fans, audio book fans. This book must be read for a lot
00:33:04
of reasons, one being a terrible audio book narration.
00:33:07
But the reason has to be read is because there's so many things
00:33:10
to devour when Hurley punches the dude in the bar.
00:33:14
Hurley has a spy is really fun too. 2 bar scenes watering
00:33:17
drains. I like seeing Hurley in action.
00:33:19
Takes the bottle, crushes the shot glass.
00:33:21
He's playing the boys in Berlin. He's running a spy ring in the
00:33:25
Cold War and we get to see him, you know, do what he does, Not
00:33:31
just kicking ass. We've seen that.
00:33:32
Hurley not just being all rough and tumble, but doing it when
00:33:35
the stakes are super high. He's in Moscow meeting with a
00:33:37
higher up at the FSK or in Vienna, wherever they are.
00:33:41
I absolutely love that stuff. But he says we're going to get
00:33:46
you out of here, I have to arrest you, punches him.
00:33:50
And then the guy says something like when you're at the airport,
00:33:53
use the third phone from the right.
00:33:55
So he's like giving Hurley instructions on how to make his
00:33:58
phone call and get word out about their plan that, you know,
00:34:01
RAP is going to get out, We're going to take down Petrov, that
00:34:03
all this is going to go to plan. I have a guy on the inside RAP.
00:34:06
I think the only way Alicia knows to pick up RAP 'cause
00:34:10
Rap's like shit, Hurley was my out and now he's persona non
00:34:13
grata. He's been booted out of the
00:34:15
country. Rap doesn't even know how he's
00:34:17
going to get out. Alicia pulls up from the embassy
00:34:21
the same way Hurley did it at the end of Kill Shot, but I
00:34:24
think that's only because Hurley made the call to Irene or
00:34:27
Stansfield. Irene was hospitalized, so it
00:34:29
must have been Stansfield, and Hurley was able to get word out
00:34:32
about the plan. And I think that's what saves
00:34:34
Rap's bacon. So I think Hurley again saves
00:34:37
Rap and we don't even see it. It's just you.
00:34:39
You kind of have to make that inference that Hurley made
00:34:42
contact home and Stansfield arranged it.
00:34:44
And Stansfield knew who's Irene's top person at the
00:34:46
embassy. She must reported.
00:34:48
There's a trustworthy lady, Alicia.
00:34:50
She deserves a shot and she saves the day.
00:34:53
That is next level storytelling that you got to read it twice,
00:34:56
three times to put the pieces together.
00:35:00
Speaking of the boys of Berlin, I like getting that little
00:35:03
flashback of seeing Hurley, you know, interact.
00:35:08
He's like, did I ever tell you that story?
00:35:09
And then I think Mitch goes, do I have a chance?
00:35:11
And then it immediately cuts in, like, you know, it just cuts the
00:35:15
story. That was pretty funny.
00:35:17
And that was a plant from an earlier Vince book with the
00:35:19
bodies floating, you know, with the bodies floating across
00:35:22
Eastern Europe. Yeah, exactly.
00:35:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was AII like that flashback
00:35:27
a lot. And then, you know, we got
00:35:28
another flashback. We didn't even talk about the
00:35:30
opening chapter of the scene of seeing our boy Stansfield in
00:35:37
action, ultimately finding out that the guy he shoots is
00:35:43
Petrov's brother, That that's what like the whole impetus for
00:35:46
this entire book is right like this. 50 years revenge intense.
00:35:52
Yeah, and some OSS stuff, you know, we've heard about Thomas
00:35:56
Stansfield. Right, it's always mentioned but
00:35:58
like to be able to see it and read it on the page was nice.
00:36:01
Yes, being recruited for his language skills out of college,
00:36:04
hey, go take, you know, French and German that allows him to go
00:36:08
behind enemy lines memorizing like all these notebooks and
00:36:12
journals and all this information sabotaging behind
00:36:16
the scenes, stopping their uranium oxide.
00:36:18
And it's worth seeing it happen. And he takes, he takes his shot.
00:36:23
And the way the book progressed, I was wondering where that would
00:36:26
come from. I almost in my mind had an idea
00:36:30
that this book would be a little bit more of some World War 2,
00:36:33
early Stansfield stuff. And then it didn't go.
00:36:36
Back, I wouldn't have minded it. I wouldn't have minded it.
00:36:38
Yeah, I think we did get the Stan Hurley flashback, more Cold
00:36:41
War Berlin era, so that was OK. But I for some reason had a
00:36:46
preconceived notion this book would do more.
00:36:48
Early days OSS, Stansfield recruitment.
00:36:52
We kind of touched on it, which was nice, but I could have used
00:36:55
a little more. I could have dug in.
00:36:58
At least it came back around with Petrov's brother and the
00:37:01
head in the box, right, of why Petrov is almost coming out of
00:37:05
retirement or resurrecting these old skeletons.
00:37:07
And it's because it is personal with Stansfield.
00:37:09
So it was a nice connection in the end, I just think.
00:37:12
I could have dug in. It's a huge connection with
00:37:14
between him. Olmeyer, Stan.
00:37:18
Stansfield, The Volkov. A Volkov.
00:37:24
Immediately on the other side, you had Petrov, this American
00:37:28
trader. The the they had a banker.
00:37:31
They had, you know, they, they had equivalent like spy spy
00:37:35
rings like that. That was I would have loved to
00:37:37
see in like a movie of seeing the these two opposing rings.
00:37:41
Each of them have, you know, the mastermind.
00:37:44
Each of them have the brute force, each of them have the
00:37:47
defector, you know, and each of them have a banker like it's it
00:37:50
was. That was pretty cool.
00:37:52
Yeah, I, I thought that was a really great setup.
00:37:54
And even if we didn't get to see that in action in the day, it
00:37:57
colored so much of what was happening in the present in in
00:38:00
the 90s. So it's kind of cool that all
00:38:03
those earlier decades of Cold War history, post World War 2
00:38:07
into Cold War history was impacting a post Soviet world,
00:38:13
right? Like these beefs didn't die with
00:38:16
with the dissolution of the Soviet Union, right?
00:38:19
All the KGB spies, their context, their antics didn't
00:38:24
just disappear and say, oh, now we're democracy, we're pro
00:38:26
Western country and all of a sudden everything's better or
00:38:28
whatever. No, it was not the case at all
00:38:30
in early Russian Federation days.
00:38:32
So yeah, I loved how the history colored the present.
00:38:35
I could have lived in history just a little longer.
00:38:37
Sure, of course. Now, that might have come at the
00:38:42
expense of a couple other storylines I really like,
00:38:44
though, because we didn't even talk free.
00:38:46
Chris. Chris.
00:38:48
Henrik. We got to get into that and.
00:38:51
Barry. Was, you know, these we've seen
00:38:57
it in a lot of different books, whether it's Brad, Jack, maybe
00:39:00
not so much Jack, but mainly Brad, Vince, Kyle, you know,
00:39:05
having these tertiary stories that are related to the plot but
00:39:11
yet either barely touched or sometimes don't ever touch.
00:39:19
I'm thinking of like one of the Brad novels where you have that
00:39:21
whole. Police, Police, police.
00:39:25
Procedural thing and the only one that connects him is like
00:39:28
she watches the president, you know, say something on TV at the
00:39:31
end and you know, like that's the connection, right?
00:39:34
But to have this one is cool as hell to have one of our patrons
00:39:39
have her name, you know, be used as a character to put her as
00:39:44
this dangle. See.
00:39:46
Hi. Did you think I thought she was
00:39:48
a spy? I mean, I I know they wrote it
00:39:50
like that. She's not.
00:39:52
Yeah. But I in my mind, it was a it
00:39:55
was a fake. It was a double.
00:39:57
I yeah, it could have been, but I mean, I'm just thinking back
00:39:59
to the Americans. This show had so many American
00:40:02
vibes like the jack-in-the-box. In the car.
00:40:04
Where Irene was supposed to get out and then also these dead
00:40:07
drops and everything. So I, I did like the discussion
00:40:10
of spouses and the families yes, they should be immune, right?
00:40:16
Moscow rules is that anything goes right?
00:40:18
You hit us, we hit you back, you take ours, we take yours.
00:40:21
So I, I kind of like how showing the game is changing like
00:40:24
nothing's off limits. And then at the same time there
00:40:28
was an acknowledgement of we were using spouses and families
00:40:32
in a, in a very limited way to, to be at dead, right, dead drop
00:40:37
sites or even if the family was covered, not actively, but like,
00:40:40
oh, it's a Family Day in the park.
00:40:42
We're going on a picnic. OK, Stakes are lower.
00:40:44
Daddy's not working yet. Daddy sneaks off into the bushes
00:40:47
for a few minutes or whatever. So it's like the family picnic
00:40:50
was the distraction. And I read a couple other books.
00:40:54
There's a, there's a house not far from Tenleytown, Northwest
00:40:58
DC, and I'm always up in that area.
00:41:01
There were a couple houses I've always passed on my commute,
00:41:04
normal suburban houses. And I've been reading like Cold
00:41:07
War spy stories of like these were parties and bashes.
00:41:10
If you think of what's the movie Tinker, Tailor Soldier Spy, the
00:41:15
spouses are heavily involved in the social gatherings, the
00:41:18
parties, the drinking secrets are told at those parties.
00:41:22
Alliances are made, friendships are made.
00:41:24
They're often international parties, so I don't think the
00:41:28
spouses can be, especially in that Cold War era, 100% immune,
00:41:32
100% out of the picture. The question becomes, are you
00:41:37
willing to touch them, right? Are they off limits?
00:41:39
And Moscow is taking the first step to say they're not off
00:41:42
limits by taking Chris and that and then the chains are off,
00:41:45
right It we're off to the races. And thankfully, we've got Stan's
00:41:49
Field and Kennedy, who hatch a plot to then take down the wife
00:41:53
of one of the the ministers at the Smithsonian Museum at the
00:41:56
Air and Space Museum. That was a cool, a cool little
00:41:58
wrinkle there, yeah. It was a really cool wrinkle
00:42:01
because, I mean, it's not Moscow rules, it's DC rules now, bitch.
00:42:05
Like, to me, that was Stansfield absolutely dropping the hammer,
00:42:09
saying enough's enough. We're not rolling over for
00:42:12
anybody. And that is why Chris is freed
00:42:17
in the end. And that's the only pressure
00:42:18
because they weren't going to free her.
00:42:19
They were going to play hardball on that tarmac.
00:42:22
She knows when her shoulder gets squeezed and she's yanked back.
00:42:25
Crap. This might have been a set up.
00:42:26
I might have been a pawn. They're not going to give me,
00:42:28
you know, they're going to find a reason.
00:42:29
They're going to be like, oh, you took this diplomat lady from
00:42:32
Washington, DC. We're not giving Chris back now.
00:42:35
So it could have just escalated. But guess who was there
00:42:38
alongside Fred Burton as one of the DSS agents?
00:42:41
Fred Burton. Oh yeah, Fred Burton was there,
00:42:44
but Mitch motherfucking Rap steps up, grabs Chris and says
00:42:46
no motherfuckers, we're taking her.
00:42:49
Chris Hendrick, one of our friends, she got touched by
00:42:53
Mitch Rap on the shoulder and saved on the tarmac during
00:42:56
essentially A prisoner exchange in Moscow.
00:42:59
That's that's unreal. That is just next level stuff
00:43:02
out of Dom. Yeah, so I had known pretty
00:43:06
early on, I guess Chris had told us that she was going to be a
00:43:09
character. And then, you know, our group
00:43:13
does a pretty decent job of keeping the group chat spoiler
00:43:16
free at times. But yeah, every now and then,
00:43:18
like, and I of course, was one of the last persons to to read
00:43:22
denied access. And so, but I don't, I don't
00:43:25
spoilers don't don't really bother me.
00:43:27
But when they had said it like, Oh, Mitch had like Mitch, you
00:43:31
know, in the end saves someone said that Mitch saves Chris, and
00:43:36
that was the only context I got and I was like, all right, so
00:43:38
I'm waiting for Mitch to save Chris.
00:43:40
And like we we got it with the you know, him just putting her,
00:43:42
you know, in in. But in my mind, as soon as we go
00:43:46
into Lubianca as she's like she's she's down below.
00:43:49
That's what I thought. And then he he remember the guy
00:43:51
shows into those things and I'm like, wait, is he going to like
00:43:55
he's. Going to break her out.
00:43:56
Walk by, like walk by her cave, you know, dude, and break her
00:43:59
out. But it was still cool the way we
00:44:02
had it. But it was still.
00:44:03
Kind, I'm thinking all these other things.
00:44:05
I psyched myself up out the same way and in my notes I wrote just
00:44:09
in case nobody believed me. It's in my notes.
00:44:11
You get time stamped. See it between other things.
00:44:13
Prediction rap breaks Chris out of Lou Bianca.
00:44:16
You ready for this prediction? She sacrifices herself so he can
00:44:20
live and escape. Then Greta must go off grid and
00:44:23
change to a pseudonym. And she changes her pseudonym to
00:44:26
Chris Hendrick because of the sacrifice Chris made while rap
00:44:31
was breaking her out of Lubianca.
00:44:33
Oh man, that's some fan fiction. Right there, that's some fan
00:44:35
fiction right there. I wrote that prediction down
00:44:37
just because it popped in my mind.
00:44:39
I was like, if that happens, I'm going to lose my shit.
00:44:43
But that's just fan fiction. Me being a complete loser so.
00:44:48
It's funny. That's funny.
00:44:50
I thought, I didn't think like fully fully to that extent, but
00:44:53
I, I went definitely I was, I was gearing up for him to, to
00:44:57
take her out. But yeah, either way, we we got
00:44:59
a cool interaction between between Chris and Mitch and.
00:45:02
The and the Lubianca scene was still quite satisfying.
00:45:06
Yeah, the fight in the elevator was great, Captain America
00:45:09
style, you know, Yeah, kicks butt in the elevator and the
00:45:12
torture chamber. He kicks the the dead body into
00:45:15
like sick. What else do we miss talking?
00:45:20
Oh, big action suspense scene that I absolutely love.
00:45:24
Since I mentioned Fred Burton, did you love that limo scene or
00:45:27
the the motorcade scene when Petrov encounters Kennedy?
00:45:31
Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that moment.
00:45:36
Yeah, when we, I guess she's first meeting the DSS agents,
00:45:40
immediately gets off the plane, you know, at the do some
00:45:43
invasive measures and yeah, we just get this, you know, that's
00:45:48
what I say in this book in the middle, like as soon as we get
00:45:51
past like a couple of like the first maybe 10 or so chapters,
00:45:55
as soon as we kick off the spy game stuff.
00:45:57
It hits. It it it really sinks.
00:46:00
Really. Yeah, yeah, I I was a little
00:46:02
nervous in the beginning. One the Barcelona scene we
00:46:04
talked about, Another one we didn't even.
00:46:06
Talk about the. Dog of pills, Latvia.
00:46:10
Yeah. The bar scene.
00:46:12
I don't know, maybe if if I read it, it, it it is is Stephen
00:46:16
Webber the person that is clouding that scene for me
00:46:19
because of how one confusing like listening to that scene was
00:46:24
a little bit confusing and I realize it's like kind of meant
00:46:27
to be because of, you know, they're there, they're running
00:46:29
intelligence. There's a bomb, multiple bombs,
00:46:33
but the Brooklyn accent that he's putting on like what
00:46:35
whatever that was was just and you're a New Yorker.
00:46:39
So like, was it Bronx, Brooklyn, I don't know, whatever.
00:46:44
I think I think was the Bronx and that was supposed to be
00:46:46
David McCloskey was which again almost took me out of the story
00:46:51
of like I know him. His books are really good.
00:46:54
What's he doing as some Bronx guy in a bar in Latvia?
00:46:58
Some linguist who is diffusing bombs or doesn't know how to
00:47:00
diffuse bombs? Half assed diffusing bombs and
00:47:02
then? I was also confused because we
00:47:05
had we had started with going back to the Cold War or no to
00:47:12
World War Two or the end of World War 2 or Middle World War
00:47:15
2 and then we were jumping ahead and then we jump back to that.
00:47:17
I'm like, wait, are we back in like World War 2 or we current
00:47:24
times? You know I don't.
00:47:26
Know yeah and and. Ultimately it was all set up to,
00:47:30
you know, sort of kick off this, you know, ultimately what rap
00:47:35
has to rap is hardly have to stop this, you know war from.
00:47:37
Having Yeah. But I I'm going to blame Steven
00:47:42
Weberon. Yeah, I don't know.
00:47:45
I will say the writing and dialogue, forget the accent,
00:47:49
right? It was hard to hear even on the
00:47:51
page because I did read that 1-2 or three times and I, I almost
00:47:54
couldn't get past it. I had a big block from that
00:47:57
scene in the Barcelona scene. I was struggling to like, keep
00:48:00
on going. I was like, at least we had
00:48:02
Stan's field, early days, World War 2.
00:48:04
At least I know Hurley's going to come in at some point.
00:48:06
He's got to be here soon. That got me back into it.
00:48:09
But when I was having a struggle through the Latvia stuff in the
00:48:11
bar, I was not bought in, man. That's a Ding of one or two
00:48:15
points on my buy in score since man, we got to get to our score.
00:48:18
Yeah, we got to, we got to get to the score yard.
00:48:20
So. So.
00:48:21
Not a lot of things, but defusing the.
00:48:22
Bomb just went too long talking about the bomb.
00:48:25
These guys making jokes back and forth.
00:48:27
One saying, is he saying the Hail Mary or something over and
00:48:30
over or he's quoting, no, she's quoting Shakespeare.
00:48:33
She's quoting Shakespeare over and over.
00:48:35
I'm like, I just don't know if this is the time and place.
00:48:37
Where's Rap? Where's Olmeyer?
00:48:38
Where's Hurley? Where's Greta?
00:48:40
It was we just hadn't had enough of.
00:48:43
Our favourites, yeah, you know, yet I guess I feel like, and I
00:48:47
was OK with the stakes being. Olmeyer the stakes being the
00:48:50
boys in Berlin, I don't know if I needed another international
00:48:54
backdrop of Russia's going to invade this country, former
00:48:57
Soviet Republic and take it back under the presence of a false
00:49:01
flag operation and then they have the right to protect ethnic
00:49:04
Russians. It's like, OK, this sounds just
00:49:05
like Ukraine. Like it sounds like Ukraine.
00:49:08
We don't need to go back and say that was happening in the 90s
00:49:10
because we all know it was like, yes, sure, great.
00:49:14
OK, I don't know if I needed that didn't raise the stakes
00:49:17
enough like the stakes of what's going to happen with Greta,
00:49:19
what's going to happen with the old Myers.
00:49:20
What happens with everyone else was enough the settling the
00:49:25
score between. Petrov and and stance was
00:49:30
enough. Was.
00:49:31
Bought was buying enough. For.
00:49:32
Me, yeah, and. And like I.
00:49:36
Guess that's how you get. That's how you get Kennedy to.
00:49:38
To Russia, it's true. It's true.
00:49:41
It's how. You get a lot of the diplomacy
00:49:43
stuff, like the diplomatic stuff of why Chris is.
00:49:47
Involved. So it all does link.
00:49:49
I'm not saying it doesn't check out how it was written.
00:49:52
A little lengthy, not at the right time, the beginning of the
00:49:55
book. It wasn't grabbing me.
00:49:56
A little confusing about the bombs in the bar.
00:49:58
It's in a cabinet and these guys go in the bathroom and there's
00:50:01
ethnic Russians talking about something, something, and it's a
00:50:03
false flag. OK, great.
00:50:06
But. I'm going to.
00:50:07
I'm going to. Change my tune here and go back
00:50:09
to that Kennedy scene, because when Petrov says Orionberg, that
00:50:14
was such a connection to the Stansfield scene in the
00:50:17
beginning, I was like, I think that's where that took place.
00:50:19
I I think that was the the opening scene.
00:50:23
So that raised the stakes. And also when Kennedy and Fred
00:50:26
Burton and her diplomatic security team are deciding how
00:50:29
to run, how to evade, how to get out of here, and she basically
00:50:33
drops that these colors don't run line.
00:50:35
She plays it cool. She even is playing a spy master
00:50:39
game. Like she is the spy master in
00:50:41
this book and and Stan's field. It's fun to watch his
00:50:44
goddaughter, his family member. He treats her like family.
00:50:48
Watch her become that spy master.
00:50:51
It's amazing because she. Locks Petrov out.
00:50:54
Petrov's like, let me in. And she doesn't slide over.
00:50:57
She puts the ball in his court by rolling up her window to say
00:51:00
you have to look foolish and walk around the car, sit next to
00:51:02
me reading the newspaper. Exactly.
00:51:05
She's reading. The newspaper playing it cool as
00:51:06
a. Cucumber in the highest of
00:51:09
tension scenes was another reason Kennedy was just singing.
00:51:13
So the stakes of the spies spies game, the Moscow rules context.
00:51:17
We could have moved to Chapter 1, Chapter 2 and maybe let the
00:51:21
Latvia stuff play out a little more in the on the down low.
00:51:24
We could have led with that. So tiny nitpick, tiny Ding
00:51:29
there, but I'm not going to harp on it too much.
00:51:34
All right, so let's. Let's get into the scorecard.
00:51:35
Let's get into the. Scorecard action suspense.
00:51:38
What do you give? This buck.
00:51:44
Lou Biancocina was great. The tension of Chris and the.
00:51:48
Diplomats kind of raised. Suspense for me quite a bit.
00:51:51
And the Kennedy in the limousine encountering Petrov was almost
00:51:54
the height of suspense. And we can't forget we kind of
00:51:56
glossed over the Tunisia scene. Rap scouting it out Tunisia.
00:52:01
Scene was awesome, we can't forget.
00:52:03
That because it was so cool. And I was like, is this a Side
00:52:05
Story? But it brought in Volkov, right?
00:52:07
It brought in an old boy from Berlin, who then gave the Intel,
00:52:10
gave the rundown on Lubianca, gave all these contacts.
00:52:13
New Petrov's mind you could one. Could see it as a sideshow just.
00:52:18
For a little dramatic action, we need rap to do something.
00:52:22
But it, no, it was integrated. It, it, it, it's bonus points
00:52:24
for that scene. There's even more bonus points
00:52:27
given for. I guess when he leaves the
00:52:30
apartment to go get Greta, like he's in like a a rough and
00:52:35
tumble neighborhood and these three guys, Yep, like jump him
00:52:39
and he just, it's like a it's super quick, like 2-2
00:52:42
paragraphs, like, but just, you know, being there with Rabbit,
00:52:46
seeing how skilled he is, which is freaking awesome.
00:52:50
Yeah, a bit of a sideshow for me, but sure.
00:52:53
Yeah, but like, you know. Necessary much?
00:52:56
I mean, maybe I. Don't know it's a primary area,
00:53:00
the 90s. Yeah, I understand it.
00:53:04
Is you. Know he's even doing the
00:53:05
stakeout beforehand. Where?
00:53:07
He's using the phones and the signals to kind of like Entrap
00:53:10
to see if the police are going to help them or this team that's
00:53:12
going to help them. Turns out it's the Vimples.
00:53:14
So it looks like a mercenary team, but they have a lot of
00:53:17
resources. They got a jet, you know, Rap
00:53:20
and Hurley. The whole time we're trying to
00:53:21
figure out who the hell is funding this whole thing.
00:53:24
And we turn. We later find out that it's
00:53:26
Schmidt, and Schmidt is the ultimate, you know, big bad we
00:53:28
take down, which is cool. Yeah.
00:53:31
I think that scene helps out with action suspense.
00:53:33
So is it an 8 between A7 and an 8?
00:53:38
I think I give it the benefit of the doubt.
00:53:40
Yeah, I'm going 7. I'm going to give an 8.
00:53:43
OK. OK.
00:53:44
That's fair, though. Don't think you can go much
00:53:48
higher. I don't think it's fair to go
00:53:49
much. Lower Yeah plot.
00:53:56
If you give me just the spy stuff, you give me just Irene
00:53:59
and Stan and you give me Hurley and Raps relationship and their
00:54:04
arc boys of Berlin. Petra V.
00:54:08
Stansfield, I think I can go A9 or A10 if it's just that.
00:54:13
Yeah, the Latvia opening, even even Olmeyer's right, Right.
00:54:17
The conversation with rap and Olmeyer early on, the love story
00:54:21
with Greta was hitting, so could go 9 or 10 on that stuff, but
00:54:24
little pieces took me out of it. We didn't even talk Rutledge.
00:54:28
He's a senator who's trying to take.
00:54:30
Down the CIA. We got a classic Vince Flynn.
00:54:33
You know, congressional that was that was cool to say yes and and
00:54:37
to have Stansfield in the hot. Seat it.
00:54:39
It felt weird when Vince would put, you know, Mitch in these
00:54:42
committees or whatever and he just mouthed off at somebody
00:54:44
like it was cool. It was rah rah root for it.
00:54:46
But the whole time when I what it was better when Irene did it
00:54:49
though it was always. Better when Irene did it, and
00:54:52
it's kind of cool to. See Stansfield have his moment
00:54:54
there. So good stuff didn't have much
00:54:58
consequence later on. I guess the backdrop is, is the
00:55:00
CIA even necessary? It was good to hear Don explain
00:55:03
some of this. I think that helps me understand
00:55:05
the context. His explanation of like this was
00:55:07
a time where the government was questioning.
00:55:11
Is the CIA necessary? And politicians were scoring
00:55:13
cheap political points by trying to, you know, sideline it all.
00:55:17
That wins me some points of laffiest stuff.
00:55:18
Wasn't doing it. Barcelona didn't get me hooked
00:55:23
7. On plot, yeah.
00:55:25
I'm. I'm going to go 7 as well and.
00:55:28
The other thing that is a kind of a big plot hole for me is the
00:55:34
ultimate leak we had was this this guy who he was like.
00:55:42
Just talked to he. Wasn't even in the CIA.
00:55:45
Kind of like a lobbyist. Yeah, talk to.
00:55:49
People. I mean, I guess that's how it
00:55:51
works. I don't know it just I thought
00:55:54
that like a spy that is giving up, you know, 'cause we're like.
00:55:59
Moscow station is in. Ruins like their OP is going
00:56:03
wrong, like all their they're they're afraid of their own
00:56:07
shadow. Yeah.
00:56:08
So to me I felt like the mole like had to be in.
00:56:13
The building. You know, not, not someone
00:56:17
either in Moscow in the 7th floor.
00:56:20
You know, I think it's still possible though.
00:56:22
I I think it's both end. I think both.
00:56:24
I think both end I I think Zeke is doing.
00:56:26
His digging, but I. Think it's one scene where he
00:56:29
sneaks away, makes a phone call to somebody.
00:56:32
I think he has the mole and I think he's afraid Irene is
00:56:35
rooting the mole out. Maybe it's that guy she fires
00:56:39
right and and everyone's and the ambassador right, chews her out
00:56:42
and right, you know, why'd you fire this guy?
00:56:44
So I feel like that mole story was in the background, but the
00:56:48
Zeke Zeke and if he encountered the mole more often was a little
00:56:52
more hands on with the mole and passing it to his Russian
00:56:54
handler could have been clarified a bit.
00:56:57
So I'm with you 7. All right, 7 All right, what
00:57:02
about buying? I'm going to let you go.
00:57:04
I want to hear. Your buying so to what?
00:57:09
The point of this? Story is right, like, like we
00:57:12
said, establishing the continuation.
00:57:16
Of kill shot. Seeing the growth of the Orion.
00:57:19
Team seeing the. The transition of Hurley and
00:57:24
Rapp's relationship, seeing Stanfield kick butt, Irene kick
00:57:29
butt. I'm bought in hook, line and
00:57:32
sinker to all of that. And that, that that to me is
00:57:36
like the core of the story. So while I'm digging plot, you
00:57:40
know I'm, I'm not going to bring in.
00:57:44
Yeah, I was a little bit. Like hung up with like some of
00:57:46
the beginning stuff, so. I can't go up pure 5 for buy in,
00:57:49
but I I think it's like a four 4 1/2.
00:57:53
Yeah, I'm glad. You were generous.
00:57:56
With it, I, I am, because you're right, what hits hits the spy
00:58:01
stuff I was. Bought in like I'm bought in.
00:58:03
Watching the Americans but now I'm getting to do it with Mitch
00:58:05
Rap, Irene and Stansfield Gnarly.
00:58:07
So I love that I I don't think I can cross that 4 threshold.
00:58:13
It probably could be a 3 1/2 3. To 3 1/2 I think I have to go 3.
00:58:20
Though because of the beginning, because of some loose ends with
00:58:23
Greta, I wasn't fully fully satisfied on why she is
00:58:27
completely thrown out for 30 years of Mitch's life.
00:58:30
I think there's more creative ways to explain it or or there's
00:58:33
more psychological work rap has to do and unpack to get there.
00:58:39
And maybe it's the next book. So the next book could bring us
00:58:41
up if it indeed is a post denied access book.
00:58:43
Wow. There's an opportunity for these
00:58:45
scores to radically change if that's the case.
00:58:48
But I think I have to go 3 just because of all those things put
00:58:52
together. Yeah, Good guys.
00:58:57
Well, good guys. Bad guys, which one do you want
00:58:58
to start with? How would you break down the
00:59:00
characters? Let's start with the.
00:59:05
The bad guys, so the. Bad guys, I think they're good.
00:59:11
Yeah, not great. They don't rise.
00:59:15
To the level. Of Hank Clark Rafika Hank Clark.
00:59:19
Rafik Aziz. Like, you know, Petrov could,
00:59:22
but. Petrov.
00:59:24
Yeah, I mean. He's still out there, right?
00:59:26
Well. He was out there for a while.
00:59:28
We don't know. How long until he was pushed
00:59:30
down the stairs or, oh, excuse me, he tripped, but he was out
00:59:34
there. Yeah, so.
00:59:37
You know, while I I liked I liked his character, I thought,
00:59:40
you know, he was done very well. The, you know, cross eyed
00:59:44
assassin, very interesting. The other pimple teams
00:59:48
interesting to me, like this book, like doesn't it didn't
00:59:53
need that big heavy because they everything was being done in the
00:59:59
shadows, right? You know, like it was sort of
01:00:01
just this threat of what could happen, like what Petrov could
01:00:05
do. So but that's not the I don't
01:00:13
immediately think that's not the villains are not the first thing
01:00:16
I immediately think of in this book.
01:00:17
Right? No, same.
01:00:18
And they don't need to be. They don't.
01:00:20
Need to be. They don't need to be.
01:00:21
So I don't know, 3 1/2, yeah, 3.54, I would say.
01:00:28
Four or four or five if we're just going.
01:00:29
Petrov but have OK somewhat worthy assassin.
01:00:35
For Mitch or adversary? For Mitch to be up against he is
01:00:38
the one who gets the old Myers. That's pretty creepy as it was a
01:00:41
shock so I liked it. It was revealed as a shock but
01:00:43
what could have helped villains As if we saw the old Myers being
01:00:47
tortured. But I think it also worked.
01:00:49
Just have Greta get the phone call saying run like that.
01:00:52
That cinematically worked, but at the same time I almost wanted
01:00:56
a scene of remember, like Count Hagenmiller in the start of he
01:01:01
was in the woods of he had that mansion they lighted on fire in
01:01:06
the second the book after transfer of power.
01:01:09
Third option. Oh, the third option.
01:01:11
I almost could have seen like a scene.
01:01:13
Like that in. The mansion with this assassin
01:01:15
sneaking in, torturing them, what he does to the wife, The
01:01:19
unspeakable stuff. Traitor.
01:01:21
Like imagine an opening scene of the book or cutscene where it's
01:01:26
just some creepy assassin we don't know anything about and
01:01:28
he's etching traitor into Olmeyer's chest or whatever the
01:01:33
German word for traitor, and he's torturing the wife in front
01:01:36
of them. We don't know who he is, we
01:01:38
don't know his motivations. Then all that's unpacked as we
01:01:41
learn about Petrov and I guess we.
01:01:45
While we were with the bad guys. For like.
01:01:51
I guess we were, we're with the assassin when he tries to dress
01:01:54
up as Mitch and, you know, pretend to be him and go half
01:01:57
cocked off in London. Besides that, we're.
01:02:01
We. Don't get any other scenes where
01:02:02
we're like in their head, whereas like other books we've
01:02:05
gotten, it's not a lot, but we do cut over more to the villains
01:02:10
and like what they're doing. The only other time we really
01:02:13
see them is when they're interacting with our our main
01:02:15
characters. So it's a choice.
01:02:18
That's a fairpoint. It is a.
01:02:19
It is a choice. And I wonder if that's maybe
01:02:21
part of what makes the villains less relatable.
01:02:26
So hit me with that three, hit me with that three, and we'll
01:02:33
make up for. It with A5.
01:02:36
Good guys are A5, good guys are A5 you.
01:02:38
Know put me down, I think the rest I.
01:02:40
Think the rest of these. The scores are going to be
01:02:43
pretty high. Pretty high from here on out.
01:02:45
I wasn't. That I wasn't that generous with
01:02:47
my earlier scores, so if you're willing to grant it, put me
01:02:51
down. A6 for the good guys.
01:02:53
Oh OK, first time in. History.
01:02:57
Bonus extra credit. Bonus point for the good guys.
01:03:01
You want one? I'll give you 1 as well.
01:03:03
I mean just like. You know everything.
01:03:06
We've said like. Hurley, Stanfield, Irene, Mitch.
01:03:12
And then, you know, throw in the, you know, those, those are
01:03:14
the heavy hitters. Then you throw in like Chris
01:03:16
Hendricks. You throw in the what's her
01:03:19
name? Amelia.
01:03:21
Alicia. You know the Russian Fred
01:03:24
Burton, the Russian. Volga.
01:03:26
The the there's Volga and then there's the other guy, the other
01:03:29
contact. In the bar, yeah.
01:03:31
And in Ludoga. Everyone we you know besides.
01:03:36
Like the the two ancillaire characters we get with the
01:03:39
Brooklyn accent, like every other one wasn't important in
01:03:45
was done well. So hit me with that six spot.
01:03:48
Hit me with that six spot. Brother, for both of us, give it
01:03:50
to you. Give it to you.
01:03:51
All right, I'll give it to me too.
01:03:54
All right, setting. What do you think of the
01:03:56
setting? You know, because we were just
01:03:58
talking. About that Tunisia scene.
01:04:00
I felt really like Tunisia. I was in a little town.
01:04:03
See 1 little gripe was. We got so much about rap being
01:04:06
nauseous on the seaplane and on the boat.
01:04:09
That must have pulled that from Vince.
01:04:10
I don't. Remember personally too.
01:04:11
Much about it being brought up maybe at one point, but he
01:04:14
seemed to go very heavy into Mitch, had all this nausea and
01:04:16
didn't want to be on the plane or on the boat and then the
01:04:19
seaplane. Maybe that's something to say
01:04:21
about his evolution where he gets really comfortable on those
01:04:24
like 130 transports where they like lull him to sleep, like
01:04:27
that's his safe place. So maybe it's some sort of
01:04:30
transformation teeing up. But that was a little out of
01:04:32
place. When we land in Gazert, I think
01:04:34
the town was, I was loving it. He's on this mountain, he's
01:04:37
doing Overwatch, He's talking to us like American tourist lady or
01:04:40
something, this New Jersey lady, whatever.
01:04:43
So cool. And then when he's going through
01:04:44
the streets picking these guys off and Mark said something cool
01:04:48
about how this scene was written.
01:04:50
It's cool that it has this little cafe where he meets
01:04:52
Volkov and all this. Then he goes off on this
01:04:54
adventure, but as he's killing dudes and wiping out this team,
01:04:59
we're hearing it through the Assassin's earpiece, the lead
01:05:02
team leaders earpiece. And he's like, report back five,
01:05:06
you know, report back four. And nobody's reporting back.
01:05:09
And we just secretly know Mitch is picking him off.
01:05:12
Mitch is picking him up. Yeah.
01:05:13
Yeah, that was, it's like. Getting the action vicariously
01:05:17
off scene, but through like a character that's going to amount
01:05:20
to me to his demise. Like it was, it was both
01:05:22
chilling and, you know, super cool.
01:05:25
That was well written. That reminded me of some like
01:05:27
Matt. Drake type stuff.
01:05:28
I don't know why that was like when I felt the most like I was
01:05:32
in Syria on the ground when Matt Drake was was that scene in
01:05:34
Tunisia. So that was good.
01:05:37
Lubyanka at the end was very good.
01:05:40
I thought all the Russia stuff was was done very well.
01:05:43
All the Russia stuff, all the Moscow stuff.
01:05:45
Chris Hendrick sitting on that bench when she's taken all these
01:05:48
little snippets. Four and a half, 4 1/2 for me,
01:05:54
yeah. 100% agree. I.
01:05:56
Think you know that getting some descriptions of the, you know,
01:06:00
when they're in Vienna. Where else does he go?
01:06:03
A little bit of dough like they're they're copper.
01:06:04
Duh. Yep, in the safe house.
01:06:09
We're travelling. Heavy and and Amit Raffi.
01:06:11
Not we are so yeah all. Right.
01:06:15
Do we want to save cover for last?
01:06:17
Or let's end on a positive note with the.
01:06:21
Free space, so oh oh OK. We could also end on a.
01:06:24
Positive note with a cover but. I I think we positive.
01:06:29
Tell me about the cover Chris. OK, I.
01:06:32
I really like this cover. Yeah.
01:06:35
Yeah, I you know. Obviously.
01:06:39
Super Russia heavy tower of the Kremlin, Dave.
01:06:44
Is that one building behind it? Is that Lubianca?
01:06:46
Or maybe it could be a building you were trying to.
01:06:50
Describe to me like. The how the ducks, you have the
01:06:53
Kremlin, St. Basil's and then Lubianca.
01:06:55
So sort of, yeah, they're, they're like a BLOB block or. 2
01:06:59
apart, yeah. So I don't know it perfectly,
01:07:02
but that back building definitely echoes the one on the
01:07:05
right, particularly of Lubianca. But I'm sure it's there's other
01:07:08
buildings in and around Red Square that it could be similar,
01:07:11
but it definitely echoes it. And you got this like fog.
01:07:17
You got this dense, Spock. And I feel like it just it gives
01:07:20
us this ominous feeling. And, you know, especially the
01:07:26
way he describes how Moscow station is in the sense that,
01:07:32
you know, you could just see like a young case young.
01:07:36
Moscow case. Officer walking around it's
01:07:38
super foggy they're looking over their shoulders like non-stop
01:07:43
they're being followed. They think they're being
01:07:44
followed. Are they being followed?
01:07:46
You know, like, all right, it just, I feel like you pick up
01:07:48
this, it sets the mood. I really liked it.
01:07:53
What about you? No, I'll, I'll completely agree.
01:07:56
With you, it's not capture. It's not capture.
01:08:01
Kill me. It it's not the best in the
01:08:03
series, right? It's.
01:08:04
Not like the best one of the series, but it's a very solid
01:08:08
cover. Whether it's Mitch Wrap or not,
01:08:09
it's a solid cover and it still definitely works.
01:08:12
Because the Mitch Wrap books, you could say a lot about the
01:08:15
covers. They almost have their own sub
01:08:18
genre, you know, that that they've carved out.
01:08:21
I think this fits the bill, particularly those books kind of
01:08:25
leading to the Kyle Mills era. I think it also works with those
01:08:30
very nice Mitch rap cover. I like the colour choices of the
01:08:33
orange, like you said, I just see the sky that way in a lot of
01:08:37
the Moscow scenes. And I like the etching on the
01:08:39
words on denied access, whether it's blood spatters or
01:08:43
scratching. I just really smart choice to to
01:08:46
kind of rough it up a little. So and is it supposed to invoke
01:08:49
the image of like is the? Kremlin on fire, you know, like
01:08:52
this kind of with smoke coming up, is it fog at that light?
01:08:55
You know, it, it can make it sort of taken a couple different
01:08:58
ways to make you think, yeah, I think it does enough to make you
01:09:00
want. To pick it up, you see it in
01:09:02
Hudson News or the airport Good it is it a for good?
01:09:09
That's the question. I think that's the question.
01:09:11
I think so. Yeah, I think so too.
01:09:13
I think so. Again, any higher and I'm like,
01:09:17
not quite sure, but any lower and you're being disingenuous.
01:09:19
So right, that's the sweet spot all.
01:09:24
Right, Mike? So use your free space.
01:09:26
Use your free. Space.
01:09:28
You sure I can go first? Yeah, you go, you go first, OK,
01:09:32
it is. Absolutely.
01:09:34
Beauty. Oh, thank you, Sir.
01:09:36
I think it is 100% Irene Kennedy.
01:09:44
You took it, you could take. Every Irene scene.
01:09:47
Out of this book publish a. Book of just what she does here
01:09:52
a. Bit that's a really cool spy
01:09:54
story that like, that's a really, really awesome book.
01:09:57
And it's just her doing what she does.
01:10:00
You can do a novella of the scene where Petrov comes in,
01:10:04
corners, her motorcade and what she does, everything, every move
01:10:08
she's making in her mind, and then how she actually translates
01:10:13
that into action. I think that's where you have a
01:10:18
character like. Irene, who's one?
01:10:20
Of the best written characters in the genre of spy fiction,
01:10:24
period, is because she has the smarts, she has the education,
01:10:30
but she can translate that into action and how she runs a
01:10:33
workplace environment, how she interacts with others, how she
01:10:36
treats subordinates. She's so intellectual and she
01:10:40
doesn't get stuck in her head level intellectual as as many
01:10:44
people could and real intellectuals often do.
01:10:47
She is able to be on the ground even to the point where
01:10:49
Stanfield wants her in the field, running agents, doing
01:10:52
that work. She has a skill set that is so
01:10:55
phenomenal and it just proves why she's basically the only
01:10:59
person who can run rap, the only person who he can trust
01:11:02
operationally, tactically, materially, emotionally, and
01:11:08
just knowing what they each have been through.
01:11:11
And now we get to watch Pursuit of Honor happen.
01:11:14
However many books later. We get to see their development,
01:11:19
their relationship. We get to see Mitch and Tommy
01:11:21
eventually. To know what's coming in store
01:11:24
for Irene is made all the much better by seeing her at the top
01:11:27
of her game right now is she's always at the top of her game.
01:11:31
Like Irene Kennedy doesn't miss and Don Bentley knew that and so
01:11:35
he knew she had to be one of the stars of this book.
01:11:38
And it and it landed. We have landed that plane five
01:11:41
points just for Irene. All right.
01:11:45
Well, you, you obviously took, if you weren't going to go
01:11:50
first, I was going to go Irene. For me, the other like major
01:11:55
standout point of this is for me is is Stan Hurley.
01:12:00
I think that you know, getting and you know, more so his
01:12:04
relationship with rap, rap and seeing how it matures.
01:12:06
I think that seeing that because we we really actually don't get
01:12:12
that much time with Stan and Mitch, you know, not at all.
01:12:17
We get American Assassin kill shot now this book and then like
01:12:21
2 books in The last Man and the Survivor.
01:12:28
But yet his presence sits over this series so much, you know,
01:12:33
because in the future he's referenced and stuff like that.
01:12:36
And so just being able to get a little bit more of the nuance
01:12:41
and introspection into that relationship for me is just it's
01:12:45
it's a delight. So completely agree.
01:12:49
We even get to see him. Give Mitch the belt.
01:12:52
Yeah. Does Mitch use the belt?
01:12:53
Because I know Hurley uses it. It's his trademark.
01:12:56
He has one in the future, for sure.
01:12:58
Yeah. I think at times he does.
01:13:00
But it's always Stan's thing and so to actually have him gift
01:13:04
that rap for their Moscow op and and the first time rap had one
01:13:07
was for the Moscow op to get in. Really cool.
01:13:12
Honorable mention to Thomas. Stansfield I I he.
01:13:15
Could have very easily, he could have easily been one of them as
01:13:18
well. It's almost like a three-way
01:13:19
tie. It's a it's a three horse race
01:13:21
for sure. Interesting.
01:13:22
We didn't say Mitch. No.
01:13:27
What did you think about like Mrs. Mitch's progression in this
01:13:29
book? I think like the like we said,
01:13:31
the very end conversation between him and Lewis was very
01:13:35
good, was good. The rest of the book does he
01:13:39
just. Is he acting how you think he
01:13:43
would act besides the? Barcelona scene, which we
01:13:44
covered like every other instance, he acting like how you
01:13:47
think he would act. It's tough to say because he's
01:13:49
in a transition. Period of I have a girlfriend
01:13:53
now like we came out of the transition.
01:13:57
Period of I'm getting recruited American assassin come out of
01:14:00
the transition period of can I trust any of these people kill
01:14:03
shot? Was this a mistake they're
01:14:05
trying to kill me to now the transition period of can I live
01:14:09
this way and have a girlfriend? Which is the age-old story in
01:14:12
these all these novels, all these thrillers.
01:14:15
The age. Old story was can I do the job
01:14:17
and have a family, keep them safe?
01:14:18
What's the cost? What's the sacrifice you make?
01:14:22
And so it's like we. Have to kind of do that we.
01:14:25
We have to explore that. But Mitch Rapp's a person who
01:14:29
Mary comes up quite a bit. In this book or.
01:14:31
Maureen, the dream, who knows? Mary.
01:14:34
Don Bentley double s down with it's going to be Mary moving
01:14:36
forward. I think American Assassin also
01:14:38
called her Mary, and it was transfer of power that might
01:14:41
have called her Maureen, if I'm not mistaken.
01:14:43
So yeah, there is. There's definitely a
01:14:44
discrepancy, yeah. I could see Mary.
01:14:48
Being a nickname for Maureen, ones like.
01:14:49
Your birth certificate name kind of thing.
01:14:51
But yeah, so she's mentioned a lot and.
01:14:54
I think. That's why rap didn't feel like
01:14:56
rap to me is like, he even says like Hurley's.
01:15:00
Like, let's go to war with these people.
01:15:02
He's like, I have enough wars going on.
01:15:03
What? What Mitch?
01:15:05
I have. I have.
01:15:06
A girlfriend to protect? Yeah.
01:15:07
Excuse me, I'm just going to walk out of this app to go find
01:15:10
her. What like and Stan Hurley was
01:15:13
taken aback as as we the reader were, so it was.
01:15:16
It's hard to have Mitch be Mitch that we know and love from 20
01:15:20
plus books at this point he comes through.
01:15:23
He comes through and by the. Lubyanka, like undercover as
01:15:26
this Hezbollah guy, like his physical features make sense for
01:15:28
that. Like that is that is Mitch
01:15:31
through and through. Like when he impersonated Uday
01:15:33
Hussein on that op with the Humvee.
01:15:35
Yeah, they drop in off the off the airplanes.
01:15:39
Yeah. Mitch going undercover, if you
01:15:41
will, this Hezbollah guy like it's Mitch being Mitch.
01:15:44
I just think early. Mitch in the book, I wasn't sure
01:15:49
if he. Hit for me could be the Stephen
01:15:50
Webber problem because definitely Mitch Rapp's voice on
01:15:54
the audible book pissed me off. I'll leave it at that.
01:15:59
So maybe that's coloring my judgement.
01:16:01
But I mean put it this way, in this book Irene is God tear A+
01:16:06
plus plus. Stansfield and Hurley are a
01:16:08
plus. Mitch's maybe like.
01:16:11
AB plus in. This book.
01:16:13
So that's kind of where I would put him second honorable mention
01:16:18
in terms of standouts of the book.
01:16:19
So take that for what you will, all right, All right.
01:16:25
Well, I think we were. We were fair, critical, but, you
01:16:29
know, giving praise when praise was due.
01:16:32
Yeah. This book sits kind of right
01:16:33
where I thought it was going to be.
01:16:36
Maybe. Well.
01:16:37
If you take away the bonus points.
01:16:38
We gave it, it sits right at like a 3940 for for the both of
01:16:42
us. Deserves the bonus point though.
01:16:45
Don't take that. Away from me.
01:16:46
Yeah, True, true. So I give it a. 41.5 you give it
01:16:50
a 40. Point fives not cracking.
01:16:54
Our top five not. At the bottom of the barrel.
01:16:58
So good old middle of the packman.
01:17:01
Trap book, yeah. Super intrigued to see where we
01:17:05
go to next though. It almost begs the question,
01:17:08
what's next? It's even like, more intriguing
01:17:10
than. Where does he go after capture
01:17:13
or kill? You know, like completely.
01:17:17
There's story to tell. That's all I'm going to say.
01:17:18
There there. Really has to be story to tell.
01:17:21
And I tried to get it out of dawn.
01:17:22
I knew we wouldn't. But if I could just see a
01:17:27
glimpse of whatever book he's writing.
01:17:30
Can't wait. But it gives us something to
01:17:31
look forward to another year before we get to relive the
01:17:35
adventures of Mitch Rap. This was fun.
01:17:38
This was fun. Yeah.
01:17:41
Close our Mitch. Rap Pod Chapter 4 Another year,
01:17:44
another year, next time. We're going.
01:17:48
Back to, oh, we should say that this book hit #5 New York Time
01:17:52
bestseller. Congratulations to Don, but
01:17:56
we're going to be covering the number 2 for the second week or
01:18:00
the 4th week in a row. Dan Brown's.
01:18:04
New book Secret Secrets. Yes, and cry Havoc Jack.
01:18:09
Carr as well will be coming out in the next covering that
01:18:12
covering that we have, that we have.
01:18:13
We have a bunch of books on the slate, guys.
01:18:15
Yeah, one other we're going to go kind of off reservation.
01:18:18
From our usual topics project. Hail Mary, Andy Weir in The
01:18:22
Martian, the the third book he wrote, the guy who wrote the
01:18:26
Martian, kind of a different genre, but both you and I read
01:18:29
it, Chris, and blown away by it. Absolutely loved it.
01:18:32
So loved it. Just really wanted probably my
01:18:34
favorite book of the year, honestly.
01:18:36
Yeah. Might be mine too.
01:18:37
It's. Up there, it's a candidate, so
01:18:41
all right, well before. We get out of here.
01:18:42
We need to thank our. Patrons including our Deputy
01:18:45
Directors, Sherry F and Brady, our special agents, Adam, Mike,
01:18:48
Ben, Daryl, George, Matt, Don and Chris H Yes, please
01:18:54
subscribe or rate. And review all.
01:18:56
Three seasons of no Limits. You can find us@thrillerpod.com
01:18:59
Go check out Mike is constantly tweaking our site.
01:19:02
It's looking badder than. Badass ever, right?
01:19:07
Now, so go check that out and as always, Twitter and Instagram,
01:19:10
YouTube Thriller podcast. So one last time and as always.
01:19:17
Let Irene. Be Irene.
01:19:34
You didn't do your Limerick didn't do.
01:19:36
My. Well, just like with the.
01:19:38
Mitropod We sometimes snuck in a little after hours, little after
01:19:42
the outro. Here Limerick was written at the
01:19:46
time of recording. It was written, it was in the
01:19:48
document and it was not an AI Limerick.
01:19:51
This is Mike original thriller pod Limerick.
01:19:55
So yeah, how about a little post credits scene here 'cause I also
01:19:57
have one other thing I want to bring up which does kind of
01:20:00
relate to the Limerick. So Stan Hurley.
01:20:03
Ran the boys of. Berlin and much to Petrov's
01:20:07
chagrin, a new sheriff's in town.
01:20:11
Irene won't back down as Stansfield takes charge with a
01:20:14
grin. Pretty good M1 of your better
01:20:19
ones. Thank you, Sir.
01:20:21
Thank you, Sir. What would you give me?
01:20:23
On a letter grade scale for that one give you a nice A.
01:20:29
Thank you, Sir. Well, the one little thing I
01:20:31
wanted. To bring up Irene and Stansfield
01:20:34
get the upper hand here, and they clearly are willing to play
01:20:38
the Spies game. You know, Hurley's got his
01:20:40
Chicago rules. He he mentions at the end, and
01:20:43
it's so funny. The Russian guy doesn't really
01:20:46
get it, but he nods along and stands like, you don't fuck with
01:20:50
our guys, we don't fuck with your guys.
01:20:51
That's Chicago rules. But I think the Spies game is
01:20:57
established in such a subtle way early on, even before we get to
01:21:00
Moscow, even before Boys of Berlin and heads and boxes being
01:21:04
mailed to people. There's a subtle nod to this is
01:21:07
going to be a next level spy adventure with Irene showing up
01:21:13
late to the meeting. It's a very early in the book.
01:21:15
She shows up late to a meeting with Stansfield, and as she's
01:21:18
shuffling in, Stansfield drops some comment of like had to do
01:21:26
with Eastern Europe. And a source.
01:21:28
Or something like that. And she's like, you were going
01:21:30
to tell me something about Eastern Europe, right?
01:21:32
And she's like. How did he know that?
01:21:33
How the hell did he know that That he.
01:21:36
Must have sources like he must have sources.
01:21:38
And then he even says. Something like, yeah, I got a
01:21:41
mole or two down in your department or in the
01:21:43
counterterrorism centre. It was like, and I have ears.
01:21:45
The ears have the walls have the ears kind of moment.
01:21:48
And Kennedy just has to do all the calculations in like a hot
01:21:50
minute of like, shit, I got to, I got to watch myself.
01:21:53
He's listening. Stansfield, like totally Spooks
01:21:56
her. And then she realizes in her
01:21:58
hand the cover page is revealed for whatever dossier she's
01:22:01
holding, and it has the alphanumeric code that indicates
01:22:03
an Eastern Europe briefing or memo.
01:22:06
And Ken, he's like, oh, wait, but maybe he still has, like he
01:22:11
still does, right? You never know.
01:22:13
You never know what Thomas. He even lets her think that I
01:22:16
just. I just thought that was really
01:22:18
great. And that goes with this quote,
01:22:22
Chapter 16. So a little bit after that, but
01:22:24
quote, the profession of espionage often turned on barely
01:22:27
noticeable details. Very true.
01:22:32
That's it. And and to couple that with that
01:22:34
scene. Earlier of of the briefing, the
01:22:37
lined placed in a certain way. Yeah, a chalk mark, a a
01:22:44
newspaper turned it folded in a in a certain way, that's all
01:22:47
it's it's details, man. It's details.
01:22:50
Don totally got those details. Right, that just takes you right
01:22:53
back to the Cold War era or post just just post Cold War era
01:23:00
fabulously done the. Influence of the Americans.
01:23:02
And the influence of David McCloskey, he Don gave a lot of
01:23:05
shouts to him, right it totally. Makes sense this book was giving
01:23:10
me. Vibes of Damascus station, the
01:23:12
7th floor. Moscow X felt right up there,
01:23:15
which we didn't say on our reading list.
01:23:17
We also have to add the Persian to that list.
01:23:20
David McCloskey We do does not have Proctor.
01:23:23
In it, no, it's not an Artemis Proctor story.
01:23:26
So not our, but she did say he's working on the next.
01:23:29
Book Artemis Proctor will be back.
01:23:31
So we have wait, but I'm a super hit.
01:23:33
I listened to he did a little like clip on Instagram and
01:23:38
promoting pub day and, you know, giving us a little bit of an
01:23:41
idea what it is and it's, it's truly this.
01:23:44
I ran, you know, operatives going in.
01:23:49
So I, I, I'm, I'm super excited. No, I, I.
01:23:53
Really want to do that one and I I don't.
01:23:55
Know if we'll ever get to it. But he also gave a shout to
01:23:57
Milton Bearden, the former CIA officer that David McCluskey put
01:24:03
him in touch with, who wrote a book, The Main Enemy.
01:24:05
So don't know if we'll ever get there, but really cool to know
01:24:08
that these were kind of the influences.
01:24:10
You know, we just had Jack Carr, the way Jack Carr was able to
01:24:13
talk about all the influences on on him and his storytelling and
01:24:16
where he it came from going back to the 60's, the 70's, the 80s.
01:24:21
Really cool to see that Don double down on that, brought
01:24:23
that into the Mitch Rep universe using real contacts.
01:24:27
And I told Don this on our interview.
01:24:29
One of the greatest privileges of this podcast is all the
01:24:32
guests that we get. And, and almost no one was more
01:24:35
interesting than Rob Richer, who was at the time Vince was
01:24:39
writing these stories, the chief of the Near East division.
01:24:42
The job that Mitch would eventually, you know, the the
01:24:44
desk that he would eventually be working on.
01:24:46
And that was Vince's contact at the CIA to kind of show him the
01:24:49
ropes and help him put things in the books.
01:24:52
And to know that Don is keeping that alive by finding guys like
01:24:55
this Milk Bearden who just taken down that that.
01:24:58
History path and. And let him make the books
01:25:01
really authentic. It's exactly what Vince would
01:25:03
have done. Just the process of it all.
01:25:05
It's exactly what Vince would have done.
01:25:09
Yeah, didn't get a helicopter this book, No.
01:25:13
No, no. Which makes me.
01:25:14
Think, what about the pilot? What's he doing at this time?
01:25:18
He must just be in the Air Force.
01:25:20
Well, what's his name? Kyle's pilot that he made-up.
01:25:24
Oh, Fred Mason. Fred Mason.
01:25:26
Fred Mason, Yeah. Can you?
01:25:28
Imagine if at some point if Don continues with this time period
01:25:32
gets some hint of a well, I guess Scott Coleman, right?
01:25:36
That would be fun to Scott. Because the terminals play
01:25:39
Scotts. Yeah.
01:25:40
Is he in the seals? Is it, is it the right time
01:25:42
period? Did.
01:25:42
He start seal demolition yet? Like must have.
01:25:45
Yeah, he's probably still is. Scott's a little bit.
01:25:48
Older than Mitch? Is he older?
01:25:51
The younger. No.
01:25:53
We'll have to get. Daryl on that.
01:25:55
Maybe he's in high school. Maybe Daryl in his wizardry?
01:25:57
Marcus's. Recruitment.
01:25:59
Marcus's recruitment on Paige been crazy.
01:26:02
Yeah, Marcus Drummond's recruitment.
01:26:07
Hey, I'm going to say Kyle did his Anna really Anna Riley
01:26:11
thing, which Don definitely summarized and talked about.
01:26:17
If Don plays it out with the the Drummond Marcus.
01:26:19
DuMont, Marcus Drummond, I'm OK with it because there was
01:26:22
precedent of Kyle doing that with Anna really and Anna Riley.
01:26:24
So true. I'm I'm going to I'm going to
01:26:27
cool my jets and walk things back a little bit.
01:26:28
I think it would be a nice touch if we stick with Marcus
01:26:30
Drummond, just because that will be a nice little nod to Anna.
01:26:34
Really little nod to Vince too, Yeah.
01:26:38
Yeah, Don is absolutely. Deserving of the credit and the
01:26:41
plaudits for putting in the work, being one of us, being one
01:26:45
of the fans, but now also being able to be this torch bearer,
01:26:48
this custodian of the series, this caretaker of Vince's,
01:26:51
Vince's baby. So in Don, we trust, I said on
01:26:54
the interview, so we can critique certain things.
01:26:57
Not every fan has to love everything.
01:27:00
We clearly on the spot are not the cheerleaders who just say
01:27:03
best book ever, best book ever every time.
01:27:05
We think you deserve, the audience deserves, but also an
01:27:10
author deserves honest feedback from fans.
01:27:12
And we're so invested in the series, you betcha.
01:27:15
The fact that we want to dig in and critique it and spend an
01:27:18
hour and a half talking about it at 10:00 at night on a Thursday,
01:27:22
I think that just shows that you know that the series deserves
01:27:26
that level of attention. I I think of that as a
01:27:28
compliment for the series and for every book is that it
01:27:30
deserves people doing this a lesser series, nobody would want
01:27:33
to talk about it. So right.
01:27:36
No, 100% agree. And Don, we trust baby.