"Fog of war, brother." Mike and Tyler discuss the finale episodes 6+7 of The Terminal List: Dark Wolf. SPOILER WARNING: We are the thriller deep-dive after show!
They discuss the finale's emotional depth, highlight cameos and Easter eggs, and share their excitement for the future of the series. The conversation also includes critiques of realism in action sequences and character motivations, ultimately reflecting a deep appreciation for the storytelling and character development in Dark Wolf. The hosts also reflect on the cinematic techniques used in the series and share their overall impressions, highlighting the improvements made in the second season and the excitement for future adaptations.
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CHAPTERS
01:42 Overall Impressions of Dark Wolf
05:43 Character Development and Relationships
08:52 Themes of Brotherhood and Trust
11:46 Action Sequences and Realism
17:43 Cameos and Easter Eggs
20:50 Future of the Series and Character Arcs
23:49 Quibbles and Critiques
26:41 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
41:22 Suspense and Strategy in Action Scenes
46:24 Memorable Lines and References
48:10 Tension and Emotional Moments
55:27 Setting Up Future Storylines
01:03:06 The Future of the Series
01:07:14 Cinematic Techniques and Storytelling
01:10:15 Overall Impressions and Future Prospects
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KEYWORDS:
Dark Wolf, Terminal List, Jack Carr, thriller podcast, character development, action sequences, brotherhood, trust, Amazon series, finale discussion, Terminal List, action scenes, character dynamics, memorable lines, emotional moments, character development, future storylines, adaptations, cinematic techniques, series impressions
#NoLimitsPodcast #ThrillerPodcast #ThrillerPod #SpyThrillers
00:00:17
Hey guys, I'm Mike and welcome back to No Limits, the Thriller
00:00:22
Podcast. Even though we don't have Chris
00:00:25
with us tonight, we have another special guest I will introduce
00:00:28
in just a minute. But this episode is brought to
00:00:31
you by our patrons in the Thriller Pod Book Club.
00:00:34
They make this episode and all our episodes possible.
00:00:37
So if you want to find out more about how to join this exclusive
00:00:40
group of thriller fans, we're always talking content, always
00:00:43
talking books. The group chat never stops.
00:00:46
Just go to thrillerpod.com and click on the book club tab.
00:00:50
We could definitely use you. We'd love to see in the group
00:00:52
chat if you're enjoying the podcast.
00:00:54
But let me cut to the chase. Introduce our special guest, a
00:00:57
friend of the pod, a good friend in general.
00:01:00
I feel like he's been my life coach lately.
00:01:02
Welcome back, Tyler Booer. What's going on, Mike?
00:01:06
Listeners, how's everybody doing?
00:01:08
Hope you're having a good day. We've had over the last few
00:01:11
weeks and months, just a couple of good old chats, just give
00:01:14
each other a call, shoot the shit, catch up on life.
00:01:17
And I feel like I've taken some of the advice you've given me
00:01:19
about some things to heart, so I appreciate you.
00:01:22
Thank. You, well, I hope it, I hope it
00:01:24
does what it's intended to do and helps out and makes things a
00:01:28
little bit easier to digest for you.
00:01:30
And I think what was that? It was last November.
00:01:33
I was down your way around the time of my birthday in November
00:01:36
and we were able to grab dinner, which was awesome meeting in
00:01:38
person. I think this might be our first
00:01:40
podcast since then, so. I think you're right.
00:01:43
I think you're right. Many phone, many phone call,
00:01:45
many chats, but first podcast and our first opportunity to
00:01:49
really dig into Dark Wolf. You and I texted about it a
00:01:52
little bit throughout the season, but I don't really know
00:01:54
your full thoughts on it. And now that today we are
00:01:57
covering Episode 6 and 7, for anybody who doesn't know
00:02:00
Thriller Pod, we are the after show.
00:02:02
So we are spoiling episode 6 and seven.
00:02:05
We are getting into the finale. And so I'm kind of curious.
00:02:09
Chris and I have wavered between some episodes.
00:02:12
We gave an A minus. We dip down to AB plus at times.
00:02:15
I think Chris was a little higher when we talked episodes
00:02:18
4:00 and 5:00, and I think I'm still hovering that a minus
00:02:21
range. So I'm real curious to hear just
00:02:23
over all your thoughts on the show.
00:02:24
What was it like getting into Episode 1?
00:02:26
And then what was it like reaching this finale with
00:02:28
Episode 7? For me, I rewatched the original
00:02:33
show season 1 and I'm always, I'm not always listening to
00:02:37
different audio books and stuff, but I'm at least like listening
00:02:40
to some, you know, podcast or interview that Jack's doing.
00:02:42
So I'm trying to stay in the in the hemisphere of what he has
00:02:46
going on. And in my opinion, I think re
00:02:49
watching the original season helped it.
00:02:53
It helped a little bit better to like refresh your memory on
00:02:56
things. I know you and I both have some
00:02:58
mixed feelings on that first season of the original show.
00:03:00
I think that they ditched some stuff that didn't work for that
00:03:04
afterwards that once they realize, hey, this like probably
00:03:07
isn't a long term thing, we should continue.
00:03:09
You know, they kind of ditched things.
00:03:10
So I think maybe they learned a couple of lessons in that first
00:03:12
season. And I, I think that this one,
00:03:15
while I think I grew to appreciate that first season a
00:03:18
little bit more, not that I disliked it or hated it.
00:03:21
I was being very nitpicky about it.
00:03:22
I mean, everybody does that. Anybody that likes Harry Potter
00:03:25
books nitpicks the movies. Anybody that likes Game of
00:03:27
Thrones books nitpicks the show. So everybody that likes the,
00:03:31
the, the, the source material usually nitpicks that type of
00:03:35
thing. And so of course that's what us
00:03:37
as fans are going to do as well. So I think re watching it helped
00:03:42
me appreciate that first season a bit more.
00:03:44
I think if I hadn't watched it, I think I would think this is
00:03:47
probably better in in general. I think if you guys are dipping
00:03:52
down to AB plus on maybe some of the weaker points of this
00:03:56
season, I think it still means that it's a great product for
00:04:00
only cranking out seven episodes.
00:04:02
I think they do a lot for 57 minute episodes and I think in
00:04:06
general my opinions watching them that they got better with
00:04:11
each episode. I think the writing got
00:04:12
smoother. This felt a lot more like a Jack
00:04:16
Carr ran story rather than maybe like the the unreliable narrator
00:04:22
type story that we kind of got given in the in the first
00:04:25
season. I think this is definitely more
00:04:27
that globetrotting espionage that we were promised that was
00:04:31
like the biggest descriptor that we were given going into this
00:04:34
and that it's not like a a, you know, mental thriller.
00:04:38
It's more of like a globetrotting espionage tale.
00:04:41
And it definitely is. I feel like there's some twists
00:04:44
that aren't that, that maybe don't deliver as well because
00:04:48
you can kind of see them see them coming.
00:04:49
But they do that on purpose. I mean, they give you the the
00:04:52
tools to, to see what's what's about to happen.
00:04:55
So where I think you can see it coming.
00:04:58
I don't think it's like overly predictable.
00:05:01
I really like the amount that they used Chris Pratt and Bravo
00:05:04
in it, you know, the first, what, one or two episodes and
00:05:07
then and then the finale, which we'll get to.
00:05:09
So I, I in general, I thought it was very well done and a really
00:05:14
good first of possibly many seasons.
00:05:17
You know, we don't end up with maybe the scene that I wanted
00:05:20
the most, which is Ben being sold the plot line to betray his
00:05:25
brothers. Yeah.
00:05:26
And we don't see that. So the fact that we're missing
00:05:28
that pivotal moment of how he gets bought in or how he buys
00:05:32
into this, this conspiracy is missing.
00:05:37
So I'm curious to see us eventually get to that.
00:05:40
And I think that they did all the right things.
00:05:43
And I know in the past, Mike, you and I have talked about
00:05:46
maybe the the not so successful launch of the first season, but
00:05:52
I know that that they haven't really the Amazon try doesn't
00:05:55
really disclose numbers, but you can usually tell the success of
00:05:58
something based on the the speed of like a renewal.
00:06:01
I think terminalists renewals of this and true believer was a
00:06:05
little slow, whereas like something like Reacher, I think
00:06:10
the first season maybe dropped the pilot episode and they
00:06:12
renewed it for two more. So that obviously had a huge
00:06:15
yeah. And so they're they're hitting
00:06:16
like a target demographic. I've been listening to a lot of
00:06:19
Jack's interviews he's been doing on this PR run for Cry
00:06:22
Havoc and he's actually like lifted the curtain the smidge on
00:06:26
on kind of how how some behind the scenes stuff goes.
00:06:29
And he said that they he doesn't know what the numbers are, but
00:06:31
they were clearly good. And they're hitting an audience
00:06:33
that Amazon has a hard time reaching.
00:06:36
And so he's come up with a couple of cool terms that I
00:06:40
think we'll hear on, you know, here in the future episode
00:06:44
maybe. But I'm interested to see what
00:06:47
what all he has to say in that department.
00:06:48
But back to episode 7. What did you think going from
00:06:52
six into, I'm sorry, 55 into six?
00:06:55
My mistake. What do you think?
00:06:57
Yeah, no, I I thought they really landed the plane.
00:07:00
So overall, you know, once we get to the finale, I feel like
00:07:03
they stuck the landing on some stuff.
00:07:06
They really need to inform the reader and form the list of the
00:07:09
watcher because there's a lot of mystery box and some shows lose
00:07:13
me when there's too much mystery box.
00:07:16
You know, you're just constantly wondering who's on which side,
00:07:18
who's good, who's bad. A little a light touch of that
00:07:20
is nice. We almost flirted with too much
00:07:23
of that. And then by the time we knew Jed
00:07:26
was in bed with Cyrus and we knew those two were plotting and
00:07:30
the guy we thought was the Shepherd, Vaheed, was not the
00:07:32
real shepherd. I thought that plane landed.
00:07:34
So, like, what could have become a nuke on the loose story that
00:07:37
just why are these guys having to chase down nukes and stop
00:07:41
World War 3 or whatever it is? Or, you know, yeah, I'm glad it
00:07:44
didn't become that. And it became instead a more
00:07:47
personal journey of Ben and Rafe and their relationship and the
00:07:50
Iran stuff, to be honest, to me, was a a sideshow in a good way.
00:07:54
It, it didn't need me to be bought in and gripped on.
00:07:57
Who's got the bearings? Is Iran going to make a nuke?
00:07:59
I was actually concerned. Who's lying to Ben?
00:08:02
Who fucked over Rafe? Is Rafe going to get them?
00:08:04
You know, that's what I really wanted to know.
00:08:06
And I think they really stuck the landing on how it drove
00:08:09
those two apart, you know, Blood Brothers and that conversation
00:08:12
on the boat. Holy shit.
00:08:14
I think that's in episode 6 when Rafe splits.
00:08:17
Yeah, I want to. Revisit that from the beginning.
00:08:19
Yeah, I mean, that I think just encapsulates the most important
00:08:25
parts of this show is the personal journey of Ben and
00:08:28
Rafe, their relationship to go from Long live the Brotherhood,
00:08:33
unbreakable bonds be forced into the shitty situation where they
00:08:37
lie for each other, they cover for each other.
00:08:39
Unfortunately, they have to take the hit for it, and then they
00:08:42
still have to still go through that.
00:08:44
You know, they're still iron sharpens iron, right?
00:08:47
They're still going through the forge of of the CIA stuff.
00:08:50
They're clearly different people and they're testing the, you
00:08:53
know, the bonds of that brotherhood.
00:08:55
And it's put to the ultimate test when they each have to be
00:08:59
who they are. And it leads to this
00:09:01
conversation. I mean, just listen to this
00:09:03
writing. This is not only amazing stuff
00:09:06
if it were in a Jack Carr book, this is amazing dialogue.
00:09:09
If it's in any movie, any thriller, any book, it's just
00:09:12
phenomenal writing, period. When Rafe says on the boat,
00:09:17
that's not who we are, That's not us.
00:09:20
Fog of war, brother, isn't it? Two sides trying to do what's
00:09:23
right? It's shitty, but it happens.
00:09:26
You know, I'd never thought I'd see this day.
00:09:28
The great Rafe Hastings afraid to finish the fight.
00:09:32
I'm going to let that one go. I was like, oh shit, he's going
00:09:36
to throw down with Rafe. And it could have became this
00:09:39
very cliche. They just brawl it out right
00:09:41
there. They're tussling around, rolling
00:09:42
around on the boat. And I was like, no, because
00:09:45
Ray's character is the bigger man.
00:09:47
And Ray? Yeah, I think, yeah, I think
00:09:49
whenever you have that Brawl Out moment and stuff like that, it
00:09:52
they kind of get their aggression out and almost break
00:09:55
even in ways in those moments. And I think this being a verbal
00:09:59
exchange digs a little twist. It twists the knife a little
00:10:02
deeper, a little deeper than a than a brawl would have been.
00:10:05
And so I think, you know, you get to see why Ben is so
00:10:09
untrusting of Rafe in the first season of the terminalist, which
00:10:12
is just a little peek that we got from a note, which was the
00:10:16
the insertion boat, I believe, to get to the island for the
00:10:21
finale in the first season, terminalist and Rafe left a note
00:10:25
basically saying that we're now we're even.
00:10:26
And I think Ben makes a comment. So basically saying, I can't
00:10:29
believe you trust that motherfucker.
00:10:31
And from there, I think you kind of just know that Ben distrusts
00:10:36
him. And I I thought at the time it
00:10:38
was because maybe the two of them were fighting over the the
00:10:40
best friend spot for James Reese, for James.
00:10:43
But now, now you can kind of see it more as like, almost like,
00:10:48
for lack of a better term, like a like a a bro, a bromance, like
00:10:52
love triangle of dudes that are all, you know, similar history.
00:10:55
They all got in the teams together around the same time.
00:10:58
In the books, Rafe beats James into the teams by a year.
00:11:01
I don't know Ben's necessarily his detailed situation, but
00:11:06
they're all close to the same rank.
00:11:08
They're all on Bravo Team, But it seems like more like Reese
00:11:12
and Ben are equals. I want to say they were both LTS
00:11:17
or Lieutenant commanders, but I I want to say it was definitely
00:11:20
Reese as a Lieutenant Commander because that is his role.
00:11:23
But this is supposed to be a few years prior to terminalists.
00:11:26
So I don't know what his rank and promotion, you know, status
00:11:30
is like, But I know that obviously Rafe is is, I think
00:11:35
it's, you know, maybe he's just the Lieutenant or just just
00:11:38
under Ben. But you're you're right, they
00:11:40
don't reduce it to that petty Mean Girls teen drama, you know,
00:11:46
in the teams, who's my best friend?
00:11:48
Does Reese like me more to does Reese like me more?
00:11:51
Because you could in some sense read a line like that from the
00:11:54
Terminalist season 1. You could read that into it.
00:11:57
And I think what this show is doing is saying that's not it at
00:12:00
all. It's these two dudes in the
00:12:02
fight with totally different world views, and I bet that's
00:12:06
real. Our operators on the front
00:12:07
lines, well, they have a lot in common, you know, politically,
00:12:10
socially, whatever, humorously, whatever they joke about.
00:12:13
Some of them might come from very different world views and
00:12:15
very different backgrounds, but most probably do not cut from
00:12:18
the same cloth, but just a psychological profile.
00:12:20
They're all going to be very different.
00:12:22
And So what does it mean to throw these dudes in and have
00:12:25
them work through that? Well, I think in the teams you
00:12:28
bond either way, but in the CIA you take advantage of that, even
00:12:32
if they're your brother. Like that's the difference
00:12:35
between ultimately Ben and the ground branch stuff.
00:12:38
They hint at the end. But anybody who's in the CIA,
00:12:40
like a Jed, plays the game at a different level where human
00:12:45
relationships don't mean what they meet, what they meant in
00:12:48
the teams. So I think Jed encapsulates that
00:12:51
and I think Ben has to come to terms and realize in Episode 7
00:12:55
at the end, he essentially is Jed.
00:12:57
He is that. Guy he's he's like Jed Junior,
00:13:00
but you know, I think he is going to become what he hates
00:13:04
where he I mean, obviously he he turns heel at some point, But
00:13:08
something else I thought was interesting is, you know,
00:13:11
whenever they switch over to CIA, you know, I think it's Rafe
00:13:14
says you got to find the brakes brother.
00:13:16
And he he eventually says fuck the brakes.
00:13:18
Fuck the brakes. Which is such a great line.
00:13:22
There's a couple that's a couple of good.
00:13:23
Lines, yes, that's when they're getting.
00:13:25
They're all in the same terrace. It's not when they're doing
00:13:27
Jed's bidding about bearings and shooting German Intel officers
00:13:31
and randomly killing people and having these OPS in nightclubs
00:13:34
that people are getting threatened.
00:13:36
Like, that's when Rafe is like, OK, I got to go back to my
00:13:39
upbringing of there are morals, there is kind of good and bad
00:13:43
and evil. And yeah, this guy Jed is
00:13:44
getting us to blur it exactly. Rafe's the breaking points.
00:13:48
Yeah, for with terrorists, but with terrorists too, either of
00:13:51
them if they're killing bad guys.
00:13:53
But the Rafe is like, this is not killing bad guys anymore.
00:13:55
Well, yeah, he's he's torturing friendlies.
00:13:57
Was his breaking. Exactly, exactly.
00:13:59
Which was an awesome scene. I was happy that they that they
00:14:02
put that in there. It really felt more like a car
00:14:04
story with a torture scene in there.
00:14:06
I know people who aren't familiar with the material.
00:14:08
There's a torture scene in every book.
00:14:10
If not too, yes, usually not with Rafe.
00:14:13
So that was an interesting choice.
00:14:14
No, Yeah, usually it's not with Rafe.
00:14:17
But man, I just I I can't wait to see Tom Hopper more my I'm
00:14:21
I'm very curious to see how how they they've mold true believer.
00:14:26
But we can get to that another time.
00:14:28
I think, you know, going another another point I'd like to make
00:14:32
real quick before we move on from Ben versus Rafe and their
00:14:36
their decaying relationship is, you know, Reese comes and
00:14:40
eventually saves the day with Bravo for Ben.
00:14:43
And so he may be like, hey, my, my brother came for me.
00:14:46
This is who I'm going to trust. And that's probably why he gives
00:14:49
gives up so much of his time and tries to help him in the regular
00:14:53
first season. But what he doesn't realize is
00:14:56
that Rafe was there too. Rafe was there on the tarmac at
00:14:59
the at the airport and he was going to help him, but just
00:15:03
didn't have to. And I think that's the end of
00:15:05
episode 6, right? Yeah, that.
00:15:08
So the end of episode 6 is the amazing attack on the private.
00:15:13
Jet so and the the suspense with the bearings being tested in the
00:15:20
hangar, that was the pinnacle of suspense for the show for me.
00:15:23
I and I didn't even care about the bearings too much, but I
00:15:26
cared. Like what the hell is Ben going
00:15:29
to do when these bearings pass the test?
00:15:32
Yeah, I thought it was a good reveal where you're expecting
00:15:36
these bearings not to be up to snuff and basically, OK, the
00:15:39
three of them are down, but they're, they're going to be
00:15:41
fucked here in a second. And then it passes the test.
00:15:44
And you can almost see Ben. That's when Ben, like, speaks
00:15:47
English for the first time to those bad guys.
00:15:49
Yeah. And it was more of a like oh
00:15:51
fuck, is what he wanted to say. And hold on, that scene is a
00:15:56
major, major connection point to something.
00:15:59
And we got to give a shout out to one of our Facebook
00:16:01
followers, Paul Knowles. Paul Knowles on the Thriller Pod
00:16:04
Facebook page, man, we have the best listeners in the world.
00:16:07
This dude found something and he said the Iranian official who
00:16:12
gets the bearings, I think he's the minister, right?
00:16:14
Cyrus's or Kirush's boss. He says to him on the way out
00:16:19
the price wasn't high enough and he like temps Ben of like you're
00:16:23
selling out your country for whatever it was, 5 million or
00:16:26
whoever knows. And he's just like, the price is
00:16:29
not high enough for you selling out your country.
00:16:31
And in the terminal list, I think it's James.
00:16:35
It might be in the KD scene at the end with the debt cord.
00:16:38
James is like, how much did they pay you or like what was the
00:16:40
price you paid? And Ben was like, the price was
00:16:43
high enough. And I feel like this idea of Ben
00:16:47
basically selling his soul and this Iranian guy mocking him is
00:16:52
just going to have him descend into further madness and chaos.
00:16:55
Yet at the same time, he thinks he belongs in that world.
00:16:59
When he says in the lie detector test when he's interviewing for
00:17:02
CIA. Which dude?
00:17:04
What a treat for the fans, the readers of the books.
00:17:08
But yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that.
00:17:10
Yeah, but but I mean, it just goes to show he's like, why?
00:17:14
Why do you want to work in Ground Branch?
00:17:16
He's like, I belong here. So every Ben getting played by
00:17:20
Jed, that comment from the Iranian guy is all showing Ben's
00:17:24
descent into madness that's going to psychologically mess
00:17:27
with him, which is shown in the opening montage of him on the
00:17:30
boat with the light and the dark in the music credits with Simple
00:17:34
Man. And all of that comes to a head
00:17:37
with this comment from Terminalist Season 1 when Reese
00:17:39
is like, what was the price? And he's like, it was high
00:17:41
enough. Yeah, I am.
00:17:44
While you were talking, I was looking up some different
00:17:49
firearms and stuff because now we're talking about the tarmac
00:17:51
is. I just wanted to confirm that
00:17:54
the gun that that Ben uses, he pulls it out of the trunk.
00:17:57
It's the M249 saw that he. I was wondering if that was a
00:18:00
saw, cause yeah, that thing goes to town.
00:18:03
Yeah, he yeah, it looks like he has a 200 round drum on it, but
00:18:08
yeah, he he just absolutely Swiss cheese.
00:18:11
Is that fucking PJ? The opens up.
00:18:14
Yeah, it's pretty cool. Something else I came across
00:18:16
real quick that caught my attention is, is that Jed
00:18:19
Hapford, when he uses his silence pistol, it is a black
00:18:23
Walter PPK, which I think we can get into a little bit of.
00:18:26
How does the book writing and the show writing either conflict
00:18:31
or mesh and mold? You know, you never really saw
00:18:34
much shotgun action in the books until James finds his dad's in
00:18:38
the trunk of the Wagoneer. And then around the same time he
00:18:42
would have been writing the show.
00:18:43
And Ben's famous, you know, the Mexican cartel base shootout.
00:18:47
He has the, the, the Beretta 1301 shotgun.
00:18:52
So I think maybe you know, shotgun in the book and then,
00:18:54
OK, let's bring a shotgun in the show.
00:18:55
But here we're having a Walther PPK, which you know, is shortly
00:18:59
after. And they would have been writing
00:19:00
this around the same time that he did Red sky Morning, which
00:19:04
was his seventh book, which is like the homage to James Bond
00:19:08
double O 7. And there's a Walther PPK used
00:19:11
in that, which is just a cool detail.
00:19:13
I just the skimming, I was looking for the saw.
00:19:15
I wanted to confirm that it was the M249 SAW but I stopped and I
00:19:18
saw the the PPK and I was like oh that's sick.
00:19:21
Let's be honest, the best weapon though, and the best cameo is
00:19:25
the tomahawk when Reese shows up.
00:19:27
When Reese shows up at Skyfall, which I'm I'm calling that scene
00:19:31
Skyfall because there were two things I was totally thinking at
00:19:35
the final shootout in the Black Forest 1 was Skyfall.
00:19:38
And two is this book Fade by Kyle Mills?
00:19:41
He wrote a really famous scene in that book of this character
00:19:44
Fade, who psychologically is a lot like Ben.
00:19:47
He's got a not so happy history with his military career and
00:19:51
experience. And he does the exact thing in
00:19:55
the house when he kind of like is going window to window.
00:19:58
And then when he jumps into that like cocoon and rolls into the
00:20:00
basement and has things rigged in the basement, he basically
00:20:03
blows up a whole assault team coming at him.
00:20:05
So I, it just felt like I was waiting for the the helicopter
00:20:08
to come and go around this house and just shoot out windows like
00:20:10
and then. Like MMM to be in this church
00:20:13
with. Javier Bardem's there for some
00:20:15
reason. Exactly, I I was just expecting
00:20:19
that but instead it's James Reese with the tomahawk pops up
00:20:23
and the whole crew. It's not just him, it's Boozer.
00:20:24
Boozer makes a great entrance in that barn when Reese's didn't
00:20:27
care. I think out of like the Bravo,
00:20:29
the Bravo team we see, I think we give a few more character
00:20:32
names that aren't in the other show.
00:20:34
I don't believe they're in the book.
00:20:35
But the only other one is like Donnie Mitchell, which is played
00:20:37
by Patrick Schwarzenegger. And the first season wasn't
00:20:40
there, but he is supposed to be a newer guy.
00:20:42
I think in that first season on the on the team.
00:20:45
So he was the only face missing that is on that like OG team but
00:20:50
booze I. Was wondering about that list of
00:20:51
names. Yeah, when he lists off all the
00:20:53
guys that came with him and Boozer, I was like, is that all
00:20:55
the exact same team that we've seen either in other seasons or
00:20:58
in the books? You know, the only other time
00:21:00
they really list off a team of guys is in Savage Sun when they
00:21:03
go to drop into the island. He has a has a team of dudes
00:21:07
with him. That is really the only time I
00:21:10
can think that reminded me of this finale.
00:21:13
But if we I want to get to the finale and then we'll get into
00:21:16
some, some our, our theories and stuff.
00:21:19
But first, if we so we the last big thing we talked about was
00:21:22
the plane attack, which I thought was great.
00:21:24
Most savage part of that episode is Ben cutting the dudes wrist
00:21:27
off to get the the briefcase back was fantastic.
00:21:30
And so Jack hard to have. That Amazon's willing to show
00:21:33
that shit is awesome and a good sign that they realize that the
00:21:37
savagery needs to be there and that's part of the vibe.
00:21:40
Well, that's what Jack's been talking about on some
00:21:42
interviews. Who is the demographic?
00:21:45
And it's like, Rosie, my wife, even she watched this with me.
00:21:48
She's like, yeah, this is just made for you.
00:21:50
Like this is this is made for men.
00:21:51
This is just made for men. Their 30s, forties, 50s, Like,
00:21:54
yeah, it's not my thing. And I was like, you know what?
00:21:57
Almost little to no shows that I could say that for.
00:22:00
So usually I'd be like, oh, I wish we could have watched them
00:22:02
together. I wish you liked it.
00:22:03
I'm like, no, fuck that. Like we don't have any shows
00:22:06
that do this shit. Like if I am watching some cool
00:22:09
show with an operator, it's so unbelievable because it's
00:22:11
Hollywood eyes and it, and then they'll have some, I don't know,
00:22:14
they'll bring up some political point or whatever just because
00:22:17
the producers forced them to. And I'm like, you know what, Can
00:22:19
you just make a God damn good show that tells a story, tells a
00:22:23
story in universe without any external forces, political
00:22:26
nonsense. And I feel like I'm OK if the
00:22:29
show is just designed for a certain demographic.
00:22:31
And like you said before, Amazon likes it too because Jack has
00:22:35
said multiple times Amazon in the at the negotiating table was
00:22:39
pretty confident in the numbers, very happy about the numbers.
00:22:42
Wouldn't say what it is, but it's like they came to us with
00:22:44
some excitement that they were pulling in this demographic.
00:22:47
So I think power to you. And if, if this show is not
00:22:51
pulling in bigger numbers than the first Terminalist season, I
00:22:54
would be shocked. I think the show, it's already
00:22:56
number one on Amazon on streaming.
00:22:58
I think it's going to blow Terminalist Season 1 out of the
00:23:02
water and it's going to bring a lot of people to Terminalist
00:23:04
Season 1. And I think this season, more
00:23:07
than the other one, makes people Terminalist fans for life.
00:23:11
The first season, you may not be interested in coming back to it.
00:23:14
You may not pick up the books, You may not want a Season 2.
00:23:17
You watch this one first. Fuck, you're all in.
00:23:20
You want Season 2? You want Season 3.
00:23:22
I I agree 100%. I think that it was a really
00:23:25
good move to to put the the colon and then have like a
00:23:28
subtitle for this rather than making this like a a second
00:23:31
episode. Now I do like that this has that
00:23:34
beginning scene that takes place towards I think episode 2 of
00:23:37
terminal lists or actually it's like maybe halfway through
00:23:40
episode 1. Anyways, to kind of flash you
00:23:43
back into what's happening with Dark Wolf with with Ben at the
00:23:47
helm of narrating and everything.
00:23:49
There's a couple other things we need to touch on before we get
00:23:51
to finale and and theories and then and then true believer
00:23:54
stuff, which is I really loved Ben Taylor Taylor Kitsch's
00:23:59
reading of his note. His narration was unbelievable.
00:24:03
I thought it was great, those monologues that they nailed.
00:24:06
I read 1 before. It wasn't a monologue, it was
00:24:08
the dialogue on the boat, the monologue of Ben reading his
00:24:11
note. All of that to me screams Jack
00:24:14
Carr. And the other thing that it is,
00:24:17
it almost read like one of his. Preludes, you know how Jack
00:24:20
writes those letters to the reader before every book, And I
00:24:23
will say that might be some of his finest writing, his essays.
00:24:26
I I honestly wish I had just a book of his, of those of, of the
00:24:32
I think it's the the prelude and then at the end it's author's
00:24:35
note. But you know what I also think
00:24:36
is great is the prologue and epilogues sometime are are so
00:24:40
great and they're just great. Like almost like cliffhangers or
00:24:46
bookends. It's completely they're great
00:24:48
little scenes that kind of could stand on their own.
00:24:50
The one that comes to mind for me is Only the Dead with it's
00:24:53
the first time we really jump into Tom Reese and he's on the
00:24:55
docks and something happens with some assets on the docks and
00:24:59
then they meet up at a restaurant.
00:25:00
Like that whole scene was nothing to do with James Reese,
00:25:03
nothing to do with the modern day timeline that was in the
00:25:05
book, yet it informed so much about the plot and it was just a
00:25:09
really awesome written novella. Almost like a lot of them almost
00:25:12
are like novellas. And so to have that echoed in
00:25:15
this letter that Ben's reading, it's like it's philosophical.
00:25:18
It's explaining his worldview. It's making Reese think about
00:25:22
who Ben is in life and where he's at right now.
00:25:24
I think that letter is a big reason that Reese picks up the
00:25:27
phone and says, like, brother, you don't have to carry this
00:25:30
alone. And instead of Reese being like,
00:25:33
what I thought he would say, because this is Hollywood, tell
00:25:35
me where you are, I'm coming. And instead, Reese is just like,
00:25:38
you don't have to shoulder this on your own.
00:25:40
And that's the language I think veterans need to hear from each
00:25:43
other the same way Reese tells the guys, no one thanked our
00:25:46
fathers for what they did in the wars they fought in.
00:25:49
So as one of your commanders, I need you to know I'm grateful
00:25:52
for what you're doing. I'm grateful for who you are and
00:25:54
what you bring to the table. And so when Reese answers the
00:25:56
phone and says you don't have to shoulder this burden alone, I
00:25:59
was like, that's all because he read Ben's letter and he knows
00:26:03
the psychological profile that Ben is right now.
00:26:05
And it's unstable. Yeah.
00:26:06
It's. Bad.
00:26:07
I like, I like the in that moment too, that James and at
00:26:10
least Boozer, I think maybe some other Bravo guys are in a bar
00:26:14
and it it, it kind of takes you back to, OK, that scene in the
00:26:18
first season, the terminal list that actually isn't happening to
00:26:21
James because he's concussed and having having problems.
00:26:24
But it's not uncommon for him and Boozer to be in a bar
00:26:27
together drinking and stuff. And yeah, I just, I just really
00:26:31
enjoyed it. He he talks about how many times
00:26:33
he read the letter and it's sticking with him.
00:26:34
He knows something's wrong. So I really, really enjoy enjoy
00:26:39
that letter a lot. I agree.
00:26:42
And you know, we haven't even talked about this whole time,
00:26:44
but really the hero who saves the day, who's the link between
00:26:47
these two and Reese coming to save Ben is MO MO contacted
00:26:54
Reese. Like I just think that shows how
00:26:57
in mesh he is in their friendship in this dynamic.
00:27:00
He's basically one of the brothers.
00:27:02
And I think MO might have been the best part of the show.
00:27:05
He saves the day with that phone call.
00:27:07
And then when they're all together at the end, basically
00:27:10
with Tal, of which I didn't trust Elisa from the beginning
00:27:13
and I I didn't really vibe with her.
00:27:16
And I know maybe you're not supposed to massage's always
00:27:18
going to stab me in the back if it's part of their mission, like
00:27:20
country first. But Tal, to me, I felt like
00:27:24
appreciated the bigger picture. And she had, she had the balls.
00:27:27
Tal had the biggest balls of almost anybody in this season
00:27:30
like she was. Non-stop.
00:27:31
I mean I love whatever Landry tries to do what he was doing
00:27:34
and she ends up put throwing a knife in his neck pretty pretty
00:27:37
deep, at least enough for him to bleed.
00:27:39
And that was another part. I actually love Hemsworth as as
00:27:43
Landry. Now, I know that Jack has said
00:27:46
he really enjoys him as an actor.
00:27:48
And one of the questions I plan on asking him is, man, does it
00:27:51
suck to like someone so much and have to fucking take their balls
00:27:55
off with piano wire? Because I, I think it's going to
00:27:58
be. I just want to see his reaction.
00:28:00
Don't spoil. Too much now, yeah.
00:28:02
Yeah. So I think that'll injury.
00:28:04
I mean, interesting character, but how he's used here is it's
00:28:09
expected. You get to see his, like his,
00:28:12
his growth into what he what we know he becomes.
00:28:16
Exactly. But he also had to be this
00:28:18
Playboy fool just wants in on the action.
00:28:21
You know, he just, he just wants action.
00:28:24
And he had to be a little naive, a little rough around the edges.
00:28:26
He had to not play well with the boys.
00:28:28
So I think they handled him right.
00:28:30
And I think the fact that you always coupled him and MO were
00:28:33
so smart because that just rings true believer instead of when
00:28:38
they make what I'm going to call Season 3 true believer really
00:28:40
season 2. But I do think Dark Wolf in the
00:28:44
long term is going to be considered.
00:28:45
Season 1. I do think The Terminalist is
00:28:47
Season 2. I think true believer will be
00:28:48
considered. I would agree with you.
00:28:50
I would agree with you. But we're going to get other
00:28:52
seasons of Dark Wolf, the inner, the inner thread here.
00:28:55
And so I think that's when it's going to be thought of as two
00:28:57
shows. It's going to be like how Game
00:28:59
of Thrones and The House of the Dragon are viewed as separate
00:29:02
entities, even though that's true prequel to the other.
00:29:05
That's true. I really do hope people who
00:29:07
don't know anything about the books or the universe, I hope
00:29:09
they start with Dark Wolf I. I don't know if others agree
00:29:11
with me on that. Yeah, me too.
00:29:12
I, I think so too. And just another quick thing.
00:29:15
This is a unique situation We're not used to where both shows are
00:29:17
going simultaneously. Usually the main show starts,
00:29:20
ends, people loved it. So they're like, how can we get
00:29:23
more out of this fan base? They do a prequel and then they
00:29:26
get that fan base to continue. This is a very unique situation
00:29:28
where we have shows running at the same time that are in
00:29:31
different timelines of the same universe, so.
00:29:33
But but the genius of that being really complicated is pulled off
00:29:36
in that, and I said this on our previous episode, Dark Wolf sets
00:29:40
up True Believer way better than anything at the end of
00:29:43
Terminalist could do. End of Terminalist actually made
00:29:45
it hard for me to believe. Whoa, True Believer is going to
00:29:48
be the next season. Like pump the brakes.
00:29:50
That's going to screw people up. But now, after watching Dark
00:29:53
Wolf, anybody who knew nothing about the books can go into true
00:29:56
Believer and have a complete understanding.
00:29:58
MO Landry, the CIA Ground Branch, Wraith Africa, his
00:30:03
background, his morals, who the Hastings family is.
00:30:06
You can go into that now, True Believer feeling great.
00:30:09
The only one you may not know which a show needs to establish
00:30:11
new people is Freddie Strain. So that's a whole nother thing
00:30:14
that will have to come up, but that's that's what you save.
00:30:18
Freddie didn't need to be forced into dark wolf because that
00:30:20
wouldn't make any sense at all. But you need to establish him
00:30:24
and Reeser at some point in true believer.
00:30:26
So I love that that's the only nugget they chose to not preview
00:30:30
or not have like a Easter egg of in Dark Wolf and my other
00:30:35
favorite Easter egg, Victoria Rodriguez name drop.
00:30:39
That means nothing to most fans who don't know the books.
00:30:42
It means absolutely nothing. It was a throwaway line, but it
00:30:44
was so good. It was so good for the readers.
00:30:47
It. It, it was, I was like, oh, man,
00:30:50
like I was like kind of, I wasn't disinterested, but I was
00:30:52
like, OK, we're gonna wrap up here.
00:30:53
And like, he said that. And they like they said that in
00:30:55
the hair on hair on your arm, stand up a little bit.
00:30:57
And I think that we, we didn't touch on any cameos, but Jack
00:31:01
has two in the season 1's kind of brief and kind of cut.
00:31:05
The second one's a little bit more evident, which I think is
00:31:08
in episodes. Five, maybe six.
00:31:11
Well, hold on. He got he was the German
00:31:13
intelligence officer who comes out of the car and gets shot.
00:31:16
Yeah. Did he have another cameo or did
00:31:17
they just replay that? I think they just I.
00:31:19
Know he he has another cameo where he's a security officer
00:31:22
that talks to Jed I believe. Or at least walks past Jed
00:31:24
Haberford. Oh.
00:31:27
So there is another. There is, yeah.
00:31:29
There is another spot that Jack shows up in.
00:31:32
And so it seems like they're maybe filming a couple.
00:31:35
If they both make it, then great.
00:31:37
If not, they they they plan on one maybe being cut, you know,
00:31:40
depending on what what works best.
00:31:42
But seems like he's trying to get killed in every season of of
00:31:45
his shows, which is kind of cool.
00:31:47
Yeah. But I just I just looked up they
00:31:48
did cast Freddie Strain. It's Gabrielle Luna.
00:31:52
I heard they cast. Yeah, he's been in.
00:31:54
Yeah, they he's been in some TV shows.
00:31:57
He was in Terminator Dark Fate, which was a 2019 one that wasn't
00:32:01
fantastic. However, he was the like T1000
00:32:04
Liquid Terminator. So if you've seen that, which I
00:32:07
think in that he was really cool.
00:32:10
He's done some action films and stuff as well.
00:32:12
So he's, he'll, he'll fit the part really, really well, I
00:32:14
think. I have 00 questions or concerns
00:32:18
about casting After Dark Wolf. Like, Oh yeah, me too.
00:32:21
Some people with Terminalist Season 1 brought up a couple of
00:32:24
things. The Katy thing, we don't need to
00:32:25
get into it. Some people are really hot and
00:32:27
bothered by that. I I personally was not, but
00:32:30
after this season casting is not a problem at all.
00:32:33
Like yeah, spot on. I think the, I think the Katie
00:32:36
thing can just for a second, then we don't have to talk about
00:32:38
her anymore. But I think the Katie thing can
00:32:41
be reeled in because I think having a romance brings James
00:32:46
back from like that savagery and brings him back and gives him
00:32:50
that peacetime. Like his piece is in Montana
00:32:53
with Katie, like she is a big part of it.
00:32:55
And I don't think it can be ignored to just for the sake of
00:32:58
an action show. Like you have to humanize James.
00:33:00
That's part of the greatness of him is that he is like a he.
00:33:03
He is like plain Jane, every man.
00:33:06
But he is like the prime predator when he gets set off
00:33:09
and he has to have that peacetime.
00:33:11
Yeah, well, that's why Africa has to happen because Jax even
00:33:15
hinted he wasn't sure Amazon would be too happy with how long
00:33:18
the the Africa stuff was filmed. The same way a lot of people
00:33:23
were not happy about the first entire half of True Believer
00:33:26
actually being that slow burn build up recovery of him and the
00:33:29
team of hunters and, you know, catching poachers on the
00:33:32
Hastings ranch. But I think that's part of
00:33:35
Jack's genius in the book is it's so necessary for the in
00:33:38
universe character. He has to have that path of
00:33:41
healing. The way things happened in the
00:33:44
terminalist. You can't just cut all of a
00:33:46
sudden. And now he's I'm back on OPS and
00:33:48
I have a romantic relationship and this woman that I just took
00:33:52
hostage on this island and was a savage in front of now is
00:33:55
falling for me. You need the healing piece and
00:33:58
you got to take time. So I think I heard him hint that
00:34:00
the first two episodes of True Believer are a lot of Africa and
00:34:04
he said they have a year to edit this thing.
00:34:06
I think filming might have even wrapped.
00:34:08
He said in the year. I guarantee they're going to cut
00:34:10
some of it down. But he goes, we spent so much
00:34:12
time and money there, I don't think they could cut it down
00:34:15
anymore below 2 episodes. Yeah, they can't.
00:34:17
They can't ruin their investment like that.
00:34:18
And it is needed. And I'm happy to hear that it's
00:34:20
the first two episodes instead of the first one.
00:34:23
And I think of the first two episode, like the first episode
00:34:25
I think is going to be sailing, The second episode is going to
00:34:27
be Africa, Africa. And so and then I think Freddie
00:34:30
Strange is going to hop in from there.
00:34:31
And then we would get what, 5 episodes of of action.
00:34:35
So in my opinion, I, upon the first read, I actually disliked
00:34:39
the first half of that book. I was like, Oh my God, let's,
00:34:41
let's go, let's speed it up. But as, as, as time goes on and
00:34:44
I read them more, more times or listen to the more times I
00:34:48
actually miss, if I haven't read it for a while, I miss that
00:34:51
first half because it is the, it's like the first half of Lord
00:34:54
of the Rings of, of Fellowship of the ring.
00:34:57
It is completely the only time it is peaceful and enjoyable of
00:35:02
man. You know what?
00:35:02
This is awesome. And like you could have like
00:35:03
joyful music. Like I love the music in the
00:35:05
first half of Fellowship of the Ring, but it's the only time
00:35:08
that music hits and that's why it's special.
00:35:09
That's what the first half of True Believer is, is it's
00:35:12
special because it's peacetime and it's a little boring, but it
00:35:15
is so much character building in world building.
00:35:17
Like all of the sailing stuff, him remembering college Rafe,
00:35:21
why they're important because you don't get any of that in the
00:35:23
first book. And I think all of that's going
00:35:26
to be important because you don't get any of that in the
00:35:28
first season. You only get the Rafe's
00:35:29
important because of Dark Wolf. So maybe we don't have to spend
00:35:32
so much time on Rafe's history with James, but it's still, it's
00:35:36
still important to to back up a lot of these things, so.
00:35:40
I can't agree more, that was always my favorite part of the
00:35:42
book and even when it was people had your opinion on the first
00:35:45
read or the the first impression like oh this is a let down after
00:35:49
what happened in Terminalist but come on if you kept up the
00:35:52
terminal list level brutality. You'd be burned out.
00:35:55
Psychodrama, you'd be burned out and it would be so unbelievable.
00:35:59
The Africa stuff to me added so much realism, so much, like I
00:36:02
said, healing. He just lost his family, the
00:36:04
tumor, this miracle call from a doctor that he'll be saved.
00:36:08
The CIA has to kind of find him. He's so off a grid.
00:36:11
It shows you the importance of the Hastings Ranch and the land
00:36:14
and how much this family is tied to heritage.
00:36:17
And Reese is part of that. Reese is viewed as part of that
00:36:20
family. And I think that Africa stuff is
00:36:23
so good. I can't wait to see it.
00:36:25
It doesn't have much to do with true Believe with Dark Wolf, but
00:36:29
I think it does because that would come out of the blue
00:36:31
starting True Believer. And now it doesn't because Rafe
00:36:34
has hinted at Rhodesia so many times.
00:36:36
People are going to see the African stuff and be like, got
00:36:38
it, Reese and Rafe. Yeah, I really loved him talking
00:36:42
about Rhodesia during the torture scene.
00:36:44
And that background is is super important.
00:36:48
And I like, I like whenever James is on the phone with Ben
00:36:51
and he says that our Rhodesian friend is exploring some, some
00:36:54
chants, some I think he says some official.
00:36:56
Other channels, yeah, because he's actually trying to collect
00:36:59
evidence, go to CIA, clear all their names, take down
00:37:02
Haverford, which I think Ben just sees as complete folly.
00:37:06
Ben's like, at that point after race split, he's like, that's a
00:37:10
waste. What are you even doing?
00:37:12
The only way, the only way we come out of this is if I show up
00:37:15
with the bearings, I expose the teams and we get tall on the
00:37:19
comms to catch Haverford in a lie.
00:37:21
And like, if we don't get that evidence, it's game up.
00:37:24
And Rafe wants to be the good boy.
00:37:26
Go tell the go tell the CIA my story and they'll believe me.
00:37:29
And, and Ben's like more of that realist that like dejected
00:37:33
realist who's like, Nah, man, the hard work's got to be done.
00:37:36
Like the hard work's got to be done.
00:37:39
Can't give a quibble if, unless there's any other major scenes
00:37:41
we might have missed or not covered.
00:37:43
I I just have two quibbles. Go ahead.
00:37:47
The cuts for stuff. I didn't like it really the
00:37:51
first time. It just became there's this
00:37:54
super army on call hiding out all across Europe who's just
00:37:58
going to flood a building with shooters or flood a street with
00:38:00
shooters out of the blue. And they're actually tied to
00:38:03
Iran. And everyone knew they were cuts
00:38:05
for us. And like, maybe these
00:38:08
paramilitary groups are hiding out from other countries in
00:38:11
Europe, ready to strike in a moment's notice.
00:38:13
But when we did the tunnel shoot out, I think episode 4 with the
00:38:17
with the the bearings and the German intelligence, I was like,
00:38:20
God, this is too video game ask. Like these guys are just
00:38:22
respawning. They're NPCS, they're just
00:38:24
coming at it. We mow them down, we move on.
00:38:26
Like it was really good action, but it was the first time in the
00:38:29
show I said it's kind of bullshit.
00:38:30
It's kind of like video game ask.
00:38:32
And then the next episode they have the hostile shootout.
00:38:35
Same amount of guys swarm the hostile massive shootout in the
00:38:38
middle of a European city. To me, that's not ACIA story.
00:38:42
A CIA story is not a massive shootout in a European city.
00:38:45
It's like the more secret squirrel stuff like they were
00:38:48
starting to do with the nightclub and in the nightclub
00:38:50
going through the alleys and how they had to chase Masood Denawi
00:38:54
through the alleys of the sleepy city in this little village.
00:38:57
To me, that's like more if CIA OPS go South and things turn
00:39:00
hot, it's more that it's not 50 to 70 guys pour out of a van
00:39:05
around every every turn and start fighting you in a hostile.
00:39:09
And then they did it a third time where they they just popped
00:39:12
up at the at the Black Forest. I was like, I just don't
00:39:16
understand that we're respawning.
00:39:17
It was so video game esque. It was the cheapest thing about
00:39:20
the show. And it's the only time I
00:39:21
questioned. This isn't very realistic.
00:39:23
It would. Yeah, my big quibble.
00:39:25
I agree with that. I think one of the only things
00:39:28
is like, if you have someone who's trained as a SEAL, not,
00:39:32
not all the characters are, but MO is supposed to be great,
00:39:35
obviously. So you have Rafe and Ben, and
00:39:38
let's just say I've, I've heard this brought up in the books,
00:39:42
that one trained SEAL gunfighter is worth like 10 inserts.
00:39:47
That's right. Yeah.
00:39:48
Well, guess what? If you want them to feel, if you
00:39:50
want the viewer to feel like they're in danger, they can't be
00:39:53
going up against three dudes. They're gonna fucking wax them
00:39:54
every time. And so I think the numbers is
00:39:57
kind of trying to make it make you nervous.
00:39:59
But here is one of my quibbles is I don't like how close to
00:40:03
death Ben comes in the finale. I think he's like on the brink.
00:40:07
He's doing the breathing thing. It reminded me a lot of Lone
00:40:10
Survivor, which he was also in. Yeah, but I think.
00:40:14
He talked about Rogan. He was on Rogan.
00:40:16
Talked a lot about filming Lone Survivor, Yeah.
00:40:18
Yeah, yeah. I just think my, my problem is
00:40:21
we know he survives. We know he makes it like stop
00:40:25
trying to, to really lay in like how many, how many minutes are
00:40:28
we just focused on him popping up, shooting, popping up,
00:40:31
shooting and then breathing. He's injured, popping up,
00:40:34
shooting. And it's like we, we know he's
00:40:36
struggling. He's probably not going to make
00:40:38
it. So like, let's get to what's
00:40:39
going to save him here. And then, you know, there's
00:40:41
those codes. Guys do like the little L ambush
00:40:44
or they try to do 1 and you know it doesn't obviously work out
00:40:48
too well for them but I just didn't like how long they try
00:40:52
and build suspense with Ben being OK when I know he's going
00:40:55
to be OK. He's alive in another series
00:40:58
that takes place in the future. Now the greatest part about that
00:41:01
scene and the redeeming quality is the reveal of the Winkler RND
00:41:06
Tomahawk stay. You see a silhouette on
00:41:08
someone's back and you know that shit is getting laid deep and it
00:41:12
is super satisfying. I feel like it redeemed any
00:41:18
misuse of it, not necessarily misuse of it, but maybe disuse I
00:41:22
guess is a better word of its lack of use in the first season.
00:41:26
Now I do like it's use in the first season.
00:41:27
There's a really great scene in the finale where he goes up
00:41:31
against Cowboy. Cerrone is acting as a security
00:41:33
guy and he gets it into the side of his head.
00:41:36
But. He used it in the cartel house
00:41:38
too, didn't he? Didn't.
00:41:39
He yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah. To gut.
00:41:41
He has two at the house. He got the guy in bed I think.
00:41:45
Yeah, he he, he leaves, he leaves one attached to the to
00:41:49
the beam where he makes the guy walk and gut himself right.
00:41:52
So I think 1 gets it's better here he has.
00:41:55
Much better Winkler cameo here, much better, a little drawn out.
00:41:58
So you're right about the suspense because the whole time
00:42:01
while this is happening, I'm like, either his trap is going
00:42:04
to work and he's just going to blow all these guys through some
00:42:06
detonation that he set up because that's the force
00:42:08
multiplier, right? One guy acting like he's 50.
00:42:10
It's like the freaking Patriot, you know, aim, aim small, miss
00:42:13
small. I'm like, there's no other way
00:42:15
he gets out of this. Or I was thinking it could be a
00:42:17
stand down order. So I'm like, maybe these guys
00:42:20
get a stand down order from somebody high up someone.
00:42:23
Iran. I was like, OK, the German
00:42:25
military could come, but I don't know how that would resolve.
00:42:27
That would just escalate things. German intelligence.
00:42:30
And then so I'm like, the only other option is the cavalry
00:42:32
comes and somebody calls in the cavalry.
00:42:34
They gave me so much time with the suspense of like, he can't
00:42:37
win. I know we can't win.
00:42:39
They're visually telling me he's not going to win.
00:42:41
And they played it out so long it let my mind wander to all
00:42:45
these other scenarios. And I concluded, oh, wait, Reese
00:42:48
just has to come. And I think if he came earlier,
00:42:51
I wouldn't have gotten there myself or I wouldn't have played
00:42:53
it over in my head. And if he just came in the
00:42:55
middle of the fight and he just, like, lines up next to Ben
00:42:58
behind the sandbags and they're shooting dudes together and then
00:43:01
Ben gets shot in the fight. I would have liked that a little
00:43:04
more than the whole, like, bleed out Hollywood scene.
00:43:06
I'm going to die. What was me my friends here.
00:43:08
Yeah, Yeah, that's my. Yeah, yeah, I think.
00:43:13
And then the only other thing that I would nitpick is why is a
00:43:16
active SEAL team, all of Bravo Company for some reason
00:43:20
deployed? On our the same time.
00:43:23
To help to help ground branch while they're while they're
00:43:25
actually rotating out of their deployment.
00:43:28
Long live the brotherhood, man. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:30
That's why I mean, all of the stuff in the first season of
00:43:34
Terminal List is like the rule breaking initial, you know,
00:43:38
let's let's just say everybody's used to playing by the book.
00:43:41
And then once, once Reese starts breaking the rules and Ben
00:43:44
starts breaking the rules, this is like new territory for them.
00:43:47
But this is an in my from what I can tell unless I talk to
00:43:50
somebody that says different. This is an enormous rule break
00:43:53
that seems out of the ordinary. But it is awesome and I will
00:43:57
forgive it because it of how good it plays out so.
00:44:00
Yeah, some things you have to forgive.
00:44:01
And Chris Pratt kind of talked about this.
00:44:03
If it's the 8020 where Hollywood is like the other way, 8020,
00:44:07
they'll listen to you 20% of time and like try to make it
00:44:10
realistic with what the actual operators advise and tell them
00:44:12
and then throw it out the window.
00:44:14
They're doing 8024. And so if this is the 20% we've
00:44:17
got to forgive, I'm OK with that.
00:44:19
If the cuts force thing of like too many of these random
00:44:22
operators spawning in in European cities is what I forgot
00:44:24
to forgive just so that there's awesome action, great.
00:44:27
I just think you could have been smarter about that action.
00:44:29
And the villains who go after these guys, think of like born
00:44:32
or something, right? The villains that you're up
00:44:35
against or he's up against in the random streets of Zurich or
00:44:37
wherever they are, I feel like they're smarter villains.
00:44:41
They're not just like, let's spawn 100 dudes and have them
00:44:43
shoot out. Let's not make them
00:44:44
Stormtroopers, right? Like these guys had stormtrooper
00:44:47
syndrome. They're just here in numbers,
00:44:49
they're duds and we just mow them down.
00:44:52
Yes, it's fun. Do it once.
00:44:53
They did it like 3 times and I just had too much stormtrooper
00:44:58
syndrome. I would rather have a smarter
00:45:00
enemy. I would have rather have Iran
00:45:01
being a lot more clandestine, if you will.
00:45:05
Or the battles that Ben has to fight on the streets of Europe
00:45:08
are not just massive shootouts. I wish it was more like when MO
00:45:11
escapes. When MO has to escape the
00:45:14
meeting with the scientist where he gets the bearings, I thought
00:45:18
that was more realistic of how a ground branch op would go.
00:45:22
Like they had three exit routes, they were all compromised.
00:45:25
They had to go through alleyways, someone on comms had
00:45:27
to direct him around the corner. He had to fight a dude in like a
00:45:29
hardware store where he picks up the sledgehammer.
00:45:32
Landry had to come at the right moment with the the X fill and
00:45:34
get in the van. I feel like that's more of what
00:45:36
I expect as an action scene in ACIA thriller and not just let's
00:45:40
spawn a mini paramilitary army in the middle of whatever.
00:45:44
Yeah, yeah, I agree. It is a lot like Skyfall.
00:45:47
What was your, what was your? I have a favorite line of
00:45:50
episode 6. I'd probably have to think about
00:45:51
the finale, but what I I definitely have one that stood
00:45:54
out and it's because it is a reference to something else.
00:45:57
Do you have a favorite line from from Six, which is the the plane
00:46:01
shootout episode in the bearings?
00:46:03
Obviously with the title, they want you to stick with a pawn
00:46:07
can take down a king, But for me it's just a little too on the
00:46:09
nose. Cliche.
00:46:11
I, I, I think I go back to I, I didn't pick any of these out.
00:46:13
So you're putting me on the spot.
00:46:14
But I, I think episode 6, it has to be that conversation I read
00:46:17
before. That's not who we are.
00:46:18
That's not us. And then fog of war brother.
00:46:21
I think that whole conversation just is exactly what I would
00:46:23
say. Well, I'm curious of yours.
00:46:26
So the Rafe stuff is for sure great.
00:46:28
And that's towards the beginning, minus towards the
00:46:30
end. And it's whenever they they
00:46:32
realize the bearings are real and they get back in the truck
00:46:34
and it's before the saw comes out.
00:46:36
But it's Landry, Moe and Ben talking about what the fuck are
00:46:39
we gonna do? And they, I think is that the
00:46:41
point? They get the text that tells
00:46:43
them that Jed's a bad guy. And that's right when Tom sends
00:46:46
them the picture of Jed. OK, so so Moe says say when and
00:46:51
that is a reference to Tombstone with Doc Holiday and it is
00:46:55
awesome. Oh, that's sick.
00:46:58
I wouldn't, I wouldn't have picked up on that.
00:46:59
But yeah, that's a. Cool little line.
00:47:01
Yeah. They they're like basically
00:47:02
trying to think about what they should do.
00:47:04
And MO looks at him and says say when and and so then then they
00:47:07
get out of the car, grab the saw, the plane starting to spin
00:47:10
up and try and get out of there. That was another one of those
00:47:13
tense moments on the tarmac where you could feel, they're
00:47:16
such good actors. You could feel their
00:47:19
frustration. You could feel their anger.
00:47:21
It's like seething through every pore of their body that they got
00:47:25
played and they realize they only have one option, which is
00:47:28
stop the plane, like get the bearings back.
00:47:30
And when they have to come to that realization that the
00:47:33
tension in that car is palpable. I, I love that scene.
00:47:37
That was it. It may be again, it's one of
00:47:39
those that this is slightly more unrealistic or harder to believe
00:47:43
that this bearing exchange would go down this way.
00:47:46
But at the same time, that's the part I'm willing to forgive
00:47:48
because you made such a tense scene and then that shoot out
00:47:50
mowing down the plane was phenomenal.
00:47:53
It was great. Yeah, I'm with you, I think.
00:47:55
Good. I was going to say we we kind of
00:47:57
have to really get to the very end.
00:47:59
I'm curious what you thought of because another conversation you
00:48:02
asked about 1 liners. I bet we can dig into some
00:48:05
brilliant stuff from Jed at the table with Ben in his house when
00:48:10
he's pouring the whiskey. I feel like that.
00:48:12
Conversation it it was a good conversation, but it didn't
00:48:15
stick with me as much as like the Raif conversation does.
00:48:19
So if you have stuff on the Jed conversation, no, not mistimed.
00:48:22
I I love the vibe and I love everything about it.
00:48:25
I don't know it it was I I don't know.
00:48:28
There isn't anything I could say that would like make it better.
00:48:31
It was like well timed. It's a breath of it's a it's a
00:48:34
breather break from action. It's a good conversation, cool
00:48:38
setting. It's like the the guy who you
00:48:42
know, who tried to play the bad ass meets the his creation.
00:48:47
Basically, it's like Frankenstein's monster meeting
00:48:49
Frankenstein, you know, completely.
00:48:52
I, I don't know, it's just like the, the context and the content
00:48:56
of the conversation is what I think wasn't, you know, great,
00:48:59
but go ahead. I think maybe it just came to me
00:49:02
now when it was actually something you said earlier.
00:49:05
I think I actually like the content.
00:49:06
I like the dialogue. I thought it was good, but maybe
00:49:09
it's the context of things across the show were just a
00:49:14
little too easy. That might be my other quibble
00:49:16
is they almost teed things up too much.
00:49:20
It almost dumbed down the audience of like, we're going to
00:49:22
tell you what's going to happen and then when it happens, you're
00:49:24
not that surprised most of the time.
00:49:26
There were a few big twist and I think in this one it was like we
00:49:30
knew Landry took care of Golobev the the money launderer guy.
00:49:33
We know what's his name. MO took care of the other guy so
00:49:39
it's like. Now we know bench.
00:49:41
I love the MO. The MO ones great, but go ahead.
00:49:44
And who did MO kill? I'm just trying to think back to
00:49:45
it. I think it was maybe the other
00:49:47
brother that was involved with Iran.
00:49:51
He was at a soccer game with his kids and I thought he was the
00:49:53
kid that got the motorcycle, so he's at the soccer.
00:49:55
Yeah, it's it was Cyrus. It was Cyrus replicating.
00:49:58
Yeah. Yeah, He's replicating what
00:50:00
Cyrus did to or Jed and Cyrus did to Elisa.
00:50:03
So yeah. Oh, MO MO's facial expressions,
00:50:06
I think he's the best actor in the show, hands down.
00:50:09
His facial expression just threw the motorcycle helmet looking in
00:50:11
the window and the timing of how long he pauses for, it's like
00:50:15
not a full second, but it's not a fly by.
00:50:17
It's like this very crisp, like half second with that stare,
00:50:23
staring like he says dialogue. He says dialogue with his eyes,
00:50:26
with his eyes. How do you like that
00:50:28
motherfucker is? And the other time he gets
00:50:30
delivered 100%. And the other time he did it was
00:50:33
at the checkpoint going into Mosul.
00:50:35
Yeah. He tells an entire story with
00:50:38
his face and it's he's always kind of looking the other way.
00:50:41
It's always like, I'm not one of you, but I am one of you for my
00:50:45
own country. I'm the Iraqi version of you.
00:50:47
I'm the one who's saving my country, putting my ass on the
00:50:50
line the same way you do for the America.
00:50:53
And so he's like looking away like this outsider, kind of like
00:50:55
he has a different perspective, but he is one of them.
00:50:58
So he's one of. Them and he's not one of them at
00:51:00
the same. Time and he plays it perfectly
00:51:02
when he's sitting there in all of the conversations with the
00:51:04
team but yeah, so he killed Cyrus with the with the soccer
00:51:07
at the soccer game. Great kill.
00:51:09
So it just telegraphed to you like oh we have a montage of
00:51:12
everyone getting revenge. Tal handed him the folder on Jed
00:51:15
with the evidence So it's like OK Ben is clearly the one to go
00:51:19
after Jed. So when he's sitting there in
00:51:20
the house, I was like telegraphed.
00:51:23
And then when he doesn't kill Jed, I was like, OK, also kind
00:51:26
of telegraphed because why would they collect all this evidence?
00:51:29
If you collected all the evidence, then you're just going
00:51:31
to off the guy. Why make the case against him?
00:51:33
So I was like, I mean, just to me wrong clear.
00:51:36
Just to clear themselves. Yeah.
00:51:37
I. I'm with you that I felt like
00:51:40
there was no weight or consequence to the conversation.
00:51:43
It was like they already had all the evidence against Jed.
00:51:46
He can't talk his way out of it. The content of the conversation
00:51:49
isn't going to change the result.
00:51:52
And so I was like, oh, they got it wrapped up.
00:51:54
And so like, it's not that I didn't pay attention, but I felt
00:51:56
like it didn't have weight to it.
00:51:57
Whereas like usually in those conversations like that, when
00:52:00
there's a breather like that and those two characters would run
00:52:02
into each other, I feel like it could have been delivered as if
00:52:04
Ben's missing something and he get he is either able to gather
00:52:09
it or he proves after the conversation he has it.
00:52:11
Now they started doing this in film and TV long ago of like,
00:52:15
oh, I recorded this whole conversation.
00:52:17
You just admitted to everything right now.
00:52:19
I'm happy. I'm happy they didn't go that
00:52:20
out. I'm happy they didn't go that
00:52:22
route completely. But the next scene I want to
00:52:25
talk about is so does does I want to say he gets the visit on
00:52:31
his boat next? Yes, that's another.
00:52:35
Thing that I think disappointed me because as good as the
00:52:37
Victoria Rodriguez drop was, I think you could have honestly
00:52:41
cut right to him interviewing in Langley.
00:52:45
Like I think the cut to him pulling up at the gates at the
00:52:49
Bush Intelligence Center in Langley.
00:52:50
Yeah, the final, final cut, that plus his interview or his
00:52:55
polygraph I think would have been enough.
00:52:59
I don't know this. Dash man or dasher character?
00:53:01
I don't know if they're teeing him up to be somebody at ground
00:53:04
branch that Ben will work with in season 2.
00:53:06
Like an off book. I think so because of who That I
00:53:09
think so because of who that actor is the actor Pablo Yeah,
00:53:11
yeah, yeah, yeah. Pablo Schreiber.
00:53:14
Yeah. I don't need that though that I
00:53:16
feel like that's cheap. I feel like if you want him to
00:53:18
be a big part of the next season, put him in episode 1.
00:53:21
Have him do something big in in episode 1 of like let's
00:53:25
establish him as the guy who recruited Ben.
00:53:27
I, I don't think we needed it here and it was already dragging
00:53:30
out too much. The end.
00:53:32
Like when, when they take down Jed and they blow up Cyrus and
00:53:35
they, they kill all the other guys, I'm like, OK, this is the
00:53:37
final montage and then there's one cutscene show's over.
00:53:41
But they did like 3 or 4. Montages and it's like.
00:53:43
You're clearly just doing this to set up something next.
00:53:46
I'd rather you just wrap up the story as the story needs to be
00:53:48
wrapped in my opinion. I agree with you.
00:53:52
But Dash can't be in the first episode.
00:53:53
It has to be Jed that recruits them, because Jed is he.
00:53:57
He's on the other team. This is all deception and Jed is
00:54:00
trying to find scapegoats and that's what Rafe and Ben are.
00:54:05
I think that's he recruits them because they're pipe hitters,
00:54:08
but he can also pin pin stuff on them.
00:54:10
Whereas if Dash does it, he works for Victoria at Ground
00:54:13
Branch. Oh, I mean next season.
00:54:14
Runs a tight ship. Oh yeah.
00:54:16
Yeah, don't put. Dash in this season at all.
00:54:17
Don't make up a. Character in the in the 11th
00:54:20
hour who? When you said first episode to
00:54:22
recruit him, I thought you. Meant the first episode of the
00:54:23
season. Like how Jed Jed had recruited
00:54:25
them in Germany. When Jed recruits him in
00:54:27
Germany. I thought it was perfect and I
00:54:29
think OK. Not to get you us off topic, I
00:54:31
think this entire show hinges on Jed.
00:54:35
If you buy Jed, from the moment he's selling them, he he's
00:54:39
praying on their vulnerabilities, knowing what it
00:54:41
means to them to get kicked out of the teams.
00:54:43
And he's telling them, I can get you back.
00:54:45
I basically can be your saviour and I can get you.
00:54:47
I need shooters. So he's like praying on their
00:54:50
vulnerabilities. And I bought it.
00:54:52
I was like, he's this old timey spy.
00:54:54
He's this legend from Beirut. Yeah, I'm excited for this.
00:54:58
He absolutely offers Ben and Rafe.
00:55:01
What they want, which is to make a difference and to get
00:55:05
basically their their little revenge on someone who they hate
00:55:08
completely, but he's using them, their pawns.
00:55:12
So then next after. That which I.
00:55:15
Don't think. I think that scene drags a
00:55:17
little bit whenever Dash visits him on the boat.
00:55:19
I think the next next scene is truthful, conclusive, or
00:55:22
deception indicated. Perfect.
00:55:24
Is the next scene just cut to that?
00:55:26
That's all I. Needed.
00:55:28
That is the first. That is the.
00:55:30
First moment you really see true emotion come out of Ben Edwards
00:55:35
when he hears that his wife is going to leave him.
00:55:38
You see nothing when you see him finally reading voicemails or
00:55:42
watching videos of his wife on his phone at the Skyfall House.
00:55:46
Not much, but he's reminiscing. This interview polygraph is
00:55:53
absolutely a first emotion you see pop from him, which is great
00:55:57
acting by Taylor Kitsch. And then I think the deception
00:56:02
indicated and truthful conclusive results on the screen
00:56:04
are absolutely book reader straight from nods, even even
00:56:09
though it seems may maybe to non book readers, if you're
00:56:11
listening, it's it may seem as like who who the fuck cares?
00:56:14
It's like a true, true or false, you know, lie detector tests.
00:56:18
And it's it's a little bit more than that.
00:56:19
It has a lot more meaning behind it because eventually in the
00:56:23
books, whenever Reese takes the same to join ground branch, he
00:56:28
those results are how they are described in the book, which
00:56:32
which is is different than, oh, you, you lied or you told the
00:56:35
truth. It's like, I don't know.
00:56:36
It's just something that's very specific to these books.
00:56:38
It's very specific to the book and that.
00:56:41
Scene was filmed as I would have seen Reese going through the
00:56:44
polygraph on page. Like when I read it on page I
00:56:47
was imagining something so similar to that.
00:56:50
That was one of those perfect moments of they balanced the
00:56:53
book, a nod to the readers. They put it on film where it
00:56:57
needed to be in the story and time didn't work.
00:57:00
Dialogue and it worked, but they changed it, right?
00:57:02
It wasn't Reese going through the polygraph.
00:57:04
He's not going into the CIA. I'm I'm pretty sure the
00:57:06
questions are even in the same order.
00:57:08
As they are, you might be right. Yep, there's just so many echoes
00:57:12
to it. That one was done absolutely
00:57:15
purpose, perfectly and tastefully.
00:57:17
Between that and the Victoria Rodriguez is the 1-2 punch at
00:57:20
the end. They don't make sense.
00:57:22
They don't make as much sense or have as much meaning unless
00:57:24
you're a book reader. But they also work in universe.
00:57:27
Because Victoria Rodriguez is going to come up next.
00:57:29
Yeah, yeah, I know. Real quick.
00:57:31
Before we jump to true believer, are you still good on time?
00:57:35
Yeah, sure. I don't know how much we have to
00:57:38
say about true believer. So maybe you know more than me,
00:57:40
but we just do a little conjecture about what we want to
00:57:42
see what's coming. Well, the only thing I was going
00:57:44
to bring up is like you, you had brought.
00:57:46
Up about how after terminal issue you don't see how we get
00:57:49
the true believer, but now we do because we got a in choice of
00:57:51
these characters and you see how this writing is going to work
00:57:54
without the the sections. In my opinion, they got rid of
00:57:57
the unreliable narrator a they had to be they I think they
00:58:00
realize it doesn't work as well as they thought and I think
00:58:03
they're just adapting the books moving forward because I've
00:58:05
heard Chris Pratt actually talk about that recently how they're
00:58:08
the rest the seasons are just going to be book adaptations.
00:58:10
So where I was going with this is I agree with you, but I think
00:58:14
at the time that they did just the first season, that was all
00:58:17
they were guaranteed. And I think they put all their
00:58:19
eggs in one basket. And I think that they we don't
00:58:21
know if we're getting a true believer.
00:58:23
So we're not gonna end this on an absolute cliffhanger.
00:58:25
But he is on the sailboat, which is a a little bit of one that's
00:58:28
true. But I think where you see us
00:58:31
leading this into true believer, they couldn't have done this
00:58:34
with the first season because they didn't, they weren't
00:58:36
equipped with the knowledge that they were going to get renewed.
00:58:38
Absolutely. And you don't like waste time
00:58:41
building story when it could be serving the season we're in.
00:58:44
And so I think that's maybe why I think this came up as a good
00:58:48
way to get to true believer. And I think it was released for
00:58:51
that purpose. A lot of the cast is going to be
00:58:53
in True believer. So something I wanted to talk to
00:58:57
you about. Regarding.
00:58:58
True Believer is not only the we already touched on the 1st 2
00:59:01
episodes are sailing in Africa that they shot on location is
00:59:06
great. I'm curious to see how they
00:59:08
actually changed some things. I have a feeling they're going
00:59:10
to change it because if for folks who didn't read the books,
00:59:13
in the novel, Ukraine and Russia get into a conflict and it was
00:59:17
written before it actually happened, really before the
00:59:19
conflict. And I don't know why, but Jack
00:59:22
decides to do this in every novel.
00:59:25
He writes about something that is like a real life thing that
00:59:28
ends up happening after the book is published.
00:59:30
And so he needs to stop picking ridiculous wars to write about.
00:59:34
But he had written about it. So I'm curious on what they're
00:59:38
going to change that to, what conflict that's going to change
00:59:41
too. But we'll, we'll see how that
00:59:42
goes. But something came up in an
00:59:44
interview that I had never heard before.
00:59:46
And if you are familiar at all with the John Krasinski, Jack
00:59:49
Ryan series, yeah, not not huge, but familiar, yeah.
00:59:53
OK, so it ran Four Seasons. At Amazon Prime and they still
00:59:58
have a good viewership and good fans, but John Krasinski isn't
01:00:02
willing to dedicate seven months of his life every time they want
01:00:05
to film a season. So Amazon announced that they
01:00:07
are filming they're filming it now is a movie that is goes with
01:00:12
the series OK not sure if that's going to end up in theaters or
01:00:16
if it will just go to Amazon prime.
01:00:18
I have heard in a. Interview with Jack for cry
01:00:24
havoc that in the future post true believer that we may get a
01:00:28
get films instead of series but hot taste.
01:00:33
Yeah, I think Savage Son would be an amazing movie.
01:00:36
I think. I think that story would be one
01:00:41
of the best plots for an action film I can imagine and something
01:00:46
you want to see on the big screen.
01:00:48
So I think for two reasons, both plot, story and screen, I'd want
01:00:52
to see that as a movie in a theater.
01:00:54
I think another miss. If I'm going to say a miss of
01:00:57
Season 1 and season 2, it is the timing.
01:01:00
I think 7 episodes did not do Dark Wolf justice.
01:01:04
I think it was strange. It got a little packed.
01:01:07
I really could have used more. And I don't just say that lately
01:01:10
because I I just want more. It's like a lot of fans say that
01:01:14
like give me more, give me more. No, I think the story demanded
01:01:17
more. I think some of the things that
01:01:19
were rushed here or clipped together probably in post
01:01:22
production could have breathed a little more.
01:01:25
The, the way MO disappears for like 3-4 episodes.
01:01:28
Well, bring him back and give him another two or three
01:01:30
episodes. The way Jed, you know, kind of
01:01:33
when the team was split up, right, it became the Ben and
01:01:35
Eliza show. Well, Ben and Eliza had like 2
01:01:38
episodes together on the Lam, if you will, with the bearings.
01:01:41
We'll we'll give Moe and Landry an episode or two or give Jed
01:01:44
another episode of him and Cyrus behind the scenes.
01:01:48
I want to see them meeting like very clandestinely, like how
01:01:51
they're having their meats and any drop boxes and
01:01:53
communications. Tal Tal just shows up somewhere
01:01:56
and like has the goods to eavesdrop on somebody.
01:01:59
I loved when Tal would just like put her head up, her hood up and
01:02:02
then like sneak into an apartment building or across the
01:02:04
street. Like I wouldn't mind a whole a
01:02:07
whole episode dedicated to Tal spycraft.
01:02:09
So I think the show could have breathed more.
01:02:12
So 910 episodes, whatever. I think would have been.
01:02:16
Justified for this and so if you now try out movies, some books
01:02:21
that work better for a movie, do it and then maybe a longer book
01:02:24
like only the Dead or whatever the 4th 1 was, maybe one of
01:02:29
those would work better as a series.
01:02:30
I think there's an opportunity to really play around in
01:02:32
universe and and do some different media.
01:02:35
I agree. I think that.
01:02:37
We'll, we'll see. I think the the Jack Ryan one
01:02:40
would be a good format and like example to see if it works well.
01:02:43
And I think also if it releases on Prime, then so would the
01:02:46
James Reese one release on prime rather than theater.
01:02:48
So we'll see if it gets a theatrical.
01:02:50
I think it's a theatrical release.
01:02:51
I would be stoked about that. And I think you're right that
01:02:53
Savage Sun lends itself very well to first, second, third act
01:02:58
content. Great finale.
01:03:01
It's it flows. It's the fastest read, but at
01:03:04
the time it was the most hefty novel.
01:03:07
So I don't understand how something could be more pages
01:03:09
than the previous books but be a faster read.
01:03:11
And it's because of the the pacing.
01:03:13
If I do still hold that at my. Number one novel.
01:03:16
Not just in the series, but of all time.
01:03:19
So I think it would work well as a movie, but I really think that
01:03:23
it's going to depend on the success of late.
01:03:25
The Jack Ryan one, I think they do play around and try and test
01:03:29
those things out. Because I know that Jack
01:03:32
mentioned and it came up with the same way that basically
01:03:36
Chris Pratt is dedicating seven months of his life to every
01:03:39
season of this show. And it's not that it's getting
01:03:41
stale, but he has a so many other projects that he has to
01:03:44
bounce to. And he's filming this in in
01:03:45
Morocco on location, in Paris on location and stuff.
01:03:48
And so basically he's loving it, but he's trying, they're trying
01:03:51
to find a way to make it more digestible for him to balance.
01:03:54
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:03:55
So I was just curious of your thoughts of that.
01:03:57
It was the first time I'd heard that, thought it was a cool
01:03:59
idea. And it came from Jack on another
01:04:01
interview. So yeah, No, that's cool.
01:04:04
I will say if we're. Talking true believer, just real
01:04:06
quick, I don't mind a change from the Odessa stuff and the
01:04:08
Ukraine stuff. I think that story needs a
01:04:10
little freshening up and moving away from RIP, you know, RIP
01:04:13
straight out of the headlines as you were saying.
01:04:15
But I think what I if it's missing in true believer 1
01:04:20
Freddie strain what he was doing in that.
01:04:21
Cabin. That was rigged or.
01:04:25
Something and then the other one is the.
01:04:26
Sniper I think if you don't take from the Odessa.
01:04:31
Scene the sniper. I'm not.
01:04:32
Going to say too much but something with a ship and a
01:04:34
cargo box and a sniper. If you don't then transpose that
01:04:37
if they are filming in Morocco for Morocco story or Middle
01:04:39
Eastern story you can easily do it off the Med.
01:04:42
If you stick with Israel, Iran, you could do it totally in that
01:04:45
part of the world, wherever they go with this, whatever story
01:04:47
they tell. I think, and I don't remember
01:04:49
his name, but that villain, the sniper villain, and how much
01:04:53
that shot matters in Reese's life, in global politics.
01:04:58
I think you need to have the shot and have that shot matter
01:05:01
so much and have high stakes for everyone involved, personally
01:05:04
and geopolitically. So I think if you got to capture
01:05:07
that, I don't care where you place it.
01:05:08
I don't care what conflict you invent.
01:05:10
I don't care what part of the world it's in.
01:05:12
That was such a phenomenal part of storytelling that Jack was
01:05:16
like lightning in a bottle. Jack captured with that one.
01:05:18
It it made true believer pop. You got to keep that.
01:05:21
So I hope they do they do justice to that.
01:05:24
So that character is a Syrian. Sniper and his name is Nizar
01:05:29
Katan. Nizar Katan.
01:05:31
He's I think that you actually saw him in the blood in Dark, I
01:05:35
think No, I think you saw him in Dark Wolf.
01:05:38
There is a there is a scene where there's a bad guy at a gun
01:05:42
range with a sniper rifle and he's on the phone with another
01:05:46
character and it is the only scene this character has and
01:05:48
they never reveal to you who he is.
01:05:50
I don't believe he's even listed in the credits.
01:05:52
Is that when Cyrus is practicing?
01:05:55
At the shooting range too, That scene, no.
01:05:57
So I think Jed. Haberford is talking with this
01:06:01
guy on the phone and he maybe is supposed to like run the Quds
01:06:04
Force and he's at a he's at a he's at a gun range.
01:06:09
I mean it could be someone else to in next level if that's Nazar
01:06:14
Katan and even if. It's not it's it's such like a
01:06:16
subtle nod to what Nazar Katan becomes as a villain, one of
01:06:21
maybe the top villains in the Jacquard universe, very possibly
01:06:26
so that I think so he spans spans many books.
01:06:29
That the whole point of that book is supposed to be a sniper
01:06:31
versus sniper, cat and mouse globetrotting novel.
01:06:33
And I think it accomplishes that very good.
01:06:35
And that that book's I think that book's pretty good, but
01:06:39
100% agreed. Well, anything else on your?
01:06:41
Mind, we know you are the Jack car boss.
01:06:43
Can I can I just pick your brain for a second on the opening
01:06:45
month? Sure.
01:06:46
What do you think about seeing Ben's humble abode?
01:06:48
I like it because it's the same as the.
01:06:50
Boat that Reese ends up in and going to Africa and I think it's
01:06:54
really awesome. My curiosity lies in are, are
01:06:59
these changes we're seeing throughout?
01:07:00
You know, we're seeing maps change from sailing maps to maps
01:07:04
of Afghanistan. I know you and I had discussed
01:07:06
this in a in another conversation, but I think that
01:07:09
some of that stuff is meant to be OK.
01:07:12
This is him transferring from civilian life to to military
01:07:15
life, right, to being a SEAL. But then in other scenes that
01:07:18
some of the things lead me to believe that it's his transfer
01:07:21
and that boat may may have been like his getaway when he was in
01:07:25
the SEAL teams. And this transfer is him from
01:07:28
SEAL to CIA, because a lot of these things indicate sort of
01:07:33
like a downward turn. And this this him getting his
01:07:37
bird stripped and him having to leave the teams in in disgrace.
01:07:41
Basically, I think are big points of like a the beginning
01:07:44
of a downward spiral. And where we see him at the
01:07:47
beginning of the terminal list is he's he's kind of like the
01:07:51
the multiple wives, multiple divorce guy stereotypical.
01:07:56
And he just lives on his boat. And so I don't know, it's just
01:07:59
probably not important, but just the point of curiosity on my
01:08:02
part, where, when when did this start?
01:08:04
Is this a seal team problem or a or ACIA problem?
01:08:07
Because I think where it is important is like, does this
01:08:10
downward spiral add in to the initial talks of him betraying
01:08:17
James? Yeah, I I think it's a great.
01:08:20
Question I think I'm it doesn't need to be answered.
01:08:22
I think it's just all almost psychological downward spiral at
01:08:26
any time just showing that he's prone to this and you know, the
01:08:30
the clean kitchen being replaced with the bottles, empty bottle
01:08:33
and pills, you know, spilling out.
01:08:34
So yeah, I think, I think anytime in his life, leaving
01:08:38
CIA, leaving, leaving Seals, going CIA or something later
01:08:42
when he sells out around the time of the terminal list, any
01:08:46
one of those work for me as his psychological downfall and
01:08:50
spiral. So yeah, I'm with you.
01:08:53
But that was just my me. Picking that that intro part,
01:08:56
love the song choice. So I actually one of the best
01:09:02
things. I think the first season did a
01:09:04
really good job with music choices.
01:09:06
But this season overall, they did a really big post where each
01:09:10
slide was a different episode in the licensed music that they
01:09:12
had. And I thought they they went
01:09:13
big. I think the music choices this
01:09:15
season were much better than the first season.
01:09:17
I think it was even better. Agreed.
01:09:19
I I think, yeah. I think that was a big
01:09:20
improvement was was on the. Music side.
01:09:22
So overall, I think it is an an improved season, but I
01:09:26
appreciate that first season a bit more now and so I can't say
01:09:31
it's better, but it's it's on par and I think it's a great
01:09:34
series. So that's good to hear that you
01:09:37
went back and. Watched season 1 and.
01:09:39
And how Dark Wolf really makes that bump up a little bit in
01:09:43
your ranking. So it it it absolutely does.
01:09:46
And me just being like the film buff, there's a lot of practical
01:09:50
effects and in camera work and stuff that they do that may be
01:09:53
lost on most viewers, but that I see.
01:09:55
And I'm like, Oh my God, that is awesome.
01:09:57
Like there's a, there's a scene in there where James is having
01:10:01
like a mental breakdown and the camera basically swivels around
01:10:05
him and he's in civilian uniform and it swivels through his
01:10:09
kitchen and into like basically him remembering an
01:10:11
interrogation. And it so then you're in
01:10:13
Afghanistan, right? Or in Syria, I think in the, in
01:10:16
the series. And it, it shows him again, in
01:10:19
full uniform, from civilian clothes to full uniform from the
01:10:22
kitchen to an interrogation overseas.
01:10:25
And Boozer's there. He's in full uniform.
01:10:27
And basically he's, he's remembering this.
01:10:29
That entire scene is all practical.
01:10:33
The camera on the swivel there there is no cut.
01:10:37
Whenever, whenever Chris leaves camera, he is getting up and
01:10:40
changing clothes on the spot and walking into the shot and the
01:10:44
basically the set. I mean, there's just stuff like
01:10:47
that that I enjoy about filmmaking.
01:10:50
That is really cool when they pull it off and it it like it
01:10:53
like, you know, it works because people don't realize what just
01:10:56
happened. Yeah, I notice it, but I'm not,
01:10:59
I'm not saying I'm a I'm an expert by any means, but I like
01:11:01
stuff like that. But like your average viewer
01:11:03
would be like, oh, OK, he's going into like a memory.
01:11:05
But like, do you realize like the amount of work and the
01:11:07
amount of crew that just took to make this like 15 second shot
01:11:10
happens like a shot movie or something.
01:11:12
I remember I had a film. Teacher or a photography teacher
01:11:16
and she broke down this one scene from the village and I was
01:11:18
like and movie was kind of OK I didn't really like it and she
01:11:20
was like no let me show you how they move the cameras to get
01:11:23
this exact like zoom out and pan through the forest and I was
01:11:26
like yeah yo this becomes a different movie once you know
01:11:29
that and once you you have the knowledge of these skills and I
01:11:32
think that happens here as well yeah there's a there's a couple
01:11:35
of things I that I. Know about now that was done
01:11:38
during production that that the Julio thought were good ideas
01:11:41
that I disagree with because it's like he left clues for you,
01:11:46
but you don't know what you're looking for.
01:11:48
It's not a clue. Anyone would find out unless you
01:11:50
know what Djilio knew, which is any, any scenes and memories
01:11:54
with red in them, red clothing or anything like that.
01:11:56
They're false. They're unreliable.
01:11:58
Yeah, yeah. And and it's like a little.
01:12:01
Too mad or a little too subliminal?
01:12:04
Now that I watch it it's OK but it like.
01:12:06
I I don't know, it's I like when clues are left on purpose for
01:12:09
people to pick up and that one is a little too like a bridge
01:12:13
too far for an average viewer to grab.
01:12:17
Which is funny because this show almost does the opposite.
01:12:19
And telegraphs everything to the viewer a little too upfront.
01:12:22
So we need kind of a balance. Yeah, I think it shows a little
01:12:25
too easy. Yeah, I think it's predictable,
01:12:27
but in. In a way that isn't like over
01:12:30
overboard and then and then that does allow them to land a few.
01:12:34
Twists that are out of the blue, that hit harder because
01:12:36
everything else. Sometimes there's too many
01:12:39
twists, like I said earlier, too many mystery boxes, too many of
01:12:42
those things that you can't quite figure out or keep up
01:12:44
with. I didn't see it, but like a
01:12:45
tenant, it's almost too smart for its own good.
01:12:49
So I I think they balanced it better in this season and could
01:12:53
still get a little better. Even a true believer.
01:12:54
So only watch tenant if you're willing to watch an hour
01:12:57
breakdown video from the Rockstars on YouTube, which I
01:13:00
usually do for almost everything I consume.
01:13:02
So well, dude, it's been a lot of fun.
01:13:06
We know when we get Tyler Booer on the show, we are going deep.
01:13:09
So guys, we took you deep into episode 6 and seven of The
01:13:13
Terminalist. What a finale.
01:13:16
I am very pleasantly pleased and I'm not going to ask you to give
01:13:18
a number a letter grade, but I am landing at an A minus.
01:13:22
I'm I've I'm totally blown. Away I'm really.
01:13:26
Impressed. I was nervous after the first
01:13:28
season. I was like, if this is kind of
01:13:30
similar to the first season, I don't know if it's going to
01:13:32
bring people to the books. I don't know if it's going to
01:13:35
get the numbers on Amazon. I don't know if you're going to
01:13:37
draw readers back in or draw viewers back in.
01:13:40
I was pleasantly surprised that I think it's going to do all of
01:13:42
that plus more. So shout out to Jack, Jared
01:13:46
Shaw, David Djagilio, Chris Pratt, Taylor Kitsch, like the
01:13:49
the whole crew. Shout out to all of them.
01:13:51
Fantastic job with this and thank you.
01:13:54
Thank you for making this for us fans.
01:13:56
I I I think I'm there A a -, I. Think or or BB plus at the very
01:14:01
at the very least, like if I had to be a little more critical of
01:14:03
things, but I think you really saw a resurgence of the first
01:14:08
season. It made it up to #4 in the top
01:14:10
10. So it was actually in the top
01:14:11
five for for a week or two. And then this was at #1
01:14:15
consistently upon release like this released on Wednesdays.
01:14:18
So by Sunday it wasn't at #1 but the next Wednesday it's back to
01:14:22
number 1. So consistently for weeks, this
01:14:23
hit #1 which is great. And then the fact that there was
01:14:26
a huge resurgence for the first season is awesome.
01:14:29
And I know I had told you and if if the listeners pay attention,
01:14:33
the 4th of July this year, so just a few months ago for I
01:14:37
don't know what what made it happen, but I think the first
01:14:40
season made it back into the top ten, if not top five.
01:14:43
I think it maybe it was like #3 for, for the day or something
01:14:46
like that, which is, which is unique that a lot of fans
01:14:49
thought on, hey, it's 4th of July.
01:14:50
Let's check out Terminal List again and revisit it.
01:14:53
And yeah, so I think that was great.
01:14:57
I think this is just going. To continue to bring people to
01:14:59
the books. Bring people to the universe and
01:15:01
this is the catalyst the universe needed to really hit
01:15:04
next level. And like I said, maybe one day
01:15:05
make movies. So that would be a great end
01:15:07
goal if we can get there. Let's let's get the savage son
01:15:10
at the very least, like if Amazon can use green light that
01:15:13
good, you know, that's when you know you're rolling.
01:15:16
And I think once that happens, then it's an open canvas to do
01:15:18
whatever you want after that. They they can't say it, but
01:15:21
they've they've done. Everything but say it is that
01:15:24
we're getting more so more of that and more dark will see how
01:15:27
it goes. Keep it coming.
01:15:29
Injected into my veins. Well, thanks, Tyler.
01:15:32
Always great chatting with you. Too bad we couldn't have Chris,
01:15:34
but next time you're on, we'll definitely see if we can get
01:15:36
Chris involved and get the crew together.
01:15:38
So thanks for coming. Sounds good.
01:15:40
No problem. Thank you.