Chris and Mike discuss the first half (Chapters 1-17) of Code Red, the final book by Kyle Mills in the Vince Flynn Mitch Rapp series!
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00:00:12
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike, and welcome back
00:00:17
to this week's No Limits, the Mitrap podcast.
00:00:21
How you doing this week, Mike? Dude, it's the Code Red podcast.
00:00:27
This has been a long time coming since we got the title reveal.
00:00:31
Since we got the news of Kyle writing his last book in the
00:00:34
series, we've got the Steven Webber announcement.
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He'll be the narrator and the audio book reader for this dude.
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We've been hyping and pumping this up for so long and it's
00:00:44
finally here. I am so excited.
00:00:48
It's kind of like bittersweet. I almost everyone, you know, we
00:00:51
have like this group chat with our patrons and everyone's like,
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oh, I just finished it. I'm like halfway through and I
00:00:57
know some people were saying they were sabering it, you know,
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even though I've had this book for a while now, I haven't
00:01:03
wanted to pick it up. Not.
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Not because I I'm worried about it, but just I just didn't want
00:01:08
it to come, you know? If that makes sense.
00:01:10
Yeah, same here. Whereas like when we got
00:01:14
deadfall, yeah, I just, I I immediately dig into it.
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Like even if I only got even though even if I only got into a
00:01:20
couple chapters, I just wanted to rip into it.
00:01:22
But this one I just, I left there and I brought it on my
00:01:26
trip, obviously. And we said we were going to
00:01:28
record part one today. And so I I I sat down yesterday,
00:01:32
started reading it and I just was savoring and I sat outside
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of my hotel with a beer. I'm drinking some true Milwaukee
00:01:39
Brews Schlitz. I don't know if anyone on the
00:01:41
podcast knows what this beer is, but it's a it's an Old
00:01:44
Milwaukee, Old School Milwaukee beverage.
00:01:46
Watching a Brewers game, I was just savoring my last Kyle
00:01:52
Mills, Mitch Rapp book, kind of like Mitch Rapp was savoring,
00:01:57
you know, his time in Paris with Claudia.
00:01:59
You know, and I I definitely want to dig into the first half
00:02:02
of this book. I don't want to dig into like
00:02:03
the bigger picture of Kyle, what this means, where you think,
00:02:08
like you know what you're thinking.
00:02:11
But you know, my first gut reaction, my first gut thing is
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like, I have very mixed feelings.
00:02:17
Like, I like it but I don't like, but I'm not like loving
00:02:22
it, but I love it, but I don't like it, You know, it's it's,
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it's very weird. I don't know how to describe it.
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I don't know what if you feel the same way, Mike.
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First off, I'm having so many similar.
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Similar emotions the the roller coaster of emotions.
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This book stared me down for a few weeks, like we got it quite
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a while back. We got it a while ago.
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We did. And almost every time I see the
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ambassador's posting, I want to be in with the crowd, right?
00:02:47
I I want to be right there talking about it.
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Usually I get a little side chat or side Dms going with people
00:02:53
who finished it, you know, within a night or two.
00:02:56
I don't know why this one. It just stared at me.
00:03:00
It it was like giving me that challenge of like you, you got
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to do it, Mike. You like Kyle's time is coming
00:03:05
to a close. Like we have to say goodbye.
00:03:09
We have to put it, put the stamp on it.
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And it was hard to come around and and and get there and and
00:03:16
when I finally picked it up, the story really did get me.
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But I am with you. I am not making any final
00:03:23
conclusions or judgments until we cover Part 2.
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I'm really glad we'll be interviewing Kyle in between our
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part one and Part 2. Now some might say that will
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color our final judgment, but I actually want, I want that in
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this case. I I want a chance for him to
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tell us where he was at, where the characters were at in his
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opinion. And and I do want to hear a
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little back story on where this book came from and how it got to
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where it is. That being said, I'm not
00:03:55
offering a final judgment. I've seen a lot of people
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posting, you know, middle of the pack, one of Kyle's better
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books. Not as best.
00:04:02
Yeah, I'm, I'm not going to, I'm not going to wade into that
00:04:04
water yet. But I will say this, this book
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is packed with some absolute gems, some pure Kyle isms that
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are topnotch, some one liners, absolute zingers.
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And I even found some very very. Warming callbacks to Vince Flynn
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and I think this book is very subtle.
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I'm not going to say where I am on the overall plot or anything
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yet that that scorecard will come folks.
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But right now on this pod, I'm going to say in the first half
00:04:39
of this book are some absolute genius subtleties.
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And I want to get into those with you, Chris.
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And and here's one example of this.
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I was hesitant to pick up the book and I told myself.
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I'm not taking any notes. I'm reading this as a pure fan
00:04:55
through and through. Not a critic, not a podcast, not
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an evaluator, right. However, that was that was only
00:05:01
my approach, my mindset. I I immediately wanted to start
00:05:06
taking notes because of how good some of the writing was.
00:05:09
No, I I totally agree. And I actually I found myself
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started I I even highlighted some quotes.
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Yes. And that That's not me.
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You know that's not me. And I didn't want to do that.
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I don't know if you got the sense, but there was some true
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and even though this book yet hasn't like really gotten into
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that's not like super huge geopolitical like Belton Roads
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initiative, but it it has like this backdrop of this
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geopolitical thing with with you know the whole Syrian mess.
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And I feel like Kyle is you know, diving into his inner, I
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mean not to say like, but you know like it's very reminiscent
00:05:46
of what like Brad Thor does. You know, I I liked it.
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I don't know. Did you?
00:05:50
Did you not? I'm not sure if I do yet, but
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I'll be honest with you, I actually don't care.
00:05:56
Like we had Brad Thor do it expertly.
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You couldn't do it better in his last two books in Dead Fall,
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Rising Tiger. You know the whole geopolitical
00:06:05
stuff you've got, you've got Jack Carr doing the.
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The dark side of man, you've got him doing the warrior, the
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weapons thing, you know, and Kyle was never super attuned to
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the weapons. You know he had Rod who we had
00:06:19
on the pod and other people advise him on this.
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And The thing is, I don't need that in a MIT trap book right
00:06:24
now. I need the things we got, the
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small moments with Mitch and Claudia reflecting on their
00:06:30
future Mitch in Afghanistan. But thinking about what home is
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to him. There's a really great couple of
00:06:37
opening paragraphs about. Where is home to Mitch Rapp and
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it's actually the wood burning food burning on a on a on a fire
00:06:44
in the middle of the desert and it's the smells and the the dust
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and the stone of Afghanistan. And he's like, although that's
00:06:52
my natural home, it's not my home anymore.
00:06:55
My home now should be South Africa.
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It should be Virginia. And so that's the kind of stuff
00:06:59
I need in a Kyle Mills Mitch Rapp novel at this point in the
00:07:03
series. So the fact that I maybe I'm not
00:07:05
sure if I'm driving with the geopolitical stuff.
00:07:08
I don't care. I I really don't.
00:07:10
And maybe the weapons, right. You can get some some car heads
00:07:14
who are like, well give me descriptions of all the weapons
00:07:16
and the different things and the tactical stuff and and there's
00:07:19
some of that. Right.
00:07:20
Especially this final scene we're getting to today in
00:07:23
chapter 17 this up in Syria. There's some of it.
00:07:27
But I'm so glad to see Kyle, I think, leaning into his
00:07:30
strength. I would say leaning into the
00:07:33
strengths of this series and where the series is at right now
00:07:36
and and I want to get into it and talk about some of the
00:07:38
specifics that Kyle is absolutely knocking out of the
00:07:40
park in this one. Yeah.
00:07:42
And I feel like he went back to You know what?
00:07:46
What makes Mitch Trap. Mitch Trap?
00:07:48
Yes, like his athleticism. You know, even though he's he's
00:07:51
old, he's aging, but he's still, he's still super athletic.
00:07:55
His sacrifices. He's a man of his word.
00:07:59
Yes, yes. And you know, kind of like you
00:08:01
said, you could tell, I don't know if this is like a subtle
00:08:04
thing or or you know, an over overly overt thing in terms of
00:08:08
pulling upon hints of all of MIT trap's past.
00:08:13
Like you know, talking about like Stan Hurley and you know,
00:08:18
bringing up Maggie Nash and Mike Nash and obviously you know his
00:08:22
whole relationship with Irene. You know, obviously you have to
00:08:25
do some of that stuff with to set up the story relative to the
00:08:28
last book. Some of it just felt like it was
00:08:32
a little bit extra in the sense that this is, this is going to
00:08:35
be Kyle's last time telling that, you know, to us.
00:08:37
So you know what I mean? I don't know.
00:08:39
And it's just maybe just because I am fully invested in the
00:08:42
story. I know it from start to finish.
00:08:44
So I'm, I'm picking up on those cues a little bit more.
00:08:48
Bringing up Louis Gould, Like even not saying him by name, but
00:08:51
just, you know, talking about him, talking about his, the fact
00:08:54
that Anna has like a little bit of her father in her, you know.
00:08:57
Yeah. You know going back to Paris
00:09:00
this is a very you know Mitch has spent a lot of time there.
00:09:03
It's a city that we love and we've we've gotten a couple
00:09:06
books set in Paris like it's you know I felt like that was a
00:09:10
little bit of tap into the into the nostalgia of things.
00:09:13
We we we mentioned in the last book that he was tapping that
00:09:17
nostalgia. B too.
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And I, I you could, if we didn't know it from the last book, we
00:09:20
definitely know it now that he was obviously going down this
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path and we could you know we we could see where where it's
00:09:27
going. It's it's almost crescendoing
00:09:29
here. And it it almost, it just seems
00:09:33
like a swan song, the way it's being done.
00:09:36
And for that reason, so far, any quibbles I've had with different
00:09:39
parts of the book and the story I'm putting aside because I'm so
00:09:43
captivated by by those nods? You mentioned Hurley, right?
00:09:47
We get this line. While Hurley had been wrong
00:09:50
about a lot in life, his advice on the subject of killing was
00:09:53
impeccable. I I underlined that one for you,
00:09:57
Mike. Do you?
00:09:58
Why, thank you, Chris. Why thank you?
00:09:59
Well, let's underline it both for Kyle.
00:10:01
Let's get highlighters underlining Sharpie Asterisk in
00:10:04
the margin. All that for Kyle, because that
00:10:07
that's epic. And then, dude, all these
00:10:10
callbacks listen to this one. How Flynnian is this?
00:10:15
It's such a tribute to Vince to write this line quote.
00:10:20
None of them were the enemy. And he's talking about the guys
00:10:22
around the campfire in Afghanistan.
00:10:24
The Taliban says none of them were the enemy.
00:10:27
Not anymore. The enemy now was the people in
00:10:30
Washington and Langley who had set this up.
00:10:33
The betrayal wasn't here. It was back home, like, bro,
00:10:38
That's so early, Vince. It's a nod to every one of his
00:10:43
themes. Having the villains as the real,
00:10:46
excuse me, the the politicians. As the real enemy, the ones who
00:10:50
were jeopardizing what rap and Irene all all the crew wanted to
00:10:53
do and for Kyle to to slip that in.
00:10:56
I I just think a little thing like that would make Vince so
00:10:59
proud and then two lines later the Taliban guys call him the
00:11:03
Angel of death like that was raps nickname through all of the
00:11:08
Vince books like consent to Kill.
00:11:10
He was the Angel of death. He's coming and we get a nod to
00:11:13
that. It's just.
00:11:16
He's really, really smart. It's it's it's like this
00:11:21
metacognitive thing Kyle's doing.
00:11:22
I can't wait to ask him if he was aware of this or he's just
00:11:26
become so comfortable with the series that all these nods to
00:11:30
Vince and earlier books are just natural.
00:11:33
Yeah, I think it's definitely a little bit of both for sure.
00:11:37
If I had to guess you know he just he is so in tune with the
00:11:42
series. You know I would say it's it's
00:11:43
his now like you know and it's his to pass on.
00:11:47
He's fully embraced it and you got it.
00:11:50
You got to admit like alright this is going to be my last time
00:11:52
to write any of this stuff. I need to figure out what I want
00:11:56
to say, be true to the story highlight Vince in in the best
00:12:02
way possible. The the one thing I want to ask
00:12:05
you and it it's going to be it's a tough question right.
00:12:07
So following up the last two books, our saga with the Cooks,
00:12:13
how do you feel about this hard turn to essentially send Mitch
00:12:19
on like alongside Quest? How do you feel about that being
00:12:24
his final like Kyle's final installment to have Mitch, you
00:12:30
know we're chapter 17 is roughly halfway through the book.
00:12:34
You know, we're like 140 ish pages in and.
00:12:37
We didn't even mention that yet. Yeah, just for the people we
00:12:40
are. We're only going up through
00:12:41
Chapter 17 right to the end of 17 on this pod.
00:12:44
We've gotten maybe 3 pages of Irene Kennedy.
00:12:48
Like you know, it's it's it's very Mitch heavy, you know, I
00:12:53
guess secondary character would be Claudia.
00:12:56
And then we've gotten a lot of Damian Losa like this.
00:12:59
It's this character that Kyle you can tell loves that he
00:13:03
created and wanted to explore this and I guess, you know,
00:13:07
obviously seeing that this is his last time to explore he
00:13:09
wanted to to go down that route. But like I don't know.
00:13:11
I just want to get your thoughts on like not not.
00:13:13
I'm not trying to diminish it and saying that it is a side
00:13:16
quest but it's like a side quest that that that now you know once
00:13:20
you involve all the Russians. It's no, it's no longer a side
00:13:22
quest. It becomes like the what's going
00:13:25
to be Mitch's primary W you know this all right.
00:13:28
It's essentially, you know, I guess just to spoil everything,
00:13:31
like the Russians are trying to infiltrate this drug cartel by
00:13:35
putting in this super drug that six months later people are
00:13:41
going to be like freaking zombies, right?
00:13:43
You know, like in psychotics. So it's it's the same thing as
00:13:48
if we have Memorial Day with a bomb.
00:13:50
You know, it's it's killing mass amounts of people, right?
00:13:53
It's some crazy terrorist thing, but the whole set up to it is
00:13:59
not that at. All okay.
00:14:01
I see where you're coming from with that question and this idea
00:14:05
of a side quest. I I don't know if I want to
00:14:07
accept the premise of the question, although I guess I
00:14:10
have to because leaving Claudia to go on this mission kind of
00:14:15
makes it a side quest. Not having Irene as back up,
00:14:17
it's very clearly stated you won't have our resources right
00:14:20
doing this. I guess in those in that sense
00:14:25
it does make it into a bit of a side quest.
00:14:28
But like you said, one, it's building to something that will
00:14:31
involve the Russians. And I think it's deeper than
00:14:36
that, because this Seminov character who, who is the
00:14:39
Russian mastermind in Syria, you could say appointed to Syria,
00:14:43
but really, you know, kicked out into the backwater of Syria his,
00:14:47
his triumphant plans to return home and crown himself
00:14:50
essentially take over from Utkin and.
00:14:54
Navigate the the waters of politics in Russia to to take
00:14:58
the throne if you will. I I find that very compelling
00:15:01
and that is building and it's been teased in the early
00:15:06
chapters with this very, very compelling character to me
00:15:09
Semenov. So it's one thing that I think
00:15:11
it is building towards something more than a side quest.
00:15:15
Two, I think we have to kind of. Leave things be.
00:15:21
I thought it very interesting that early in the book Kyle
00:15:24
wrote there's a new administration.
00:15:26
Terrence Adams, the vice president for Cook, is now in
00:15:29
charge and doesn't want to run again.
00:15:32
We've got Irene reinstalled as the director again.
00:15:36
So I'm I'm almost okay if this is a side quest in the sense of
00:15:40
you just painted very broad brushstrokes and now Don Bentley
00:15:44
can pick up, you know, the finer brush and really start coloring.
00:15:48
You know, in between the lines. So if it's not a side quest and
00:15:52
building something to as revolutionary as upsetting the
00:15:55
Utkin, you know, administration in Russia, that's huge cuz that
00:15:59
takes us back to you know, Red War really that's the
00:16:01
culmination of a big Mitch rap universe plot.
00:16:04
But if we either don't get there or if we don't go back to Irene
00:16:09
and Claudia on the comms and doing the logistics and Scott
00:16:13
and his organization cuz he even writes he's off taking a
00:16:15
contract in. Lithuania or Stonia or
00:16:18
something. I'm OK with the kind of being
00:16:20
this isolated story to turn things over to Don.
00:16:24
I just don't know. I like, I can't answer the
00:16:26
question because the second-half of the book, I think there's
00:16:28
there's a lot of story to be told And so I don't know if
00:16:31
you're quite did you tee up, you know, a red herring for me
00:16:35
there? I don't know.
00:16:36
You know am I don't know this. Is a trapdoor.
00:16:38
I don't know. And that that's interesting to
00:16:40
me, right? It could be, it could fall flat,
00:16:43
it could be amazing. So.
00:16:45
That's a tricky one, man. That's a tricky 1.
00:16:48
My guess is that it it makes the most sense to do this.
00:16:51
You know, if if you going into it knowing that this is going to
00:16:54
be your last installment, your last touch point of the series,
00:17:00
you know you're not going to want to make ruffle too many
00:17:03
feathers. You're not going to want to, you
00:17:05
know, have some sort of groundbreaking, you know, make
00:17:08
MIT trap the president. You know or, you know, kill off
00:17:11
a major character. You know, like, you know, some
00:17:13
kind of bullshit like that. So you want to have a fun,
00:17:18
entertaining, engaging, not summer read.
00:17:20
Like that's what these things are.
00:17:22
You know, sell, sell a lot of books, have people enjoy it,
00:17:24
have people read it. Be true to the mid trap story
00:17:27
and this is what you're going to do.
00:17:29
I and I like the angst that Mitch has being this Matthew
00:17:37
character. What's his name?
00:17:38
What's his Canadian name? Matthew Fournier.
00:17:40
Fournier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:42
It's a different cover than he's ever really had to have it, but
00:17:46
it Harkins back to his cover in Lethal Agent, which is another
00:17:50
one of my favorite novels. Not a I guess it's not a cover
00:17:54
per se, but like that Remember when he has to go be the
00:17:57
bodyguard for like like essentially Miley Cyrus slash
00:18:02
Justin Bieber, you know? That's a side quest that that
00:18:05
little? Yeah, definitely.
00:18:06
Side quest, definitely. But then then that engages him
00:18:09
to Mexico or to? When he goes to Esparza in
00:18:13
Mexico, he's not, quote, undercover.
00:18:15
He has to convince them that he had nothing left to live for,
00:18:18
that the American government turned on him because he got in
00:18:21
with the drug dealers. And he's literally just doing
00:18:23
this because he needs money and he has skills.
00:18:26
And so he has to actually convince them he's himself, but
00:18:29
he's no longer the same attached.
00:18:32
Yeah, I don't know. Is that an alias or is that just
00:18:36
a ruse? That's just deception, you know?
00:18:40
So again, you're gonna you didn't bring this up yet?
00:18:43
Like the fact that he could just walk into a when people know
00:18:47
he's the Angel of death in Afghanistan, can he walk into
00:18:50
Syria and not people not know who he is?
00:18:52
Oh, I was sold. I was sold.
00:18:54
The way Claudia was talking about his suit and his hair,
00:18:57
that he was a different man. He's got enough enough of the
00:19:00
disguise to cover himself up. Oh, absolutely.
00:19:02
I think he said it took him like 4 days to work on him or
00:19:05
something like that. Hey, and that Harkins, back to
00:19:09
my initial point, which was this idea of what is home to Mitch.
00:19:15
You know, is that physical transformation with a bunch of
00:19:18
manicurists? Is that a symbol of of rap
00:19:22
leaving the the grit and the dirt and the sweat of being on
00:19:26
the field in Afghanistan? I mean, I I just thought that
00:19:29
reflection was so cool. Let me actually read this.
00:19:32
This was OK And here's a little quibble.
00:19:35
I am not trying to armchair quarterback here or armchair
00:19:39
author. Actually, if we could be accused
00:19:41
of anything on this pod, it's being armchair authors.
00:19:44
Yeah, pretty much, yeah. However, however, I I think this
00:19:49
one might be valid, so listen to this quote.
00:19:52
It happens in Chapter 4. So we've already established rap
00:19:55
on the ground because Chapter one opens with him and the team
00:19:59
including Scott, you know, going through the desert.
00:20:03
Well, actually they're in the Hindu Kush, so it is a little
00:20:05
rocky, rocky terrain. But chapter 4 opens with quote.
00:20:11
A shrink would probably be concerned.
00:20:13
That rap associated the smell of Afghanistan with home dust,
00:20:17
stone, and food cooked over open fire.
00:20:20
The reason he'd been able to operate so successfully in the
00:20:22
region was that, to some extent, he'd gone native.
00:20:25
He'd never seen his time in country as a tour.
00:20:28
He rarely felt the compulsion to go, quote, home.
00:20:31
He didn't belong there anymore. He belonged in Virginia, in
00:20:34
South Africa. It still surprised him how clear
00:20:37
that had become. He had a place and it was with
00:20:40
Claudia and Anna Bro. That could have been chapter
00:20:44
one. Can you imagine the first line
00:20:46
of this book when we go from the prologue, the Side Story in
00:20:49
Salerno, which maybe we should talk about to chapter one, You
00:20:52
know, we always want in chapter one, a cold open with rap.
00:20:55
And if it said a shrink would probably be concerned that rap
00:20:59
associated the smell of Afghanistan with home to me.
00:21:03
That's an epic first line. Epic first line.
00:21:07
Yeah. No.
00:21:08
But but I did enjoy the the fake out like the whole like I was I
00:21:14
was confused. I I was I was like what's going
00:21:17
on here And Kyle's you know, again this writing is very good.
00:21:19
The fact that as you're reading it you yourself are supposed to
00:21:23
be confused just as he's trying to confuse the you know the
00:21:27
people that he's going after. Right.
00:21:29
To get these hostages. Yeah.
00:21:31
No. Like I I was reviving the first
00:21:33
couple chapters of this book, like, you know, and then cutting
00:21:36
back between. You know we have Salerno from
00:21:39
the one angle and then we get go back to Salerno from Damian
00:21:43
Loss's angle with this chick that he's with sitting at the
00:21:47
with their some Michelin star restaurant, which I wish I was
00:21:51
at. I don't know.
00:21:52
Like we need to get into the Damian loss of it all.
00:21:55
Like what you do, how you feel of him as a character too.
00:21:57
We we do. We have to talk to Damian loss
00:22:00
of it all and that prologue. Can we stay in Afghanistan
00:22:04
though? Because you're not kidding, that
00:22:06
fake out was epic. When the first scene of Mitch
00:22:11
rap and the guys, they're randomly spraying bullets at
00:22:14
basically an abandoned house and he's like, hey, let me put a few
00:22:17
into the animal through over here for no reason.
00:22:20
I'm like, what am I supposed to read into this?
00:22:22
Do they just suck now? I was like.
00:22:24
Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought I was like, what?
00:22:26
They're all washed up. I was like, are they just
00:22:27
shooting up a house, not knowing if guys are inside like I was?
00:22:32
Like, are we going there? And here's the thing, we were
00:22:35
kept dangling on that string until the chopper landed for the
00:22:40
X Ville when the dudes got into the chopper.
00:22:44
And then as it takes off, they will roll out the other side.
00:22:48
I lost it. I was like, that is the cool.
00:22:50
That is just super, super cool. And they were yelling loud
00:22:53
enough for the villagers to hear them.
00:22:55
You know that. Oh, we didn't find the
00:22:57
insurgents. They're not here.
00:22:58
Let's go, guys. Didn't find anything here it
00:23:01
was. We should leave.
00:23:02
It was downright fun. Yeah, you know, like I said,
00:23:06
like just the confusion of the writing led to me being as a
00:23:11
reader, being confused, like what the hell is going on?
00:23:13
And then it clicks and you're like, all right, Mitch has got
00:23:16
this. It draws you in.
00:23:18
And he sneaks up on him, right? He he's, he's dressed, he's
00:23:22
gone, he's gone native. You know, he can.
00:23:25
That's always been his advantage, right?
00:23:28
That he can he can blend in in these areas.
00:23:32
It's we harken back to the very first novel, American Assassin,
00:23:36
when they talk about not the first novel, but the first time
00:23:37
we meet Mitch chronologically. Yeah, he's supposed to be this
00:23:41
guy who, the reason that he's tapped is because he can blend
00:23:45
in so well. It's like transfer power.
00:23:47
Mitch, right when we meet him. Yeah, the old beggar.
00:23:50
Yeah, the old beggar on the streets.
00:23:52
Yeah, exactly. That's another nod, Another one
00:23:55
of these subtle nods to Vince and early rap.
00:23:59
It's incredible. And then how that scene
00:24:02
culminates, I mean, that is almost equally as enthralling.
00:24:07
And again, when he's approaching these Taliban guys, it's very,
00:24:14
it's very deep. He's talking about you're not
00:24:17
the enemy anymore. That quote I read before, I
00:24:20
don't want to kill you guys. I might.
00:24:21
My beef in America's beef is no longer with the Taliban because
00:24:24
unfortunately our government made the decision, The people
00:24:28
essentially made the decision that they're going to have to
00:24:30
listen to the will of the Taliban.
00:24:31
You know, they're not going to form an insurgency anymore
00:24:34
against them. And that's what it is.
00:24:36
And raps kind of accepting that chapter of his life, that
00:24:39
chapter of American history, which is kind of hard for him,
00:24:43
but he's doing that as he's also trying to free these hostages.
00:24:48
So he's still completing the mission.
00:24:49
Irene even says, I'm sorry I sent you into a trap, but we had
00:24:53
to get, we had to get him right. Like, you ultimately came up
00:24:56
with a plan to do it, but I don't know the agency.
00:24:59
Oh dude. And then this is really
00:25:02
interesting. Irene is trying to sort through
00:25:06
who she can trust still in the intelligence game.
00:25:11
I like that was cool. And that's something for Don to
00:25:14
really pick up. Right into I wanted, I thought,
00:25:18
that novel. I thought that this novel was
00:25:19
going to be about that I wanted. Yeah, that makes complete sense
00:25:24
and I don't know. I didn't like the fact that kind
00:25:27
of off book she was installed reinstalled as the that's my
00:25:32
biggest pet peeve or biggest qualm with the first half is
00:25:38
just this one liner with Irene back in charge of the CIAI was
00:25:42
like really. Yeah, because that was the whole
00:25:46
thing was like she's she might not go back, you know, she's
00:25:48
happy being Nicholas Ward's, you know, whatever, you know, like.
00:25:54
But then just to go on 180 and pull the back.
00:25:57
I guess Kyle felt like he had to do that.
00:25:59
But I don't know, where'd Big Nick go?
00:26:01
Where's Big Nikki dubs? Like, we love that guy in anime
00:26:06
at the gates. We loved him.
00:26:08
I don't. Yeah, I think that Kyle just got
00:26:10
tired of, you know, there's there's times like, you know,
00:26:14
we've analyzed enough books to realize when authors just
00:26:18
aren't. In love with a character they've
00:26:21
written anymore, You know, is it that or is it the circumstances?
00:26:26
I feel like if we ever get the Kyle Mills biopic, which Chris,
00:26:29
I think, I think you'd make a great Kyle Mills on screen here.
00:26:32
So let's fancast for the Kyle Mills biopic.
00:26:40
I just want to interview Kyle. I want to sit down and interview
00:26:42
him and talk about the entire experience.
00:26:44
Because I think you know, not now, not now, like in the end,
00:26:48
but like. Five years from now, I would
00:26:51
love to sit down with Kyle. You know, I have like a a
00:26:53
dateline where you know, like a like a where we talk about 60
00:26:59
minutes or we talk about what he felt taking over for a major
00:27:05
popular author after his death. And then what he felt, why he
00:27:10
felt that he needed. You know, now was the time to
00:27:13
leave. And then also all the all the
00:27:15
pressures of just writing and you know.
00:27:18
Coming up with his ideas and having a change on the fly, you
00:27:21
know, I would love to get that in insider information and I
00:27:25
think you put your finger on it, that the enemy at the Gates,
00:27:29
Nicholas Ward, Mike Nash and all the craziness that ensued right
00:27:35
after that. He could have been a turning
00:27:37
point, an inflection point in his, I don't know, just his
00:27:42
comfort, comfortability with having authority over the the
00:27:47
the stories. I I don't know it.
00:27:49
I just feel like the rewrites. That was when we first start
00:27:51
hearing like about rewrites and then with this one, right, we
00:27:53
heard about the Wagner group and all that going on.
00:27:55
He he had to do some edits and in in some other ones in
00:27:58
between. I'm sure the editing process as
00:28:00
well was very, very burdensome and overbearing.
00:28:03
I really do wonder from a from an outsider's view, like what
00:28:08
what that did to him. You know, just psychologically,
00:28:11
as an author, as an artist, right, As a creative, as a
00:28:14
creative. Like to have so much pressure of
00:28:17
fandom, editors, publishing house, whoever, whatever voice
00:28:22
is, is in the arena. Not just talking to you, but
00:28:26
like, it must feel like screaming at you, you know?
00:28:29
I'm not saying this happened, but just how that must feel.
00:28:32
Like, I imagine at school, like I'm getting so much criticism
00:28:35
from parents about something over a lesson.
00:28:37
Like it might not be a big deal, but it feels like you're just
00:28:40
getting attacked from all sides, you know?
00:28:42
And you got to defuse it. I wonder, has he ever felt that
00:28:45
way? Has it ever gotten that way?
00:28:48
I don't know. Something.
00:28:49
Something with the Enemy of the Gates era, rewriting books with
00:28:53
January 6th and just it got messy, wouldn't you say?
00:28:58
It got it got dicey. Yeah, it's it's a hard time to
00:29:00
be a thriller, you know? Political spy and and not to go,
00:29:06
you either embrace it and go political and do your own stance
00:29:09
or you if you want to be this toe the line kind of author that
00:29:15
wants to be able to sell to everybody then it then it's
00:29:19
tough. It's very tough and that's that.
00:29:21
That honestly is a sad thing that like that authors have to
00:29:24
be walking on, you know, pins and needles essentially to to
00:29:29
not piss off 50% of their audience, you know?
00:29:33
In either direction, you know. In either direction, not, not to
00:29:35
say of anything, It's just it's very strange.
00:29:38
It's very strange. I don't know.
00:29:39
Well, it won't be revealed until 15 years from now when you're on
00:29:42
60 Minutes with Kyle or we see his biopic in, you know, 4D,
00:29:47
whatever super IMAX is by then. So you know it's it's I would
00:29:52
not even Kyle. I would love to just talk to
00:29:54
Jack Carr, Brad Thor. Like, you know, you know, you
00:29:58
should start a podcast where you're able to do that.
00:30:01
It would have to be off mic though.
00:30:02
It would have to be like you know something, you know, the
00:30:04
the The X-Files, the the hidden tapes where they could I just
00:30:08
just love to, you know be a fly on the wall during the editorial
00:30:12
process to see like how much Emily Bessler actually writes
00:30:16
these books. You know or or you know, how
00:30:19
much sway various factors have in choosing these things.
00:30:25
You know, it's it's to me, it's like the author.
00:30:30
Writes it and then that's that's what happens, you know?
00:30:32
But I I know that's not what happens.
00:30:34
You know what's cool? This whole conversation came out
00:30:37
of a banger of dialogue that Kyle wrote between rap and some
00:30:42
Taliban dudes around a bonfire in the Hindu Kush.
00:30:45
Like all of that and him talking about like, what America is and
00:30:49
who the enemy is. Getting out of the game.
00:30:51
Where is home? What's my priorities?
00:30:54
We just went on that tangent, all because of that campfire
00:30:56
scene in Afghanistan, like, which was literally like 6 lines
00:31:00
of dialogue back and forth. Yeah, see, that's what Kyle.
00:31:05
That's what Kyle does to us. You want a little behind the
00:31:08
scenes, right? Well, guess who's operating
00:31:10
behind the scenes while rap is talking to the Taliban guys?
00:31:16
Scott. Motherfucking Coleman, baby.
00:31:18
He is rescuing the hostages. How badass was that of him
00:31:23
sneaking up in that guard killing him or?
00:31:25
Well, no, no, he's very hesitant.
00:31:28
He doesn't want to kill him, doesn't want to kill him, so
00:31:30
instead he just, you know, smashes his head with a rock.
00:31:33
Although there's a great line there, says Coleman was more
00:31:37
ambivalent but he still had no desire to kill this kid.
00:31:40
Unfortunately his non lethal tool kit was nearly non
00:31:43
existent. That's some great alliteration.
00:31:46
His non lethal toolkit was nearly non existent.
00:31:49
That just flows beautifully. Well, and and who was the guy
00:31:53
that he called to do the to defuse the bomb?
00:31:56
Because he didn't say the name, you know.
00:31:58
Are you serious? No.
00:31:59
Hold on that. We don't have evidence that
00:32:02
that's got to be Marcus, bro. Don't.
00:32:04
I figured it. I figured it was because he said
00:32:06
he was playing video games. Yeah, and then he calls him
00:32:09
Swollen Dick. But Marcus doesn't defuse bombs,
00:32:15
No, but Marcus could. Look up the schematics for the
00:32:17
lock. OK, OK, OK, wait.
00:32:20
He didn't use Marcus's name. In my mind, I was 100% dead set.
00:32:25
That that was Marcus. I I might be wrong.
00:32:27
No, we gotta find this. All right, let's see what
00:32:29
chapter we look talking. We're on Chapter 3.
00:32:33
Is it that early? I I literally have to know if
00:32:40
there's text evidence that proves that it's Marcus.
00:32:42
Because if there's any Gray, Gray room, if that's Marcus or
00:32:45
not, I'm Oh my God. I'm my mind is blown.
00:32:50
I'm almost positive he doesn't. He doesn't say his name.
00:32:53
He doesn't use his name. All right.
00:32:56
Is that because the video game comment, Kyle just knows is
00:33:00
enough. It has to be, has to be.
00:33:04
Marcus, I was about to say to you another callback was that we
00:33:07
get Marcus. Marcus DuMont, baby.
00:33:11
All right, here we go. Third page 34.
00:33:14
He pulled out a sat phone and selected a number from the list
00:33:17
of people he had on call that night.
00:33:20
I'm in the fucking Hindu Kush staring at a bomb.
00:33:22
Don't get your panties wadded up, man.
00:33:24
I was just pausing my game. Oh, it's gotta be Coleman.
00:33:28
Could picture the man sitting in his basement holding a game
00:33:31
controller surrounded by empty beer cans and Dorito bags.
00:33:36
OK, we're asking. Kyle.
00:33:37
Kyle was. That is swollen little Dick.
00:33:40
Marcus, I need to know. The puffy little prick was the
00:33:45
best in the business, and not by a little dude.
00:33:48
More alliteration. The puffy little prick, the
00:33:53
swollen little Dick had done it again.
00:33:55
This is tough, Kyle. You got to stop it.
00:33:57
You got to stop it. This is just this is killing me.
00:34:01
When I read that Coleman, Mark, Coleman, Marcus scene, I was all
00:34:06
over the place. Did you pack your padlock, Shim?
00:34:10
I'm Does Marcus give it back that much?
00:34:15
Yeah, that's what I that's what parted me for not packing my
00:34:17
padlock Shim. That's what also makes me feel
00:34:21
like, is he sassy like that in his latter days?
00:34:24
I don't know. I feel like wouldn't he have
00:34:26
just said Marcus if it was Marcus?
00:34:29
Dude, this is a great debate to Marcus or not to Marcus.
00:34:33
That is the question. Kyle would have to have
00:34:36
deliberately not used his name just to fuck with us.
00:34:40
Damn it, Kyle. Damn it, I don't want that
00:34:43
biopic anymore. I'm not watching a movie of you
00:34:48
not watching you on 60 Minutes with Chris.
00:34:51
That'd be sick. And I was the host in 60
00:34:53
minutes. Dude, can you please remind me
00:34:56
when we interview Kyle to get an answer on this?
00:34:59
But if I forget, I'm literally going to kick myself.
00:35:02
We have to. We have to.
00:35:04
That might be the number one question I want to ask him now.
00:35:09
All right. I think we've gone on longer
00:35:11
than this. Then we do our rant about
00:35:12
covers. Probably time to move.
00:35:14
Yeah, probably. Probably.
00:35:18
All right. So do you want to talk a little
00:35:20
bit about like the plot of this book, like in terms of the
00:35:24
Captagon, the, you know, the bus gone bad or the shipment gone
00:35:29
bad in Italy, how Damian loss is involved?
00:35:32
Like essentially why? You know, the premise of this
00:35:36
entire novel is that rap has to honor his favor from that last
00:35:42
book. Yeah, with Gustavo Marroquis
00:35:44
when he calls him in to save Oath of Loyalty, to save
00:35:47
Claudia, or to find the guy who took out the hit on Claudia.
00:35:51
On Claudia, yes. That's that's a quick calling of
00:35:54
the favor, you know. Yeah, I mean I guess like Kyle
00:35:57
has to. It's his last book.
00:35:59
So he's, you know, I I feel like this, If Kyle was continuing, it
00:36:04
would have been later. It would have been later, yeah,
00:36:06
for sure. Claudia even says I I knew he'd
00:36:09
call in his marker at some point, but I didn't think he'd
00:36:12
be this soon. Right?
00:36:14
And none of us thought things would be this soon.
00:36:17
AK, Kyle, Kyle leaving us and George being kicked out.
00:36:21
Delete that one. We have no evidence of that
00:36:25
people. No evidence.
00:36:26
Speculating George was kicked out and This is why we don't
00:36:29
have a sponsor. I I I hope that George wasn't
00:36:33
kicked out. If I find if I find out that
00:36:35
George wasn't kicked out, I may. If George was kicked out, I
00:36:38
might stop covering these books. All I could say is on the Vince
00:36:42
Flynn website, I I appreciated the letter from George that said
00:36:45
I felt the time it the time is now to pass on the torch and the
00:36:48
fact that he he wrote that gives me some comfort.
00:36:52
Yeah, so give me your thoughts about Damian Losa, Cap the gun,
00:36:57
all that stuff. I actually want to separate the
00:36:58
two because I really kind of like Damian Losa.
00:37:01
Yet I'm not sure. I'm so bought into the early
00:37:06
chapters about the drug trade, for example, I I don't know, I
00:37:09
thought the prologue was a little weak.
00:37:12
From the prologue to the dinner scene with the woman, we're not
00:37:17
my favorite part of the Captagon drug trade story yet.
00:37:22
Semyonov experimenting on the prisoners I find really
00:37:28
interesting. Like it has that twisted effed
00:37:31
up nature to it? I'm actually curious right?
00:37:34
Like could any element be of this be going on in whatever
00:37:38
drug trials or even like other countries that are trying to do
00:37:42
actual medical research? Is is sometimes this kind of
00:37:45
stuff happening under the radar to get results?
00:37:49
Even not just criminal empires but how much are they in bed
00:37:51
with real governments and and organizations.
00:37:54
So it's kind of creepy. So I I liked the drug trade once
00:37:58
we got to Syria because raps in Syria negotiating with people
00:38:03
undercover an alias, which is I I found really cool.
00:38:07
And then Semianov were cutting back and forth to him
00:38:10
experimenting on his prisoners and hearing how he's such a
00:38:12
pompous jerk. I'm digging that stuff the first
00:38:16
few times we brought up Captigon getting it explained to us.
00:38:20
I don't know if it captured me early on.
00:38:21
Would you feel the same way? Yeah, it wasn't until we kind of
00:38:25
got, I think it was Chapter 16 that Seminov kind of like laid
00:38:29
out his entire plan. And I fully understood what, you
00:38:34
know, the goal of this was in the beginning.
00:38:35
I was just like, alright, what is this drug?
00:38:37
Is it, it's just supposed to be more potent than fentanyl or you
00:38:40
know, it's, it's a cheaper version of that, right?
00:38:42
You know, is the Middle Eastern version of the Purdue family,
00:38:45
like, you know, where where are we going here?
00:38:48
But then once. I started to understand, all
00:38:50
right he Why does he have these prisoners okay And then what
00:38:53
what what are they doing with test wise?
00:38:55
And then finally they just literally lay it all out on the
00:38:57
floor with the one scientist saying they cracked the
00:39:00
withdrawal code. And they they've been able to
00:39:03
force these people who are holdouts to now grovel at their
00:39:07
feet to just get their daily dose.
00:39:09
And then he breaks down, you know, like literally, you get
00:39:12
all the exposition in terms of what the drug will do 6. 12
00:39:17
months from now, once they've released it out to the world,
00:39:20
it's like really like you get this like sense of fear and
00:39:23
like, oh shit, like this is what Mitch is going to have to stop,
00:39:25
you know? Yeah.
00:39:26
And that that was great. I felt, I felt like, all right,
00:39:29
now we have this world ending, you know, potential event that
00:39:33
Mitch has to deal with. And I understand why we're going
00:39:37
down this route with Mitch. But at the same time, you know,
00:39:39
I realize that like, Mitch doesn't always have to be in a
00:39:41
story where it's end of the world.
00:39:44
So again I find myself. In this weird position of
00:39:50
liking, disliking, no, not disliking.
00:39:52
Just like liking, not loving, loving, not liking.
00:39:56
You know, various portions. That's it's it's strange.
00:39:59
I'm I'm with you completely. Especially your point on I spent
00:40:04
the first bunch of chapters thinking all right this is
00:40:07
opioids and fentanyl and then you give it a different name you
00:40:09
know big whoop. And it was like, OK, the
00:40:13
European drug trade. Kind of interesting, but I guess
00:40:16
you're going with the refugee crisis and poorest borders and
00:40:18
how easy it is for Middle Eastern organizations to pump
00:40:22
this stuff in and make a profit off it.
00:40:24
OK, sure, I get it. Know when Seminov reveals all
00:40:28
that other stuff he's doing with the game plan to use it in
00:40:31
America? His his long game is to to get
00:40:34
it into the US and we we become zombies, essentially, right?
00:40:37
We become slaves. I feel like that's way worse
00:40:40
than what's going on with fentanyl because you're going to
00:40:44
get occasional users, but all of a sudden they're brain dead.
00:40:47
It could cause a permanent psychosis and all different
00:40:49
sorts of mental disorders. And they'll be begging at your
00:40:52
feet for it, even after just a few doses.
00:40:55
Like, OK, so this is, this is a step up.
00:40:57
You know, this is steroids on steroids, you know, fentanyl,
00:41:00
steroids. So I'm like, OK, now I'm buying
00:41:02
into it. And that's his long game.
00:41:05
Took me a while to get there. So I'm I'm just being honest
00:41:07
like a buy in score here. I think I bought into all the
00:41:11
action scenes in terms of the writing.
00:41:14
We all know Kyle can write a knockout action scene.
00:41:17
Maybe that's what we should talk about next.
00:41:19
A couple of these other action scenes we haven't got to like
00:41:22
the one everything's building towards in Syria.
00:41:25
So all that I got bought in on, I just don't know how much I buy
00:41:28
into the early chapters on there's a drug, there's these
00:41:31
pills we're fighting over. Who can dominate the European
00:41:34
market, And are the Arabs going to be able to do it, or can a
00:41:38
Mexican drug Lord corner the market?
00:41:42
It's almost like okay, who cares?
00:41:43
But then once you bring in rap, once you bring in the Russians,
00:41:46
and once we give a reason for him to go to Syria, I'm in so up
00:41:52
and down. So there's some up and downs
00:41:53
here. Yeah.
00:41:54
But I think like what saves the first part for me is these touch
00:41:59
points we get with Rap and Claudia and you know raps
00:42:02
different conversations either in Afghanistan or in Syria.
00:42:05
So like that's why like there's parts of this where I'm like I
00:42:08
really, I'm loving it and I'm digging it and then you have
00:42:12
this like backdrop of things and I'm just I'm not vibing with.
00:42:15
So, you know, that's why it's very mixed bag the first half of
00:42:18
this novel for me. So, yeah, but you're right.
00:42:21
The fact that it's broken up by the BBQ scene, come on, it's
00:42:25
Kyle's wheelhouse, man. When he's coming home from the
00:42:30
Afghan op and he's rolling up into Manassas, into the complex,
00:42:34
checking all the cars, you know, he knows everybody who's going
00:42:37
to be there. He's perturbed, right, that it
00:42:40
turns into this big gathering it.
00:42:43
It's so quintessential. Mitch getting home from these
00:42:46
OPS has a lot on his mind, and he's got a not battle, Claudia,
00:42:50
but Claudia's like, go outside, talk to people.
00:42:52
Yeah, start the grill up. To grill, Yeah, he's got a
00:42:55
battle, Adam, you know, hitting him.
00:42:57
Ask people what they want to drink.
00:42:58
Yeah, yeah. He calls her the Oopa Loopa.
00:43:02
He's telling her to start the grill.
00:43:03
She's like, I want to go bike riding.
00:43:04
You said we go on the trails and he promises he'll get them
00:43:07
bikes. He calls her a broken record and
00:43:10
she's like, what's a record? But she calls him Dad.
00:43:14
Yes. Yes.
00:43:16
That was a big thing. When she says dad and he like,
00:43:18
winces a little bit, she's like he was not, He's not used to it.
00:43:22
He's like. Every now and most of the time
00:43:24
she calls me Mitch, but every now and then she calls me Dad
00:43:27
and it's just it's not doesn't feel right to him.
00:43:30
I love those moments. You know, like I'm I'm.
00:43:32
I hope that Don continues down this path and and uses those
00:43:38
touch points because those are the kind of things that Kyle has
00:43:40
brought into this novel, the series that I love.
00:43:45
I agree. The Anna Mitch relationship.
00:43:48
The Anna, Claudia, Mitch relationship is amazing.
00:43:52
And anyone who out there who says they don't like it, you can
00:43:55
stop listening to this podcast. Yeah, it sets it apart.
00:43:59
It it, and it's got to stay. It's got to stay.
00:44:03
It's the difference maker to me. There's not much in the MIT trap
00:44:08
universe at this point that sets it apart like it is what I was
00:44:11
trying to say before. The actions going to be great
00:44:14
across the thriller verse. Crazy plots and geopolitical set
00:44:17
pieces going to be awesome across the thriller verse.
00:44:20
So many people you know are are up in their game and doing it
00:44:22
well. The difference maker in this
00:44:25
series is what Kyle did with those characters you just named,
00:44:29
the way he put them together and gives us little moments like
00:44:33
that. The Oompa Loompa line to me
00:44:36
makes this series and Mitch Rapp right now very different.
00:44:40
You know when Vince Flynn was writing Mitch Rapp, whole bunch
00:44:42
of other things made it stand out and made it different and
00:44:45
and differentiated it. Right now those things are the
00:44:48
differentiator, even smaller scenes, Joe Maslik and and Mitch
00:44:53
cracking beers trying to fix the fence like.
00:44:55
Yeah, those little moments mean so damn much to me.
00:44:59
And. Especially when you know their
00:45:01
relationship as a fan who's read entire books and you understand,
00:45:05
Joe, what they've been through. What the two of them have been
00:45:08
through, he didn't trust him. Yeah.
00:45:11
Exactly like Mas let him down, he failed on a few OPS.
00:45:16
That's why you know, lifetime readers or series on readers get
00:45:22
the added benefit that you know someone who just picked up this
00:45:25
novel would. You know, that conversation is
00:45:27
perfectly fine. It's in the secondary character.
00:45:29
He's explained perfectly. He's funny, he's goofy.
00:45:32
But. Understanding the deeper
00:45:35
relationship between the two just adds that much more to it.
00:45:38
And I feel like that's something that's Kyle has brought to this.
00:45:41
So I I agree. I agree.
00:45:43
And Kyle almost double s down on doing all this.
00:45:46
I feel like that BBQ scene was like a statement, You know, this
00:45:51
is what I I've done and did for the series, and I salute you,
00:45:55
Kyle. I stand by it.
00:45:57
He even writes Claudia and Mitch's relationship.
00:46:00
He's he's kind of given a nod to the haters.
00:46:02
There's a lot of Claudia haters out there who who didn't buy
00:46:06
Kyle's move to put them together and and we've rehashed it a
00:46:09
million times. Go back and read everything from
00:46:12
consent to kill to the last man and and you will realize what
00:46:16
Kyle did in The Survivor is absolutely epic and on point to
00:46:20
what Vince would have wanted if the clues are there.
00:46:23
But he double s down on it and he and he writes this quote,
00:46:25
which I 100% standby and I will be a keyboard warrior.
00:46:31
You go into battle on the socials respectfully,
00:46:35
respectfully against anyone you know who's not shipping Claudia
00:46:38
and Mitch. So here's what he wrote.
00:46:39
Quote The fact that they both had so much baggage was part of
00:46:43
the reason their relationship worked.
00:46:45
They tended toward the same wellworn fatalism and neither
00:46:49
had any right to judge. When they were together, their
00:46:52
pasts felt like they canceled each other out and made the
00:46:55
future a little clearer. Kyle, that line to me is so
00:47:01
important for what you've done for readers, what you've done
00:47:04
for the characters, what you've done for Vince's legacy with
00:47:07
where he left us in The Last Man, it it's so meaningful.
00:47:12
It justifies his and Claudia's relationship.
00:47:15
You know, like him and Anna didn't work and ultimately
00:47:19
that's why she got, you know, sorry to say it, but ultimately
00:47:23
that's why she got killed because.
00:47:25
He he knew he he could never have that life with her, with
00:47:28
it, with a normal human being, he can.
00:47:30
With Claudia could. Have been anyone else.
00:47:32
Take a character. Could have been anybody.
00:47:34
But the fact the reason why him and Claudia makes sense is
00:47:40
because of that paragraph. So it's it.
00:47:44
It's perfect. It's perfect, and it it makes
00:47:48
even better the Epilogue of Consent to Kill.
00:47:51
It makes the epilogue even better in my opinion.
00:47:55
The fact You can read the epilogue to Consent to Kill now
00:47:59
with the understanding of where Mitch and Claudia are in their
00:48:02
lives. And it's just.
00:48:04
It makes even more sense, it just.
00:48:07
But at this it's paradoxical because it doesn't.
00:48:09
It shouldn't make any sense. Yet the last 10-15 years,
00:48:13
whatever of Mitch Rapp history gives it sense to something that
00:48:17
is nonsensical is just a perfect paradox.
00:48:20
Right? It's art.
00:48:21
Again, we will say it. It is what makes most thriller
00:48:24
Summer Beach reads just for fun into art in my opinion.
00:48:31
Oh, and plus we got a Rory Nash name drop Bang called that one.
00:48:34
He's coming back, man. He's coming.
00:48:36
Yeah, he's coming back. He's coming back.
00:48:39
I'm Tom likes to like, you know, hit up these younger characters.
00:48:43
So maybe Rory Nash, am I allowed to say this?
00:48:46
We we've already been doing a little armchair authoring.
00:48:50
Armchair quarterbacking? Sure, go ahead.
00:48:53
I got to be honest, if I want to see anything in the next 5-10
00:48:57
books in the Mitch Rapp series, it's Rory Nash.
00:49:00
Got to play a big role. And you don't kill Claudia.
00:49:04
Do not. Anna Riley.
00:49:05
Claudia, I'm. I'm sorry.
00:49:07
Like it could be an easy route out to do what?
00:49:10
Consent to kill did and free up Mitch and be like, oh, Mitch is
00:49:12
back in the game? No, no, that would be a cardinal
00:49:16
sin to me. So that I'm not trying to say
00:49:18
anything, not making up anybody's minds.
00:49:20
But in my opinion, if you try to just repeat consent to kill just
00:49:26
so that you can make it easier to write a Mitch Rapp story
00:49:29
without the baggage of his family, you you don't kill
00:49:32
Claudia and Anna. You you do to me.
00:49:34
That would be the cardinal sin of the next 5 to 10 books.
00:49:38
But again, who? What do I know?
00:49:40
I'm. I'm just a schmo.
00:49:41
But that's just my personal gut feeling.
00:49:44
I got to see a Tommy Kennedy. I got to see a Tommy Kennedy
00:49:46
dude and a Rory Nash involved dude.
00:49:50
Rory Nash finds out that Mitch killed his dad.
00:49:54
Like, or you know, like not like had a dude.
00:49:56
You know, like, that's the next big moment that that literally
00:50:00
is going to be the next defining thing in the series, whenever it
00:50:03
comes. It could be years from now.
00:50:05
That's the big one, though. Yeah, that's the big and Kyle
00:50:09
created that. See.
00:50:10
Kyle made that possibility. He did.
00:50:13
That's why. That's amazing.
00:50:15
That's just that's the long game.
00:50:17
That's the long game. When that day comes, is going to
00:50:20
be absolutely epic. Shannon too.
00:50:24
When Shannon gets the news, baby, what's his name?
00:50:28
Charlie. Charlie.
00:50:30
Yeah, I was kind of confused. They said that Charlie was
00:50:32
sleeping on the counter, like he's two years old.
00:50:34
Two years old. Don't.
00:50:35
Don't really sleep on the counter.
00:50:37
Anna's still 7, by the way. Yeah, I know, I know.
00:50:41
No, I don't. Is there evidence of that?
00:50:43
I'm not sure. I'm just.
00:50:44
She's always 7. Anna will always seven.
00:50:47
It's kind of funny at this point.
00:50:48
I I enjoy it. He said like the one thing
00:50:51
happened like two months ago I was like, holy, like everything
00:50:54
has happened to Mitch in the last like seven months.
00:50:57
Like so. But well, yeah, what's his name?
00:50:59
Terrence Adams still has three years.
00:51:01
So the everything we know with the cooks was all within his
00:51:05
first year as. President One year, Yeah.
00:51:07
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Anything.
00:51:11
Else you want to talk about And this was sad.
00:51:13
No dude, this was a lot of fun. I think we have a lot of
00:51:17
questions. We'll talk about the action.
00:51:20
We'll talk about the action more with the with the scorecard.
00:51:22
Yeah, we'll talk about the action.
00:51:23
Do you think we should save for next time, or should we get out
00:51:26
of the way this really incredible sneaking into Syria
00:51:30
at the border and then the op negotiating with Suleiman?
00:51:33
Yeah. No, we could talk, we can touch
00:51:34
on that. I mean that part of the story
00:51:36
like it's, it's. It's jiving, like it's clicking,
00:51:39
you know, you could definitely tell, like I was burning through
00:51:42
some chapters, you know, it's got me page turning.
00:51:46
We're getting wrapped like in his element and even if it's
00:51:50
even if it's in a place we've never been before.
00:51:52
With rap, you can definitely tell he's comfortable at the,
00:51:54
but at the same time he can't seem too comfortable because he
00:51:58
is just supposed to be his lawyer from Canada.
00:52:00
And so it's, it's funny. It's funny to see him operating
00:52:02
in within these certain parameters that he's been given,
00:52:06
you know, with his cover. Yeah, absolutely.
00:52:08
And that happens with a number of people, you know, with the
00:52:10
driver who's take him in, with the smugglers who are putting
00:52:13
him over the wall and the fence. And then even when he's sitting
00:52:16
down negotiating and dude start pulling out guns and he hears
00:52:19
firing, he's really got to be operating on different levels to
00:52:23
know what he can and can't show and to whom so that they don't
00:52:27
evaluate him and and come to the wrong conclusions.
00:52:30
And then the way it builds up with the Syrian troops coming
00:52:33
in, but they're holding off because they don't want to
00:52:37
intervene just yet. But then the Russian guy finds
00:52:40
out about it and he goes, tell them to go in or I'm going to
00:52:42
hang. Every last one of them is just
00:52:45
building the tension. And then when the building
00:52:47
actually crumbles and he puts Suleiman through the wall and he
00:52:51
and he falls down like what, three stories?
00:52:54
And then the security guys are coming up the stairs.
00:52:56
Rap has to jump building to building.
00:52:59
This is the scene that felt most bond like that opening scene in
00:53:03
Mexico City of was that Specter. I I just I had that feel here.
00:53:08
Combine that with like a Beirut scene from American Assassin.
00:53:12
All the fields were coming at me from your bonds and your early
00:53:15
raps. It was really cool and
00:53:18
eventually I'm like. Jason Bourne, right.
00:53:20
I'm like, we could just have rap get out of this.
00:53:22
We know he can escape and we know he can fight these guys
00:53:24
off. Either one of those are options,
00:53:26
but they blow his cover. So what is the?
00:53:30
Because if he gets out, they know he's not just a lawyer,
00:53:33
right? He had skills.
00:53:36
Then he ultimately decides, I've seen things like this go down
00:53:40
where they just opened fire on the crowd.
00:53:42
Like if the crowd is starting to get raucous, they're throwing
00:53:45
rocks at soldiers, the Russians and the Syrians and the Syrian
00:53:49
back to military with Russian equipment is not just going to
00:53:52
sit back. This thing he knows is going to
00:53:54
boil over. And so to kind of diffuse the
00:53:56
situation so none of these protesters or rebels lose their
00:54:00
lives. He goes, I'll turn myself in
00:54:02
because once I do that, the Syrians and I get out of here,
00:54:05
right? The army will just leave and
00:54:07
things will cool down. But he's a fraction of a second
00:54:10
late making that decision. So he sacrifices himself, gives
00:54:15
himself up as Fournier to the Syrians, but as they're driving
00:54:20
out, someone makes that shot. And once a Syrian soldier gets
00:54:23
hit, they opened fire on the crowd.
00:54:26
They just are mowing them down. So what's his sacrifice for not?
00:54:30
That's what I'm wondering now. It's sad in the end, you know,
00:54:34
right where we left off. Yeah, that the whole crumbling
00:54:39
building scene is very cool. Like in you know that even that
00:54:43
side character we got with the museum director and how he's,
00:54:46
you know, ultimately dies but Mitch feels bad for him because
00:54:50
you know he's not the one who. He didn't choose his life.
00:54:52
He he was forced into it. He he actually, he he says like,
00:54:56
I meant that I was going to get Damien to give him a couple
00:54:58
$1 for his museum. And yeah, but now, you know,
00:55:01
hopefully in the end you know what we get in the epilogue that
00:55:05
Damien gave this, you know, gave some money to this museum.
00:55:08
But you know those are the little characters that you, you
00:55:11
buy into, you you like because it's funny, like there there's
00:55:15
this one line. I think I highlighted it where.
00:55:18
This guy is just going on talking like he's ohh, you know
00:55:21
it's gonna be €1.00 or like whatever the equivalent is and
00:55:24
then within a second he starts rattling off like fluent drug
00:55:30
cartel like language. And Mitch is like, all right I'm
00:55:33
dealing with someone completely different right now.
00:55:35
You know like the way Kyle writes that too is is very good.
00:55:39
You know, Kyle's been doing. Every time he's hinted in this
00:55:43
Latin American drug trade, he's. He's he's liked it.
00:55:47
He's he's done done it very well.
00:55:49
So I, you know, I like the character of Damian Loessa and
00:55:52
I'm, I'm intrigued to see where we go in the second-half of this
00:55:55
book. And I'm glad you brought up the
00:55:56
museum director. That dude was awesome.
00:55:59
He had no business fighting this war.
00:56:00
He really was wanted to be an academic, teach people about his
00:56:04
culture, his history, his town. And yet like we saw in Deadfall,
00:56:08
the innocent people just trying to make their lives get caught
00:56:12
up in the throes of war and rebellion and and it's sad.
00:56:17
And I and I'm glad that personal element is here and I'm glad
00:56:19
Mitch feels that personal element even when he's got a
00:56:23
mission and a job to do that that felt so deadfall in in
00:56:29
Ukraine and all the different people we met in Deadfall from
00:56:32
the cab driver to scaling the wall to the museum director.
00:56:35
It felt really it felt Deadfall in a really good way.
00:56:39
The best parts of that book I felt were coming through so hot.
00:56:41
Take so far chapters one through 17, the first quarter of this
00:56:47
book a little tough to get going, but the second quarter of
00:56:52
the book, chapters what, 10 through 17 absolute fire,
00:56:57
absolute master class and and that makes me curious for what
00:57:01
happens in the second-half. Yeah, it's it's not even like
00:57:05
that. It was just like was a little
00:57:07
stop start, you know, like like one chapter was fire and the
00:57:10
next one I was like what are we doing here?
00:57:12
And then, but then as soon as we get going like Mitch.
00:57:16
On scene in Syria. Like we're we're just we're
00:57:19
cooking now, absolutely. We're rolling them.
00:57:22
Love it. Very, very intrigued to see
00:57:23
where we go in the second-half. Let's do it.
00:57:27
All right. Well, so next time we come to
00:57:28
you, we will be bringing you either our second-half of the
00:57:31
novel or our interview with Kyle.
00:57:34
Again, we need to thank our patrons, our special operator
00:57:36
Sherry F, our special Agents, Daryl, Kevin, George, Matt.
00:57:40
Matt, who recently joined the The Patreon group chat.
00:57:44
Group Chat Don, Dennis, Peggy, Catherine, Ray, Bridget, Jeff
00:57:48
and Mark. Please subscribe Brighton Review
00:57:51
using Apple Podcasts. You can find us@thrillerpod.com
00:57:54
or on Twitter and Insta at Thriller Podcast.
00:57:57
And as always, just let Mitch be Mitch,
00:58:11
yo, that was a lot of fun. Even if it got dicey in the
00:58:14
middle. It did for a good reason.
00:58:17
I think so. Because you had, we had to kind
00:58:19
of get into things that were a little sticky for there for a
00:58:21
little bit. We had to, if not had to just
00:58:25
be. You can't not say it.
00:58:27
Yeah, that's. I wouldn't have said it like
00:58:30
when we first did this, like you know, you're one of this
00:58:34
podcast, but now we're, we're pot committed, bro.
00:58:38
Well, yeah, it's also I, I we've gone through this a million
00:58:43
times. And I feel like I thought I was
00:58:47
going to have to come on here and kind of call a spade a
00:58:49
spade, you know? And the fact that I got to the
00:58:54
parts of the book that were killing it and I absolutely
00:58:58
loved it, and then was able to think back and think of all
00:59:00
these small moments which actually had a bigger impact,
00:59:04
even if the story wasn't connecting for me, you know, you
00:59:07
were saying the flow wasn't there.
00:59:09
Everything that was going on outside of a few little things
00:59:12
like the Salerno Op, everything that was going on otherwise hit
00:59:16
on different levels, callbacks, Kyle, Isms, and and I'm.
00:59:20
It made me appreciate it so much and I was appreciating that as I
00:59:25
was getting to the kick ass part of the story.
00:59:27
Right. No, it's really true.
00:59:30
And I think that's what helps sometimes when you think about
00:59:33
these things as a whole as opposed to just in the moment.
00:59:36
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.