🚀 Full spoiler review of Andy Weir’s Project Hail Mary! We break down Ryland Grace’s mission, his bond with Rocky, the shocking ending, and why this might be the best sci-fi thriller since The Martian. Fist my bump.
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CHAPTERS
Chapters
04:54 Exploring the Human Condition
12:10 Character Development and Sacrifice
18:01 Moral Dilemmas and Ethical Questions
25:09 Science and Realism in Storytelling
32:10 Astrophage: The Microbial Villain
39:31 Cooperation Over Conflict: The Book's Core Message
48:06 Hope and Humanity: The Story's Resolution
51:55 Suspending Disbelief: The Ending's Realism
52:08 Ratings and Reflections: Final Thoughts
01:07:00 Cover Art Ratings: Aesthetic and Meaning
01:09:02 Casting Choices: Ryan Gosling as Rylan Grace
01:14:01 Adapting the Story: Staying True to the Book
01:19:01 Favorite Moments: Emotional Highs and Plot Twists
01:22:54 Final Scores: Evaluating the Book's Impact
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KEYWORDS:
Project Hail Mary, Andy Weir, science fiction, human condition, character development, cooperation, astrophage, alien life, themes of sacrifice, realism in science fiction, book review, science fiction, Project Hail Mary, movie, film, character analysis, plot pacing, buy-in, setting, themes, cover art, favorite moments
#NoLimitsPodcast #ThrillerPodcast #ThrillerPod #SpyThrillers
00:00:17
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
00:00:21
And welcome back to this week's No Limits.
00:00:26
I don't even know what podcasts we have this week.
00:00:27
No Limits to Thriller podcast. Sorry about that.
00:00:31
We have a great book talk to you today and you know we have to
00:00:36
have a great book we have to have on a very special guest.
00:00:38
Mike, why don't you introduce our special guest today?
00:00:41
Yes, today we are joined by one of my very best friends in the
00:00:45
world, two of my very best friends in the world, including
00:00:48
Chris. We're joined by Adif, colleague
00:00:51
of mine, fellow teacher. He's the Ryland to my Rocky or
00:00:54
the Rocky to my Ryland. Thanks for joining us tonight,
00:00:57
Adif. It's my pleasure.
00:00:59
Thank you guys so much for having me.
00:01:01
I really appreciate it and I love this book, so I'm excited
00:01:05
to talk about it. Hot take, Chris, you said it
00:01:09
right before we started recording.
00:01:10
This might be our favorite book that we read in 2025.
00:01:15
I don't think I disagree with you.
00:01:16
This is up there as one of the best books I've ever read,
00:01:20
period. Yeah, I guess we should just say
00:01:23
which book we're covering. We're covering Andy Weir's
00:01:26
project Hail Mary. It's definitely by far my
00:01:29
favorite book that I've read this year.
00:01:32
You you're correct in saying that, you know, it's, oh,
00:01:35
originally published in 2021. Wow.
00:01:38
That early? Oh wow.
00:01:39
Way off. On Where have I been?
00:01:42
Exactly. So he came out with The Martian
00:01:47
in 2014. That early?
00:01:51
Wow. Artemis was 2017 to Cal Mary,
00:01:55
2021. I will say I've I have not read
00:01:58
Artemis, but when I read the description of Artemis, I was
00:02:03
like, yeah, this is not really something I'm very interested
00:02:07
in. But then Project Hail Mary, as
00:02:09
soon as it came out, I read it and I loved it.
00:02:13
Yeah, and it's, it's like everything.
00:02:17
I mean, I, I, we should say I love The Martian like I, I love
00:02:20
the movie. The book's even better.
00:02:22
The book's way. Better.
00:02:24
I mean, that's the way. I mean, it's always, every book
00:02:26
is always better. Yeah.
00:02:28
And we can talk about, you know, what we think this movie's going
00:02:31
to be like. You know, that's part of the
00:02:32
reason why we wanted to read it for the pod because the movie's
00:02:34
coming out. You just happen to have, you had
00:02:36
it on Audible or you had it on one of our various audiobook
00:02:43
platforms. And I was like, we were in
00:02:44
between books. Let me read it.
00:02:46
Yeah. You know, me coming in as a
00:02:49
scientist, I, I, that's one of the reasons why I love the
00:02:52
Martian. You know, I read it in during
00:02:54
grad school and you know, mainly that, you know, the biology,
00:02:59
like he gets just everything right.
00:03:01
You know, this is a guy who's a son of like 2-2 scientists
00:03:05
themselves, teachers. You can tell that he one knows
00:03:09
his stuff and he does, and he does his research.
00:03:12
And it's like how Tom Clancy does, you know, he he can beat
00:03:17
you to death with like tech specs on a gun, like Andy Weir
00:03:20
can beat you to death with like, you know, physics and like
00:03:24
explaining the space-time continuum and stuff like that.
00:03:27
But yet he keeps it entertaining, fun and light and
00:03:30
energetic. And, you know, at some point we
00:03:33
got to talk about like the whole human experience and, you know,
00:03:37
the elements that is kind of playing with with this.
00:03:39
You know, I feel like in Martian it was more he was left behind.
00:03:42
He had to figure out how to get home.
00:03:45
This is like a, it's kind of like taking all the good beats
00:03:47
from the Martian, but then flipping it in, in reverse and,
00:03:51
and, and, you know, sort of asking questions about like, you
00:03:53
know, what if Earth, you know, dies and what are we going to do
00:03:57
to save it? So I'm excited to talk to you
00:03:58
guys about this because there's also like some existential
00:04:01
questions that this book, I don't know if it tackles, but it
00:04:04
it makes you think about him at least.
00:04:07
It's definitely a thinking book it he absolutely poses some
00:04:10
amazing and big questions. And while it's about aliens, I
00:04:13
got to say it's really about the human condition as much as it is
00:04:16
it is about the search for extraterrestrial life.
00:04:19
I think it's really about the human condition and empathy and
00:04:22
ultimately the bonds that the main characters build together.
00:04:27
And, and so we should say up front, we are spoiling the book,
00:04:29
if we didn't say that already. For folks who don't know the
00:04:32
Thriller Podcast, this genre is a little bit outside of our
00:04:35
wheelhouse. We are always covering action
00:04:37
suspense thrillers with an espionage spy, military bent,
00:04:42
your Brad Thor's, your Vince Flynn's, Jack Carr.
00:04:46
Well, we're going into science fiction because this book has so
00:04:48
many elements of an action suspense, the thriller with one
00:04:51
guy floating through space and the dialogue is just written so
00:04:54
good. And like I said, the empathy
00:04:56
that's built up with this other character.
00:04:57
So we're spoiling. There are aliens, there's an
00:05:00
amazing alien character, Rocky. And I will say the movie trailer
00:05:03
spoils it as well. So once you watch that trailer,
00:05:06
you pretty much know we make contact.
00:05:09
We make contact with an extraterrestrial species.
00:05:12
Ryland Grace, the the teacher among us does it.
00:05:15
So this is almost perfect. We have a microbiologist
00:05:17
scientist with us, Chris, and we've got a teacher, though not
00:05:20
a science teacher. Well, two teachers, myself and
00:05:22
Adif. What did you think, Adif, about
00:05:24
the book? And particularly the main
00:05:27
character is one of us. He's a teacher.
00:05:29
It's like I'm thinking of our colleague, our science
00:05:31
colleagues back in the building. I love the science aspect to the
00:05:36
character and I think or and the teacher aspect, I think that
00:05:40
really that might have made it more emotional and powerful for
00:05:47
myself was knowing that this was a teacher and he he had, you
00:05:56
know, ambitions beyond being the teacher.
00:06:01
He, you know, he published work that was very radical, and the
00:06:09
scientific community sort of turned against him.
00:06:13
And so as a result, he got into teaching, but he still was very
00:06:19
much, you know, he still has those skills and he still has
00:06:25
that knowledge. And I so, so I love that aspect
00:06:29
of his character is that he is very well educated and he is
00:06:35
definitely like a research minded individual.
00:06:40
He just happens to be a middle school teacher.
00:06:44
And I think that's really cool for him to, you know, and I
00:06:48
think that's part of why I really grab it gravitated to him
00:06:53
as a character when the when the story starts, yes, you know, we
00:07:00
see him when he's sort of like he's got his amnesia while he's
00:07:06
in space. But when the the flashbacks,
00:07:09
when he is actually like figuring out who he is and those
00:07:14
middle school teaching scenes, those really, you know, stood
00:07:20
out to me and spoke to me on a personal level.
00:07:24
Beanbag. And I was glad the movie trailer
00:07:26
picked up on that. He's tossing the beanbags to the
00:07:28
kids and seeing Ryan Gosling in the trailer doing that was so
00:07:33
much fun because I just read the book and I know the adventures
00:07:36
he goes through. And then watching him being an
00:07:38
everyman, you know, getting to see an everyman like you and I
00:07:41
everyday interacting with the kids and how much that means to
00:07:44
him as well. His sacrifice to save the world,
00:07:47
it's hard for him to make that choice, and I think that's a big
00:07:49
plot twist when we learn he really didn't make that choice.
00:07:52
We got to talk about the Strat of it all.
00:07:53
He's forced into it, and all of that becomes more real when he.
00:07:56
Has the trailer. In the trailer, you sort of get
00:08:00
a sense of him being like, I want to do this for my kids, my
00:08:05
students. But at the same time, in the
00:08:11
book, there's a lot more. Like you can really understand
00:08:15
how important his students are to him and how important it is
00:08:20
for him to do the work because he wants to make sure his
00:08:26
students are taken care of. And so I think, again, that was
00:08:31
like something that just really spoke to me as a teacher.
00:08:37
Yeah, and it's interesting, right?
00:08:39
Let you know at what point. I mean, I guess at what point
00:08:44
did Strat in the beginning? You know, he's obviously called
00:08:49
in because of this one paper or whatever, but ultimately, like
00:08:52
you get the sense that he's initially brought in because
00:08:55
he's you know, he's not the best and brightest, but he can
00:08:59
potentially get it done. So he's like potential Guinea
00:09:01
pig, right? Like I don't know if you guys
00:09:03
have seen the movie Mickey 17, but you know, that's that's part
00:09:07
of like the but I haven't. Seen it?
00:09:09
That's part of like the aspect of of the plot of the story is
00:09:12
that they use these, you know, reprintable humans to like test
00:09:17
out in, you know, to build up vaccines, whatever.
00:09:21
So like, you know, it would make sense that someone would want
00:09:24
to, you know, touch and go lightly with our first contact.
00:09:28
You don't know what's going to happen.
00:09:29
But it's just amazing to me, like how he's able to, you know,
00:09:36
he he does it like, you know, and and that's another like cool
00:09:39
thing. I mean, I, I guess, because I
00:09:40
know people who have been in his situation where not not not in
00:09:45
the sense that they've published papers that have been radical.
00:09:48
But I know people that have, you know, got a PhD, try to make it,
00:09:51
maybe didn't get tenure, were forced to you go another route,
00:09:55
whether that be teaching, whether that be, you know,
00:09:59
working for a company. But yet you still always have
00:10:02
that passion to like, you know, be it's like true scientists
00:10:07
like really have that passion, right.
00:10:08
And you can tell that at least that's how Andy Weir writes him.
00:10:14
Like he he he really has that passion.
00:10:16
And then I guess his second passion, like you said, is is
00:10:19
his love for teaching. Like I mean, yeah, it's it it
00:10:21
was a follow up, you know, sort of.
00:10:23
But I think he's now grown into that and ultimately that that
00:10:28
leads to his decision at at the very end, you know, like that.
00:10:30
That was that was amazing. That was emotional at the very
00:10:34
end. What a crazy.
00:10:35
Ending I mean, I don't I don't want to like get cut to the
00:10:39
chase too quickly, but I agree. Like the way it ended was very
00:10:45
much keeping in with like his sort of philosophy.
00:10:51
And I thought that that also related to my philosophy of life
00:10:57
and of being a teacher. The payoff, though, is even
00:11:01
better because a few chapters earlier we were taking on that
00:11:06
roller coaster ride of emotions when he has to grapple with the
00:11:09
fact that he was a coward that, you know, Strat had to literally
00:11:13
strap him down, throw him in prison, force him onto the ship
00:11:17
in a coma. Exactly.
00:11:19
And and he has to grapple with that of like, wow, the whole
00:11:23
time Rocky sees him as this hero.
00:11:25
Rocky even says to him all these times amazing.
00:11:27
You're so courageous. He he's telling him you're so
00:11:30
brave. I can't.
00:11:31
You're doing this for your planet.
00:11:32
I'm doing this for my planet. And Raylan's like starting to
00:11:35
believe that. And like, that's what keeps him
00:11:37
going. And then he learns it was all a
00:11:39
sham and it wasn't true. He, he, he bitched out, you
00:11:41
know, like he was the coward. And but that's OK, right?
00:11:44
Like because he has to learn that lesson and he learns it the
00:11:47
hardest. Way and he's an everyman.
00:11:49
Millions of lens would. Be like that.
00:11:51
We we all would. We all would contemplate no way
00:11:54
like. We all want to be like what he
00:11:56
did, but. Exactly.
00:11:58
I feel like most of us would be like, I'm not going.
00:12:00
The people who volunteer are the crazy.
00:12:02
Ones I think, I think most, most all of us would be in the same
00:12:08
situation where we would be like, no, I don't want to go.
00:12:12
But when we are in that position and then we realize, you know,
00:12:17
there's nothing else for us, then we'd be like, OK, I will do
00:12:23
this. All that just makes the ending
00:12:26
even that much sweeter when he's teaching the kids on Original.
00:12:31
I don't even know how you would say the Planet Ray Porter when
00:12:34
he's in the audio. When he's teaching those Rocky
00:12:36
kids, I'm like, that's amazing. That is so perfect.
00:12:41
And he comes alive. It's the same ethos and like
00:12:44
energy of the Ryland Grace teaching in the beginning of the
00:12:47
book in his middle school, and he's bringing that same energy.
00:12:50
He's like playing a keyboard. Yeah.
00:12:52
While he's teaching that, does the sound exactly.
00:12:55
And I, he's learning the language.
00:12:56
The fact that he he brings it back to the same sort of moment,
00:13:01
like who can answer this question?
00:13:04
Yeah, it's exactly like what he was doing on Earth.
00:13:08
That's beautiful. It's such A and I was wondering
00:13:10
how you quote UN quote, yeah, land this plane.
00:13:14
How you how you you dock this ship, if you will, about halfway
00:13:17
through the book. I was getting so stressed out
00:13:19
and so tired out of, you know, the, the line from the Martian,
00:13:23
right? We got to science the shit out
00:13:24
of it. I myself as the reader was
00:13:27
getting exhausted with how many problems Rocky and Ryland had to
00:13:31
solve and it just an endless battle, right?
00:13:33
It was a war of attrition against the elements of physics
00:13:38
and these guys survived it and came out the other side for a
00:13:40
while. They had to separate when we
00:13:42
thought their friendship was over and they're going back to
00:13:44
their home planets. The dramatic twist and turn of
00:13:47
fate going to find Rocky ship to tell him you uncovered the
00:13:50
problem. All of that was just so
00:13:53
stressful that to land that plane in a very satisfying happy
00:13:59
harmony was was really it. It made it hit even more the
00:14:02
ending because I had no idea what was going to happen and I
00:14:05
never imagined he'd be teaching kids on another planet like he
00:14:08
would be. He'd be the alien to to Rocky's
00:14:11
people. That was definitely not
00:14:12
something I expected when I. Started the book.
00:14:16
No, no. No, I assumed it was going to be
00:14:19
like, you know, some sort of interstellar where, you know,
00:14:25
they somehow figure out, you know, to go back in time or or
00:14:30
something like that. Or he just he has to sack, you
00:14:33
know, like he couldn't sacrifice himself in the beginning.
00:14:35
But in the end he does decide. And I guess ultimately he does
00:14:39
just sacrifice himself. He he makes that choice to go
00:14:43
back, warn Rocky, give him, you know, some more Tala Niba to be
00:14:50
able to, you know, save his home world.
00:14:53
And at the same time he sent the The Beatles back.
00:14:57
Right. So he's doing both and he's
00:14:59
he's, but when he does that, he doesn't know that they're going
00:15:03
to figure out that he can eat. Tell me, but just survive.
00:15:06
And then, you know, then, then they figure out how to make him
00:15:09
some food. Clone his flesh full, full.
00:15:11
Well knows that in that moment, he's making the constant
00:15:15
decision to save not one but two entire species to and sacrifice
00:15:21
himself. So ultimately he makes the he
00:15:24
makes the crazy choice. In the end, he's he's no longer
00:15:26
a. Coward.
00:15:27
That's why it's full circle from the conversations with Strat
00:15:30
earlier is that he finally made that choice of his own free will
00:15:33
to save his friend and and to save his planet at the same
00:15:36
time. And I, I everything came full
00:15:38
circle. But I will say the fact that
00:15:42
Strat like you know. You know, let's talk about.
00:15:45
Him in such a challenging position and was basically like,
00:15:50
yeah, you have to do this. And he was like, no, no, no.
00:15:54
And she still was like, I'm going to drug you and you're
00:15:59
still going to do this. Like that's pretty crazy.
00:16:03
It's in line with her character though.
00:16:05
Like she is that hardliner. She's that one minded totally.
00:16:08
You're right. Like it makes sense in
00:16:10
character, I guess you can question the morals of it all
00:16:12
and the ethics of it all, but we were questioning questioning the
00:16:15
ethics of it all from the minute we met Strat.
00:16:17
And she's whisking him away to this nuclear submarine, Chinese
00:16:21
submarine. And then she even has the
00:16:23
hearing with the copyright infringement lawsuit and she
00:16:26
just lays a smack down on the like that's.
00:16:28
Great. I love that law.
00:16:30
Yeah, that court, that court setting where she's like, I
00:16:33
don't know, I don't care. What you're talking about here
00:16:37
is my document. Like I'm out.
00:16:41
Yeah, the UN and the president agree.
00:16:43
I could do whatever I want. So you and what Army is going to
00:16:46
sue me for copyright infringement?
00:16:51
I guess you know it poses the moral question though if when
00:16:55
tasked with you knowing that if you don't come up with a
00:16:59
solution, the world will crumble.
00:17:03
The greater. Good.
00:17:05
Like how far are you willing to go?
00:17:09
And how far are you willing to force others or control others
00:17:13
outside of their own free will? For that greater good, I mean.
00:17:18
I mean, it's a big question. I think it it really depends.
00:17:21
Like, if it's literally the end of the world, then you have to
00:17:27
be willing to do anything. And so, you know, that's why I
00:17:34
understood Strat's character and what she was doing because she
00:17:39
was taking advantage. Not advantage, but like she was
00:17:44
using the authority that was given to her because she knew
00:17:48
this was a life or death situation and and she made her
00:17:55
decisions based on that. And so even though he did not
00:17:59
want to go after the accident, she was like, no, you have to.
00:18:06
And like, I don't care if you don't want to, you are going to
00:18:10
go because you are the best person to help us solve this
00:18:16
problem. And she knew that all along.
00:18:19
All along, she had a plan. She did.
00:18:21
I was going to. Do you think she?
00:18:23
You think she wanted him to be on that ship?
00:18:25
I think she wanted him to be on the ship.
00:18:27
She was either going to force him to be the 4th man or she
00:18:30
always knew he was going to be the backup.
00:18:33
Think as at once she found out that he he had those genetic
00:18:38
markers. I do think she was like you are
00:18:42
going to go, you are going to be the backup regardless.
00:18:46
Yeah, that, that. Also that's the thing when that
00:18:49
accident happened like that was crazy.
00:18:53
Yes. When the like, the whole, you
00:18:57
know, Bikoner basically blew up, that was intense.
00:19:02
And then when that happens, everything sort of changed.
00:19:08
The stakes are even higher. Exactly.
00:19:11
We're we're put some interesting other like secondary characters
00:19:15
in here. Like we have the Russian, you
00:19:19
know, his other astronaut that's on the crew, the the Russian
00:19:22
girl, the the two scientists that are are supposed to be go
00:19:29
on the original mission and then they have this weird love
00:19:32
triangle like sex fest like that was very interesting.
00:19:36
That is hilarious. Those are two seeds.
00:19:38
There's like the American and I don't know the other one, but
00:19:42
there's the American astronaut, the male and he's they just like
00:19:47
have this great as you know, relationship where they're like,
00:19:50
oh, let's go have sex right now. And then they just like schedule
00:19:56
it. It's.
00:19:56
Just so funny and Ray Porter reads that perfectly.
00:20:00
The the audio book is perfect on the the humor.
00:20:03
I didn't, I have not heard the audio book, but in my mind when
00:20:08
I was like, very good, yes, we scheduled, you know, and the way
00:20:12
like in the book, the way it's written, it's so funny because
00:20:17
it's the exact same thing. It's just like, yeah, we we had
00:20:21
sex and we're going to have sex again in 20 minutes.
00:20:25
It's just like it is so funny. There's almost for for talking
00:20:30
about pacing and plotting how this is perfect, balancing the
00:20:33
flashbacks, you know, them developing the program and then
00:20:36
that is kicking right back to him needing to recall that
00:20:40
memory or use that knowledge in the planning phases to
00:20:43
understand the ship better or change the mission.
00:20:45
That's the pacing and plotting is perfect.
00:20:47
The humor is dropped in, I think in perfect intervals because
00:20:51
it's not only those two when they're planning the mission,
00:20:53
it's rocky when they're out in space.
00:20:55
I find extraordinarily hysterical just just by nature
00:20:58
of, of who he is and how he thinks humans are so dumb and
00:21:02
they they don't have the memory that he has.
00:21:04
And and then even his language. Right fist, my bump, fist, my
00:21:07
bump is, is just one of my favourites.
00:21:09
Thank, he's like thank, thank. And then there's one he asks
00:21:13
Riley and he's like, hurry, hurry, hurry.
00:21:15
I I think whatever they have to save the Astrophage or one of
00:21:18
the fuel tanks is, is leaking and Ryland's trying to do
00:21:21
something on a computer and the computer's booting up and
00:21:24
Ryland's like, I'm waiting for the computer turn on.
00:21:26
It goes hurry, hurry, hurry. And he goes, OK, I'll wait
00:21:28
faster. It's just great.
00:21:32
It's all around. It's hitting every beat.
00:21:33
It's hitting every beat. I I will say again, a lot of
00:21:37
that internal monologue is very similar to The Martian.
00:21:42
But with a very different character.
00:21:44
That is, you know, that humor, that sort of internal monologue
00:21:49
and self deprecation. Like I I enjoyed that a lot.
00:21:56
Yeah, I feel like he he does a good job of making Rocky super
00:22:00
interesting and and and, you know, funny.
00:22:04
So that way, like it's not just some, I don't know, I feel like
00:22:07
you could make an alien be a little dry, you know, not as fun
00:22:13
as it, as it turned out to be. I don't know, I, I found that
00:22:16
the interactions with Rocky and then, you know, having Ryland
00:22:20
have to, to figure out like all of his different, you know,
00:22:23
situations and really like, you see this friendship grow and
00:22:27
blossom over, you know, 2/3 of the book.
00:22:32
I just that friendship is it's very interesting, you know, and
00:22:36
I don't know, it's probably one of the best parts of this book.
00:22:39
No, that friendship is amazing to watch how they like come to a
00:22:48
relationship and it's honestly like the way they figure it out
00:22:53
through, you know, the panels on the wall and it it's like, oh,
00:22:59
this one clear panel. This is how we can make it work.
00:23:04
Like I I thought that was really cool.
00:23:07
Between that scene with the panels, because that's the
00:23:09
first, that's the first contact right when he sees the claw, if
00:23:12
you will, for lack of better word.
00:23:14
That is perhaps the height of action suspense slightly before
00:23:19
that when they when he first encounters the ship and Rocky
00:23:23
sends out the tube and he's got to make that Hail Mary pass.
00:23:27
So, you know, he's got to catch the Hail Mary.
00:23:29
I actually I just read that. That's the height of the book
00:23:32
for me, between action, suspense, plot, it's it's kind
00:23:36
of right in the middle. I just feel like it's singing at
00:23:39
that point. When we first make alien
00:23:40
contact. If you weren't drawn in already
00:23:43
with all the coming out of the coma, coming to being in another
00:23:46
star system, realizing you're on your own millions of light years
00:23:50
away or whatever. If that didn't grip you, the
00:23:52
second that canister is thrown and he's about to make alien
00:23:56
contact. If if you're not gripped by
00:23:58
that, you're not paying attention.
00:23:59
The whole description of that encounter is amazing.
00:24:04
And like, yeah, oh, he threw this canister.
00:24:07
I've got an hour. I need to, like, go out and get
00:24:12
myself on the hull of the ship and make sure I can catch this
00:24:17
thing. I mean, yeah, that whole
00:24:20
interaction is amazing. And then you have to do the
00:24:22
science on it. Yeah, then, but then opening up
00:24:25
the canister and seeing like all of these, you know, he figures
00:24:29
out like what he's what he's trying to communicate that oh,
00:24:31
like his Zargon mine's oxygen. And then he's able to like,
00:24:35
communicate in, in that sense to, to be able to, you know, the
00:24:39
things you would initially want to establish between, you know,
00:24:42
2 alien races. Like it's a map.
00:24:45
Yeah, the solar system. It's a map of of each.
00:24:47
Other's solar system, that whole, that whole, you know,
00:24:51
scene where he is, you know, interpreting what was inside the
00:24:56
canister, that is hard. I don't think like a lot of
00:25:01
people would figure that shit out.
00:25:05
Like, he clearly is a very intelligent person and he's able
00:25:10
to make sense of what was presented.
00:25:16
And I, again, I think that was really impressive.
00:25:19
You know, based on what was shared in the canister that he
00:25:25
was able to figure that out. You know, to me that was very
00:25:30
impressive. Yeah, I will also say the
00:25:32
language was impressive of how the two learned each other's
00:25:35
language. They're even realizing they need
00:25:38
common measurements of time. And he's trying to teach them a
00:25:40
clock to know, like, I'll be back in this amount of time.
00:25:43
And they arrange their meetings. He's using software as well,
00:25:46
like audio editing software to pick up on Rocky's noises and
00:25:50
match them to words. Everything is covered like Andy
00:25:54
Weir is covering every element. That was also part of what Strat
00:25:59
was in court for, right? Because she was like using, you
00:26:03
know, some sort of proprietary exact software.
00:26:07
And she was like, we didn't have the software our astronauts need
00:26:10
to have access to every single piece of software.
00:26:16
I don't care. And.
00:26:17
And so, yeah, that was really cool.
00:26:19
Yeah. He ended up using some very
00:26:21
basic sort of how do I turned, How do I turn sound into text?
00:26:30
Language, yeah, yeah, there's the payoff.
00:26:33
Everything is covered, everything comes full circle and
00:26:35
and we there's not one like dangling thing that there's no
00:26:38
payoff for or where the payoff is cheap.
00:26:41
Like it felt like it was just stuffed in there because as the
00:26:44
flashback, he he structured it where each flashback related to
00:26:48
what Ryland needed in. That moment.
00:26:51
Yeah, yeah. And it and it felt authentic.
00:26:53
It's crazy to say our buy in score in a little bit we might
00:26:56
switch over to our scorecard in our rankings of this.
00:26:59
My buy in score is a perfect five out of five, five points.
00:27:03
And we're talking about aliens, a human contact, you know, light
00:27:06
interstellar travel. And I'm so bought in thinking
00:27:09
all of this is actually realistic.
00:27:10
Like nothing felt cheap that took me out of the story or
00:27:13
removed me from caring. Yeah, and I think that that's
00:27:18
all work that Andy Ware puts in to to be able to hit all those
00:27:25
beats and not leave any gaps. And I feel like, you know, this,
00:27:29
like we said this, this book has nice pacing where, you know, you
00:27:33
have this opening section, what's going on progression
00:27:38
into, you know, first contact and then immediately like, all
00:27:43
right, we have to establish all these different things And like
00:27:45
those things in themselves are suspenseful and they keep you on
00:27:50
your seat. And then then you have to move
00:27:52
on to the progression of, right, we we now can talk to each
00:27:55
other. How do we solve our problem that
00:27:56
we have together? And then you throw in like, all
00:27:59
right, we're going to hit a bunch of curve balls.
00:28:01
Like, you know, the damage in the ship make, you know, how do
00:28:04
we, why are we figured out though?
00:28:07
It's there's a, a towel phage or whatever.
00:28:09
There's a. Towel Meeba.
00:28:11
A towel Meba that eats it. Now we have to how do how do we
00:28:14
then evolve that so it can grow like, you know, and then and
00:28:17
bringing in the final two twists of oh shit, he's going to die or
00:28:22
if I don't go save him. You know, it just it doesn't
00:28:25
stop like making you think it doesn't stop it it doesn't allow
00:28:29
you into things. And it's, I don't know, I think
00:28:31
it's, it's very well perfectly paced with, with these various
00:28:34
segments. I want to say again, and I think
00:28:37
this is part of, you know, what makes we're a great author is
00:28:42
that the science is very real and the science is
00:28:49
understandable, even though like even to somebody who may not
00:28:54
necessarily be very science minded, you can sort of follow
00:29:00
along what's going on. And then so when they're doing
00:29:03
the, you know, generational sort of breeding of Tamima, you know,
00:29:11
you can make sense of that, but that's also very real.
00:29:15
Like, you know, you have to genetically sort of, you know,
00:29:22
breed something and then you breed 2 characteristics, and
00:29:27
then that characteristic will be helpful.
00:29:30
And so I thought that was really cool, the way he, you know,
00:29:35
presented that whole process. And it made sense in the book.
00:29:40
But he wasn't perfect either, which was a a refreshing part of
00:29:44
this 'cause he can't just win every time with his science
00:29:48
experiments. He failed even to understand
00:29:50
astrophage in the beginning. It was trial and error, and it
00:29:52
was trial and error right up to the last minute, evolving
00:29:55
Tamaeba 86 or whatever they needed to get to.
00:29:58
He was so delicate in how he evolved it.
00:30:00
He had that big win. He got Tamaeba to the
00:30:03
evolutionary stage to save both planets.
00:30:05
Then he realized when you mess with evolution, and maybe this
00:30:08
is like a a warning to to our ourselves with genetic cloning
00:30:13
and CRISPR and everything. When you mess with evolution,
00:30:16
and he trained Tommy, but to exist in Rocky's atmosphere, he
00:30:20
was also training it to get around that, to find ways to
00:30:23
hide into inside the Zenanite. So that's science, right?
00:30:27
You never know what you're going to come up against.
00:30:29
You never know the mistakes you're making as you're making
00:30:31
them to solve another problem. You don't know how many other
00:30:34
problems you're creating. And that has deadly consequences
00:30:37
for scientists in interstellar space and scientists here in the
00:30:40
planet. So I think it's just also a
00:30:42
cautious, A cautionary tale this book as well for what we're
00:30:47
putting our hopes into ourselves.
00:30:50
I would agree with you 100%. Yeah.
00:30:53
Yeah, anytime you're doing gain of function research.
00:30:56
Gain of function. Did If you make mistakes, there
00:31:01
will be serious consequences and even if you think what you're
00:31:07
doing is going to be right and is the right thing to do, there
00:31:12
can still be negative consequences.
00:31:14
And I think he really highlights that in the book.
00:31:19
What do you think about the astrophage of it all?
00:31:20
Can we can we get there? It's kind of like the elephant
00:31:22
in the room because if astrophage, when it's first
00:31:25
presented as the initial life form that has come to our solar
00:31:28
system, if you don't buy into its it's properties, it's
00:31:33
ability to basically perfectly do E equals MC squared to
00:31:37
convert all of its mass into pure energy, you then don't buy
00:31:41
the spin drive, right? Then you don't buy into how we
00:31:43
reproduce it and how we cultivate it.
00:31:45
So what did you think about the astrophage of it all?
00:31:48
And that's kind of the linchpin that makes the science work or
00:31:52
not, if you buy into that. Absolutely.
00:31:56
I was bought into it and I was bought into it mostly because I
00:32:01
think it was perfect to center your alien light form villain,
00:32:06
the thing that's going to take down, you know, the entirety of
00:32:12
the human race as literally this just this tiny little black bug
00:32:16
that is perfect at converting energy.
00:32:20
It's you know, often when we see these movies that are depicting,
00:32:25
you know what, what will take us down?
00:32:27
It's these, you know, face eating creatures and and stuff
00:32:30
like that. When in actuality, like it's a
00:32:33
micro probably makes it probably makes most sense that our first
00:32:36
intercounter with with alien life would be a microbe.
00:32:40
And I think it does a good job of this, you know, talking about
00:32:43
panspermia, right? You know, to think that like,
00:32:46
all right, it makes sense that like, maybe, you know, I don't
00:32:48
know, it gets into definitely some contested scientific, you
00:32:53
know, ideas and you, you have to like sort of either take that as
00:32:57
face value or, or buy into it. But I don't know, I think it was
00:32:59
perfect to put your quote UN quote villain in the story to be
00:33:03
this tiny little microscopic black thing that, you know, you
00:33:08
can't even see into it until you kill it.
00:33:11
I I I thought that was a stroke of genius.
00:33:13
Agreed. Who will say I, I like that you
00:33:16
said quote UN quote villain because I don't think that, you
00:33:21
know, Astrophage is really a villain.
00:33:24
And so when we were looking at your scorecard or when I was
00:33:28
looking at your scorecard and, you know, one of the things was
00:33:31
like, I just never really thought of Astrophage as like a
00:33:37
bad guy. You know it was just doing what
00:33:41
it needs to. Do it, you know, ultimately.
00:33:44
It is, right? Yeah.
00:33:46
It's the reason they can get to space.
00:33:48
Exactly, it's the and it might be the reason that we can solve
00:33:51
our energy crisis moving forward and it's just another life form
00:33:55
trying to survive. I never, I never considered
00:33:58
astrophage to be like a negative thing.
00:34:02
I and so like throughout the whole story, you know, even, you
00:34:06
know what? They figured out how to turn it
00:34:09
into the spin drive, and they realized that it was, you know,
00:34:13
feeding on stars, but not every, I mean, everything.
00:34:17
I was always like, it's just doing what it's supposed to do
00:34:21
because that's what life does. Right.
00:34:25
And then when you introduce tell me, but it's like, these
00:34:27
patterns are so recognizable, but now they're on a galactic
00:34:30
scale of eating up a star's energy.
00:34:33
It's the freaking life cycle. You know, it's a pack of lions
00:34:35
hunting, you know, whatever, you know, prey is around.
00:34:40
And now Taumeba and Astrophage are doing that and we have to
00:34:44
understand it and study it and travel light years away to
00:34:47
collect it and harvest it and cultivate it really is just the
00:34:50
same old story. Life eats life in this really
00:34:54
other cool setting. So it's, it's just
00:34:55
understandable to the readers because it makes sense in terms
00:34:58
of our science and and our our nature that we that we live.
00:35:02
Absolutely. And I think that's part of the
00:35:04
the appeal of the book. The appeal of the book is the
00:35:09
fact that it is able to talk about these things that, you
00:35:15
know, obviously relate to us on Earth, but they can be relatable
00:35:22
outside of Earth. And I think that's what makes
00:35:24
this book so interesting is that it takes these ideas that we are
00:35:30
always thinking about on Earth and it puts them beyond the
00:35:35
Earth. And I think that's, you know,
00:35:37
that's why I really enjoy it. You know, and you mentioned
00:35:41
something else about how do you categorize A villain for this
00:35:44
book? At times I thought it was Strat
00:35:46
when she's forcing him into it, but she ultimately is the reason
00:35:49
he saved Astrophage is killing Earth.
00:35:51
But it's ultimately what we need to survive as a species that I'm
00:35:55
learning that through this podcast.
00:35:57
We've read hundreds of books. I almost prefer books with no
00:36:01
villain and the only villain is the elements.
00:36:04
Whether it's time, physics, there's there's another series
00:36:07
out if we covered called falling and drowning where basically
00:36:10
every book is just a group of people, every man situation.
00:36:14
People put underwater in a crash plane fuselage and they have to
00:36:18
survive together. There's no bad person who put
00:36:21
them there. It's it's like physics put them
00:36:22
there and they've got to science the shit out of it to survive.
00:36:25
Or another one. A plane crashed into a nuclear
00:36:28
power plant reactor and the thing's about to explode, and
00:36:30
it's like everyone just has to strap their boots up and get
00:36:33
themselves out of the situation. It gets you out of that
00:36:37
conundrum as a. Crash into a nuclear reactor and
00:36:40
they survived, and they'd have to figure out how to.
00:36:43
Know the. Staff.
00:36:44
Yeah, yeah, no, the plane did not survive at all.
00:36:46
But the staff has to survive, Decide how to.
00:36:49
I was going to say, that sounds crazy.
00:36:51
No dude, crazy. Good book.
00:36:52
So it's like the staff has to prevent the meltdown.
00:36:54
You know, think of like Fukushima instead of a tsunami,
00:36:57
it was an airplane and they have to prevent the meltdown.
00:36:59
So I, I really like these books where you don't have a villain
00:37:02
who's the same old story motivated by money, motivated by
00:37:05
power, motivated by greed. And you all of a sudden have to
00:37:07
make up this complex back story of why do I buy into this
00:37:11
villain doing what they're doing to bring down humanity or hurt
00:37:14
kill our protagonist? You kind of get out of that when
00:37:17
you just make it about like nature, like you just got a band
00:37:22
together and do the work and that's the villain.
00:37:24
If you're not going to do the work and you're not going to
00:37:25
have your head in the game, I'm starting to like stories where
00:37:28
that's kind of how it how it goes along.
00:37:31
Yeah, if you don't cooperate, that's and I feel like that's a
00:37:35
major sort of message from this story is like cooperation is
00:37:43
key. Like it you don't you're not
00:37:46
cooperating against any major country.
00:37:50
It's just a little, you know, single cell Organism that it
00:37:58
could destroy life on Earth. And I, that's I think also why I
00:38:03
love all of the aspects of, oh, we're going to have our
00:38:10
temporary base on a Chinese aircraft carrier.
00:38:15
Like, there's no chance that, you know, the US military would
00:38:21
hang out on a Chinese aircraft carrier and there's no chance
00:38:26
that they would want us to be there unless it was something
00:38:30
that was so serious that we had to do this.
00:38:34
And I that's, that's something that I did really appreciate.
00:38:38
Is that like, because also like when when Ryland got on the
00:38:45
aircraft carrier, all the Chinese sailors were looking at
00:38:49
him and giving him a side eye? That's real.
00:38:52
Because like, that is not normal for, you know, Western people to
00:38:59
be on a Chinese air, to be a spy, especially they don't think
00:39:02
he's a spy, Right? Exactly.
00:39:05
And so like that was really cool and interesting.
00:39:08
And then like after he slept, he had a note that had like in
00:39:13
Chinese was basically like, take him to this place.
00:39:17
And so he just walked out of his room, gave them this note and
00:39:21
they were like, OK, I'm going to take you to the, you know,
00:39:24
command center. And it was just like, I mean,
00:39:27
that is just all very true to I think how it would actually
00:39:33
happen. That's similar to the Russian
00:39:35
too. Like, he becomes really close
00:39:37
friends, almost. Best buzz with this Dimitri,
00:39:39
Russian scientist. And it's like right now, in the
00:39:42
current climate, if there was any sort of military exchange
00:39:45
between China and Russia and the US on nuclear aircraft carriers
00:39:50
or whatever, it would all be a spy spy game.
00:39:52
There would be so much distrust. They would never work together
00:39:55
towards a common goal. You'd always be looking over
00:39:57
your shoulder. Who's going to turn somebody in?
00:40:00
And that that almost gets a little old.
00:40:02
So I was so refreshed when that didn't happen and they all
00:40:06
collaborated. Like my 8th grade history
00:40:08
teacher and coach would have said, it's when the ego becomes
00:40:12
the we go. You drop the eye and you just
00:40:15
the ego becomes the we go. And that that was the message
00:40:17
for our team. Such a middle.
00:40:19
School, middle school teacher thing to say.
00:40:22
I should use that. I I never brought that up to the
00:40:24
kids, but I I should use that. I was wondering though if the
00:40:28
same thing was going to happen at some point when they
00:40:32
separated or when Ryland was having to decide if he's going
00:40:36
to go back home or send The Beatles.
00:40:38
I was wondering if whether it was Strat or whether it was
00:40:41
somebody from Rocky's planet or even Rocky himself was going to
00:40:45
reveal themselves as as bad or maybe self interested.
00:40:50
I was so nervous and text Chris. I was texting you manically
00:40:53
because you read the book earlier.
00:40:54
You knew what happened. I was waiting for the other shoe
00:40:57
to drop and I was like, is somebody going to sabotage this
00:41:00
shit? Like is somebody from Rocky's
00:41:02
home planet going to have programmed into whatever the
00:41:05
fact that if we meet another species we eliminate them or out
00:41:08
of? You recommended to me Dark
00:41:11
Forest and Shi Shin Liu and the three body problem.
00:41:14
I was waiting for the dark forest theory to play out of if
00:41:18
we ever do find another life, we cannot reveal ourselves to it.
00:41:22
The second we reveal ourselves to other life forms we have to
00:41:26
automatically be destroyed. It's like a 0 sum game.
00:41:29
So I was waiting and the theory is you're in a forest if you
00:41:32
turn on a lighter right? If you make yourself known, if
00:41:34
you send out signals to the universe, everyone else who sees
00:41:38
your lighter now knows your location and you basically just
00:41:41
lost your competitive edge and they have to eliminate you for
00:41:43
their own survival. And I was wondering like when
00:41:46
the hell is that shoe going to drop?
00:41:48
And it's Strat? Do something devious and plan
00:41:50
into this. If we need another life form we
00:41:52
have to wipe them out instantaneously to save
00:41:54
ourselves. And I was so happy when that
00:41:57
didn't happen. When everyone was good, the
00:42:00
other species we met along the way was our friends.
00:42:03
I was, I was so glad there wasn't this typical villain who
00:42:06
throws a wrench into things and becomes humans first, right.
00:42:09
You know, America first, humans first.
00:42:11
I didn't want to see that evil kind of propaganda storyline
00:42:14
play out of we have to just destroy any other species out
00:42:17
there in the world because we humans earth good, you know, And
00:42:20
I was like, oh, thank goodness. This is about cooperation and
00:42:22
unity and and not one of those cheap stunts.
00:42:27
Yeah, I was reading a couple of the reviews of his book and it's
00:42:30
like 1 one person said Project Mary will make you feel good.
00:42:34
You know, and I, I feel like, you know, a lot of science
00:42:38
fiction has these end of the world themes, right?
00:42:41
And it's murderous aliens, death, destruction, you know,
00:42:46
but here he subverts that, right?
00:42:48
And he he challenges you, you know, to think outside of our
00:42:54
Hollywood box, right? Like these aliens are not just
00:43:01
big green googly eyes here to probe you up the butt.
00:43:05
Instead, he imagines an alien as a giant rock.
00:43:11
That's so unconventional. The fact that this giant rock is
00:43:16
not here to eat you. He doesn't even eat like our
00:43:20
stuff. That wouldn't even make sense
00:43:22
that he would be able to eat like American like an American
00:43:25
to eat, you know, earth stuff, you know, like unless it's an
00:43:29
exact replica of of, you know, from this Goldilocks.
00:43:33
But yeah, like, I don't know, We we like to think too highly of
00:43:36
ourselves that we are like the the end all be all like in that,
00:43:41
you know, if someone was to come here, they would want to take
00:43:43
all of our stuff. They're here to, you know,
00:43:45
destroy us. But, you know, kind of like what
00:43:48
you said is tell me but or not tell me.
00:43:51
Yes, Tell me by and Astrophage. They're they have no agency in
00:43:58
terms of wanting to get rid of our son.
00:44:00
They're just doing what they can to survive.
00:44:03
It's what everyone does. Yeah, I agree.
00:44:06
I think it is really amazing this, you know, like you said,
00:44:13
there's no real villain. Like, you can't really be upset
00:44:21
at them for just doing what they're supposed to do and what
00:44:25
they need to do to survive. And, and I think that makes the
00:44:31
story a little more compelling because, you know, like Rylan
00:44:37
has to sort of solve this problem, but at the same time,
00:44:42
he's not saying this Organism is bad.
00:44:47
Kill everything. They are.
00:44:49
Out to get us, you know, that's not it.
00:44:52
And he just has to, you know, he and then Rocky, they have to
00:44:56
figure out, you know, how can we sort of help this Organism do
00:45:07
what it needs to do without killing us?
00:45:10
And I think that's really, that's a that's a really nice
00:45:14
way to sort of present the problem.
00:45:19
Whereas like a lot of times, like you said, you know, it's
00:45:22
like, oh, these this Organism is out to destroy all life on
00:45:29
Earth, or it's all, it's just, it's out to kill everything.
00:45:33
That's not what this is. It's just doing its own thing
00:45:38
and we have to. Sort of figure out how to deal
00:45:42
with it. It's a story of hope and it,
00:45:45
like you said, Chris, restores your faith in humanity.
00:45:48
And it very easily didn't need to be like most of the
00:45:51
storytelling is this anything out there with life or resources
00:45:54
needs to be taken, needs to be controlled, needs to have the
00:45:56
strong man. And it it just subverts that
00:45:59
whole element of storytelling in a really nice, refreshing way
00:46:03
while keeping the stakes super high.
00:46:05
And the fact that no one celebrates more than Ryland and
00:46:11
Rocky when the Earth is saved, right?
00:46:12
Big reveal at the end. Ryland lives his whole life on
00:46:15
this planet, teaching the kids, not knowing whatever happens.
00:46:18
And Rocky wants to be the one to give him the news.
00:46:22
The sun soul, Earth's sun is back to its normal state.
00:46:26
You know, you, you won. The Beatles made its way home.
00:46:29
Strat and crew did their thing. They prepped the planet.
00:46:31
They kept the planet through its climate crisis and.
00:46:34
I will say I always, I, I have had sort of, I've done mental
00:46:41
gymnastics to try to figure out how is he able to survive on
00:46:48
Rocky's planet if the gravity is supposedly, like so much
00:46:55
heavier. Yeah.
00:46:57
How is he able? Like, you know, they created
00:47:00
this like little Dome for him, but like, does gravity not apply
00:47:05
in that Dome? I don't understand.
00:47:08
I think it's just like he's able to adjust the gravity on his
00:47:11
ship, you know, I don't think the atmospheric pressure, it's
00:47:15
not the gravity. It's like the yeah, it's not
00:47:17
spinning. I don't know.
00:47:19
But they also like they're much, even though they're way more
00:47:22
simpler than us, they're also a lot more intelligent than us.
00:47:27
Like it's funny to see how they they have aspects of their lives
00:47:34
that he that Ryland deems very, you know, archaic, right?
00:47:39
But then at the same time, Rocky feels the same way towards him,
00:47:43
right? Like various things.
00:47:44
In different ways, and they're amazing engineers.
00:47:46
In different ways, I don't know. Right.
00:47:48
Yeah 100%. I do agree though.
00:47:51
I agree on both accounts. The atmospheres that he does
00:47:54
write off in a way I think it's it's, it's only close to two
00:47:58
atmospheres or 222 G's or maybe 1 1/2 G's.
00:48:02
So like yes, realistically I don't think he survived very
00:48:05
long. He even says at one point like
00:48:07
my bones are brittle and I have arthritis and all this.
00:48:09
So he does like admit to the crushing feel of the gravity.
00:48:13
Long term. You do have to do a little hand
00:48:16
waving I think though. I think you're right, Siddiqui
00:48:17
if the. The very end.
00:48:19
If there's one thing you're not going to buy into, it's it's
00:48:21
possibly the very end and it's also illness.
00:48:24
I think the machines and the robots kept him alive.
00:48:27
He didn't get too sick aboard the ship and nothing like deadly
00:48:31
in terms of his own health. Because we kept saying the robot
00:48:34
arms would come out and inject him with whatever and save him.
00:48:37
But I do think once they get to the planet, it's hand WAVY to
00:48:39
say like, oh, I had a little bout of scurvy.
00:48:41
Oh, they give me medicines for things.
00:48:43
Oh, they make vitamin concoctions that I can ingest.
00:48:46
But you have to do a little hand waving out of how they're
00:48:48
keeping him alive on the planet, eating his own meat, I think.
00:48:51
I mean, a human body is not made to.
00:48:53
Survive. That's what I'm saying.
00:48:55
You know the whole end of the story where he goes to their
00:49:00
planet like you have to suspend. A lot of disbelief, yeah.
00:49:06
You are riding so high, though, at that point, with all the
00:49:08
other winds that the book has, it's like, I'm so, so, so
00:49:12
willing to forgive that and suspend that and move on, No.
00:49:15
No. So am I.
00:49:15
And like, yeah, again, I love everything that comes before
00:49:19
that. That you're right.
00:49:20
He put in the work to make you. Get there, suspend that
00:49:24
disbelief and be like, OK, like, sure, you can survive in your
00:49:29
own little bubble on a planet where the gravity is like so
00:49:34
much more intense than Earth gravity.
00:49:38
And now you're able to teach these aliens like, no, no, I I
00:49:42
was able to just, you know, I was able to accept that.
00:49:47
But you're right, it was because everything that came before it
00:49:51
was realistic and enjoyable. A a lesser book or a lesser
00:49:56
author I would not give that grace to, but the fact that it
00:49:59
was earned 100% allow it, which means I won't Ding it that much
00:50:03
on the scorecard. Should we?
00:50:04
Should we get into our rankings, our ratings?
00:50:07
Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it.
00:50:10
We'll walk you through it. We'll walk you through it. 10
00:50:15
points for action and suspense. I think I might have lost mine.
00:50:20
Did you write it all down? Because we'll, we'll, we'll give
00:50:22
you the categories. You can, you can do it on the
00:50:23
spot. Give.
00:50:24
Me the categories and I'll give you my scores. 10 points action
00:50:28
and suspense. We combine the two because some
00:50:31
books have more of 1 and not a lot of the other, but as a total
00:50:33
10 points action suspense. Out of 10, action and suspense,
00:50:39
out of 10, I would give it A9 because like there were moments
00:50:49
where, you know, he's trying to figure things out or he was
00:50:54
trying to catch, you know the thing, you know, the canister
00:50:58
from the other ship. There were just moments where it
00:51:03
definitely seemed to be intense. So I would give it a nine.
00:51:07
Well, actually no, I would give it an 8.
00:51:10
Really. OK.
00:51:12
I'm I'm going 9. I I think there's there's really
00:51:16
not there's not like a dull moment in this book.
00:51:20
Like it's just I for me it's just constantly suspenseful from
00:51:24
from the gecko. Yeah, I was even going to go
00:51:28
higher. I'm going 9 1/2 if you'll grab
00:51:30
me the half. Point OK.
00:51:31
There's a slight reason I'm not going to a perfect ten, which
00:51:35
also comes up in plot and and I think it deserves to be split
00:51:39
between action, suspense and plot because plot is also 10
00:51:41
points. Pacing, plotting, and how how
00:51:44
the story chugged along. I was also going to give it a
00:51:47
nine and a half there because I have no major Dings on this
00:51:50
book. But each of the half of points
00:51:52
is because it was a little too much of a good thing.
00:51:56
It was like I was on the edge of my seat just a hair too many
00:52:01
times where by the end I was getting fatigued.
00:52:04
But it was so good. I can't think of a full point.
00:52:07
Same thing with plot. I was, I was like on the edge of
00:52:11
my seat in terms of I might not believe this thing, but it's
00:52:14
explained so well I have to believe it.
00:52:17
And it was like asking me to do that one too many times by the
00:52:22
end of the book. Just on a little like mental
00:52:24
fatigue is not a bad thing. No, no, fair.
00:52:30
I don't think it was. I was working so hard to to to
00:52:33
follow and and and bring it along.
00:52:35
I'll give you an example. There were so many moments where
00:52:38
you had to science the shit out of it to survive, when we had to
00:52:41
do one more with the tameba poop at the end and the tameba hiding
00:52:45
inside the Zenanite and was just like, we already did so many of
00:52:48
these, like I lost my fuel container, jettison the fuel,
00:52:51
and then oh, another thing's broken, Fix that.
00:52:54
Oh my God, there's a hole in the ship.
00:52:55
What do we do about that? And then I have to go on the
00:52:57
space walk. How do we do that?
00:52:59
It was almost, and that's why it's not a full point thing
00:53:01
because it's not a bad thing. It's just a little too much of a
00:53:03
good thing. Half a.
00:53:06
Point fair. I I hear what you're saying,
00:53:08
definitely. What do you give me an out of?
00:53:14
I will say again for sort of action and suspense, I will say.
00:53:24
You were a. Idiot.
00:53:25
I will go with A9. OK, you're going up to 9 on
00:53:28
that. What about plotting plot and
00:53:29
pace? Plot and pace.
00:53:34
I mean, I, I enjoy the plot a lot.
00:53:36
I think the pace is good because it's, it's also, that's another
00:53:41
thing. It's not a very long book.
00:53:44
It's pretty succinct and I appreciate that.
00:53:48
So I would give it a nine for plot and pace.
00:53:52
It's also like a really easy page Turner, like I I wanted to
00:53:57
keep listening reading. I also had the kindle, so like I
00:54:02
was able to hop back and forth when I'm in bed in the car.
00:54:07
Yeah, I'm also giving it a nine and a half and my main my main
00:54:11
reason is like you, Mike, like what I can't like put like too
00:54:17
fine of a point on it other than it just was a lot like, you
00:54:22
know, like it it was all good, but it was just like wow at the
00:54:26
at the very hand. I was like, really, I'm like,
00:54:29
I'm not, I'm not pissed at like that he did it.
00:54:31
I'm just, I'm pissed for like Rocky and you know, like really,
00:54:35
we could. We'd made it all the way here
00:54:37
and. And then this.
00:54:39
Like we have to do this like, yeah, so.
00:54:42
Yeah. I hear that.
00:54:43
No, I I get it. Yeah.
00:54:46
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I could probably go up
00:54:48
to a 9 1/2, but I'm going to just stick with 9.
00:54:51
Yeah, Yeah. The next one, buy in.
00:54:54
It kind of encompasses a lot of what we talked about already,
00:54:58
but we've interpreted the buy in score also as believability.
00:55:01
So it's buy in as a page Turner and buy into the believability
00:55:04
of everything because I've already got my mini gripes out
00:55:08
of the way. I think I got to go 5 on this
00:55:10
because as I'm reading it I couldn't put it down and and I
00:55:13
could have listened to the audiobook.
00:55:15
Forever. Out of five points for
00:55:17
everything else, I'm. Going to give a 5 for sure.
00:55:19
That's the strength of this book.
00:55:21
Definitely A5. Yep.
00:55:24
There's, I mean, if you're not bought in, then I, I, I don't
00:55:28
know what, what kind of book you like.
00:55:31
And this is not our genre. We're not huge science fiction
00:55:33
guys yet. I was so invested in this.
00:55:37
As a science fiction guy, like I mean, I, I get really into
00:55:42
sci-fi, but even though this again is like a very short and
00:55:47
sweet and succinct story, the buy in is there.
00:55:52
And so like I, I bought into it right away, even from like the
00:55:57
first line of the story, I, I was hooked.
00:56:02
And so like I think it is definitely for me it is, it is
00:56:08
A5 for buy in. Yeah, I think you got to do it.
00:56:13
That's true. You are a much bigger science
00:56:15
fiction fan than us. That's one reason I wanted to
00:56:17
have you come in. You recommended 3 Body Problem
00:56:19
to me. You've talked about Asimov,
00:56:22
Arthur. Have you read 3 Body Problem?
00:56:24
No, I have not. Oh dude, I want to.
00:56:27
You got to read it. You got to read it.
00:56:29
It's so good. There's.
00:56:30
Also a Netflix show, right? Wow, yeah.
00:56:34
That was not good. The show is OK but the book is
00:56:37
amazing. Yeah, the book's incredible.
00:56:39
That was actually the first science fiction you ought if
00:56:41
recommended to me. And I I couldn't put down the
00:56:44
whole trilogy. In fact, I would.
00:56:46
I even went to watch the Chinese version.
00:56:48
They they did a television show of it first, way before Netflix
00:56:52
was even talking about it, and it was so good.
00:56:55
It was 1 to one of the book. The problem is exactly there's
00:56:58
such a big story. The thing is, the Chinese
00:57:01
version is like the, the show is very like, it's so dense, it's,
00:57:06
it takes, it's like so many episodes you got to really
00:57:09
commit. It's 20 plus something like.
00:57:11
This one is much more of a westernized sort of adaptation,
00:57:19
and part of it is true to the story, but a lot of it is not.
00:57:24
Yeah, the Chinese 1 though. Definitely read it.
00:57:28
Yeah, 3 body problem, definitely.
00:57:31
It's on my list that. Could be the next book that we
00:57:33
get this group together for on the pod.
00:57:35
I will definitely join you guys to talk about 3 Body Problem
00:57:39
because I love that book. Nice, nice.
00:57:43
Well, our our next category. Is next category.
00:57:46
Yeah, Next category is good guys and bad guys.
00:57:49
So it's five points for each, giving you a total of 10 points
00:57:52
for the characters. We talked about villains being
00:57:55
murky here. So I I think we just put
00:57:56
together characters and give it a total 10 points.
00:58:00
And you could delineate who are the good guys, who are the bad
00:58:02
guys in that, but it's really just good guys.
00:58:04
So let's say 10 points for characters.
00:58:10
Chris, go ahead. I want to go 10I.
00:58:15
I think you have to. I mean, I might too.
00:58:19
I really don't have anyone that like, I don't know, I thought
00:58:23
all the ants all like the extra characters were funny, like they
00:58:26
served a purpose when you, when you really get into it, like the
00:58:30
two main characters being where three main characters, me and
00:58:33
Rocky Ryland and and Strat, like, you know, I think they
00:58:38
each explore something different.
00:58:42
You know, we've kind of talked about the themes that Strat
00:58:44
brings in this idea of friendship between Rocky and and
00:58:48
grace. I I don't know, I there's really
00:58:51
not a bad character among it really.
00:58:53
So no, fuck it, I'm going to go 10.
00:58:57
I think I'm going to, I'm going to agree with you because you're
00:59:00
right. Like all of the characters, even
00:59:03
the side characters, like I, I'm thinking about the, the
00:59:09
astronauts who were supposed to go, but you know, they got
00:59:12
exploded because of the accident.
00:59:15
But like those two who are like, Oh yeah, let's you know, we're
00:59:18
going to schedule our sex like every, every character.
00:59:23
Just added in some extra humor, you know?
00:59:25
Really good. And I, I, I really enjoyed it.
00:59:29
So yeah, I think all the characters, I, I, yeah, I would
00:59:32
go with 10. And like we said, also like
00:59:35
there's no clear villain. I don't consider, you know, the
00:59:41
Astrophage or Tamiba. Like that's not a bad guy.
00:59:46
And so I think that sort of alters my perspective.
00:59:51
Yeah, 10s around the horn. I'm joining you in the one last
00:59:55
detail I will add is that there's even homage paid to the
00:59:59
fellow dead astronauts on the ship.
01:00:01
In that each of their selected suicide methods ends up saving
01:00:05
Ryland the vodka he gets to share the hydrogen gas, the the
01:00:09
heroin at one point was mentioned like each of the
01:00:12
quirks of of the different shipmates and crewmates.
01:00:16
Even postmortem comes back to play a role and have a purpose.
01:00:20
So every character, if you talk the main 3 Rocky, Rylan and
01:00:25
Strat, let's go 11 out of 10, you know, they're so good and
01:00:29
and I just have to give it 10 points.
01:00:30
So I'm with you. I would agree.
01:00:34
Another category that doesn't exactly fit from our usual
01:00:37
schema is setting, although I guess it does you have to give a
01:00:41
lot of credit for setting to the ship, and like if the ship
01:00:45
automatically is a 5 out of five, I'm wondering if.
01:00:48
You say what is the cat? What is the maximum?
01:00:51
Because I would give it maximum because 5.
01:00:54
I feel like he did a great job of putting you in that
01:01:01
environment, whether it was on the ship or on the flashbacks,
01:01:07
like in the lab in Colorado where he was, you know, figuring
01:01:12
things out when he built the, like, dark room to figure out
01:01:16
how to, you know, duplicate the astrophage.
01:01:20
Like everything I felt like was very well described.
01:01:27
So I would say setting for me is A5.
01:01:30
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I think all the
01:01:33
way down to describing the fake world at the very end, you know,
01:01:38
Rocky's Iridium, you know, describing Rocky Ship,
01:01:43
describing the Hail Mary. Yeah.
01:01:47
I mean, I it just when you showed me that picture, I hadn't
01:01:51
seen like a picture yet, but that's exactly what I imagined
01:01:56
in my mind, you know, like it. He he did that good of a job
01:02:00
putting the words on page. So.
01:02:01
And that that's actually published, I did not know
01:02:03
because we did the audio book. I did not know that the print
01:02:06
and the e-book versions come with this little map or diagram
01:02:10
of the ship. I think that's that's a super
01:02:11
cool addition to any book a map. Actually, that helped me really
01:02:15
understand the whole the dynamics of like when he woke up
01:02:22
and he had gravity and then when he stopped it and everything
01:02:26
like went to shit, like every, everything fell all over the
01:02:29
place. And then he realized like, oh,
01:02:32
now I realized, like why I made a mistake.
01:02:35
I mean, it's just that diagram really helps.
01:02:40
Agreed, and and it's not in isolation either because the
01:02:43
same way everything comes full circle, we get a flashback to a
01:02:47
colleague who actually hated Ryland in terms of his academic
01:02:51
research back when he was a APHD candidate and how he published a
01:02:56
story to piss off the scientific community.
01:02:58
Well, he pissed her off and they're like battling.
01:03:00
Yet she's the one who says hey, all your scientific instruments
01:03:03
need to work in gravity, so let's have a centrifuge built
01:03:06
into the ship. And like they designed it for
01:03:09
that purpose and and so it's just amazing that we even get a
01:03:13
flashback to see how the ship. Was I also love that.
01:03:17
I also do love that like in that moment, Ryland was like, you're
01:03:21
right, correct, I I am wrong. Like he, he, that's another
01:03:27
thing that I love about him is he's able to admit when he is
01:03:33
making a mistake or when somebody else has a better idea.
01:03:38
That's science, right? Or that needs to be science
01:03:41
moving forward. And that needs to be the
01:03:43
interplay between science and politics, Whoever's trying to
01:03:45
control it. Like let science be wrong
01:03:47
sometime. That's kind of baked into the
01:03:49
scientific method, right? Like don't hammer it and say you
01:03:52
can't trust it because it was wrong.
01:03:54
It's supposed to be wrong. And everything we think we know
01:03:56
about science is going to be proven wrong at some later stage
01:03:59
once quantum comes out or what, whatever the next, you know, if
01:04:02
you do it on a microscopic scale or it's just like we have to
01:04:06
have that grace built into our systems, our political systems,
01:04:09
our social systems, our academic scientific research
01:04:12
institutions. If you don't, we're all just
01:04:16
going to constantly battle. And so I, I think there's a lot
01:04:18
of life lessons in this book way beyond, you know, how do we meet
01:04:22
alien species? It's like there's so many more
01:04:24
lessons for us to learn on this Earth right now.
01:04:27
Yeah. 100% Now we wrap up with five points for the cover and an
01:04:35
additional 5 points for a free space.
01:04:37
Free space can be any winner of the book, your favorite thing,
01:04:41
character scene, dialogue, any open-ended free five points.
01:04:46
Should we start with cover or should we jump to free spaces?
01:04:52
Get Let the guest choose. Your choice out of.
01:04:54
Yeah. I mean, we can go to cover and I
01:04:57
would say based on, again, I have the digital cover, but it's
01:05:03
like the astronaut who's sort of flying in space, it looks like
01:05:08
they're sort of floating and, and you know, in the they're
01:05:13
just like floating out and being, you know, whatever.
01:05:16
I, I think I would give that cover out of five.
01:05:22
I mean, I really like it. I would say 4 1/2.
01:05:32
I would give the cover 4 1/2. Yeah.
01:05:36
So we're talking about this is cover A, right, Mike, can you
01:05:39
share the the three covers with? So actually, yeah, three, yeah,
01:05:44
that's what I'm trying to do. What we usually do on the pod
01:05:48
out if is we give the most weight of our score of the five
01:05:51
points to the original cover, right, the standard one.
01:05:54
But then if there were alternate publications, like a little hard
01:05:57
to see for some of you guys in the middle one, whoops, let's
01:05:59
back it out. The middle 1, I believe is the
01:06:01
paperback version that was released in the US and the
01:06:04
interest. The only other copy I could find
01:06:07
was the German one. And it's funny, I heard, I heard
01:06:10
Andy Weir say in a interview that the title Project Hail Mary
01:06:15
is such an American saying and phrase that when they were
01:06:20
considering the international publications, it didn't play
01:06:22
well. Like people didn't understand
01:06:24
the NFL football reference or the saying Hail Mary is a last
01:06:27
ditch attempt. And so we said international
01:06:29
publications change their names. So like the German one here, the
01:06:32
astronaut. And he said they came up with
01:06:34
names country by country for that.
01:06:36
So yeah. I mean that is a cool cover, but
01:06:38
so my I was thinking about the one on the left.
01:06:42
Right, the original. The original.
01:06:44
That one, I feel like I would give that one a four and a half
01:06:49
because it sort of suggests, you know, an astronaut who is out on
01:06:55
their own is totally lost and trying to figure it out on their
01:07:00
own. And so that's why I would.
01:07:02
I like that one. But the other ones are very
01:07:05
cool. Yeah.
01:07:08
Yeah. What I like about cover the
01:07:10
first, the original cover is that, you know, almost these
01:07:13
black essence to it are remind me it.
01:07:18
It got me thinking about the town amoeba, you know, or and
01:07:22
and about astrophage, you know, the sort of bring that in
01:07:26
immediately with this tethering. I'm thinking about like when we
01:07:29
first when he first has to go out there and and and and and to
01:07:34
to catch that, you know, the the first package from there.
01:07:37
So I'm like drawn in and I'm like waiting for this scene to
01:07:40
happen. You know, like in the movie
01:07:43
Gravity, you know, like when you just sort of uncook and you just
01:07:49
go off forever, right. I don't know.
01:07:51
I like it. I like, I, I like his blocking.
01:07:54
It's a similar blocking to some of his other books.
01:07:56
The the the the font. Yeah.
01:08:00
I will also say, yeah, the font is very cool.
01:08:03
The fact that they use the the delta for the a great, I think
01:08:07
that's. Cool store love with the middle
01:08:11
cover. Yeah.
01:08:13
That's OK. I don't know like.
01:08:15
The middle one is trying very hard to be like 2001 Space
01:08:19
Odyssey. Yeah, a little bit of that, a
01:08:21
little bit of Martian and the red, white and blue, I don't
01:08:24
like interesting colour choice for that.
01:08:27
I do like the German one. I'm going to.
01:08:29
I'm going to. Do like the terminal?
01:08:30
I think the terminal is pretty cool actually.
01:08:33
Now a question, do we take? I don't think so.
01:08:36
But do we take into account anything about the Ryan Gosling
01:08:39
of it all and the movie production?
01:08:41
Kind of like images. I can't fit the whole thing but.
01:08:47
I don't love this poster. I'm going to be honest with you,
01:08:50
I I had the same first reaction too.
01:08:54
I don't think we take it into. Account I've watched the trailer
01:08:57
a few times and I mean I'm not a Ryan Gosling hater.
01:09:05
I I think he's good. He does not necessarily capture
01:09:11
Ryland Grace to me from what I've seen so far.
01:09:18
That was my. I don't know if that makes
01:09:19
sense, but. Like no, it was my first
01:09:21
reaction too. What was your IT like you didn't
01:09:24
see it? I wasn't sure about it when I
01:09:27
heard about the casting. And then when I saw this poster,
01:09:30
I had some reservations because it wasn't who I was picturing.
01:09:34
I will say I think, though, they'll pull it off because in
01:09:37
the trailer, I did see him as that nerdy science teacher who's
01:09:41
just in the groove. He almost, he almost reminded me
01:09:44
of a dear friend of ours who's a science teacher.
01:09:46
So seeing him in the moment in the classroom, I was like, OK, I
01:09:49
could buy into that guy. And then transitioning to him in
01:09:52
the meetings where he was kind of dishevelled and his hat was
01:09:54
all like sticking up. I was like, OK, all right, maybe
01:09:57
I could see it now. But based just on the movie
01:09:59
poster, I was curious about the casting.
01:10:03
But I think it could work. And he's funny.
01:10:05
He's had a lot of roles where he he does have that comedic.
01:10:07
Relief. No, no, no, he's definitely got
01:10:09
the. Very part.
01:10:12
I came around to it. I warmed.
01:10:13
Up. But is he too handsome?
01:10:15
Is he? Too good looking.
01:10:16
That's the issue, yeah. I, I think maybe that's what I
01:10:20
can't get over because like, yes, he's got the humor, he's
01:10:23
got the sort of awkward science teacher, then he's got the like,
01:10:29
you know, expert in the meetings, but still sort of, you
01:10:33
know, awkward. And then he's in space and he's,
01:10:37
you know, I, I, I can see him doing all of that.
01:10:40
But I agree, Chris, like he might just be too good looking.
01:10:44
I don't know. Yeah, that also rubbed me the
01:10:47
wrong way. When he comes out of the coma
01:10:49
and he's got the beard and he's looking all shaggy, I was like,
01:10:52
you're going to have just too many people sitting there in the
01:10:55
theaters like, Oh no, my pretty Ryan Gosling is now looking like
01:10:59
a homeless person on the side of the street.
01:11:01
I was like, we could have just gotten away from that by not
01:11:03
casting someone that famous. Well, here's also here's a
01:11:06
question. I wonder how what you guys
01:11:08
think? Are they going to start a movie
01:11:12
The way the book starts? I I watched.
01:11:15
Him. Yeah, he wakes up and he is
01:11:18
figuring everything out. I watched an interview.
01:11:20
Think that's how the movie is going to go.
01:11:22
I was curious so I looked up an interview.
01:11:24
It was done with IGN. It's on YouTube and they had a
01:11:28
number of producers on and the set people on and they had to
01:11:31
own one of the writers, the one who adapted it for a screenplay.
01:11:34
And he said yes, it's going to start with him lost on the ship
01:11:37
coming out of the coma, and the movie is also going to do the
01:11:40
flashbacks in between, so they are going to do the same.
01:11:44
Kind of that that will be impressive because like, that's
01:11:48
not a normal like storytelling revenue.
01:11:53
And so if they're able to actually do the movie in the
01:11:56
same way that the book is done, I, I will have number one, I
01:12:01
will respect that a lot, sure. And #2 I think that will make
01:12:06
the movie better if they're able to do that that way rather than
01:12:11
just doing a linear story. It works so well in the book and
01:12:15
it would be hard to adapt for screen because many times Chris
01:12:17
and I came across the issue of how do stories get adapted and
01:12:20
we agree you do have to change some things.
01:12:23
But if they are going to be brave and courageous and try to
01:12:25
do it like the book, I would absolutely give them props for
01:12:28
that as well if they pull it off.
01:12:31
Yeah, I'm just thinking about like he's done the teacher bit
01:12:34
before with this movie Half Nelson, where he's a he's a
01:12:37
middle school teacher that has a drug problem.
01:12:41
He's very quirky. You know, he he has a different
01:12:43
kind of teaching style. And so obviously that was before
01:12:46
he became Ken, so I don't know. He has like a different
01:12:50
interesting range so. I think, I think he's got range.
01:12:55
I, I think I, you know, I like him again, like sometimes he
01:13:01
just might be like. Too good.
01:13:04
Yeah, too good looking. Like, I mean, you know, like I,
01:13:08
it's hard to see him as just like a regular science teacher
01:13:12
when he's just in his normal Ken mode.
01:13:16
Yeah, yeah, I almost thought the same thing about The Martian
01:13:20
when I heard it was Matt Damon. I remember being like, oh, is
01:13:23
that going to take us out of the story?
01:13:25
Seeing someone that famous as a character we all probably
01:13:28
pictured in our own unique ways from the book.
01:13:32
But I quickly got over that because I I would say that was
01:13:35
actually perfectly in character that he was able to play that
01:13:38
cock shore mouthing off curse word.
01:13:41
I was like, oh wait, Matt Damon is perfect for that.
01:13:43
So it didn't Take Me Out of the story.
01:13:45
Matt Damon did a great job with the Marsha.
01:13:48
I, I always think about the, Oh, my first picture when he does
01:13:54
Nafon's, you know, photo. Like, I think that's perfectly
01:13:59
in line with Matt Damon as a person.
01:14:02
Exactly. And as that character.
01:14:06
And Mark Watney is not Rylan Grace.
01:14:08
Like, they are very, very much different people.
01:14:11
So I think each can work in their own.
01:14:12
Yeah, I think it's going to work.
01:14:14
I think it's going to work. That's enough movie talk,
01:14:16
though. We got to share.
01:14:17
Well, did I give my number on the covers?
01:14:19
No, you didn't give your number. What's your number, Mike?
01:14:22
A slight Ding, and it's a different Ding than either of
01:14:25
you guys. I do love the original.
01:14:27
I do. I do think that's really well
01:14:28
done on the pod out. If we don't judge the book by
01:14:33
the cover, we judge the cover by the book.
01:14:36
And I got to say, one of our pet peeves is if there's a scene
01:14:40
that's not directly from the book on the cover, we want to
01:14:43
see it as it was written. Is there a time he's meant to be
01:14:48
floating on a tether in space like Gravity, where you just
01:14:51
have the sense of he's lost? The only one I could think of,
01:14:54
he's tethered in on most of the EV as pretty securely when he
01:14:58
has to shoot himself out to rocky ship when it's dead in the
01:15:00
water. But I think of that one more
01:15:02
like the movie showed where he's just kind of head first, just
01:15:05
kind of going in a straight line.
01:15:07
This one makes me think of like a free fall or like gravity of
01:15:11
like, Oh my God, the drama is going to be a dude floating lost
01:15:14
in space. And that's actually not what
01:15:16
happens at all. So it works in an artistic
01:15:19
medium to give that drama, give that hook to somebody.
01:15:22
Just looking at this like it's clearly a a space tale, But I I
01:15:26
wasn't sure if that exact pose was ever a pose I thought of him
01:15:29
doing on a spacewalk. No.
01:15:31
I I agree, I think you're right. I don't think that that specific
01:15:35
sort of posture ever really happens in story.
01:15:41
So that's a point that that brings me down to a four then on
01:15:44
covers might be nitpicky. Four, OK, so 4 out of five.
01:15:51
Four out of five. OK, I mean, it's understandable.
01:15:57
Tiny Ding. All right, free space.
01:15:59
What? What was your guys favorite part
01:16:02
of the book? Like if you could give five
01:16:04
extra points to anything and as the guest out of you, you get to
01:16:09
go first. We often, like me and Mike, we
01:16:11
debate who gets to go first because often times we're trying
01:16:13
to steal each other's free. Space, yeah.
01:16:16
So even though I feel like I have some issues in terms of the
01:16:23
reality of this scene, I really enjoy finding out at the end
01:16:33
that he goes to Rocky's planet. Yeah.
01:16:38
And he is incorporated into their society and he is
01:16:43
welcomed. And I I just that that scene,
01:16:46
you know, right when I realized that he is now a teacher on
01:16:52
Rocky's planet for me. I don't know, maybe it's because
01:16:56
I'm a teacher. You know, Mike, you might feel
01:16:58
the same way. But like that to me was like one
01:17:02
of my favorite moments. That's the first one that jumps
01:17:05
out to me. A tearjerker.
01:17:08
Real tearjerker, Chris. That's a good one out of.
01:17:18
I think for me, the real emotional weight was, you know,
01:17:25
maybe it's not the most glamorous, but when he realizes
01:17:30
that he he was a coward. But then I think like at the
01:17:36
same time, the reader is sort of wrestling with this idea of is
01:17:41
he actually a coward? You know, like, even though he
01:17:43
doesn't like really think about it himself in that moment, I
01:17:47
think you were challenged as the reader to to make your own
01:17:51
perception of him because you've now built up this entire, you
01:17:55
know, first half of the story to see like how much he's actually
01:17:57
been able to triumph and do. And.
01:18:00
Yeah, All right. He wasn't the most brave person
01:18:03
at at that moment, but and then and then to finish that with the
01:18:09
ultimate sacrifice that he makes at the end, that to me was just
01:18:13
gave this book a little bit extra meaning than just your
01:18:16
average, you know, science fiction fair.
01:18:19
So. Yeah, I mean 2 great plot
01:18:22
devices, the plot device to have that twist and it was the
01:18:26
perfect time to drop that twist after we thought we knew the
01:18:28
characters and we knew the story so well, both the character and
01:18:32
the audience learn we don't actually have the whole picture,
01:18:35
right? It wasn't as we.
01:18:36
Thought it was to come back to what you were saying, like Mark
01:18:38
Watney, like he did, he did not have that sort of doubt, self
01:18:44
doubt, right. Whereas Riley Grace has that.
01:18:47
And so that's a a nice dichotomy.
01:18:50
Yep. Also, it's nice that the Martian
01:18:54
was the whole planet coming together to save this one guy,
01:18:59
and in this one it's the whole planet is putting their hope in
01:19:02
this one guy saving them. Into one guy.
01:19:05
Yeah, exactly. I that's that.
01:19:07
I like that they I had not thought about that, but you're
01:19:09
exactly right. It's like a reverse, like I
01:19:11
think Andy Weir is playing 3D chess.
01:19:13
Even amongst himself in the whole storytelling arc of his
01:19:16
books, he's trying to undo what he's he's done.
01:19:18
That's right. Those are those are great.
01:19:20
That and the happy ending are too amazing.
01:19:22
That twist and the happy ending, both of those are amazing plot
01:19:24
devices. I'm going to go with the meat,
01:19:27
though. I think from the moment the
01:19:30
container is launched to them figuring out the language
01:19:34
together and tapping the glass and realizing we could actually
01:19:38
see each other and we're about to interact.
01:19:40
That was the pinnacle of suspense in the book and maybe
01:19:43
the pinnacle of the strongest writing in the book, so.
01:19:48
Everything that's also like the most important thing, like being
01:19:52
able to establish communication with a foreign or it with an
01:19:58
extraterrestrial intelligence, like, yeah, the whole process of
01:20:03
how they did it was amazing. Yep.
01:20:06
And it's not actually the first contact with life because
01:20:09
Astrophage was the first contact with life, but it left us, it
01:20:13
left, you know, you kind of beg the question, OK, we might now
01:20:16
know there's microbial life out there, but do we know if there's
01:20:19
intelligent sentient life out there?
01:20:21
And that was still undiscovered and untapped.
01:20:23
And the rocky scene is when it's like, whoa, it's a big, we
01:20:27
already thought it was a bigger picture once we found life on
01:20:30
other planets, and now it's an even bigger picture because we
01:20:32
found intelligent, sentient and empathetic life on another
01:20:35
planet. So.
01:20:36
I like that. No, no, that's fun.
01:20:38
I mean, I love all of these scenes that those are all great
01:20:41
scenes. What does that mean for our
01:20:44
total score then? All right, so me and Otto are
01:20:49
tied at a 47 1/2 and you might have 48.
01:20:54
Boom. This is a very high book.
01:20:56
Some of the highest ratings we've ever given on the pod.
01:20:58
Really. So like you guys are normally
01:21:02
pretty, you know, you, you're very tight with your scores.
01:21:07
Normally, I mean, if it if it typically this goes scores below
01:21:11
30, we just don't talk about it. But you know, I feel like most
01:21:18
of the our good books in the series we've covered are around
01:21:23
like the 45 and the. 40, yeah. And then?
01:21:28
So the again this is amongst the higher the top.
01:21:31
Sure. Yeah.
01:21:32
Oh yeah. Higher books that you've you've
01:21:35
reviewed. Yeah.
01:21:35
And our our categories are kind of skewed towards that thriller.
01:21:41
Right spot like we did today like you know there's no villain
01:21:46
but like we can still talk about like as a character yeah and
01:21:50
that's OK I really want to join you guys and have you guys do
01:21:56
one of these for three body problem all.
01:21:59
Right. I'm in.
01:22:00
I'm in. I will.
01:22:03
Absolutely join you I I love that book.
01:22:07
I love that series. Same thing, you know, like I'm
01:22:10
engaged. I will if you're willing to have
01:22:13
me. I would definitely come back of.
01:22:16
Course, of course. And one last tradition though,
01:22:19
since this is your first time on the podcast, I like to end every
01:22:22
podcast with a little Limerick about each book.
01:22:25
He's going to serenade you with Limerick.
01:22:27
OK, please do because I can't come up with one.
01:22:30
I must have written over 100 limericks now about books.
01:22:32
So here we go. A science teacher named Ryland
01:22:38
Grace woke up in a faraway place, his memory quite hazy and
01:22:44
the odds downright crazy. But with Rocky, they saved the
01:22:47
whole race. Fist my bum, baby.
01:22:51
I'm going to give you like. Snap, snap it up.
01:22:55
Yeah, the snaps, the snaps, the jazz snaps.
01:22:59
Oh, jazz hands. That was good.
01:23:01
I liked that. That was good.
01:23:02
That was better than anything I could come up with.
01:23:04
I forgot about jazz hands. I don't do jazz hands, I do jazz
01:23:08
snaps. No, but so does Rocky.
01:23:09
So does Rocky. Oh yeah, Rocky does.
01:23:12
Yeah, because he he goes like this, he gets.
01:23:13
Excited with all five hands. Yeah, yeah, with all 5, right.
01:23:17
That's right. Well, guys, this was fun.
01:23:19
What a blast. We I'm glad we went out of our
01:23:21
wheelhouse a little bit. Dabbled in science fiction.
01:23:23
It's really only the first, maybe second book if you count
01:23:26
Dan Brown's Deception Point. Odd, if you might like our
01:23:29
episode on Deception Point that that probably is in.
01:23:31
Your I will actually, and then based on what you told me, I'd
01:23:34
I'm going to read it because I have not read it.
01:23:38
So I will read deception point. But again, like I said, if you
01:23:41
guys want to do an episode about 3 body, I'm I'm going to be here
01:23:47
for you. Let's do it.
01:23:48
Yeah, Let's have you back. Well, all I got to say for you
01:23:51
coming on tonight is thank, thank, thank, thanks for joining
01:23:54
us on No Limits, the Thriller podcast Cave and the man cave
01:23:58
over there. Is that the basement?
01:23:59
Yeah, I've got my Matrix poster is my godfather and you know,
01:24:04
2001 Space Odyssey. Nice.
01:24:08
I've got all my stuff. But again, thank you guys.
01:24:11
I really appreciate it. You know, clearly did not have
01:24:15
to have me here, but I really do appreciate it.
01:24:18
It's always good to get another person's perspective.
01:24:20
Yeah. All right.
01:24:23
We need to thank our patrons, including our deputy director,
01:24:26
Sherry F and Brad E, our special agents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Daryl,
01:24:30
George, Matt, Don and Chris. Please subscribe, rate and
01:24:34
review to all three seasons of NO LIMITS.
01:24:37
You can find us@thrillerpod.com or on Twitter and Instagram.
01:24:41
And as always, just let Rocky be Rocky.