"Fog of war, brother."
The season finale of The Terminal List: Dark Wolf brings Episodes 6–7 to a thrilling conclusion. We cover all major reveals, resolutions, and what it means for the characters.
⚠️ Full spoilers for this episode of The Terminal List: Dark Wolf
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CHAPTERS
01:42 Overall Impressions of Dark Wolf
05:43 Character Development and Relationships
08:52 Themes of Brotherhood and Trust
11:46 Action Sequences and Realism
17:43 Cameos and Easter Eggs
20:50 Future of the Series and Character Arcs
23:49 Quibbles and Critiques
26:41 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
41:22 Suspense and Strategy in Action Scenes
46:24 Memorable Lines and References
48:10 Tension and Emotional Moments
55:27 Setting Up Future Storylines
01:03:06 The Future of the Series
01:07:14 Cinematic Techniques and Storytelling
01:10:15 Overall Impressions and Future Prospects
00:00:17
Hey guys, I'm Mike and welcome back to No Limits, the Thriller
00:00:22
Podcast. Even though we don't have Chris
00:00:25
with us tonight, we have another special guest I will introduce
00:00:28
in just a minute. But this episode is brought to
00:00:31
you by our patrons in the Thriller Pod Book Club.
00:00:34
They make this episode and all our episodes possible.
00:00:37
So if you want to find out more about how to join this exclusive
00:00:40
group of thriller fans, we're always talking content, always
00:00:43
talking books. The group chat never stops.
00:00:46
Just go to thrillerpod.com and click on the book club tab.
00:00:50
We could definitely use you. We'd love to see in the group
00:00:52
chat if you're enjoying the podcast.
00:00:54
But let me cut to the chase. Introduce our special guest, a
00:00:57
friend of the pod, a good friend in general.
00:01:00
I feel like he's been my life coach lately.
00:01:02
Welcome back, Tyler Booer. What's going on, Mike?
00:01:06
Listeners, how's everybody doing?
00:01:08
Hope you're having a good day. We've had over the last few
00:01:11
weeks and months, just a couple of good old chats, just give
00:01:14
each other a call, shoot the shit, catch up on life.
00:01:17
And I feel like I've taken some of the advice you've given me
00:01:19
about some things to heart, so I appreciate you.
00:01:22
Thank. You, well, I hope it, I hope it
00:01:24
does what it's intended to do and helps out and makes things a
00:01:28
little bit easier to digest for you.
00:01:30
And I think what was that? It was last November.
00:01:33
I was down your way around the time of my birthday in November
00:01:36
and we were able to grab dinner, which was awesome meeting in
00:01:38
person. I think this might be our first
00:01:40
podcast since then, so. I think you're right.
00:01:43
I think you're right. Many phone, many phone call,
00:01:45
many chats, but first podcast and our first opportunity to
00:01:49
really dig into Dark Wolf. You and I texted about it a
00:01:52
little bit throughout the season, but I don't really know
00:01:54
your full thoughts on it. And now that today we are
00:01:57
covering Episode 6 and 7, for anybody who doesn't know
00:02:00
Thriller Pod, we are the after show.
00:02:02
So we are spoiling episode 6 and seven.
00:02:05
We are getting into the finale. And so I'm kind of curious.
00:02:09
Chris and I have wavered between some episodes.
00:02:12
We gave an A minus. We dip down to AB plus at times.
00:02:15
I think Chris was a little higher when we talked episodes
00:02:18
4:00 and 5:00, and I think I'm still hovering that a minus
00:02:21
range. So I'm real curious to hear just
00:02:23
over all your thoughts on the show.
00:02:24
What was it like getting into Episode 1?
00:02:26
And then what was it like reaching this finale with
00:02:28
Episode 7? For me, I rewatched the original
00:02:33
show season 1 and I'm always, I'm not always listening to
00:02:37
different audio books and stuff, but I'm at least like listening
00:02:40
to some, you know, podcast or interview that Jack's doing.
00:02:42
So I'm trying to stay in the in the hemisphere of what he has
00:02:46
going on. And in my opinion, I think re
00:02:49
watching the original season helped it.
00:02:53
It helped a little bit better to like refresh your memory on
00:02:56
things. I know you and I both have some
00:02:58
mixed feelings on that first season of the original show.
00:03:00
I think that they ditched some stuff that didn't work for that
00:03:04
afterwards that once they realize, hey, this like probably
00:03:07
isn't a long term thing, we should continue.
00:03:09
You know, they kind of ditched things.
00:03:10
So I think maybe they learned a couple of lessons in that first
00:03:12
season. And I, I think that this one,
00:03:15
while I think I grew to appreciate that first season a
00:03:18
little bit more, not that I disliked it or hated it.
00:03:21
I was being very nitpicky about it.
00:03:22
I mean, everybody does that. Anybody that likes Harry Potter
00:03:25
books nitpicks the movies. Anybody that likes Game of
00:03:27
Thrones books nitpicks the show. So everybody that likes the,
00:03:31
the, the, the source material usually nitpicks that type of
00:03:35
thing. And so of course that's what us
00:03:37
as fans are going to do as well. So I think re watching it helped
00:03:42
me appreciate that first season a bit more.
00:03:44
I think if I hadn't watched it, I think I would think this is
00:03:47
probably better in in general. I think if you guys are dipping
00:03:52
down to AB plus on maybe some of the weaker points of this
00:03:56
season, I think it still means that it's a great product for
00:04:00
only cranking out seven episodes.
00:04:02
I think they do a lot for 57 minute episodes and I think in
00:04:06
general my opinions watching them that they got better with
00:04:11
each episode. I think the writing got
00:04:12
smoother. This felt a lot more like a Jack
00:04:16
Carr ran story rather than maybe like the the unreliable narrator
00:04:22
type story that we kind of got given in the in the first
00:04:25
season. I think this is definitely more
00:04:27
that globetrotting espionage that we were promised that was
00:04:31
like the biggest descriptor that we were given going into this
00:04:34
and that it's not like a a, you know, mental thriller.
00:04:38
It's more of like a globetrotting espionage tale.
00:04:41
And it definitely is. I feel like there's some twists
00:04:44
that aren't that, that maybe don't deliver as well because
00:04:48
you can kind of see them see them coming.
00:04:49
But they do that on purpose. I mean, they give you the the
00:04:52
tools to, to see what's what's about to happen.
00:04:55
So where I think you can see it coming.
00:04:58
I don't think it's like overly predictable.
00:05:01
I really like the amount that they used Chris Pratt and Bravo
00:05:04
in it, you know, the first, what, one or two episodes and
00:05:07
then and then the finale, which we'll get to.
00:05:09
So I, I in general, I thought it was very well done and a really
00:05:14
good first of possibly many seasons.
00:05:17
You know, we don't end up with maybe the scene that I wanted
00:05:20
the most, which is Ben being sold the plot line to betray his
00:05:25
brothers. Yeah.
00:05:26
And we don't see that. So the fact that we're missing
00:05:28
that pivotal moment of how he gets bought in or how he buys
00:05:32
into this, this conspiracy is missing.
00:05:37
So I'm curious to see us eventually get to that.
00:05:40
And I think that they did all the right things.
00:05:43
And I know in the past, Mike, you and I have talked about
00:05:46
maybe the the not so successful launch of the first season, but
00:05:52
I know that that they haven't really the Amazon try doesn't
00:05:55
really disclose numbers, but you can usually tell the success of
00:05:58
something based on the the speed of like a renewal.
00:06:01
I think terminalists renewals of this and true believer was a
00:06:05
little slow, whereas like something like Reacher, I think
00:06:10
the first season maybe dropped the pilot episode and they
00:06:12
renewed it for two more. So that obviously had a huge
00:06:15
yeah. And so they're they're hitting
00:06:16
like a target demographic. I've been listening to a lot of
00:06:19
Jack's interviews he's been doing on this PR run for Cry
00:06:22
Havoc and he's actually like lifted the curtain the smidge on
00:06:26
on kind of how how some behind the scenes stuff goes.
00:06:29
And he said that they he doesn't know what the numbers are, but
00:06:31
they were clearly good. And they're hitting an audience
00:06:33
that Amazon has a hard time reaching.
00:06:36
And so he's come up with a couple of cool terms that I
00:06:40
think we'll hear on, you know, here in the future episode
00:06:44
maybe. But I'm interested to see what
00:06:47
what all he has to say in that department.
00:06:48
But back to episode 7. What did you think going from
00:06:52
six into, I'm sorry, 55 into six?
00:06:55
My mistake. What do you think?
00:06:57
Yeah, no, I I thought they really landed the plane.
00:07:00
So overall, you know, once we get to the finale, I feel like
00:07:03
they stuck the landing on some stuff.
00:07:06
They really need to inform the reader and form the list of the
00:07:09
watcher because there's a lot of mystery box and some shows lose
00:07:13
me when there's too much mystery box.
00:07:16
You know, you're just constantly wondering who's on which side,
00:07:18
who's good, who's bad. A little a light touch of that
00:07:20
is nice. We almost flirted with too much
00:07:23
of that. And then by the time we knew Jed
00:07:26
was in bed with Cyrus and we knew those two were plotting and
00:07:30
the guy we thought was the Shepherd, Vaheed, was not the
00:07:32
real shepherd. I thought that plane landed.
00:07:34
So, like, what could have become a nuke on the loose story that
00:07:37
just why are these guys having to chase down nukes and stop
00:07:41
World War 3 or whatever it is? Or, you know, yeah, I'm glad it
00:07:44
didn't become that. And it became instead a more
00:07:47
personal journey of Ben and Rafe and their relationship and the
00:07:50
Iran stuff, to be honest, to me, was a a sideshow in a good way.
00:07:54
It, it didn't need me to be bought in and gripped on.
00:07:57
Who's got the bearings? Is Iran going to make a nuke?
00:07:59
I was actually concerned. Who's lying to Ben?
00:08:02
Who fucked over Rafe? Is Rafe going to get them?
00:08:04
You know, that's what I really wanted to know.
00:08:06
And I think they really stuck the landing on how it drove
00:08:09
those two apart, you know, Blood Brothers and that conversation
00:08:12
on the boat. Holy shit.
00:08:14
I think that's in episode 6 when Rafe splits.
00:08:17
Yeah, I want to. Revisit that from the beginning.
00:08:19
Yeah, I mean, that I think just encapsulates the most important
00:08:25
parts of this show is the personal journey of Ben and
00:08:28
Rafe, their relationship to go from Long live the Brotherhood,
00:08:33
unbreakable bonds be forced into the shitty situation where they
00:08:37
lie for each other, they cover for each other.
00:08:39
Unfortunately, they have to take the hit for it, and then they
00:08:42
still have to still go through that.
00:08:44
You know, they're still iron sharpens iron, right?
00:08:47
They're still going through the forge of of the CIA stuff.
00:08:50
They're clearly different people and they're testing the, you
00:08:53
know, the bonds of that brotherhood.
00:08:55
And it's put to the ultimate test when they each have to be
00:08:59
who they are. And it leads to this
00:09:01
conversation. I mean, just listen to this
00:09:03
writing. This is not only amazing stuff
00:09:06
if it were in a Jack Carr book, this is amazing dialogue.
00:09:09
If it's in any movie, any thriller, any book, it's just
00:09:12
phenomenal writing, period. When Rafe says on the boat,
00:09:17
that's not who we are, That's not us.
00:09:20
Fog of war, brother, isn't it? Two sides trying to do what's
00:09:23
right? It's shitty, but it happens.
00:09:26
You know, I'd never thought I'd see this day.
00:09:28
The great Rafe Hastings afraid to finish the fight.
00:09:32
I'm going to let that one go. I was like, oh shit, he's going
00:09:36
to throw down with Rafe. And it could have became this
00:09:39
very cliche. They just brawl it out right
00:09:41
there. They're tussling around, rolling
00:09:42
around on the boat. And I was like, no, because
00:09:45
Ray's character is the bigger man.
00:09:47
And Ray? Yeah, I think, yeah, I think
00:09:49
whenever you have that Brawl Out moment and stuff like that, it
00:09:52
they kind of get their aggression out and almost break
00:09:55
even in ways in those moments. And I think this being a verbal
00:09:59
exchange digs a little twist. It twists the knife a little
00:10:02
deeper, a little deeper than a than a brawl would have been.
00:10:05
And so I think, you know, you get to see why Ben is so
00:10:09
untrusting of Rafe in the first season of the terminalist, which
00:10:12
is just a little peek that we got from a note, which was the
00:10:16
the insertion boat, I believe, to get to the island for the
00:10:21
finale in the first season, terminalist and Rafe left a note
00:10:25
basically saying that we're now we're even.
00:10:26
And I think Ben makes a comment. So basically saying, I can't
00:10:29
believe you trust that motherfucker.
00:10:31
And from there, I think you kind of just know that Ben distrusts
00:10:36
him. And I I thought at the time it
00:10:38
was because maybe the two of them were fighting over the the
00:10:40
best friend spot for James Reese, for James.
00:10:43
But now, now you can kind of see it more as like, almost like,
00:10:48
for lack of a better term, like a like a a bro, a bromance, like
00:10:52
love triangle of dudes that are all, you know, similar history.
00:10:55
They all got in the teams together around the same time.
00:10:58
In the books, Rafe beats James into the teams by a year.
00:11:01
I don't know Ben's necessarily his detailed situation, but
00:11:06
they're all close to the same rank.
00:11:08
They're all on Bravo Team, But it seems like more like Reese
00:11:12
and Ben are equals. I want to say they were both LTS
00:11:17
or Lieutenant commanders, but I I want to say it was definitely
00:11:20
Reese as a Lieutenant Commander because that is his role.
00:11:23
But this is supposed to be a few years prior to terminalists.
00:11:26
So I don't know what his rank and promotion, you know, status
00:11:30
is like, But I know that obviously Rafe is is, I think
00:11:35
it's, you know, maybe he's just the Lieutenant or just just
00:11:38
under Ben. But you're you're right, they
00:11:40
don't reduce it to that petty Mean Girls teen drama, you know,
00:11:46
in the teams, who's my best friend?
00:11:48
Does Reese like me more to does Reese like me more?
00:11:51
Because you could in some sense read a line like that from the
00:11:54
Terminalist season 1. You could read that into it.
00:11:57
And I think what this show is doing is saying that's not it at
00:12:00
all. It's these two dudes in the
00:12:02
fight with totally different world views, and I bet that's
00:12:06
real. Our operators on the front
00:12:07
lines, well, they have a lot in common, you know, politically,
00:12:10
socially, whatever, humorously, whatever they joke about.
00:12:13
Some of them might come from very different world views and
00:12:15
very different backgrounds, but most probably do not cut from
00:12:18
the same cloth, but just a psychological profile.
00:12:20
They're all going to be very different.
00:12:22
And So what does it mean to throw these dudes in and have
00:12:25
them work through that? Well, I think in the teams you
00:12:28
bond either way, but in the CIA you take advantage of that, even
00:12:32
if they're your brother. Like that's the difference
00:12:35
between ultimately Ben and the ground branch stuff.
00:12:38
They hint at the end. But anybody who's in the CIA,
00:12:40
like a Jed, plays the game at a different level where human
00:12:45
relationships don't mean what they meet, what they meant in
00:12:48
the teams. So I think Jed encapsulates that
00:12:51
and I think Ben has to come to terms and realize in Episode 7
00:12:55
at the end, he essentially is Jed.
00:12:57
He is that. Guy he's he's like Jed Junior,
00:13:00
but you know, I think he is going to become what he hates
00:13:04
where he I mean, obviously he he turns heel at some point, But
00:13:08
something else I thought was interesting is, you know,
00:13:11
whenever they switch over to CIA, you know, I think it's Rafe
00:13:14
says you got to find the brakes brother.
00:13:16
And he he eventually says fuck the brakes.
00:13:18
Fuck the brakes. Which is such a great line.
00:13:22
There's a couple that's a couple of good.
00:13:23
Lines, yes, that's when they're getting.
00:13:25
They're all in the same terrace. It's not when they're doing
00:13:27
Jed's bidding about bearings and shooting German Intel officers
00:13:31
and randomly killing people and having these OPS in nightclubs
00:13:34
that people are getting threatened.
00:13:36
Like, that's when Rafe is like, OK, I got to go back to my
00:13:39
upbringing of there are morals, there is kind of good and bad
00:13:43
and evil. And yeah, this guy Jed is
00:13:44
getting us to blur it exactly. Rafe's the breaking points.
00:13:48
Yeah, for with terrorists, but with terrorists too, either of
00:13:51
them if they're killing bad guys.
00:13:53
But the Rafe is like, this is not killing bad guys anymore.
00:13:55
Well, yeah, he's he's torturing friendlies.
00:13:57
Was his breaking. Exactly, exactly.
00:13:59
Which was an awesome scene. I was happy that they that they
00:14:02
put that in there. It really felt more like a car
00:14:04
story with a torture scene in there.
00:14:06
I know people who aren't familiar with the material.
00:14:08
There's a torture scene in every book.
00:14:10
If not too, yes, usually not with Rafe.
00:14:13
So that was an interesting choice.
00:14:14
No, Yeah, usually it's not with Rafe.
00:14:17
But man, I just I I can't wait to see Tom Hopper more my I'm
00:14:21
I'm very curious to see how how they they've mold true believer.
00:14:26
But we can get to that another time.
00:14:28
I think, you know, going another another point I'd like to make
00:14:32
real quick before we move on from Ben versus Rafe and their
00:14:36
their decaying relationship is, you know, Reese comes and
00:14:40
eventually saves the day with Bravo for Ben.
00:14:43
And so he may be like, hey, my, my brother came for me.
00:14:46
This is who I'm going to trust. And that's probably why he gives
00:14:49
gives up so much of his time and tries to help him in the regular
00:14:53
first season. But what he doesn't realize is
00:14:56
that Rafe was there too. Rafe was there on the tarmac at
00:14:59
the at the airport and he was going to help him, but just
00:15:03
didn't have to. And I think that's the end of
00:15:05
episode 6, right? Yeah, that.
00:15:08
So the end of episode 6 is the amazing attack on the private.
00:15:13
Jet so and the the suspense with the bearings being tested in the
00:15:20
hangar, that was the pinnacle of suspense for the show for me.
00:15:23
I and I didn't even care about the bearings too much, but I
00:15:26
cared. Like what the hell is Ben going
00:15:29
to do when these bearings pass the test?
00:15:32
Yeah, I thought it was a good reveal where you're expecting
00:15:36
these bearings not to be up to snuff and basically, OK, the
00:15:39
three of them are down, but they're, they're going to be
00:15:41
fucked here in a second. And then it passes the test.
00:15:44
And you can almost see Ben. That's when Ben, like, speaks
00:15:47
English for the first time to those bad guys.
00:15:49
Yeah. And it was more of a like oh
00:15:51
fuck, is what he wanted to say. And hold on, that scene is a
00:15:56
major, major connection point to something.
00:15:59
And we got to give a shout out to one of our Facebook
00:16:01
followers, Paul Knowles. Paul Knowles on the Thriller Pod
00:16:04
Facebook page, man, we have the best listeners in the world.
00:16:07
This dude found something and he said the Iranian official who
00:16:12
gets the bearings, I think he's the minister, right?
00:16:14
Cyrus's or Kirush's boss. He says to him on the way out
00:16:19
the price wasn't high enough and he like temps Ben of like you're
00:16:23
selling out your country for whatever it was, 5 million or
00:16:26
whoever knows. And he's just like, the price is
00:16:29
not high enough for you selling out your country.
00:16:31
And in the terminal list, I think it's James.
00:16:35
It might be in the KD scene at the end with the debt cord.
00:16:38
James is like, how much did they pay you or like what was the
00:16:40
price you paid? And Ben was like, the price was
00:16:43
high enough. And I feel like this idea of Ben
00:16:47
basically selling his soul and this Iranian guy mocking him is
00:16:52
just going to have him descend into further madness and chaos.
00:16:55
Yet at the same time, he thinks he belongs in that world.
00:16:59
When he says in the lie detector test when he's interviewing for
00:17:02
CIA. Which dude?
00:17:04
What a treat for the fans, the readers of the books.
00:17:08
But yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that.
00:17:10
Yeah, but but I mean, it just goes to show he's like, why?
00:17:14
Why do you want to work in Ground Branch?
00:17:16
He's like, I belong here. So every Ben getting played by
00:17:20
Jed, that comment from the Iranian guy is all showing Ben's
00:17:24
descent into madness that's going to psychologically mess
00:17:27
with him, which is shown in the opening montage of him on the
00:17:30
boat with the light and the dark in the music credits with Simple
00:17:34
Man. And all of that comes to a head
00:17:37
with this comment from Terminalist Season 1 when Reese
00:17:39
is like, what was the price? And he's like, it was high
00:17:41
enough. Yeah, I am.
00:17:44
While you were talking, I was looking up some different
00:17:49
firearms and stuff because now we're talking about the tarmac
00:17:51
is. I just wanted to confirm that
00:17:54
the gun that that Ben uses, he pulls it out of the trunk.
00:17:57
It's the M249 saw that he. I was wondering if that was a
00:18:00
saw, cause yeah, that thing goes to town.
00:18:03
Yeah, he yeah, it looks like he has a 200 round drum on it, but
00:18:08
yeah, he he just absolutely Swiss cheese.
00:18:11
Is that fucking PJ? The opens up.
00:18:14
Yeah, it's pretty cool. Something else I came across
00:18:16
real quick that caught my attention is, is that Jed
00:18:19
Hapford, when he uses his silence pistol, it is a black
00:18:23
Walter PPK, which I think we can get into a little bit of.
00:18:26
How does the book writing and the show writing either conflict
00:18:31
or mesh and mold? You know, you never really saw
00:18:34
much shotgun action in the books until James finds his dad's in
00:18:38
the trunk of the Wagoneer. And then around the same time he
00:18:42
would have been writing the show.
00:18:43
And Ben's famous, you know, the Mexican cartel base shootout.
00:18:47
He has the, the, the Beretta 1301 shotgun.
00:18:52
So I think maybe you know, shotgun in the book and then,
00:18:54
OK, let's bring a shotgun in the show.
00:18:55
But here we're having a Walther PPK, which you know, is shortly
00:18:59
after. And they would have been writing
00:19:00
this around the same time that he did Red sky Morning, which
00:19:04
was his seventh book, which is like the homage to James Bond
00:19:08
double O 7. And there's a Walther PPK used
00:19:11
in that, which is just a cool detail.
00:19:13
I just the skimming, I was looking for the saw.
00:19:15
I wanted to confirm that it was the M249 SAW but I stopped and I
00:19:18
saw the the PPK and I was like oh that's sick.
00:19:21
Let's be honest, the best weapon though, and the best cameo is
00:19:25
the tomahawk when Reese shows up.
00:19:27
When Reese shows up at Skyfall, which I'm I'm calling that scene
00:19:31
Skyfall because there were two things I was totally thinking at
00:19:35
the final shootout in the Black Forest 1 was Skyfall.
00:19:38
And two is this book Fade by Kyle Mills?
00:19:41
He wrote a really famous scene in that book of this character
00:19:44
Fade, who psychologically is a lot like Ben.
00:19:47
He's got a not so happy history with his military career and
00:19:51
experience. And he does the exact thing in
00:19:55
the house when he kind of like is going window to window.
00:19:58
And then when he jumps into that like cocoon and rolls into the
00:20:00
basement and has things rigged in the basement, he basically
00:20:03
blows up a whole assault team coming at him.
00:20:05
So I, it just felt like I was waiting for the the helicopter
00:20:08
to come and go around this house and just shoot out windows like
00:20:10
and then. Like MMM to be in this church
00:20:13
with. Javier Bardem's there for some
00:20:15
reason. Exactly, I I was just expecting
00:20:19
that but instead it's James Reese with the tomahawk pops up
00:20:23
and the whole crew. It's not just him, it's Boozer.
00:20:24
Boozer makes a great entrance in that barn when Reese's didn't
00:20:27
care. I think out of like the Bravo,
00:20:29
the Bravo team we see, I think we give a few more character
00:20:32
names that aren't in the other show.
00:20:34
I don't believe they're in the book.
00:20:35
But the only other one is like Donnie Mitchell, which is played
00:20:37
by Patrick Schwarzenegger. And the first season wasn't
00:20:40
there, but he is supposed to be a newer guy.
00:20:42
I think in that first season on the on the team.
00:20:45
So he was the only face missing that is on that like OG team but
00:20:50
booze I. Was wondering about that list of
00:20:51
names. Yeah, when he lists off all the
00:20:53
guys that came with him and Boozer, I was like, is that all
00:20:55
the exact same team that we've seen either in other seasons or
00:20:58
in the books? You know, the only other time
00:21:00
they really list off a team of guys is in Savage Sun when they
00:21:03
go to drop into the island. He has a has a team of dudes
00:21:07
with him. That is really the only time I
00:21:10
can think that reminded me of this finale.
00:21:13
But if we I want to get to the finale and then we'll get into
00:21:16
some, some our, our theories and stuff.
00:21:19
But first, if we so we the last big thing we talked about was
00:21:22
the plane attack, which I thought was great.
00:21:24
Most savage part of that episode is Ben cutting the dudes wrist
00:21:27
off to get the the briefcase back was fantastic.
00:21:30
And so Jack hard to have. That Amazon's willing to show
00:21:33
that shit is awesome and a good sign that they realize that the
00:21:37
savagery needs to be there and that's part of the vibe.
00:21:40
Well, that's what Jack's been talking about on some
00:21:42
interviews. Who is the demographic?
00:21:45
And it's like, Rosie, my wife, even she watched this with me.
00:21:48
She's like, yeah, this is just made for you.
00:21:50
Like this is this is made for men.
00:21:51
This is just made for men. Their 30s, forties, 50s, Like,
00:21:54
yeah, it's not my thing. And I was like, you know what?
00:21:57
Almost little to no shows that I could say that for.
00:22:00
So usually I'd be like, oh, I wish we could have watched them
00:22:02
together. I wish you liked it.
00:22:03
I'm like, no, fuck that. Like we don't have any shows
00:22:06
that do this shit. Like if I am watching some cool
00:22:09
show with an operator, it's so unbelievable because it's
00:22:11
Hollywood eyes and it, and then they'll have some, I don't know,
00:22:14
they'll bring up some political point or whatever just because
00:22:17
the producers forced them to. And I'm like, you know what, Can
00:22:19
you just make a God damn good show that tells a story, tells a
00:22:23
story in universe without any external forces, political
00:22:26
nonsense. And I feel like I'm OK if the
00:22:29
show is just designed for a certain demographic.
00:22:31
And like you said before, Amazon likes it too because Jack has
00:22:35
said multiple times Amazon in the at the negotiating table was
00:22:39
pretty confident in the numbers, very happy about the numbers.
00:22:42
Wouldn't say what it is, but it's like they came to us with
00:22:44
some excitement that they were pulling in this demographic.
00:22:47
So I think power to you. And if, if this show is not
00:22:51
pulling in bigger numbers than the first Terminalist season, I
00:22:54
would be shocked. I think the show, it's already
00:22:56
number one on Amazon on streaming.
00:22:58
I think it's going to blow Terminalist Season 1 out of the
00:23:02
water and it's going to bring a lot of people to Terminalist
00:23:04
Season 1. And I think this season, more
00:23:07
than the other one, makes people Terminalist fans for life.
00:23:11
The first season, you may not be interested in coming back to it.
00:23:14
You may not pick up the books, You may not want a Season 2.
00:23:17
You watch this one first. Fuck, you're all in.
00:23:20
You want Season 2? You want Season 3.
00:23:22
I I agree 100%. I think that it was a really
00:23:25
good move to to put the the colon and then have like a
00:23:28
subtitle for this rather than making this like a a second
00:23:31
episode. Now I do like that this has that
00:23:34
beginning scene that takes place towards I think episode 2 of
00:23:37
terminal lists or actually it's like maybe halfway through
00:23:40
episode 1. Anyways, to kind of flash you
00:23:43
back into what's happening with Dark Wolf with with Ben at the
00:23:47
helm of narrating and everything.
00:23:49
There's a couple other things we need to touch on before we get
00:23:51
to finale and and theories and then and then true believer
00:23:54
stuff, which is I really loved Ben Taylor Taylor Kitsch's
00:23:59
reading of his note. His narration was unbelievable.
00:24:03
I thought it was great, those monologues that they nailed.
00:24:06
I read 1 before. It wasn't a monologue, it was
00:24:08
the dialogue on the boat, the monologue of Ben reading his
00:24:11
note. All of that to me screams Jack
00:24:14
Carr. And the other thing that it is,
00:24:17
it almost read like one of his. Preludes, you know how Jack
00:24:20
writes those letters to the reader before every book, And I
00:24:23
will say that might be some of his finest writing, his essays.
00:24:26
I I honestly wish I had just a book of his, of those of, of the
00:24:32
I think it's the the prelude and then at the end it's author's
00:24:35
note. But you know what I also think
00:24:36
is great is the prologue and epilogues sometime are are so
00:24:40
great and they're just great. Like almost like cliffhangers or
00:24:46
bookends. It's completely they're great
00:24:48
little scenes that kind of could stand on their own.
00:24:50
The one that comes to mind for me is Only the Dead with it's
00:24:53
the first time we really jump into Tom Reese and he's on the
00:24:55
docks and something happens with some assets on the docks and
00:24:59
then they meet up at a restaurant.
00:25:00
Like that whole scene was nothing to do with James Reese,
00:25:03
nothing to do with the modern day timeline that was in the
00:25:05
book, yet it informed so much about the plot and it was just a
00:25:09
really awesome written novella. Almost like a lot of them almost
00:25:12
are like novellas. And so to have that echoed in
00:25:15
this letter that Ben's reading, it's like it's philosophical.
00:25:18
It's explaining his worldview. It's making Reese think about
00:25:22
who Ben is in life and where he's at right now.
00:25:24
I think that letter is a big reason that Reese picks up the
00:25:27
phone and says, like, brother, you don't have to carry this
00:25:30
alone. And instead of Reese being like,
00:25:33
what I thought he would say, because this is Hollywood, tell
00:25:35
me where you are, I'm coming. And instead, Reese is just like,
00:25:38
you don't have to shoulder this on your own.
00:25:40
And that's the language I think veterans need to hear from each
00:25:43
other the same way Reese tells the guys, no one thanked our
00:25:46
fathers for what they did in the wars they fought in.
00:25:49
So as one of your commanders, I need you to know I'm grateful
00:25:52
for what you're doing. I'm grateful for who you are and
00:25:54
what you bring to the table. And so when Reese answers the
00:25:56
phone and says you don't have to shoulder this burden alone, I
00:25:59
was like, that's all because he read Ben's letter and he knows
00:26:03
the psychological profile that Ben is right now.
00:26:05
And it's unstable. Yeah.
00:26:06
It's. Bad.
00:26:07
I like, I like the in that moment too, that James and at
00:26:10
least Boozer, I think maybe some other Bravo guys are in a bar
00:26:14
and it it, it kind of takes you back to, OK, that scene in the
00:26:18
first season, the terminal list that actually isn't happening to
00:26:21
James because he's concussed and having having problems.
00:26:24
But it's not uncommon for him and Boozer to be in a bar
00:26:27
together drinking and stuff. And yeah, I just, I just really
00:26:31
enjoyed it. He he talks about how many times
00:26:33
he read the letter and it's sticking with him.
00:26:34
He knows something's wrong. So I really, really enjoy enjoy
00:26:39
that letter a lot. I agree.
00:26:42
And you know, we haven't even talked about this whole time,
00:26:44
but really the hero who saves the day, who's the link between
00:26:47
these two and Reese coming to save Ben is MO MO contacted
00:26:54
Reese. Like I just think that shows how
00:26:57
in mesh he is in their friendship in this dynamic.
00:27:00
He's basically one of the brothers.
00:27:02
And I think MO might have been the best part of the show.
00:27:05
He saves the day with that phone call.
00:27:07
And then when they're all together at the end, basically
00:27:10
with Tal, of which I didn't trust Elisa from the beginning
00:27:13
and I I didn't really vibe with her.
00:27:16
And I know maybe you're not supposed to massage's always
00:27:18
going to stab me in the back if it's part of their mission, like
00:27:20
country first. But Tal, to me, I felt like
00:27:24
appreciated the bigger picture. And she had, she had the balls.
00:27:27
Tal had the biggest balls of almost anybody in this season
00:27:30
like she was. Non-stop.
00:27:31
I mean I love whatever Landry tries to do what he was doing
00:27:34
and she ends up put throwing a knife in his neck pretty pretty
00:27:37
deep, at least enough for him to bleed.
00:27:39
And that was another part. I actually love Hemsworth as as
00:27:43
Landry. Now, I know that Jack has said
00:27:46
he really enjoys him as an actor.
00:27:48
And one of the questions I plan on asking him is, man, does it
00:27:51
suck to like someone so much and have to fucking take their balls
00:27:55
off with piano wire? Because I, I think it's going to
00:27:58
be. I just want to see his reaction.
00:28:00
Don't spoil. Too much now, yeah.
00:28:02
Yeah. So I think that'll injury.
00:28:04
I mean, interesting character, but how he's used here is it's
00:28:09
expected. You get to see his, like his,
00:28:12
his growth into what he what we know he becomes.
00:28:16
Exactly. But he also had to be this
00:28:18
Playboy fool just wants in on the action.
00:28:21
You know, he just, he just wants action.
00:28:24
And he had to be a little naive, a little rough around the edges.
00:28:26
He had to not play well with the boys.
00:28:28
So I think they handled him right.
00:28:30
And I think the fact that you always coupled him and MO were
00:28:33
so smart because that just rings true believer instead of when
00:28:38
they make what I'm going to call Season 3 true believer really
00:28:40
season 2. But I do think Dark Wolf in the
00:28:44
long term is going to be considered.
00:28:45
Season 1. I do think The Terminalist is
00:28:47
Season 2. I think true believer will be
00:28:48
considered. I would agree with you.
00:28:50
I would agree with you. But we're going to get other
00:28:52
seasons of Dark Wolf, the inner, the inner thread here.
00:28:55
And so I think that's when it's going to be thought of as two
00:28:57
shows. It's going to be like how Game
00:28:59
of Thrones and The House of the Dragon are viewed as separate
00:29:02
entities, even though that's true prequel to the other.
00:29:05
That's true. I really do hope people who
00:29:07
don't know anything about the books or the universe, I hope
00:29:09
they start with Dark Wolf I. I don't know if others agree
00:29:11
with me on that. Yeah, me too.
00:29:12
I, I think so too. And just another quick thing.
00:29:15
This is a unique situation We're not used to where both shows are
00:29:17
going simultaneously. Usually the main show starts,
00:29:20
ends, people loved it. So they're like, how can we get
00:29:23
more out of this fan base? They do a prequel and then they
00:29:26
get that fan base to continue. This is a very unique situation
00:29:28
where we have shows running at the same time that are in
00:29:31
different timelines of the same universe, so.
00:29:33
But but the genius of that being really complicated is pulled off
00:29:36
in that, and I said this on our previous episode, Dark Wolf sets
00:29:40
up True Believer way better than anything at the end of
00:29:43
Terminalist could do. End of Terminalist actually made
00:29:45
it hard for me to believe. Whoa, True Believer is going to
00:29:48
be the next season. Like pump the brakes.
00:29:50
That's going to screw people up. But now, after watching Dark
00:29:53
Wolf, anybody who knew nothing about the books can go into true
00:29:56
Believer and have a complete understanding.
00:29:58
MO Landry, the CIA Ground Branch, Wraith Africa, his
00:30:03
background, his morals, who the Hastings family is.
00:30:06
You can go into that now, True Believer feeling great.
00:30:09
The only one you may not know which a show needs to establish
00:30:11
new people is Freddie Strain. So that's a whole nother thing
00:30:14
that will have to come up, but that's that's what you save.
00:30:18
Freddie didn't need to be forced into dark wolf because that
00:30:20
wouldn't make any sense at all. But you need to establish him
00:30:24
and Reeser at some point in true believer.
00:30:26
So I love that that's the only nugget they chose to not preview
00:30:30
or not have like a Easter egg of in Dark Wolf and my other
00:30:35
favorite Easter egg, Victoria Rodriguez name drop.
00:30:39
That means nothing to most fans who don't know the books.
00:30:42
It means absolutely nothing. It was a throwaway line, but it
00:30:44
was so good. It was so good for the readers.
00:30:47
It. It, it was, I was like, oh, man,
00:30:50
like I was like kind of, I wasn't disinterested, but I was
00:30:52
like, OK, we're gonna wrap up here.
00:30:53
And like, he said that. And they like they said that in
00:30:55
the hair on hair on your arm, stand up a little bit.
00:30:57
And I think that we, we didn't touch on any cameos, but Jack
00:31:01
has two in the season 1's kind of brief and kind of cut.
00:31:05
The second one's a little bit more evident, which I think is
00:31:08
in episodes. Five, maybe six.
00:31:11
Well, hold on. He got he was the German
00:31:13
intelligence officer who comes out of the car and gets shot.
00:31:16
Yeah. Did he have another cameo or did
00:31:17
they just replay that? I think they just I.
00:31:19
Know he he has another cameo where he's a security officer
00:31:22
that talks to Jed I believe. Or at least walks past Jed
00:31:24
Haberford. Oh.
00:31:27
So there is another. There is, yeah.
00:31:29
There is another spot that Jack shows up in.
00:31:32
And so it seems like they're maybe filming a couple.
00:31:35
If they both make it, then great.
00:31:37
If not, they they they plan on one maybe being cut, you know,
00:31:40
depending on what what works best.
00:31:42
But seems like he's trying to get killed in every season of of
00:31:45
his shows, which is kind of cool.
00:31:47
Yeah. But I just I just looked up they
00:31:48
did cast Freddie Strain. It's Gabrielle Luna.
00:31:52
I heard they cast. Yeah, he's been in.
00:31:54
Yeah, they he's been in some TV shows.
00:31:57
He was in Terminator Dark Fate, which was a 2019 one that wasn't
00:32:01
fantastic. However, he was the like T1000
00:32:04
Liquid Terminator. So if you've seen that, which I
00:32:07
think in that he was really cool.
00:32:10
He's done some action films and stuff as well.
00:32:12
So he's, he'll, he'll fit the part really, really well, I
00:32:14
think. I have 00 questions or concerns
00:32:18
about casting After Dark Wolf. Like, Oh yeah, me too.
00:32:21
Some people with Terminalist Season 1 brought up a couple of
00:32:24
things. The Katy thing, we don't need to
00:32:25
get into it. Some people are really hot and
00:32:27
bothered by that. I I personally was not, but
00:32:30
after this season casting is not a problem at all.
00:32:33
Like yeah, spot on. I think the, I think the Katie
00:32:36
thing can just for a second, then we don't have to talk about
00:32:38
her anymore. But I think the Katie thing can
00:32:41
be reeled in because I think having a romance brings James
00:32:46
back from like that savagery and brings him back and gives him
00:32:50
that peacetime. Like his piece is in Montana
00:32:53
with Katie, like she is a big part of it.
00:32:55
And I don't think it can be ignored to just for the sake of
00:32:58
an action show. Like you have to humanize James.
00:33:00
That's part of the greatness of him is that he is like a he.
00:33:03
He is like plain Jane, every man.
00:33:06
But he is like the prime predator when he gets set off
00:33:09
and he has to have that peacetime.
00:33:11
Yeah, well, that's why Africa has to happen because Jax even
00:33:15
hinted he wasn't sure Amazon would be too happy with how long
00:33:18
the the Africa stuff was filmed. The same way a lot of people
00:33:23
were not happy about the first entire half of True Believer
00:33:26
actually being that slow burn build up recovery of him and the
00:33:29
team of hunters and, you know, catching poachers on the
00:33:32
Hastings ranch. But I think that's part of
00:33:35
Jack's genius in the book is it's so necessary for the in
00:33:38
universe character. He has to have that path of
00:33:41
healing. The way things happened in the
00:33:44
terminalist. You can't just cut all of a
00:33:46
sudden. And now he's I'm back on OPS and
00:33:48
I have a romantic relationship and this woman that I just took
00:33:52
hostage on this island and was a savage in front of now is
00:33:55
falling for me. You need the healing piece and
00:33:58
you got to take time. So I think I heard him hint that
00:34:00
the first two episodes of True Believer are a lot of Africa and
00:34:04
he said they have a year to edit this thing.
00:34:06
I think filming might have even wrapped.
00:34:08
He said in the year. I guarantee they're going to cut
00:34:10
some of it down. But he goes, we spent so much
00:34:12
time and money there, I don't think they could cut it down
00:34:15
anymore below 2 episodes. Yeah, they can't.
00:34:17
They can't ruin their investment like that.
00:34:18
And it is needed. And I'm happy to hear that it's
00:34:20
the first two episodes instead of the first one.
00:34:23
And I think of the first two episode, like the first episode
00:34:25
I think is going to be sailing, The second episode is going to
00:34:27
be Africa, Africa. And so and then I think Freddie
00:34:30
Strange is going to hop in from there.
00:34:31
And then we would get what, 5 episodes of of action.
00:34:35
So in my opinion, I, upon the first read, I actually disliked
00:34:39
the first half of that book. I was like, Oh my God, let's,
00:34:41
let's go, let's speed it up. But as, as, as time goes on and
00:34:44
I read them more, more times or listen to the more times I
00:34:48
actually miss, if I haven't read it for a while, I miss that
00:34:51
first half because it is the, it's like the first half of Lord
00:34:54
of the Rings of, of Fellowship of the ring.
00:34:57
It is completely the only time it is peaceful and enjoyable of
00:35:02
man. You know what?
00:35:02
This is awesome. And like you could have like
00:35:03
joyful music. Like I love the music in the
00:35:05
first half of Fellowship of the Ring, but it's the only time
00:35:08
that music hits and that's why it's special.
00:35:09
That's what the first half of True Believer is, is it's
00:35:12
special because it's peacetime and it's a little boring, but it
00:35:15
is so much character building in world building.
00:35:17
Like all of the sailing stuff, him remembering college Rafe,
00:35:21
why they're important because you don't get any of that in the
00:35:23
first book. And I think all of that's going
00:35:26
to be important because you don't get any of that in the
00:35:28
first season. You only get the Rafe's
00:35:29
important because of Dark Wolf. So maybe we don't have to spend
00:35:32
so much time on Rafe's history with James, but it's still, it's
00:35:36
still important to to back up a lot of these things, so.
00:35:40
I can't agree more, that was always my favorite part of the
00:35:42
book and even when it was people had your opinion on the first
00:35:45
read or the the first impression like oh this is a let down after
00:35:49
what happened in Terminalist but come on if you kept up the
00:35:52
terminal list level brutality. You'd be burned out.
00:35:55
Psychodrama, you'd be burned out and it would be so unbelievable.
00:35:59
The Africa stuff to me added so much realism, so much, like I
00:36:02
said, healing. He just lost his family, the
00:36:04
tumor, this miracle call from a doctor that he'll be saved.
00:36:08
The CIA has to kind of find him. He's so off a grid.
00:36:11
It shows you the importance of the Hastings Ranch and the land
00:36:14
and how much this family is tied to heritage.
00:36:17
And Reese is part of that. Reese is viewed as part of that
00:36:20
family. And I think that Africa stuff is
00:36:23
so good. I can't wait to see it.
00:36:25
It doesn't have much to do with true Believe with Dark Wolf, but
00:36:29
I think it does because that would come out of the blue
00:36:31
starting True Believer. And now it doesn't because Rafe
00:36:34
has hinted at Rhodesia so many times.
00:36:36
People are going to see the African stuff and be like, got
00:36:38
it, Reese and Rafe. Yeah, I really loved him talking
00:36:42
about Rhodesia during the torture scene.
00:36:44
And that background is is super important.
00:36:48
And I like, I like whenever James is on the phone with Ben
00:36:51
and he says that our Rhodesian friend is exploring some, some
00:36:54
chants, some I think he says some official.
00:36:56
Other channels, yeah, because he's actually trying to collect
00:36:59
evidence, go to CIA, clear all their names, take down
00:37:02
Haverford, which I think Ben just sees as complete folly.
00:37:06
Ben's like, at that point after race split, he's like, that's a
00:37:10
waste. What are you even doing?
00:37:12
The only way, the only way we come out of this is if I show up
00:37:15
with the bearings, I expose the teams and we get tall on the
00:37:19
comms to catch Haverford in a lie.
00:37:21
And like, if we don't get that evidence, it's game up.
00:37:24
And Rafe wants to be the good boy.
00:37:26
Go tell the go tell the CIA my story and they'll believe me.
00:37:29
And, and Ben's like more of that realist that like dejected
00:37:33
realist who's like, Nah, man, the hard work's got to be done.
00:37:36
Like the hard work's got to be done.
00:37:39
Can't give a quibble if, unless there's any other major scenes
00:37:41
we might have missed or not covered.
00:37:43
I I just have two quibbles. Go ahead.
00:37:47
The cuts for stuff. I didn't like it really the
00:37:51
first time. It just became there's this
00:37:54
super army on call hiding out all across Europe who's just
00:37:58
going to flood a building with shooters or flood a street with
00:38:00
shooters out of the blue. And they're actually tied to
00:38:03
Iran. And everyone knew they were cuts
00:38:05
for us. And like, maybe these
00:38:08
paramilitary groups are hiding out from other countries in
00:38:11
Europe, ready to strike in a moment's notice.
00:38:13
But when we did the tunnel shoot out, I think episode 4 with the
00:38:17
with the the bearings and the German intelligence, I was like,
00:38:20
God, this is too video game ask. Like these guys are just
00:38:22
respawning. They're NPCS, they're just
00:38:24
coming at it. We mow them down, we move on.
00:38:26
Like it was really good action, but it was the first time in the
00:38:29
show I said it's kind of bullshit.
00:38:30
It's kind of like video game ask.
00:38:32
And then the next episode they have the hostile shootout.
00:38:35
Same amount of guys swarm the hostile massive shootout in the
00:38:38
middle of a European city. To me, that's not ACIA story.
00:38:42
A CIA story is not a massive shootout in a European city.
00:38:45
It's like the more secret squirrel stuff like they were
00:38:48
starting to do with the nightclub and in the nightclub
00:38:50
going through the alleys and how they had to chase Masood Denawi
00:38:54
through the alleys of the sleepy city in this little village.
00:38:57
To me, that's like more if CIA OPS go South and things turn
00:39:00
hot, it's more that it's not 50 to 70 guys pour out of a van
00:39:05
around every every turn and start fighting you in a hostile.
00:39:09
And then they did it a third time where they they just popped
00:39:12
up at the at the Black Forest. I was like, I just don't
00:39:16
understand that we're respawning.
00:39:17
It was so video game esque. It was the cheapest thing about
00:39:20
the show. And it's the only time I
00:39:21
questioned. This isn't very realistic.
00:39:23
It would. Yeah, my big quibble.
00:39:25
I agree with that. I think one of the only things
00:39:28
is like, if you have someone who's trained as a SEAL, not,
00:39:32
not all the characters are, but MO is supposed to be great,
00:39:35
obviously. So you have Rafe and Ben, and
00:39:38
let's just say I've, I've heard this brought up in the books,
00:39:42
that one trained SEAL gunfighter is worth like 10 inserts.
00:39:47
That's right. Yeah.
00:39:48
Well, guess what? If you want them to feel, if you
00:39:50
want the viewer to feel like they're in danger, they can't be
00:39:53
going up against three dudes. They're gonna fucking wax them
00:39:54
every time. And so I think the numbers is
00:39:57
kind of trying to make it make you nervous.
00:39:59
But here is one of my quibbles is I don't like how close to
00:40:03
death Ben comes in the finale. I think he's like on the brink.
00:40:07
He's doing the breathing thing. It reminded me a lot of Lone
00:40:10
Survivor, which he was also in. Yeah, but I think.
00:40:14
He talked about Rogan. He was on Rogan.
00:40:16
Talked a lot about filming Lone Survivor, Yeah.
00:40:18
Yeah, yeah. I just think my, my problem is
00:40:21
we know he survives. We know he makes it like stop
00:40:25
trying to, to really lay in like how many, how many minutes are
00:40:28
we just focused on him popping up, shooting, popping up,
00:40:31
shooting and then breathing. He's injured, popping up,
00:40:34
shooting. And it's like we, we know he's
00:40:36
struggling. He's probably not going to make
00:40:38
it. So like, let's get to what's
00:40:39
going to save him here. And then, you know, there's
00:40:41
those codes. Guys do like the little L ambush
00:40:44
or they try to do 1 and you know it doesn't obviously work out
00:40:48
too well for them but I just didn't like how long they try
00:40:52
and build suspense with Ben being OK when I know he's going
00:40:55
to be OK. He's alive in another series
00:40:58
that takes place in the future. Now the greatest part about that
00:41:01
scene and the redeeming quality is the reveal of the Winkler RND
00:41:06
Tomahawk stay. You see a silhouette on
00:41:08
someone's back and you know that shit is getting laid deep and it
00:41:12
is super satisfying. I feel like it redeemed any
00:41:18
misuse of it, not necessarily misuse of it, but maybe disuse I
00:41:22
guess is a better word of its lack of use in the first season.
00:41:26
Now I do like it's use in the first season.
00:41:27
There's a really great scene in the finale where he goes up
00:41:31
against Cowboy. Cerrone is acting as a security
00:41:33
guy and he gets it into the side of his head.
00:41:36
But. He used it in the cartel house
00:41:38
too, didn't he? Didn't.
00:41:39
He yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah. To gut.
00:41:41
He has two at the house. He got the guy in bed I think.
00:41:45
Yeah, he he, he leaves, he leaves one attached to the to
00:41:49
the beam where he makes the guy walk and gut himself right.
00:41:52
So I think 1 gets it's better here he has.
00:41:55
Much better Winkler cameo here, much better, a little drawn out.
00:41:58
So you're right about the suspense because the whole time
00:42:01
while this is happening, I'm like, either his trap is going
00:42:04
to work and he's just going to blow all these guys through some
00:42:06
detonation that he set up because that's the force
00:42:08
multiplier, right? One guy acting like he's 50.
00:42:10
It's like the freaking Patriot, you know, aim, aim small, miss
00:42:13
small. I'm like, there's no other way
00:42:15
he gets out of this. Or I was thinking it could be a
00:42:17
stand down order. So I'm like, maybe these guys
00:42:20
get a stand down order from somebody high up someone.
00:42:23
Iran. I was like, OK, the German
00:42:25
military could come, but I don't know how that would resolve.
00:42:27
That would just escalate things. German intelligence.
00:42:30
And then so I'm like, the only other option is the cavalry
00:42:32
comes and somebody calls in the cavalry.
00:42:34
They gave me so much time with the suspense of like, he can't
00:42:37
win. I know we can't win.
00:42:39
They're visually telling me he's not going to win.
00:42:41
And they played it out so long it let my mind wander to all
00:42:45
these other scenarios. And I concluded, oh, wait, Reese
00:42:48
just has to come. And I think if he came earlier,
00:42:51
I wouldn't have gotten there myself or I wouldn't have played
00:42:53
it over in my head. And if he just came in the
00:42:55
middle of the fight and he just, like, lines up next to Ben
00:42:58
behind the sandbags and they're shooting dudes together and then
00:43:01
Ben gets shot in the fight. I would have liked that a little
00:43:04
more than the whole, like, bleed out Hollywood scene.
00:43:06
I'm going to die. What was me my friends here.
00:43:08
Yeah, Yeah, that's my. Yeah, yeah, I think.
00:43:13
And then the only other thing that I would nitpick is why is a
00:43:16
active SEAL team, all of Bravo Company for some reason
00:43:20
deployed? On our the same time.
00:43:23
To help to help ground branch while they're while they're
00:43:25
actually rotating out of their deployment.
00:43:28
Long live the brotherhood, man. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:30
That's why I mean, all of the stuff in the first season of
00:43:34
Terminal List is like the rule breaking initial, you know,
00:43:38
let's let's just say everybody's used to playing by the book.
00:43:41
And then once, once Reese starts breaking the rules and Ben
00:43:44
starts breaking the rules, this is like new territory for them.
00:43:47
But this is an in my from what I can tell unless I talk to
00:43:50
somebody that says different. This is an enormous rule break
00:43:53
that seems out of the ordinary. But it is awesome and I will
00:43:57
forgive it because it of how good it plays out so.
00:44:00
Yeah, some things you have to forgive.
00:44:01
And Chris Pratt kind of talked about this.
00:44:03
If it's the 8020 where Hollywood is like the other way, 8020,
00:44:07
they'll listen to you 20% of time and like try to make it
00:44:10
realistic with what the actual operators advise and tell them
00:44:12
and then throw it out the window.
00:44:14
They're doing 8024. And so if this is the 20% we've
00:44:17
got to forgive, I'm OK with that.
00:44:19
If the cuts force thing of like too many of these random
00:44:22
operators spawning in in European cities is what I forgot
00:44:24
to forgive just so that there's awesome action, great.
00:44:27
I just think you could have been smarter about that action.
00:44:29
And the villains who go after these guys, think of like born
00:44:32
or something, right? The villains that you're up
00:44:35
against or he's up against in the random streets of Zurich or
00:44:37
wherever they are, I feel like they're smarter villains.
00:44:41
They're not just like, let's spawn 100 dudes and have them
00:44:43
shoot out. Let's not make them
00:44:44
Stormtroopers, right? Like these guys had stormtrooper
00:44:47
syndrome. They're just here in numbers,
00:44:49
they're duds and we just mow them down.
00:44:52
Yes, it's fun. Do it once.
00:44:53
They did it like 3 times and I just had too much stormtrooper
00:44:58
syndrome. I would rather have a smarter
00:45:00
enemy. I would have rather have Iran
00:45:01
being a lot more clandestine, if you will.
00:45:05
Or the battles that Ben has to fight on the streets of Europe
00:45:08
are not just massive shootouts. I wish it was more like when MO
00:45:11
escapes. When MO has to escape the
00:45:14
meeting with the scientist where he gets the bearings, I thought
00:45:18
that was more realistic of how a ground branch op would go.
00:45:22
Like they had three exit routes, they were all compromised.
00:45:25
They had to go through alleyways, someone on comms had
00:45:27
to direct him around the corner. He had to fight a dude in like a
00:45:29
hardware store where he picks up the sledgehammer.
00:45:32
Landry had to come at the right moment with the the X fill and
00:45:34
get in the van. I feel like that's more of what
00:45:36
I expect as an action scene in ACIA thriller and not just let's
00:45:40
spawn a mini paramilitary army in the middle of whatever.
00:45:44
Yeah, yeah, I agree. It is a lot like Skyfall.
00:45:47
What was your, what was your? I have a favorite line of
00:45:50
episode 6. I'd probably have to think about
00:45:51
the finale, but what I I definitely have one that stood
00:45:54
out and it's because it is a reference to something else.
00:45:57
Do you have a favorite line from from Six, which is the the plane
00:46:01
shootout episode in the bearings?
00:46:03
Obviously with the title, they want you to stick with a pawn
00:46:07
can take down a king, But for me it's just a little too on the
00:46:09
nose. Cliche.
00:46:11
I, I, I think I go back to I, I didn't pick any of these out.
00:46:13
So you're putting me on the spot.
00:46:14
But I, I think episode 6, it has to be that conversation I read
00:46:17
before. That's not who we are.
00:46:18
That's not us. And then fog of war brother.
00:46:21
I think that whole conversation just is exactly what I would
00:46:23
say. Well, I'm curious of yours.
00:46:26
So the Rafe stuff is for sure great.
00:46:28
And that's towards the beginning, minus towards the
00:46:30
end. And it's whenever they they
00:46:32
realize the bearings are real and they get back in the truck
00:46:34
and it's before the saw comes out.
00:46:36
But it's Landry, Moe and Ben talking about what the fuck are
00:46:39
we gonna do? And they, I think is that the
00:46:41
point? They get the text that tells
00:46:43
them that Jed's a bad guy. And that's right when Tom sends
00:46:46
them the picture of Jed. OK, so so Moe says say when and
00:46:51
that is a reference to Tombstone with Doc Holiday and it is
00:46:55
awesome. Oh, that's sick.
00:46:58
I wouldn't, I wouldn't have picked up on that.
00:46:59
But yeah, that's a. Cool little line.
00:47:01
Yeah. They they're like basically
00:47:02
trying to think about what they should do.
00:47:04
And MO looks at him and says say when and and so then then they
00:47:07
get out of the car, grab the saw, the plane starting to spin
00:47:10
up and try and get out of there. That was another one of those
00:47:13
tense moments on the tarmac where you could feel, they're
00:47:16
such good actors. You could feel their
00:47:19
frustration. You could feel their anger.
00:47:21
It's like seething through every pore of their body that they got
00:47:25
played and they realize they only have one option, which is
00:47:28
stop the plane, like get the bearings back.
00:47:30
And when they have to come to that realization that the
00:47:33
tension in that car is palpable. I, I love that scene.
00:47:37
That was it. It may be again, it's one of
00:47:39
those that this is slightly more unrealistic or harder to believe
00:47:43
that this bearing exchange would go down this way.
00:47:46
But at the same time, that's the part I'm willing to forgive
00:47:48
because you made such a tense scene and then that shoot out
00:47:50
mowing down the plane was phenomenal.
00:47:53
It was great. Yeah, I'm with you, I think.
00:47:55
Good. I was going to say we we kind of
00:47:57
have to really get to the very end.
00:47:59
I'm curious what you thought of because another conversation you
00:48:02
asked about 1 liners. I bet we can dig into some
00:48:05
brilliant stuff from Jed at the table with Ben in his house when
00:48:10
he's pouring the whiskey. I feel like that.
00:48:12
Conversation it it was a good conversation, but it didn't
00:48:15
stick with me as much as like the Raif conversation does.
00:48:19
So if you have stuff on the Jed conversation, no, not mistimed.
00:48:22
I I love the vibe and I love everything about it.
00:48:25
I don't know it it was I I don't know.
00:48:28
There isn't anything I could say that would like make it better.
00:48:31
It was like well timed. It's a breath of it's a it's a
00:48:34
breather break from action. It's a good conversation, cool
00:48:38
setting. It's like the the guy who you
00:48:42
know, who tried to play the bad ass meets the his creation.
00:48:47
Basically, it's like Frankenstein's monster meeting
00:48:49
Frankenstein, you know, completely.
00:48:52
I, I don't know, it's just like the, the context and the content
00:48:56
of the conversation is what I think wasn't, you know, great,
00:48:59
but go ahead. I think maybe it just came to me
00:49:02
now when it was actually something you said earlier.
00:49:05
I think I actually like the content.
00:49:06
I like the dialogue. I thought it was good, but maybe
00:49:09
it's the context of things across the show were just a
00:49:14
little too easy. That might be my other quibble
00:49:16
is they almost teed things up too much.
00:49:20
It almost dumbed down the audience of like, we're going to
00:49:22
tell you what's going to happen and then when it happens, you're
00:49:24
not that surprised most of the time.
00:49:26
There were a few big twist and I think in this one it was like we
00:49:30
knew Landry took care of Golobev the the money launderer guy.
00:49:33
We know what's his name. MO took care of the other guy so
00:49:39
it's like. Now we know bench.
00:49:41
I love the MO. The MO ones great, but go ahead.
00:49:44
And who did MO kill? I'm just trying to think back to
00:49:45
it. I think it was maybe the other
00:49:47
brother that was involved with Iran.
00:49:51
He was at a soccer game with his kids and I thought he was the
00:49:53
kid that got the motorcycle, so he's at the soccer.
00:49:55
Yeah, it's it was Cyrus. It was Cyrus replicating.
00:49:58
Yeah. Yeah, He's replicating what
00:50:00
Cyrus did to or Jed and Cyrus did to Elisa.
00:50:03
So yeah. Oh, MO MO's facial expressions,
00:50:06
I think he's the best actor in the show, hands down.
00:50:09
His facial expression just threw the motorcycle helmet looking in
00:50:11
the window and the timing of how long he pauses for, it's like
00:50:15
not a full second, but it's not a fly by.
00:50:17
It's like this very crisp, like half second with that stare,
00:50:23
staring like he says dialogue. He says dialogue with his eyes,
00:50:26
with his eyes. How do you like that
00:50:28
motherfucker is? And the other time he gets
00:50:30
delivered 100%. And the other time he did it was
00:50:33
at the checkpoint going into Mosul.
00:50:35
Yeah. He tells an entire story with
00:50:38
his face and it's he's always kind of looking the other way.
00:50:41
It's always like, I'm not one of you, but I am one of you for my
00:50:45
own country. I'm the Iraqi version of you.
00:50:47
I'm the one who's saving my country, putting my ass on the
00:50:50
line the same way you do for the America.
00:50:53
And so he's like looking away like this outsider, kind of like
00:50:55
he has a different perspective, but he is one of them.
00:50:58
So he's one of. Them and he's not one of them at
00:51:00
the same. Time and he plays it perfectly
00:51:02
when he's sitting there in all of the conversations with the
00:51:04
team but yeah, so he killed Cyrus with the with the soccer
00:51:07
at the soccer game. Great kill.
00:51:09
So it just telegraphed to you like oh we have a montage of
00:51:12
everyone getting revenge. Tal handed him the folder on Jed
00:51:15
with the evidence So it's like OK Ben is clearly the one to go
00:51:19
after Jed. So when he's sitting there in
00:51:20
the house, I was like telegraphed.
00:51:23
And then when he doesn't kill Jed, I was like, OK, also kind
00:51:26
of telegraphed because why would they collect all this evidence?
00:51:29
If you collected all the evidence, then you're just going
00:51:31
to off the guy. Why make the case against him?
00:51:33
So I was like, I mean, just to me wrong clear.
00:51:36
Just to clear themselves. Yeah.
00:51:37
I. I'm with you that I felt like
00:51:40
there was no weight or consequence to the conversation.
00:51:43
It was like they already had all the evidence against Jed.
00:51:46
He can't talk his way out of it. The content of the conversation
00:51:49
isn't going to change the result.
00:51:52
And so I was like, oh, they got it wrapped up.
00:51:54
And so like, it's not that I didn't pay attention, but I felt
00:51:56
like it didn't have weight to it.
00:51:57
Whereas like usually in those conversations like that, when
00:52:00
there's a breather like that and those two characters would run
00:52:02
into each other, I feel like it could have been delivered as if
00:52:04
Ben's missing something and he get he is either able to gather
00:52:09
it or he proves after the conversation he has it.
00:52:11
Now they started doing this in film and TV long ago of like,
00:52:15
oh, I recorded this whole conversation.
00:52:17
You just admitted to everything right now.
00:52:19
I'm happy. I'm happy they didn't go that
00:52:20
out. I'm happy they didn't go that
00:52:22
route completely. But the next scene I want to
00:52:25
talk about is so does does I want to say he gets the visit on
00:52:31
his boat next? Yes, that's another.
00:52:35
Thing that I think disappointed me because as good as the
00:52:37
Victoria Rodriguez drop was, I think you could have honestly
00:52:41
cut right to him interviewing in Langley.
00:52:45
Like I think the cut to him pulling up at the gates at the
00:52:49
Bush Intelligence Center in Langley.
00:52:50
Yeah, the final, final cut, that plus his interview or his
00:52:55
polygraph I think would have been enough.
00:52:59
I don't know this. Dash man or dasher character?
00:53:01
I don't know if they're teeing him up to be somebody at ground
00:53:04
branch that Ben will work with in season 2.
00:53:06
Like an off book. I think so because of who That I
00:53:09
think so because of who that actor is the actor Pablo Yeah,
00:53:11
yeah, yeah, yeah. Pablo Schreiber.
00:53:14
Yeah. I don't need that though that I
00:53:16
feel like that's cheap. I feel like if you want him to
00:53:18
be a big part of the next season, put him in episode 1.
00:53:21
Have him do something big in in episode 1 of like let's
00:53:25
establish him as the guy who recruited Ben.
00:53:27
I, I don't think we needed it here and it was already dragging
00:53:30
out too much. The end.
00:53:32
Like when, when they take down Jed and they blow up Cyrus and
00:53:35
they, they kill all the other guys, I'm like, OK, this is the
00:53:37
final montage and then there's one cutscene show's over.
00:53:41
But they did like 3 or 4. Montages and it's like.
00:53:43
You're clearly just doing this to set up something next.
00:53:46
I'd rather you just wrap up the story as the story needs to be
00:53:48
wrapped in my opinion. I agree with you.
00:53:52
But Dash can't be in the first episode.
00:53:53
It has to be Jed that recruits them, because Jed is he.
00:53:57
He's on the other team. This is all deception and Jed is
00:54:00
trying to find scapegoats and that's what Rafe and Ben are.
00:54:05
I think that's he recruits them because they're pipe hitters,
00:54:08
but he can also pin pin stuff on them.
00:54:10
Whereas if Dash does it, he works for Victoria at Ground
00:54:13
Branch. Oh, I mean next season.
00:54:14
Runs a tight ship. Oh yeah.
00:54:16
Yeah, don't put. Dash in this season at all.
00:54:17
Don't make up a. Character in the in the 11th
00:54:20
hour who? When you said first episode to
00:54:22
recruit him, I thought you. Meant the first episode of the
00:54:23
season. Like how Jed Jed had recruited
00:54:25
them in Germany. When Jed recruits him in
00:54:27
Germany. I thought it was perfect and I
00:54:29
think OK. Not to get you us off topic, I
00:54:31
think this entire show hinges on Jed.
00:54:35
If you buy Jed, from the moment he's selling them, he he's
00:54:39
praying on their vulnerabilities, knowing what it
00:54:41
means to them to get kicked out of the teams.
00:54:43
And he's telling them, I can get you back.
00:54:45
I basically can be your saviour and I can get you.
00:54:47
I need shooters. So he's like praying on their
00:54:50
vulnerabilities. And I bought it.
00:54:52
I was like, he's this old timey spy.
00:54:54
He's this legend from Beirut. Yeah, I'm excited for this.
00:54:58
He absolutely offers Ben and Rafe.
00:55:01
What they want, which is to make a difference and to get
00:55:05
basically their their little revenge on someone who they hate
00:55:08
completely, but he's using them, their pawns.
00:55:12
So then next after. That which I.
00:55:15
Don't think. I think that scene drags a
00:55:17
little bit whenever Dash visits him on the boat.
00:55:19
I think the next next scene is truthful, conclusive, or
00:55:22
deception indicated. Perfect.
00:55:24
Is the next scene just cut to that?
00:55:26
That's all I. Needed.
00:55:28
That is the first. That is the.
00:55:30
First moment you really see true emotion come out of Ben Edwards
00:55:35
when he hears that his wife is going to leave him.
00:55:38
You see nothing when you see him finally reading voicemails or
00:55:42
watching videos of his wife on his phone at the Skyfall House.
00:55:46
Not much, but he's reminiscing. This interview polygraph is
00:55:53
absolutely a first emotion you see pop from him, which is great
00:55:57
acting by Taylor Kitsch. And then I think the deception
00:56:02
indicated and truthful conclusive results on the screen
00:56:04
are absolutely book reader straight from nods, even even
00:56:09
though it seems may maybe to non book readers, if you're
00:56:11
listening, it's it may seem as like who who the fuck cares?
00:56:14
It's like a true, true or false, you know, lie detector tests.
00:56:18
And it's it's a little bit more than that.
00:56:19
It has a lot more meaning behind it because eventually in the
00:56:23
books, whenever Reese takes the same to join ground branch, he
00:56:28
those results are how they are described in the book, which
00:56:32
which is is different than, oh, you, you lied or you told the
00:56:35
truth. It's like, I don't know.
00:56:36
It's just something that's very specific to these books.
00:56:38
It's very specific to the book and that.
00:56:41
Scene was filmed as I would have seen Reese going through the
00:56:44
polygraph on page. Like when I read it on page I
00:56:47
was imagining something so similar to that.
00:56:50
That was one of those perfect moments of they balanced the
00:56:53
book, a nod to the readers. They put it on film where it
00:56:57
needed to be in the story and time didn't work.
00:57:00
Dialogue and it worked, but they changed it, right?
00:57:02
It wasn't Reese going through the polygraph.
00:57:04
He's not going into the CIA. I'm I'm pretty sure the
00:57:06
questions are even in the same order.
00:57:08
As they are, you might be right. Yep, there's just so many echoes
00:57:12
to it. That one was done absolutely
00:57:15
purpose, perfectly and tastefully.
00:57:17
Between that and the Victoria Rodriguez is the 1-2 punch at
00:57:20
the end. They don't make sense.
00:57:22
They don't make as much sense or have as much meaning unless
00:57:24
you're a book reader. But they also work in universe.
00:57:27
Because Victoria Rodriguez is going to come up next.
00:57:29
Yeah, yeah, I know. Real quick.
00:57:31
Before we jump to true believer, are you still good on time?
00:57:35
Yeah, sure. I don't know how much we have to
00:57:38
say about true believer. So maybe you know more than me,
00:57:40
but we just do a little conjecture about what we want to
00:57:42
see what's coming. Well, the only thing I was going
00:57:44
to bring up is like you, you had brought.
00:57:46
Up about how after terminal issue you don't see how we get
00:57:49
the true believer, but now we do because we got a in choice of
00:57:51
these characters and you see how this writing is going to work
00:57:54
without the the sections. In my opinion, they got rid of
00:57:57
the unreliable narrator a they had to be they I think they
00:58:00
realize it doesn't work as well as they thought and I think
00:58:03
they're just adapting the books moving forward because I've
00:58:05
heard Chris Pratt actually talk about that recently how they're
00:58:08
the rest the seasons are just going to be book adaptations.
00:58:10
So where I was going with this is I agree with you, but I think
00:58:14
at the time that they did just the first season, that was all
00:58:17
they were guaranteed. And I think they put all their
00:58:19
eggs in one basket. And I think that they we don't
00:58:21
know if we're getting a true believer.
00:58:23
So we're not gonna end this on an absolute cliffhanger.
00:58:25
But he is on the sailboat, which is a a little bit of one that's
00:58:28
true. But I think where you see us
00:58:31
leading this into true believer, they couldn't have done this
00:58:34
with the first season because they didn't, they weren't
00:58:36
equipped with the knowledge that they were going to get renewed.
00:58:38
Absolutely. And you don't like waste time
00:58:41
building story when it could be serving the season we're in.
00:58:44
And so I think that's maybe why I think this came up as a good
00:58:48
way to get to true believer. And I think it was released for
00:58:51
that purpose. A lot of the cast is going to be
00:58:53
in True believer. So something I wanted to talk to
00:58:57
you about. Regarding.
00:58:58
True Believer is not only the we already touched on the 1st 2
00:59:01
episodes are sailing in Africa that they shot on location is
00:59:06
great. I'm curious to see how they
00:59:08
actually changed some things. I have a feeling they're going
00:59:10
to change it because if for folks who didn't read the books,
00:59:13
in the novel, Ukraine and Russia get into a conflict and it was
00:59:17
written before it actually happened, really before the
00:59:19
conflict. And I don't know why, but Jack
00:59:22
decides to do this in every novel.
00:59:25
He writes about something that is like a real life thing that
00:59:28
ends up happening after the book is published.
00:59:30
And so he needs to stop picking ridiculous wars to write about.
00:59:34
But he had written about it. So I'm curious on what they're
00:59:38
going to change that to, what conflict that's going to change
00:59:41
too. But we'll, we'll see how that
00:59:42
goes. But something came up in an
00:59:44
interview that I had never heard before.
00:59:46
And if you are familiar at all with the John Krasinski, Jack
00:59:49
Ryan series, yeah, not not huge, but familiar, yeah.
00:59:53
OK, so it ran Four Seasons. At Amazon Prime and they still
00:59:58
have a good viewership and good fans, but John Krasinski isn't
01:00:02
willing to dedicate seven months of his life every time they want
01:00:05
to film a season. So Amazon announced that they
01:00:07
are filming they're filming it now is a movie that is goes with
01:00:12
the series OK not sure if that's going to end up in theaters or
01:00:16
if it will just go to Amazon prime.
01:00:18
I have heard in a. Interview with Jack for cry
01:00:24
havoc that in the future post true believer that we may get a
01:00:28
get films instead of series but hot taste.
01:00:33
Yeah, I think Savage Son would be an amazing movie.
01:00:36
I think. I think that story would be one
01:00:41
of the best plots for an action film I can imagine and something
01:00:46
you want to see on the big screen.
01:00:48
So I think for two reasons, both plot, story and screen, I'd want
01:00:52
to see that as a movie in a theater.
01:00:54
I think another miss. If I'm going to say a miss of
01:00:57
Season 1 and season 2, it is the timing.
01:01:00
I think 7 episodes did not do Dark Wolf justice.
01:01:04
I think it was strange. It got a little packed.
01:01:07
I really could have used more. And I don't just say that lately
01:01:10
because I I just want more. It's like a lot of fans say that
01:01:14
like give me more, give me more. No, I think the story demanded
01:01:17
more. I think some of the things that
01:01:19
were rushed here or clipped together probably in post
01:01:22
production could have breathed a little more.
01:01:25
The, the way MO disappears for like 3-4 episodes.
01:01:28
Well, bring him back and give him another two or three
01:01:30
episodes. The way Jed, you know, kind of
01:01:33
when the team was split up, right, it became the Ben and
01:01:35
Eliza show. Well, Ben and Eliza had like 2
01:01:38
episodes together on the Lam, if you will, with the bearings.
01:01:41
We'll we'll give Moe and Landry an episode or two or give Jed
01:01:44
another episode of him and Cyrus behind the scenes.
01:01:48
I want to see them meeting like very clandestinely, like how
01:01:51
they're having their meats and any drop boxes and
01:01:53
communications. Tal Tal just shows up somewhere
01:01:56
and like has the goods to eavesdrop on somebody.
01:01:59
I loved when Tal would just like put her head up, her hood up and
01:02:02
then like sneak into an apartment building or across the
01:02:04
street. Like I wouldn't mind a whole a
01:02:07
whole episode dedicated to Tal spycraft.
01:02:09
So I think the show could have breathed more.
01:02:12
So 910 episodes, whatever. I think would have been.
01:02:16
Justified for this and so if you now try out movies, some books
01:02:21
that work better for a movie, do it and then maybe a longer book
01:02:24
like only the Dead or whatever the 4th 1 was, maybe one of
01:02:29
those would work better as a series.
01:02:30
I think there's an opportunity to really play around in
01:02:32
universe and and do some different media.
01:02:35
I agree. I think that.
01:02:37
We'll, we'll see. I think the the Jack Ryan one
01:02:40
would be a good format and like example to see if it works well.
01:02:43
And I think also if it releases on Prime, then so would the
01:02:46
James Reese one release on prime rather than theater.
01:02:48
So we'll see if it gets a theatrical.
01:02:50
I think it's a theatrical release.
01:02:51
I would be stoked about that. And I think you're right that
01:02:53
Savage Sun lends itself very well to first, second, third act
01:02:58
content. Great finale.
01:03:01
It's it flows. It's the fastest read, but at
01:03:04
the time it was the most hefty novel.
01:03:07
So I don't understand how something could be more pages
01:03:09
than the previous books but be a faster read.
01:03:11
And it's because of the the pacing.
01:03:13
If I do still hold that at my. Number one novel.
01:03:16
Not just in the series, but of all time.
01:03:19
So I think it would work well as a movie, but I really think that
01:03:23
it's going to depend on the success of late.
01:03:25
The Jack Ryan one, I think they do play around and try and test
01:03:29
those things out. Because I know that Jack
01:03:32
mentioned and it came up with the same way that basically
01:03:36
Chris Pratt is dedicating seven months of his life to every
01:03:39
season of this show. And it's not that it's getting
01:03:41
stale, but he has a so many other projects that he has to
01:03:44
bounce to. And he's filming this in in
01:03:45
Morocco on location, in Paris on location and stuff.
01:03:48
And so basically he's loving it, but he's trying, they're trying
01:03:51
to find a way to make it more digestible for him to balance.
01:03:54
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:03:55
So I was just curious of your thoughts of that.
01:03:57
It was the first time I'd heard that, thought it was a cool
01:03:59
idea. And it came from Jack on another
01:04:01
interview. So yeah, No, that's cool.
01:04:04
I will say if we're. Talking true believer, just real
01:04:06
quick, I don't mind a change from the Odessa stuff and the
01:04:08
Ukraine stuff. I think that story needs a
01:04:10
little freshening up and moving away from RIP, you know, RIP
01:04:13
straight out of the headlines as you were saying.
01:04:15
But I think what I if it's missing in true believer 1
01:04:20
Freddie strain what he was doing in that.
01:04:21
Cabin. That was rigged or.
01:04:25
Something and then the other one is the.
01:04:26
Sniper I think if you don't take from the Odessa.
01:04:31
Scene the sniper. I'm not.
01:04:32
Going to say too much but something with a ship and a
01:04:34
cargo box and a sniper. If you don't then transpose that
01:04:37
if they are filming in Morocco for Morocco story or Middle
01:04:39
Eastern story you can easily do it off the Med.
01:04:42
If you stick with Israel, Iran, you could do it totally in that
01:04:45
part of the world, wherever they go with this, whatever story
01:04:47
they tell. I think, and I don't remember
01:04:49
his name, but that villain, the sniper villain, and how much
01:04:53
that shot matters in Reese's life, in global politics.
01:04:58
I think you need to have the shot and have that shot matter
01:05:01
so much and have high stakes for everyone involved, personally
01:05:04
and geopolitically. So I think if you got to capture
01:05:07
that, I don't care where you place it.
01:05:08
I don't care what conflict you invent.
01:05:10
I don't care what part of the world it's in.
01:05:12
That was such a phenomenal part of storytelling that Jack was
01:05:16
like lightning in a bottle. Jack captured with that one.
01:05:18
It it made true believer pop. You got to keep that.
01:05:21
So I hope they do they do justice to that.
01:05:24
So that character is a Syrian. Sniper and his name is Nizar
01:05:29
Katan. Nizar Katan.
01:05:31
He's I think that you actually saw him in the blood in Dark, I
01:05:35
think No, I think you saw him in Dark Wolf.
01:05:38
There is a there is a scene where there's a bad guy at a gun
01:05:42
range with a sniper rifle and he's on the phone with another
01:05:46
character and it is the only scene this character has and
01:05:48
they never reveal to you who he is.
01:05:50
I don't believe he's even listed in the credits.
01:05:52
Is that when Cyrus is practicing?
01:05:55
At the shooting range too, That scene, no.
01:05:57
So I think Jed. Haberford is talking with this
01:06:01
guy on the phone and he maybe is supposed to like run the Quds
01:06:04
Force and he's at a he's at a he's at a gun range.
01:06:09
I mean it could be someone else to in next level if that's Nazar
01:06:14
Katan and even if. It's not it's it's such like a
01:06:16
subtle nod to what Nazar Katan becomes as a villain, one of
01:06:21
maybe the top villains in the Jacquard universe, very possibly
01:06:26
so that I think so he spans spans many books.
01:06:29
That the whole point of that book is supposed to be a sniper
01:06:31
versus sniper, cat and mouse globetrotting novel.
01:06:33
And I think it accomplishes that very good.
01:06:35
And that that book's I think that book's pretty good, but
01:06:39
100% agreed. Well, anything else on your?
01:06:41
Mind, we know you are the Jack car boss.
01:06:43
Can I can I just pick your brain for a second on the opening
01:06:45
month? Sure.
01:06:46
What do you think about seeing Ben's humble abode?
01:06:48
I like it because it's the same as the.
01:06:50
Boat that Reese ends up in and going to Africa and I think it's
01:06:54
really awesome. My curiosity lies in are, are
01:06:59
these changes we're seeing throughout?
01:07:00
You know, we're seeing maps change from sailing maps to maps
01:07:04
of Afghanistan. I know you and I had discussed
01:07:06
this in a in another conversation, but I think that
01:07:09
some of that stuff is meant to be OK.
01:07:12
This is him transferring from civilian life to to military
01:07:15
life, right, to being a SEAL. But then in other scenes that
01:07:18
some of the things lead me to believe that it's his transfer
01:07:21
and that boat may may have been like his getaway when he was in
01:07:25
the SEAL teams. And this transfer is him from
01:07:28
SEAL to CIA, because a lot of these things indicate sort of
01:07:33
like a downward turn. And this this him getting his
01:07:37
bird stripped and him having to leave the teams in in disgrace.
01:07:41
Basically, I think are big points of like a the beginning
01:07:44
of a downward spiral. And where we see him at the
01:07:47
beginning of the terminal list is he's he's kind of like the
01:07:51
the multiple wives, multiple divorce guy stereotypical.
01:07:56
And he just lives on his boat. And so I don't know, it's just
01:07:59
probably not important, but just the point of curiosity on my
01:08:02
part, where, when when did this start?
01:08:04
Is this a seal team problem or a or ACIA problem?
01:08:07
Because I think where it is important is like, does this
01:08:10
downward spiral add in to the initial talks of him betraying
01:08:17
James? Yeah, I I think it's a great.
01:08:20
Question I think I'm it doesn't need to be answered.
01:08:22
I think it's just all almost psychological downward spiral at
01:08:26
any time just showing that he's prone to this and you know, the
01:08:30
the clean kitchen being replaced with the bottles, empty bottle
01:08:33
and pills, you know, spilling out.
01:08:34
So yeah, I think, I think anytime in his life, leaving
01:08:38
CIA, leaving, leaving Seals, going CIA or something later
01:08:42
when he sells out around the time of the terminal list, any
01:08:46
one of those work for me as his psychological downfall and
01:08:50
spiral. So yeah, I'm with you.
01:08:53
But that was just my me. Picking that that intro part,
01:08:56
love the song choice. So I actually one of the best
01:09:02
things. I think the first season did a
01:09:04
really good job with music choices.
01:09:06
But this season overall, they did a really big post where each
01:09:10
slide was a different episode in the licensed music that they
01:09:12
had. And I thought they they went
01:09:13
big. I think the music choices this
01:09:15
season were much better than the first season.
01:09:17
I think it was even better. Agreed.
01:09:19
I I think, yeah. I think that was a big
01:09:20
improvement was was on the. Music side.
01:09:22
So overall, I think it is an an improved season, but I
01:09:26
appreciate that first season a bit more now and so I can't say
01:09:31
it's better, but it's it's on par and I think it's a great
01:09:34
series. So that's good to hear that you
01:09:37
went back and. Watched season 1 and.
01:09:39
And how Dark Wolf really makes that bump up a little bit in
01:09:43
your ranking. So it it it absolutely does.
01:09:46
And me just being like the film buff, there's a lot of practical
01:09:50
effects and in camera work and stuff that they do that may be
01:09:53
lost on most viewers, but that I see.
01:09:55
And I'm like, Oh my God, that is awesome.
01:09:57
Like there's a, there's a scene in there where James is having
01:10:01
like a mental breakdown and the camera basically swivels around
01:10:05
him and he's in civilian uniform and it swivels through his
01:10:09
kitchen and into like basically him remembering an
01:10:11
interrogation. And it so then you're in
01:10:13
Afghanistan, right? Or in Syria, I think in the, in
01:10:16
the series. And it, it shows him again, in
01:10:19
full uniform, from civilian clothes to full uniform from the
01:10:22
kitchen to an interrogation overseas.
01:10:25
And Boozer's there. He's in full uniform.
01:10:27
And basically he's, he's remembering this.
01:10:29
That entire scene is all practical.
01:10:33
The camera on the swivel there there is no cut.
01:10:37
Whenever, whenever Chris leaves camera, he is getting up and
01:10:40
changing clothes on the spot and walking into the shot and the
01:10:44
basically the set. I mean, there's just stuff like
01:10:47
that that I enjoy about filmmaking.
01:10:50
That is really cool when they pull it off and it it like it
01:10:53
like, you know, it works because people don't realize what just
01:10:56
happened. Yeah, I notice it, but I'm not,
01:10:59
I'm not saying I'm a I'm an expert by any means, but I like
01:11:01
stuff like that. But like your average viewer
01:11:03
would be like, oh, OK, he's going into like a memory.
01:11:05
But like, do you realize like the amount of work and the
01:11:07
amount of crew that just took to make this like 15 second shot
01:11:10
happens like a shot movie or something.
01:11:12
I remember I had a film. Teacher or a photography teacher
01:11:16
and she broke down this one scene from the village and I was
01:11:18
like and movie was kind of OK I didn't really like it and she
01:11:20
was like no let me show you how they move the cameras to get
01:11:23
this exact like zoom out and pan through the forest and I was
01:11:26
like yeah yo this becomes a different movie once you know
01:11:29
that and once you you have the knowledge of these skills and I
01:11:32
think that happens here as well yeah there's a there's a couple
01:11:35
of things I that I. Know about now that was done
01:11:38
during production that that the Julio thought were good ideas
01:11:41
that I disagree with because it's like he left clues for you,
01:11:46
but you don't know what you're looking for.
01:11:48
It's not a clue. Anyone would find out unless you
01:11:50
know what Djilio knew, which is any, any scenes and memories
01:11:54
with red in them, red clothing or anything like that.
01:11:56
They're false. They're unreliable.
01:11:58
Yeah, yeah. And and it's like a little.
01:12:01
Too mad or a little too subliminal?
01:12:04
Now that I watch it it's OK but it like.
01:12:06
I I don't know, it's I like when clues are left on purpose for
01:12:09
people to pick up and that one is a little too like a bridge
01:12:13
too far for an average viewer to grab.
01:12:17
Which is funny because this show almost does the opposite.
01:12:19
And telegraphs everything to the viewer a little too upfront.
01:12:22
So we need kind of a balance. Yeah, I think it shows a little
01:12:25
too easy. Yeah, I think it's predictable,
01:12:27
but in. In a way that isn't like over
01:12:30
overboard and then and then that does allow them to land a few.
01:12:34
Twists that are out of the blue, that hit harder because
01:12:36
everything else. Sometimes there's too many
01:12:39
twists, like I said earlier, too many mystery boxes, too many of
01:12:42
those things that you can't quite figure out or keep up
01:12:44
with. I didn't see it, but like a
01:12:45
tenant, it's almost too smart for its own good.
01:12:49
So I I think they balanced it better in this season and could
01:12:53
still get a little better. Even a true believer.
01:12:54
So only watch tenant if you're willing to watch an hour
01:12:57
breakdown video from the Rockstars on YouTube, which I
01:13:00
usually do for almost everything I consume.
01:13:02
So well, dude, it's been a lot of fun.
01:13:06
We know when we get Tyler Booer on the show, we are going deep.
01:13:09
So guys, we took you deep into episode 6 and seven of The
01:13:13
Terminalist. What a finale.
01:13:16
I am very pleasantly pleased and I'm not going to ask you to give
01:13:18
a number a letter grade, but I am landing at an A minus.
01:13:22
I'm I've I'm totally blown. Away I'm really.
01:13:26
Impressed. I was nervous after the first
01:13:28
season. I was like, if this is kind of
01:13:30
similar to the first season, I don't know if it's going to
01:13:32
bring people to the books. I don't know if it's going to
01:13:35
get the numbers on Amazon. I don't know if you're going to
01:13:37
draw readers back in or draw viewers back in.
01:13:40
I was pleasantly surprised that I think it's going to do all of
01:13:42
that plus more. So shout out to Jack, Jared
01:13:46
Shaw, David Djagilio, Chris Pratt, Taylor Kitsch, like the
01:13:49
the whole crew. Shout out to all of them.
01:13:51
Fantastic job with this and thank you.
01:13:54
Thank you for making this for us fans.
01:13:56
I I I think I'm there A a -, I. Think or or BB plus at the very
01:14:01
at the very least, like if I had to be a little more critical of
01:14:03
things, but I think you really saw a resurgence of the first
01:14:08
season. It made it up to #4 in the top
01:14:10
10. So it was actually in the top
01:14:11
five for for a week or two. And then this was at #1
01:14:15
consistently upon release like this released on Wednesdays.
01:14:18
So by Sunday it wasn't at #1 but the next Wednesday it's back to
01:14:22
number 1. So consistently for weeks, this
01:14:23
hit #1 which is great. And then the fact that there was
01:14:26
a huge resurgence for the first season is awesome.
01:14:29
And I know I had told you and if if the listeners pay attention,
01:14:33
the 4th of July this year, so just a few months ago for I
01:14:37
don't know what what made it happen, but I think the first
01:14:40
season made it back into the top ten, if not top five.
01:14:43
I think it maybe it was like #3 for, for the day or something
01:14:46
like that, which is, which is unique that a lot of fans
01:14:49
thought on, hey, it's 4th of July.
01:14:50
Let's check out Terminal List again and revisit it.
01:14:53
And yeah, so I think that was great.
01:14:57
I think this is just going. To continue to bring people to
01:14:59
the books. Bring people to the universe and
01:15:01
this is the catalyst the universe needed to really hit
01:15:04
next level. And like I said, maybe one day
01:15:05
make movies. So that would be a great end
01:15:07
goal if we can get there. Let's let's get the savage son
01:15:10
at the very least, like if Amazon can use green light that
01:15:13
good, you know, that's when you know you're rolling.
01:15:16
And I think once that happens, then it's an open canvas to do
01:15:18
whatever you want after that. They they can't say it, but
01:15:21
they've they've done. Everything but say it is that
01:15:24
we're getting more so more of that and more dark will see how
01:15:27
it goes. Keep it coming.
01:15:29
Injected into my veins. Well, thanks, Tyler.
01:15:32
Always great chatting with you. Too bad we couldn't have Chris,
01:15:34
but next time you're on, we'll definitely see if we can get
01:15:36
Chris involved and get the crew together.
01:15:38
So thanks for coming. Sounds good.
01:15:40
No problem. Thank you.