Chris and Mike review the second half of Code Red, the newest installation in the Mitch Rapp series by Vince Flynn and Kyle Mills. Be sure to stay tuned to the very end for our ThrillerPod Scorecard rating as well as how we think this book ranks among all of Kyle's Mitch Rapp books.
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00:00:12
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike, and welcome back
00:00:17
to this week's No Limits the Midtrap Podcast.
00:00:21
What's new this week, Mike? Hey, I'm just still riding high
00:00:26
from our interview with Kyle. Last night's hangout with our
00:00:30
patrons. We did a Code Red spoiler
00:00:32
hangout with some of the best Mitch rap fans in the universe.
00:00:36
I think I intended to stay on 30-40 minutes.
00:00:39
We were there, what, an hour and a half talking with them till
00:00:42
10:30 at night. Stayed up real late my way past
00:00:45
my bedtime. Dude, there's a blast though.
00:00:48
We got to talk Code Red and hear a whole plethora of opinions on
00:00:52
this book. Yeah, this has been being able
00:00:56
to do those. You know, I I really would like
00:00:59
to do more of them is one of the rate, like the best outcomes
00:01:03
that has come out of this community.
00:01:05
And I love the group chat. I love that, you know, we can,
00:01:08
you know, some days it's like really active.
00:01:11
Some weeks it's really active. You know, then it goes by and
00:01:14
then you know, people just touch back in.
00:01:15
Just to know that you have other people you can spin crazy ideas
00:01:19
with or, you know, bounce things off of or, you know, just say,
00:01:22
hey, have a good day. It's great.
00:01:24
It's been. Besides getting to spend at
00:01:27
least an hour every week with you, that's gotta be like the
00:01:30
second best thing that's come out of this podcast.
00:01:32
So thanks to all the patrons. It's so great and I was so
00:01:35
happy, Chris and Sherry told us about their meet up to our
00:01:39
patrons planned a meet up in person to meet Kyle and Don on
00:01:43
the book tour. I just thought that was so cool
00:01:46
to hear and last week. On the interview with Kyle,
00:01:49
hearing Dawn's inspiring words about what the series and what
00:01:53
Red War in particular has meant to her.
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The people we're meeting through this podcast is just really
00:01:58
making it all worth it. We we honestly and and I know we
00:02:01
say this on the mics every week. We honestly wouldn't do this
00:02:05
without the listeners and the patrons that we have.
00:02:09
Yeah, that's that's for damn sure.
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Yeah, I don't think I would have felt as compelled to keep going.
00:02:18
Like, I feel like we always had in their mind to like do all of
00:02:22
Mitch Rapp, you know, yes, at least like up until that point.
00:02:26
But like the the fact that there is this community out there that
00:02:31
actually listens to us, you know, sort of makes me wanna do
00:02:35
this every week. So keeping us going.
00:02:38
It's so true, man of many names. Kevin B Kevin Bacon.
00:02:42
Kevin be chill. He goes by many handles.
00:02:44
When he joined the chat recently, that was awesome.
00:02:46
We got Matt P jumping in. Matt P even gave us a theory.
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We kind of asked Kyle about it a little bit.
00:02:54
Maybe when we cover the transition to Don, we'll talk
00:02:56
about Matt's Matt's theory. But dude, they're they're
00:03:00
amazing. And so if you want to join this
00:03:02
community, get in on the group chat with Chris and I and
00:03:04
everyone else and join our Hangouts.
00:03:07
We are going to have a post holiday hangout.
00:03:10
Early in 2024 and we're also going to be taking ideas from
00:03:13
the patrons for our upcoming reading list for the books we're
00:03:17
going to cover on the Thriller Podcast throughout next year.
00:03:20
So planning ahead If you want to be part of that, just go ahead
00:03:24
and visit thrillerpod.com, Click on the Patreon tab to learn
00:03:28
more. And for less than the price of a
00:03:30
novel a month, you can be the reason that Chris and I get to
00:03:33
make more podcast. So come aboard.
00:03:35
We'd love to have you. And that was Kevin B last night,
00:03:39
right? That was Kevin B Yeah.
00:03:41
He was going by Kevin Bacon. Yeah.
00:03:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's gone by Kevin B.
00:03:44
Chill is a distant relative of Haley Chill in the past, so a
00:03:48
man of many names. He told us he's a you know
00:03:50
that's one of his. Might be his favorite series is
00:03:53
Chris Howdy. So yeah, alright, what do we
00:03:57
cover today, Mike? Let me tell you what we're
00:03:58
covering today. Part 2 of Code Red.
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We are finally getting to give our thoughts on this book and in
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a sense, our thoughts on. Kyle's legacy on the series as
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these are the final words that he's written, and instead of a
00:04:13
Limerick for me to open this up today, I thought I would just
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let the Limerick we left with Kyle stand.
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So if for some bizarre reason you skipped our interview with
00:04:21
Kyle last week and jumped ahead to Code Red Part 2, please,
00:04:25
please please go ahead and visit that we left Kyle with a nice
00:04:29
Limerick as a thank you for everything he's done.
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And so for Code Red, I'm going to let Kyle's final Limerick
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stand. And I don't have one for for you
00:04:37
today, but I, I wanted to propose something to you, Chris,
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as we get into this book. There's a lot of change coming,
00:04:46
a lot of change already happened, particularly around
00:04:50
the audio book of Code Red. And like I said, a lot of
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opinions from our patrons, a lot of opinions with you and I.
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Can we Chris table the audio book talk tonight and.
00:05:04
The Steven Weber introduction to the MIT rap universe.
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Is there any possibility you and I will be able to commit to
00:05:12
leaving that behind right now and just letting Kyle's work
00:05:14
stand on its own? I don't want to get bogged down
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by our opinions right now on the audio book.
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What do you think about that? Yeah, I think so.
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And I'm really happy that our interview with Kyle was actually
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before the audio book came out or the book was actually
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released because it forced me to have to read it entirely, you
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know, on my own. And I actually, I went, I've
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since gone back and relistened to some things just because I
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was intrigued to dip and dip my toe into the audio book and we
00:05:45
can say that for another time. So, yeah, I I think one, I've
00:05:52
read the book and I I, I want to just comment on what Kyle has
00:05:56
given us and that, you know, I think with time maybe our takes
00:06:02
on the audio book might change. I want to give the guy, you
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know, his fair shake. I think there's elements of it
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that I liked, elements that I didn't like.
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But you know, well, can't judge a cover by the book.
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So let's not judge an audio book by the narrator then.
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And judging a cover by the book is what we'll do at the end of
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this podcast. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:22
I think, I think we got to do that.
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Definitely want to give him a fair shake for sure.
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I did listen to the audio book twice, so I read the paper.
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Yeah, I read it fully once and I flipped through various chapters
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here and there and I read the audio book on one speed.
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Then like I do to prep for pods, I went back on 2 1/2 to 3 speed
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hoping maybe something will change hearing it in these
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different formats. And my favorite version is the
00:06:49
paper version, and sometimes with George Goodell or Armand
00:06:53
Schultz and Brad Thor and even the James Reese Jack Carr
00:06:57
series. Sometimes I like the audio book
00:07:00
a little bit more, not always and sometimes not true here.
00:07:03
So we're going to talk about the hardcover and paper print
00:07:08
edition of Code Red, and I don't think it's like liking.
00:07:12
Maybe you do like it more but I think it like sometimes the
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audio book can just elevate it yes like to that much you know
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to make the the make the book that much better by like.
00:07:22
Ray Porter Like what Ray Porter did.
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And only the dead. Yeah.
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Oh my God. Only the dead.
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Like, just it was really good reading it, but like, getting,
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getting that experience takes it to the next level, you know?
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It really did. Agreed.
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Anyways, we said we weren't going to do this.
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Yeah, so. Hard.
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Stop. We're putting in, let's let's
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talk about Kyle. Let's talk about.
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Got independent. Last time we we talked about
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this where did we leave off? We were Mitch was going to that
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meet down with with the guy and the do we do we get up to that?
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No. We did.
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We did the action sequence in Sarakeb and the meet with
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Suleiman and the building, and ultimately he turns himself in
00:08:05
and we were kind of left wondering was his sacrifice, for
00:08:08
not he had hoped, by turning himself in as Matthew Fournier.
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It would kind of release the tension and, you know, the
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Syrian Army might not fire on the protesters.
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The protesters might just dissipate if the Syrian Army
00:08:22
retreats and that didn't happen. So there's this huge shootout
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rap hiding under a body, you know, in the wheel well of this
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truck and just trying to not take shots as they're
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hightailing out of there to turn him over to the Russians.
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So they're on their way to that safe house where unfortunately
00:08:38
that that family gets executed. So what did you think about?
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That action sequence where the Syrian guards take him and are
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waiting for the Russians to come, and he takes the dudes out
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and it's kind of waiting. And he impersonates A Syrian
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soldier as the Russians arrive. So that they underestimate him.
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They just brush him off to the side is just another guard.
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And then he can quite literally stab him in the back and and
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take out the other guard as he's running away.
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That was pretty good. And I think you know like the
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there's multiple scenes we're going to get to a couple of them
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where rap has to check himself a little bit and build up that we
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we see that building up of rage and then we get to immediately
00:09:23
see him act on that like because originally he was just going to
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let let things roll right and and sort of like play the.
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He was very comfortable playing the poor meek Canadian.
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But as soon as they kill that that that family that was just
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helpless like in the in the in the in the house something
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clicked for him And he was just like oh oh hell no.
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Like you know I guess not not enough to like stop them but you
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know he's always tactically minds maybe.
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You know he he couldn't be able to think about like how he was
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going to do this and boy did he like that was a how he got his
00:10:00
revenge and then how he like sets up for the when the
00:10:03
Russians come and like gets get turns the tide on them.
00:10:08
Yeah, crazy. And then there's also the scene.
00:10:12
I'm sort of jumping ahead a lot, but it kind of like relates to
00:10:14
this. But the scene where he's he
00:10:17
eventually escapes from Cementov's.
00:10:21
Facility the facility and he like you know they they they so
00:10:24
underestimate him like they only send two schlubs to get him the
00:10:27
first time and like thought something doesn't click that
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like you know I I was trying to struggle like they really
00:10:34
wouldn't suspect. I mean, I guess, I don't know.
00:10:37
Like, maybe not, but no one knows.
00:10:40
He's the Angel of death here. I buy the transformation and
00:10:44
he's really selling it as if he's this.
00:10:47
Lawyer who's in over his head. I will say that that is one part
00:10:51
of the audio book that I thought Steven Weber like did well.
00:10:56
And maybe that's like why I was like, cringe.
00:10:59
I'm just, yeah, I I said I was going to talk about this, but
00:11:01
I'm not. Doing it, Chris.
00:11:02
I'm trying to give him a little bit of praise and it's just it
00:11:06
was so out of character for Mitch to do that.
00:11:08
Yeah, but it's not out of character because he's trying to
00:11:12
adopt, fully adopt this character.
00:11:15
Rap as Matthew Fournier in the audio book is OK, right?
00:11:19
Like this kind of scared, quaking voice that see whoever
00:11:24
gives him. So I was OK with that side of
00:11:26
things. I just don't think we
00:11:28
transitioned back to rap and and established enough of a identity
00:11:34
of rap. In the audio book, But for
00:11:37
another, I just think back to remember when he was playing the
00:11:40
bouncer. I think I mentioned this last
00:11:41
time, but he was playing a bouncer for Scott.
00:11:44
Like it wasn't Justin Bieber, was like Justin Bieber type.
00:11:50
And he wasn't fully committed to that, you know, Like it was
00:11:52
literally just wrapping a suit with a ponytail, like trying to
00:11:57
be not a bouncer but a bodyguard, right?
00:11:59
But here, he's fully embracing his.
00:12:02
His mission, his mission, his cover.
00:12:04
Like the only other time that I've seen him like, act this
00:12:08
well is like, oh, remember when he impersonates the Saddam
00:12:12
Hussein's son? That was great, dude.
00:12:14
Yeah, yeah. Or when he impersonates a
00:12:17
general like that doesn't do an Air Force general.
00:12:20
He does. I think that actually that's a
00:12:22
pretty good actor now that I think about.
00:12:23
It no, he is. That's easily in his wheelhouse.
00:12:27
And that goes along just when he when he wants to do it, when he
00:12:29
wants to do. It right.
00:12:31
And that goes with something Vince established.
00:12:33
Is his ability to read the room and read other people's cues.
00:12:37
Like, I think one of his main things is being able to
00:12:41
understand, put himself in someone else's shoes and then
00:12:46
play to that person's weakness. Like he could very quickly pick
00:12:49
up on people's vulnerabilities. That's why when he's yelling at
00:12:53
Barbara Lonsdale, you know he's using her, tells her
00:12:57
vulnerabilities against her and he turns her ultimately.
00:13:00
Even in a committee hearing or even at the Pentagon, you know,
00:13:03
we saw him in transfer power, slamming his fists and whatnot.
00:13:06
He's able to win those arguments, I think not just on
00:13:09
the merits of the logical statement he's trying to to
00:13:14
portray, but I think he's able to win those arguments because
00:13:17
he's using his interlocutors weak spots and and playing to
00:13:23
that. And I think so when he's
00:13:24
undercover, he's able to do that so well and then he combines
00:13:28
that with the tactics. The guy is at the well and he
00:13:31
and he wants to approach the guy at the well, so he's asking if
00:13:35
he wants some water because that makes sense.
00:13:37
He would approach him at a well. He doesn't understand him, so it
00:13:40
gives him that delay because there's a language barrier.
00:13:42
So he uses that as a delay to get closer and he's pantomime
00:13:46
with his hand, sip of water, sip of water, but it's really cover
00:13:49
for him concealing a knife in the other hand.
00:13:52
He's able to use that skill set operationally and tactically to
00:13:57
get the upper hand. And not to mention American
00:13:59
Assassin. Like even before his training,
00:14:03
he was able to get people to underestimate him, to not show
00:14:08
his full set of cards and while. Take his time to read The Room
00:14:12
and and I think tapping into that here is brilliant.
00:14:16
I will say we skip something which might actually be perhaps
00:14:21
one of my favorite parts of the book.
00:14:23
I I think when once we talk about everything, there are some
00:14:25
amazing action sequences. But in terms of spy writing and
00:14:29
thinking like old school Vince, third option style, one of my
00:14:34
favorite things is the reason RAP gets reapprehended by
00:14:38
Seminov's crew and actually sent to Seminov's facility is the
00:14:41
escape. He plans with Irene to go
00:14:43
through the Israeli border. And the moment from that phone
00:14:47
call with Irene, there's a few chapters of him going through
00:14:52
the border wall, which I think is really cool and how even the
00:14:54
UN guard, you know, doesn't even care.
00:14:57
Mossad lets him all the way through too easily, barely
00:15:00
checking his paperwork, you know, at the border or or
00:15:02
whoever border security is. And then he tells the woman
00:15:05
isn't getting close to him. So he kind of senses the ambush
00:15:09
coming at Spidey Sense, and then he gets taken with the
00:15:12
balaclavas. And I I thought it was so cool
00:15:15
the way Ben Friedman has brought in.
00:15:17
And Ben Friedman's mistake, if you will, his backstabbing being
00:15:22
a piece of shit that he is. Actually makes sense
00:15:25
geopolitically with the Golan Heights trade and and the fact
00:15:29
that that gets wrapped in seminars.
00:15:31
Grip I just think is is a really cool little sequence.
00:15:35
Yeah. And you know I think we
00:15:37
mentioned this like that stretch of chapters.
00:15:39
It's right around 20 to like 25 some of Kyle's best writing,
00:15:48
right. That's that's where you that's
00:15:49
that's right when when it is right.
00:15:51
Is it just after that? Yeah, and and I think you throw
00:15:53
in. Around that time, when he knows
00:15:57
Damian Loessa burned him. And so he looks for a guy
00:16:01
similar and built to him, slips the phone into his bag, and then
00:16:04
stakes out his apartment and he sees the Syrians come in to try
00:16:08
to grab him. Yeah, that that reminded me of
00:16:11
the third option very well. You know like when he cuz he
00:16:14
when he's rap is such an interesting character because he
00:16:17
has he can be brute force when he wants to be brute force.
00:16:20
He can be the shapeshifting undercover guy when he wants to
00:16:25
be. He's also also the tactician who
00:16:28
can maneuver in and out of a city in the Middle East, Paris,
00:16:34
England. Like you know he could pop in
00:16:36
and out of anyone track anybody do his SD R's.
00:16:40
Find someone like who looks like him to drop his phone and he
00:16:43
what he hides under. He buries himself underneath the
00:16:45
brick of a blanket of bricks to like watch this guy and to know
00:16:50
to fully confirm that he was betrayed by by Losa.
00:16:55
Going back to Friedman bringing back we kind of we kind of
00:16:58
mentioned that Kyle was like sort of playing all the hits
00:17:00
like he wanted to play in the sandbox every single sandbox one
00:17:03
last time or you know at least have the ability to write that
00:17:06
you know I felt I felt that the Hurley reference was was like
00:17:10
that bringing back Ben Friedman. The only thing that would have
00:17:12
made it even better was like if somehow Donatella would have
00:17:15
been here. I don't know.
00:17:17
Yeah. And then I didn't see the
00:17:19
coming. I did not see Friedman turning,
00:17:23
turning on like like that. That was out of.
00:17:25
Did you see it coming like that? No, I didn't.
00:17:29
I was wondering what the play was.
00:17:32
But it was so typical of who Brent Ben Friedman was when we
00:17:35
last encountered and last knew him.
00:17:38
But he also, we knew he's good. He gets Irene to trust him.
00:17:43
You know, to think I'm gonna. Facilitate this and this will
00:17:47
you know our debts will be squared away and Rap is even
00:17:50
thinking like he can't still hold a grudge about me shooting
00:17:55
him in the leg. Like that was where we last left
00:17:58
off with Ben Friedman in the situation Room.
00:18:00
And wrap Wrap kneecaps him. And there's no way Rap is
00:18:04
thinking like he's that petty. He's going to, like, do all this
00:18:07
and screw over. Irene Kennedy basically put a
00:18:09
mark on his forehead simply because he harbors a grudge like
00:18:14
that. And then it wasn't true.
00:18:16
It was the Golan Heights trade and even says, like, this is way
00:18:19
above me and you, Mitch. And he tries to make amends with
00:18:23
Mitch where he's actually have it here.
00:18:25
So when he's about to turn Mitch over to the Russians, he says,
00:18:28
and I love this stuff. It's it's so Ben Friedman.
00:18:31
It's such a good spy writing he's like the Russians wanted
00:18:36
the drug cartels lawyer. That's who I'm turning over.
00:18:39
I am not working for the Russians, providing them
00:18:41
intelligence, so I don't need to tell them your real identity.
00:18:44
You know, I'm turning over the lawyer they asked for, and
00:18:46
that's my end of the bargain. And Israel gets the Golan
00:18:49
Heights agreement from the Syrians for this.
00:18:52
That kind of horse trading, quid pro quo, I think is really,
00:18:56
really cool. And Ben Friedman says this.
00:19:00
It's the way of the world, isn't it, Mitch?
00:19:02
We bleed and the politicians make speeches.
00:19:04
Our Prime Minister will go over Irene's.
00:19:06
Head to your president and they'll do some backroom deal
00:19:09
that benefits them both in the event you die.
00:19:12
Irene will undoubtedly find ways to make my life miserable for a
00:19:14
few years, but nothing more. She understands her place.
00:19:17
We both do. I've instructed my men to remove
00:19:20
the handcuffs before they take you across.
00:19:22
There's no reason for the Russians to see you, and we'll
00:19:25
play to that perception. Good luck, Mitch.
00:19:27
And I mean that sincerely. Fuck you, Ben.
00:19:30
And I mean that sincerely too, that line.
00:19:35
Landed so hard. When I first read it, it landed
00:19:39
so hard. And then I listened to Steven
00:19:41
Webber's audio recording of it and I was so fucking bummed.
00:19:45
I was sorry I broke the rule. I got to say.
00:19:48
I was so bummed with how lame raps response came off.
00:19:54
It was the lamest. Fuck you, Ben.
00:19:56
I mean that sincerely too. Like, bro, that is not the tone
00:20:00
rap would have in that moment with Brett.
00:20:02
Ben Friedman. Sorry, I went there.
00:20:07
Yeah, I know. I I read that and like I said,
00:20:11
that's we're right in this wheelhouse of of Kyle's.
00:20:14
You know some of some of his best, what I think is some of
00:20:17
his best writing and some of the best writing of this book.
00:20:20
Yeah, yeah. No, I this book takes like some
00:20:23
weird it's it's very rap centric.
00:20:26
We're like with rap pretty much the entire time, right?
00:20:28
Yeah, it's true. I I feel like that's fitting.
00:20:32
You know, it it makes sense. He wants to, you know, it's kind
00:20:35
of clinging on to this character.
00:20:36
I don't want to let a guy to. I don't even want to waste my
00:20:39
time going to another character. I guess in the beginning we get
00:20:43
a little bit of losa, you know back and forth to to Damian.
00:20:47
But then after that we're just, we're just with, we're just with
00:20:51
rap. And so after this you know he
00:20:54
gets he gets he is able to escape gets turned back over
00:21:00
this man still able to get out again this this after being
00:21:05
underestimated again like he gets and then this is where we
00:21:09
truly or Mitch realizes what's going on.
00:21:13
You know like we and we we as a reader and we kind of knew what
00:21:16
was going on but we we get it fully explained to us.
00:21:21
When you know, Seminov tries to interrogate him obviously he
00:21:26
thinks that he knows everything about the cartels operation he
00:21:30
wants it all plays out these unrealistic plans.
00:21:33
He's gonna he's gonna torture him and then but I think
00:21:39
ultimately rap realizes that he cannot and he can no longer sit
00:21:44
idly by. This is this is now.
00:21:46
All right. They had their fun but this
00:21:50
can't happen. So he's and that that's really
00:21:53
where he he sort of takes a turn and realizes all right I got a I
00:21:56
got a my debt with Damian Lissa doesn't doesn't matter anymore.
00:22:00
Right. Right.
00:22:02
I think I was satisfied. With how those that storyline
00:22:07
transitioned because in part one we were both a little hesitant
00:22:12
getting into the the drug market right the Arab drug incursion in
00:22:17
Europe. I was like, how does this going
00:22:19
to? Why does Miss care about this at
00:22:22
all, you know? Yeah.
00:22:23
Why does Mitch care and why? Why should we care?
00:22:25
And I didn't know if it did enough to drive the plot.
00:22:29
I think the Seminav conversation at the facility when raps turned
00:22:33
over by the Israelis. I think unlocks a big part of
00:22:38
the plot that I'm jiving with like scorecard.
00:22:41
If I was going to give 10 points in the plot in the first half
00:22:43
just setting up the European drug trade and loses wanting to
00:22:48
analyze the Captagon, you know tablets and get the Reed of the
00:22:51
land. Actually a 2-3, maybe a four.
00:22:55
But once we hear the maniac that Seminav is and his plans to
00:23:00
triumphantly return to the Kremlin and this whole drug
00:23:04
thing is. Part of his larger plan in in
00:23:07
the Russian asymmetrical warfare manifesto, if you will, once
00:23:12
that clicks for rap, it clicked for me.
00:23:16
And he's like, this is more about a drug trade and settling
00:23:19
my debt with with some Mexican, right?
00:23:21
He's like, this is actually about us all being pawns and the
00:23:25
whole Syrian conflict being pawns in a Russian.
00:23:31
Attack on the West and and the Ferrari line is perfect.
00:23:34
Like Kyle's got the zingers when when he's telling.
00:23:37
Rap is I think telling. I don't remember who it was.
00:23:41
Maybe it was Losa. I think it was.
00:23:43
He's giving Losa the dump on on. What he's learning is like you
00:23:47
hand a Russian the keys to the Ferrari, they're not going to
00:23:50
even want to drive it. They're just going to want to
00:23:52
use the keys to scratch up everyone else's car and destroy
00:23:55
everyone else. And raps like that's Seminov.
00:23:58
And so like, if I don't stop this, it has nothing to do with
00:24:01
them making money. The drug is losing the money.
00:24:03
It 100% has to do with him infiltrating the West.
00:24:06
And now the xenophobia of the Arab attack in Salerno and all
00:24:11
the other things going on, this, this fear of the migrants, they
00:24:16
were stocking that right. It's all manufactured.
00:24:19
It's it's it's not that people hate each other, you know, de
00:24:22
facto. It's that it's being stoked so
00:24:25
someone can manipulate you. And now Seminov's plan is to do
00:24:29
that with the border crisis in America, with Latino stereotypes
00:24:34
now blaming them for causing America's downfall and addiction
00:24:39
to this drug. And that's, I think, I think
00:24:42
it's a really crazy plan. And one other thing that
00:24:45
elevates it for me. Irene Kennedy describes Seminov
00:24:50
as perhaps the world's most dangerous person.
00:24:53
Yeah, that was it was spooky the chilly when she when she
00:24:56
describes that. That was chilly.
00:24:58
So we've got Claudia warning Damian Losa is an evil, fucked
00:25:05
up Irene Kennedy. A dark Irene Kennedy.
00:25:08
You've got Kennedy warning. Seminov is one of the most
00:25:10
dangerous people in the world. I think Kyle's crafting some
00:25:14
really, really good villains. And just here's a quote on what
00:25:18
I'm talking about. Seminov just to cap it all off.
00:25:22
Seminov was a visionary who understood humanity's weakness
00:25:25
and had a gift for exploiting them.
00:25:27
If he could create sufficient chaos, could he divide the West?
00:25:31
Could he break up the European Union and replace America's
00:25:34
democracy with an with an authoritarian who promised
00:25:38
stability and order? The cost of defending against
00:25:41
his programs and repairing the damage when we fail is
00:25:44
astronomical. If there's anyone more dangerous
00:25:47
in the world right now, I can't think of who.
00:25:50
He's not just constantly reinventing asymmetrical
00:25:52
warfare, he's actively waging it.
00:25:55
That's chilling. And that, coming from Kennedy is
00:25:58
even more chilling. Yeah, this.
00:26:01
I liked Seminole a lot. I don't know if we want to jump
00:26:05
to the end, but I didn't like how he went out so easily,
00:26:08
though. Did that jibe with this
00:26:13
mastermind. I mean I guess he's ultimately
00:26:15
weak right I and and Kyle does do a good job of setting that up
00:26:19
in the sense that yeah he wears a general suit but he never
00:26:22
earned any of the of the medals. He's more of a fairly you know
00:26:29
likes his finer things in life was relegated to this thing.
00:26:34
I don't know. I just he he was built up to be
00:26:37
this bigger you know genius and the rap was able to easily get
00:26:44
them and like in the end I mean pretty ingenious plan like can
00:26:48
we can we can we talk about the ending a little bit Like you
00:26:50
know there's there's some things I don't know there are a couple
00:26:54
things I want to talk about in the build up because essentially
00:26:57
you know it's a couple chapters but rap and team spend was it
00:27:01
almost two months in country like yeah prepping it's a couple
00:27:04
weeks prepping like waiting for this op to happen like that was
00:27:08
pretty crazy. Like we rarely get time lapses
00:27:12
like that in these stories. I I think I will just respond
00:27:16
with that. The fact that the action set
00:27:19
piece at the end was meticulously planned.
00:27:23
So getting Seminov I wouldn't say was easy.
00:27:26
Maybe the fact in the latter chapters, the very ending
00:27:29
chapters that he's working for us essentially right, that he's
00:27:33
providing us all this information, Maybe that's a
00:27:35
little too easy. But the fact that to get this
00:27:38
guy we had to set up this OP. And on the phone, Mitch has to
00:27:42
say to Irene, just send me my guys.
00:27:45
Like, yeah, just I was waiting for like that to happen.
00:27:48
I was waiting. I needed it to happen.
00:27:50
Like you said, it was so rap centric.
00:27:52
Every action scene is rap driven and I'm loving it.
00:27:55
But then right when I want to scratch that itch of a Scott
00:27:59
Coleman, a Bruno McGraw, a mass like a Charlie Wicker, Kyle
00:28:04
gives it to me. He gives it full on and.
00:28:08
The fact that that scene had to cook right, like Coleman had to
00:28:11
come in wearing the Jalaba to cover his hair and only his eyes
00:28:14
could be seen. He shows up at the door.
00:28:17
He's like, damn Mitch, I was, I was fishing on the Med like and
00:28:20
then everyone else has their own little entrance, I just think.
00:28:24
And Charlie Wicker comes in in the motorbike to scout out his
00:28:26
perch. I I thought all of that was so
00:28:30
much fun. It was cooking, it was stewing
00:28:32
and it built up to an incredible set action piece.
00:28:36
So for all that, I don't think Seminov was taken down too
00:28:39
easily. All right.
00:28:40
I shouldn't say taken down too easy.
00:28:41
I thought. You're right.
00:28:42
The later scenes where he's flipped really easily.
00:28:45
Yeah, that just. I don't know, maybe I'm picking
00:28:49
too many nights a little. But that could Ding your buying.
00:28:51
I could see that the same way when RAP is or Matthew Fournier
00:28:56
is escorted by only these two motorbikes and he's allowed in
00:28:59
the passenger seat of a car. After being captive, really,
00:29:03
really underestimated. That's a stretch.
00:29:05
Yeah, that's a stretch on buy in for me.
00:29:08
So I'll give you a couple of Dings here along the way.
00:29:12
That was a cool action set piece that like how he got out and I
00:29:16
pulls like a fast and the furious, pull the brake, grab
00:29:20
the driver as I like, roll out the side door to break my fall,
00:29:24
punch one guy and then use my speed to Sprint away like boom
00:29:29
rap. Figured it out.
00:29:31
And that, and I liked his time with the insurgents.
00:29:34
And we have a candidate for a winner of this book if it's not
00:29:39
fadin the the museum director, librarian guy from the first
00:29:43
half. Kadir here is just a very
00:29:46
endearing character like he's he's he's got to be a one of our
00:29:51
winners, cuz. Yeah, and his 15 year old nephew
00:29:53
that together they are just, they got to be the winners and
00:29:56
the sacrifice he makes. Yeah, that was, that was
00:29:59
touching and I like it. It, I don't know, I I fell for
00:30:04
it And I I I felt that Kyle developed that character really
00:30:08
well and to get us to feel for it and like putting some of the,
00:30:11
you know, I'm not the coke guy but like some of the quotes
00:30:13
where he at the end he's talking to Mitch about you cling to you
00:30:16
cling to life. Sometimes you need to you know
00:30:19
forget about that. And he wasn't doing it like what
00:30:24
every other novel has depicted people of his culture
00:30:27
essentially doing a suicide bomb.
00:30:29
He was doing it for they took everything away from him.
00:30:33
And like just with the way Kyle was writing, his like
00:30:36
schizophrenicness was was insane to read like this.
00:30:41
I was an engineer like, you know, like I had a life like,
00:30:44
you know, and he would pop back like to him.
00:30:47
And the way rap was able to get him to buy in by giving him
00:30:51
these small little tasks and you know, like sort of stimulating
00:30:55
him. I don't.
00:30:55
I really, really enjoyed reading that character.
00:30:57
Those scenes were great. I 100% I really enjoyed that
00:31:02
character and and I got the sense and so there are two
00:31:05
things going on because operationally this is very
00:31:09
sound. He was an engineer and rap even
00:31:12
picked up on the beams and the structural supports.
00:31:15
And Scott Coleman even says that's where all the shooters
00:31:17
will be if they're doing a prisoner transfer.
00:31:19
So like, taking out this building operationally is the
00:31:21
best thing to do. And he's like, but nobody can
00:31:25
survive there. There's nobody who can survive
00:31:27
that explosion if we bring the truck in and raps like let me
00:31:30
worry about that. So rap gets tactically.
00:31:34
This is a good move. But he's never sent one of his
00:31:37
guys to his death. His his own death?
00:31:40
No, he says that too. He's like.
00:31:42
I never used a suicide bomber, which also thinking tactically,
00:31:46
kind of gives them cover because then it will look like the West.
00:31:50
It will look like an insurgency because we wouldn't.
00:31:53
And most people know Irene Kennedy wouldn't make Mitch use
00:31:57
suicide bombers and let his men do that.
00:32:00
Scott wouldn't do it right in his company.
00:32:02
So it's cover from being the West.
00:32:03
Yet at the same time, rap has this.
00:32:06
I think this clear sense of truth that this is what Kadir
00:32:12
wants. Like he he has all his mental
00:32:14
issues so he may not be thinking clearly, but it is the right
00:32:19
move to allow Kadir to do this. It's almost the closure that
00:32:23
this man needs and Rap will not make him.
00:32:27
I don't even know if rap formally asks him to do it, but
00:32:29
he more like leads the horse to water.
00:32:32
And and I don't get the sense he's manipulating A vulnerable
00:32:35
person. I know I was thinking that too.
00:32:37
And no I. Think he's building a connection
00:32:39
and there's this clarity I I can't explain it and and Kyle's
00:32:43
words captured perfectly when they're talking about that and
00:32:47
he sees and Mitch he's like you're clinging on to dearly to
00:32:50
life. You know you get this clarity
00:32:52
that could deer has a purpose and a mission and to not let him
00:32:56
do it would be more damaging to make could deer live.
00:33:00
Post fact that he could have been more helpful in exacting
00:33:04
revenge on the Russians and stopping this plot and then not
00:33:06
letting him do that in some sense is more damaging to
00:33:10
Kadir's mental health in his future than I think in this
00:33:13
moment. Yeah, I think when RAP saw him
00:33:15
building the bomb, like it kind of like tossing it around like
00:33:19
like it was a hot potato. And he kind of knew that this
00:33:23
guy, he just couldn't build up enough, you know, couldn't stay
00:33:29
sane for enough minutes to formulate a plan like this.
00:33:33
And rap was just giving him an opportunity to to further, you
00:33:37
know to to get it a little bit quicker than what maybe Kadir
00:33:40
would have would have eventually gotten to you know, he.
00:33:42
Would have just blown himself up by mishandling the bomb, you
00:33:45
know, or dropping it and perhaps giving him a purpose instead of
00:33:48
just a tragic, sad ending. This is Yeah, I it's funny, I
00:33:51
did feel like that when I was reading.
00:33:52
I was like this is is rap the only like weird sticky thing.
00:33:56
But in the end, I I sort of came down on the line that it wasn't.
00:33:59
It was Kadir's choice. Yeah, that that people ask them
00:34:03
like multiple times. Like you.
00:34:04
OK, do it. You know, Like you don't have
00:34:06
to. Like, are you OK doing this?
00:34:09
Yeah. Another thing is the cultural
00:34:12
aspect that's been built up of what isolation in a culture that
00:34:16
is so hospitable means like to be, quote UN quote, kicked out
00:34:21
of your village. That's more than just not having
00:34:24
a. Physical home that is not having
00:34:27
a community like that's a that it's such a major thing that I
00:34:33
think rap picks up on. It's probably worse for this guy
00:34:36
to live knowing he has to be this hermit, isolated, never
00:34:41
going to be accepted and and just it was a fitting ending and
00:34:46
it was it's terrible that it had to get to that point but also
00:34:50
what we know about Semanoff's plan.
00:34:52
This is permanently damaging. Like if we buy Seminov's tests
00:34:56
and his research, there's no coming back to this.
00:34:59
Another fuzzy moment here is and is it out of character when
00:35:04
Mitch tells Scott Coleman and the boys, I really, honestly
00:35:07
don't care if anybody walks out of this building alive.
00:35:10
Researcher, scientist, prisoner. I don't know if that's just rap.
00:35:15
Admitting the mission is so important and and the actual
00:35:19
prisoners are are done. They're toasted for life like.
00:35:22
They're they're already victims. It's okay with blowing them all
00:35:26
up. Did you feel that was also a
00:35:28
moral Gray zone? Yeah.
00:35:30
Another thing that was like they're sort of threading this
00:35:33
line of is, is that the mid trap way I get the scientists, you
00:35:39
know, like they're they're complicit in in the act.
00:35:44
He's always been, you know, like he's always been like that with,
00:35:50
you know, those kind of people. The prisoners, on the other
00:35:53
hand, yeah, I don't know. But, you know, he then goes out
00:35:59
of his way to like be kind to the prisoners that they release
00:36:03
from the truck they steal at the end, you know, And even though
00:36:06
in his mind he says, I don't know why I'm doing this,
00:36:09
considering that these guys are probably Hezbollah, you know,
00:36:13
like some sort of terror, you know, associated.
00:36:15
But, you know, at the moment they're no longer my enemy.
00:36:18
But those guys didn't have the psychosis and the withdrawal
00:36:21
symptoms that are permanent and lasting.
00:36:24
They weren't transferred there yet.
00:36:25
So there is hope for them. It's why he let the prisoners
00:36:28
go. But the ones in the building
00:36:30
going through the program already, I think RAP is just
00:36:33
kind of resigned to saying the damage is done.
00:36:36
I guess he saw what he saw what happened with with Kadeer and I
00:36:41
was like, oh, this, this is not not good, so.
00:36:44
Yeah, not not good at all. There is a scene too on their
00:36:47
escape where they're kind of looking through thermals or
00:36:50
infrareds and they see two guards, like checking a fence or
00:36:52
something, and they don't actually want to shoot them.
00:36:55
Like our missions done, we're packing up and flying out of
00:36:57
here. Do you remember there was a line
00:36:59
about that too? Oh, it was like they they saw
00:37:01
these guys coming and he tells Charlie.
00:37:04
Are they coming to us? If not.
00:37:08
Let him go, Let him go, because it's not worth getting.
00:37:11
Essentially not worth giving up the sniper position exactly.
00:37:14
And he didn't have a beat on him from where he was.
00:37:17
He could just see them. He could get a shot.
00:37:19
And if they're not a threat, that's a tactical.
00:37:21
Yeah, it was a tactical thing, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:24
But those little little things were just like, you know?
00:37:28
They make you think maybe it's indicative of a changing world,
00:37:31
A changing landscape. Could be, Yeah, very much so.
00:37:34
Like the enemy is, is not the enemy of.
00:37:37
The early 2000s, you know, everyone who's dressed this way
00:37:40
and military age man, you know, shoot him if it's not, it's not
00:37:44
black and white anymore. Or, you know, I think maybe it's
00:37:47
indicative of that. The same way around the campfire
00:37:50
rap was reflecting in the first few chapters about is the
00:37:53
Taliban even the enemy anymore? Is Al Qaeda even the enemy
00:37:56
anymore? Who's the enemy?
00:37:59
You know, it's I think it's blurring the edges in the field.
00:38:05
And I think making the job that much harder and and so rap able
00:38:08
to cut through that and say Kadir's going to do what he has
00:38:11
to do kind of gives like I'll say again clarity or definition
00:38:15
to the the mission parameters. And then then by saying the
00:38:19
guards just walking around who aren't a threat to us we can let
00:38:21
go. Is again another way to find
00:38:24
definition in a battlefield that is so blurred?
00:38:28
Yeah, no, I agree. So what do you think of the
00:38:33
ending here? The we we get this big action
00:38:36
set piece. The bomb goes off.
00:38:39
We get some guns going. The the boys do their action
00:38:43
ultimately raps able to get Seminov out with I I thought
00:38:48
like the we kind of knew that they were spending this time
00:38:52
because he tells us like he's been with Bernie McGraw feeding
00:38:55
like he he's only one is able to go out because Bruno's like as
00:38:58
American as they come or New York as they come, I guess, is
00:39:01
what he says. Yo, I actually got the quote on
00:39:04
Bruno only because I'm reading this chapter and I'm like, this
00:39:09
dude is my spirit animal. I'm like, I don't know why I I
00:39:14
was, I was jive with this. So First off, he gives a
00:39:17
physical description, which is not much me, but he says quote
00:39:20
McGraw was a topnotch shooter but also as American as someone
00:39:24
could get. Voice, gate mannerisms.
00:39:27
You could dress that guy up like Lawrence of Arabia.
00:39:29
And he'd still be the personification of a Bruce
00:39:31
Springsteen song. Like there it is.
00:39:35
That's Kyle. Kyle being Kyle.
00:39:37
But then, this is the part that I really connected with.
00:39:41
Of all Scott Coleman's men, McGraw was the most susceptible
00:39:44
to the crushing boredom that was inevitable in battle.
00:39:47
While Charlie Wicker's idea of a good time was letting snow pile
00:39:50
up on him while he waited for an elk to wander by.
00:39:53
McGraw was Manhattan born and bred.
00:39:56
He loved action whenever and whenever he can get it.
00:39:59
Combat sports, fast cars, Las Vegas binges.
00:40:03
Give him something to do and he went full blast.
00:40:06
Give him nothing to do and he went slowly insane.
00:40:09
That's totally you. Identify Bruno Mcgraw's All of a
00:40:12
sudden one of my favorite characters on the team now
00:40:16
that's totally yeah. So we get the sense stuff's
00:40:22
going on and even drops that you know, Scott's been practicing on
00:40:27
this mock up that he built out of like trash and A and a
00:40:31
simulator on the computer to to be able to fly that helicopter.
00:40:34
It was, you know, pretty intensive operation that they
00:40:37
were able to pull off. Bringing in these other shooters
00:40:40
from the, you know, various places in the Arab world,
00:40:43
relying on them. Everything had to go off without
00:40:46
a hitch. You know stake you know doing an
00:40:49
oldfashioned stakeout to get that prisoner transport truck.
00:40:54
Pretty ingenious. I was, I was pretty bought into
00:40:56
that that final mission. Yeah.
00:40:58
And then you know he's able to get Seminov out alive and turns
00:41:04
them pretty easily. Yeah.
00:41:05
So that I I kind of already mentioned my my thing on that.
00:41:07
The the last thing I wanted to mention with the ending here is
00:41:11
did you have a bone chilling like moment when when we get the
00:41:15
call to Loza like with with with the gun.
00:41:19
The great great scene, I think if.
00:41:23
The set action piece was this race to the finish line.
00:41:25
You know a good Mitch rat book has this race to the finish line
00:41:29
gent to the end with this huge set piece.
00:41:32
Then you got to kind of come down from it and this could be
00:41:34
tough right Like wrapping up the op, turning over seminar was
00:41:38
whatever. But you want something else to
00:41:40
kind of satisfy as this post climactic action de numa both
00:41:47
the LOSA phone call at the Prague safe house.
00:41:51
And the epilogue with Mitch coming home, both of those as an
00:41:56
ending. Absolutely satisfied.
00:42:00
So on our patron call last night, couple people I know Mark
00:42:04
had some ideas on the ending. Was it really this knockout
00:42:08
ending, this Major Kyle going out with a bang?
00:42:13
And I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm glad it wasn't in the
00:42:17
sense of. All of a sudden somebody gets
00:42:20
blown up. You know, like Charlie Wicker's
00:42:22
dead. No.
00:42:23
Like, I didn't want something that was that rattling to the
00:42:26
series. And I don't think Kyle wanted to
00:42:29
do that to Don. You know, like something major
00:42:32
with Irene or someone else said, like Mitch becomes president.
00:42:35
Like this Big Bang of a life. Mitch loses an arm.
00:42:39
Yeah, yeah. Mitch loses his arm.
00:42:40
Right now he's walking around with a peg leg.
00:42:42
You know, whatever. I was almost glad it didn't
00:42:44
culminate in something like that, and instead we're kind of
00:42:47
taken down into this different space of thrilling, but not
00:42:55
action-packed. And so the Losa phone call is
00:42:58
thrilling. You know, he's wondering, do I
00:43:01
have to get out of town? I tried to call Claudia, right?
00:43:05
I made an attempt to make friends to say the debt is
00:43:09
settled. Neither of us got fully what we
00:43:13
wanted. But Claudia, you're alive for
00:43:14
what I offered Mitch. And now, even though I betrayed
00:43:18
Mitch, he can forgive me for that.
00:43:19
And by forgive, I mean not kill me and I won't have to spend my
00:43:23
life looking over my shoulder. And here I am like, oh damn, is
00:43:27
Mitch going to take the deal? Is Losa going to have to, you
00:43:30
know, be watching behind him every step of the way?
00:43:34
And Mitch just gets the upper hand in a really creative way
00:43:37
immediately. And the best part is, they're
00:43:38
locking down what they thought was a safe house they just moved
00:43:41
into. They're locking it down.
00:43:44
He's calling in shooters. They're barricading.
00:43:46
They're putting the blinds down. He's afraid, even if the glass
00:43:49
is bulletproof. And Mitch can still get to him,
00:43:52
and all of a sudden he turns and he sees the Glock on the table.
00:43:57
That was chilling. And Julian's like, what are we
00:44:00
doing? We got to get out of here.
00:44:01
He's like now we're good. It was just this subtle symbol
00:44:04
of rap saying I could fuck you anytime I want to.
00:44:09
I could do whatever I want to. And guess what?
00:44:12
You helped save Claudia. The debt is paid.
00:44:15
And I thought that was it was almost as satisfying as like
00:44:18
Grisha Azarov and Mitch parting ways as mutual.
00:44:22
This gentleman's agreement, right?
00:44:23
Like we're both almost as good as one another.
00:44:27
We've had our things in the past, but as professionals
00:44:30
there's a code and. You know, like rival gangs,
00:44:34
there's at least some sense of St.
00:44:36
Code, you know, between them and and when something's going down.
00:44:39
And I just felt it was this way for two men at the top of their
00:44:42
game to say the game recognized game, you know, and Mitch say
00:44:46
I'm better than you and Losa has to accept it because he tried to
00:44:50
betray him. I just thought it was a really,
00:44:52
really bone chilling, thrilling, but not action-packed way to
00:44:56
wrap up. Yeah, no, you took the words out
00:45:00
of my mouth. I think the, you know, this idea
00:45:04
that rap is always you can't do anything to to beat him like
00:45:08
he's he's just going to be there and I don't know how the hell he
00:45:12
got that gun in the house do you think?
00:45:14
Was he there, dude, I'd love it. Nobella.
00:45:17
Was he actually there? Did he?
00:45:19
Did he, does he have someone on the inside?
00:45:21
On the inside, right. Does that Green or Claudia have
00:45:23
someone on the side? But the phone, his phone is
00:45:26
traced there. But you know, that could be
00:45:27
easily fixed. So yeah, I don't know.
00:45:29
I would love, love to know that. I like how the gun got there.
00:45:32
We should ask. Kyle Yeah, I was thinking back
00:45:34
on it, and again, not to armchair quarterback.
00:45:37
I'm going to try to not do that anymore.
00:45:39
On the pod I was thinking, and this is only like after my 4th
00:45:42
time reading it, how cool would it have been if there was a
00:45:46
little line about either one of the guards or some assistant to
00:45:50
Julian wearing the dress shoes? Because a through line had been
00:45:56
wrapped. Dress shoes.
00:45:57
Those shoes. That he didn't want to part
00:45:59
with. So how would Losa would have
00:46:01
known that though? Yeah.
00:46:03
Would Losa have seen his shoes at any point?
00:46:05
Or Losa had his guy make the shoe he.
00:46:07
Hooked him up. Yeah, Losa would have known even
00:46:10
if he hadn't seen him. Like those?
00:46:11
Are those, like, amazing shoes? But Can you imagine like an
00:46:14
assistant to Julian or something being like, where'd you get
00:46:17
those shoes? He goes.
00:46:18
I just picked him up at a shop or whatever, and I don't know,
00:46:22
just something about the shoes to kind of tie it all together
00:46:25
to let us know either wrap was there or wrap was on the inside.
00:46:28
That would have been a good idea if the guy got shoes on.
00:46:31
I bought him this guy outside. He just sold it to me.
00:46:34
Yeah, like the shoes in the Glock or something sitting there
00:46:36
too. Yeah, yeah.
00:46:39
No, it was it was good. And I know, I know, you were a
00:46:42
sucker for the epilogue. Yeah, dude, you you absolutely
00:46:46
know it. You know it.
00:46:47
And and I'm not going to try to brag, I knew the bike was in the
00:46:50
trunk. I really did.
00:46:52
You did. You did?
00:46:53
Oh, I I knew rap was coming home with that bike.
00:46:56
I just knew it in my bones. I didn't know it was going to be
00:47:00
an $8000 bike that he got parts from all over the world to to
00:47:05
soup up this bike as he did, but.
00:47:08
I I knew when rap came home, especially when we got the
00:47:11
details about it being months and months and months and
00:47:14
Claudia's like, Anna's going to eventually catch on, you know,
00:47:17
she can't go horseback riding forever.
00:47:19
At some point she's going to wonder about Mitch and her life
00:47:22
and where we are, what we're doing.
00:47:24
And I knew he was going to bring home the bike.
00:47:27
It was just had a feeling. But it was perfect with the
00:47:30
luggage and go get it out of the car, it was perfect.
00:47:36
That was great. How about you wanna, you wanna
00:47:40
you wanna give us some scores? So you you kind of brought this
00:47:43
up. When we, when we first got on,
00:47:47
we should have talked about this last year with the the loyalty
00:47:51
we, I think we were kind of like just getting our stride with the
00:47:53
scorecards. We were just rolling with it.
00:47:55
But that's the only book that we have a scorecard for.
00:48:00
Every other book we gave it both a letter grade and a score out
00:48:08
of 10. So in old for old times sakes,
00:48:14
should we give code red a an og abcdf one out of 10 score and
00:48:22
then we can go into the actual scorecard?
00:48:25
I think we have to cuz every other Mitch rap book is one
00:48:28
through 10 and a letter based score ABCDF.
00:48:32
I think we have to do that. I definitely want to do the
00:48:34
scorecard too. And maybe Oath of Loyalty.
00:48:37
I was a bit of a prisoner of the moment, I think, with that book.
00:48:39
So maybe one day we go back and give our one through 10 ABCD on
00:48:44
that as well 4440. 4 out of 50, Yeah.
00:48:49
OK. I will say this before we get
00:48:51
into the numbers and ratings of it all.
00:48:56
And I'm looking at it compared to what Seminov and Loso were
00:49:00
built up as his villains. There's no way Legion, the three
00:49:04
girls or sisters or whatever deserve a really good villain
00:49:08
score because Losa and Seminav are done so well.
00:49:12
It makes Legion look like, just super What the hell was that?
00:49:15
So I think I overgraded a bit on Oath of Loyalty.
00:49:19
I was a bit of a prisoner of the moment, how much I like that
00:49:22
book. However, I stand by this and
00:49:24
when I said to Kyle last year, it was his consent to kill.
00:49:30
I'm going to, I'm going to actually double down on this.
00:49:33
If it were combined book with Enemy at the Gates.
00:49:37
I think if you put Enemy at the Gates and Oath of Loyalty
00:49:40
together, I stand by that. That arc was Kyle's consent to
00:49:46
kill. It was him doing a really major
00:49:49
shakeup for the series. It had a huge change to America,
00:49:53
a huge change to Mitch's personal life and the Manassas
00:49:58
You Know group. With the Nashes, so I think I'm
00:50:01
going to stand by that. I will admit my scores are a
00:50:04
little inflated on it looking back, but I still loved it.
00:50:08
If I think of it as Part 2 to animate the gates, I mean in the
00:50:12
old days it would just be the one book, right?
00:50:14
Like, Consentico's freaking huge.
00:50:16
Yeah, it would have been one book or we would have got the
00:50:18
third book in that trilogy. Kind of closing it out instead
00:50:22
of jumping to the code red and you know, kind of Side Story.
00:50:27
I just think there were some things that we are not Privy to
00:50:29
about edits, changes, updates, you know, external pressures.
00:50:34
So we don't know anything. But I still stand by I love to
00:50:38
animate the gates to Oath of Loyalty.
00:50:40
The scores may have been a little inflated at the time, but
00:50:42
I love them. So I think I gotta give this
00:50:47
book a solid B. Maybe BB plus okay again. 8889
00:50:55
reach, 8.88.9 reach. You're not not the best, Kyle,
00:51:03
but good Not definitely not the worst Kyle.
00:51:07
Yeah, I think I'm going absolutely solid.
00:51:11
B plus could flirt with A minus, so 898 is a B plus, so B
00:51:17
plus. 89-B plus maybe an 895. You can round it up if you want
00:51:21
a minus by by 100th of a decimal.
00:51:24
You know if you want to, if you want to really, you know go
00:51:27
through it with a fine tooth comb.
00:51:29
I I I am giving it A/B plus but I think it was a stellar book.
00:51:33
Most people have pegged it from what I've heard online and you
00:51:36
know, with different people I've spoken to as a middle of the
00:51:40
pack Mitch Wrap book overall and a middle of the pack Kyle Mills
00:51:43
Mitch Wrap book. I'm thinking like not in the top
00:51:49
ten of all my trap books, but definitely holding down a
00:51:53
twelveish spot somewhere around there.
00:51:57
And not top five of Kyle's, but definitely holding down a 6-7
00:52:01
spot for sure. All right, so we have the
00:52:05
Survivor order to kill Enemy of the state, Red War, lethal agent
00:52:10
total power, any of the Gates oath of loyalty in now Red War.
00:52:15
Code red, Code Red. Sorry.
00:52:18
Do we do the scorecard and then say where it fits in Kyle's
00:52:21
books or. Yeah, yeah, let's do our let's
00:52:27
do our scorecard. So action?
00:52:29
What do you give me? The action?
00:52:33
Here I love that it was rap centric.
00:52:35
Every action sequence hit, we're in sourkeb at the negotiation.
00:52:40
The final action piece, the little things in in between when
00:52:44
raps at the safe houses. We didn't even talk the
00:52:46
compressor scene. No, I know.
00:52:48
When when the guys are hassling him for the protection money,
00:52:51
the racketeering, I think because of all that I gotta go a
00:52:55
solid 9. Most of the action hit and it
00:52:57
lasted start to finish. What do you say?
00:53:01
Yeah, I was in an 8 when you were started like laying more
00:53:03
things out. I bumped it up into an 8.5, you
00:53:05
know, well, solid wasn't, wasn't like action-packed.
00:53:09
But there's a lot of big set pieces that I liked, so give it
00:53:13
a solid 8.5. The plot I want to hear from you
00:53:17
because we had some inconsistencies.
00:53:20
Some buy in things. A plot that wasn't flowing
00:53:23
specifically early on, where do you land on a one through 10
00:53:26
score for plot? I think because if I was grading
00:53:33
the first half, the second-half of the book by itself, I would
00:53:36
go pretty high, like a nine. But when I think about the first
00:53:40
half of the book, that wasn't even more like 7 below, so I
00:53:45
don't know, 7 1/2, it's the plot didn't hook me.
00:53:50
And I think ultimately this is like one of the problems with
00:53:52
being a side quest story is like it took some time to get me
00:53:58
bought into it and maybe I'm digging it in the wrong spot
00:54:01
here, you know, like I wanted to.
00:54:05
I was like what? Why do I care about this book?
00:54:08
It just took a it took a while to get there and then I finally
00:54:10
did. I think it was it was truly like
00:54:14
post you know him running away from Sakib and and once we once
00:54:21
we once we were past that part there obviously there was pieces
00:54:24
of building up to that that I liked.
00:54:26
But once we get past that and we're pretty much as Mitch on
00:54:28
his own, like that's when it started helming, you know, and
00:54:32
that's when we started getting into the writing with Ben
00:54:34
Friedman, the trade in Israel, that kind of stuff like so.
00:54:38
Yeah, Seven and a half, eight. Around there.
00:54:41
I think that's fair. The biggest Ding is it took a
00:54:43
while to get going. I just remember from the
00:54:46
prologue in Salerno through a couple of few chapters, I was
00:54:49
like, don't know why I care about what Los is doing and what
00:54:54
this terrorist Arab network might be doing with the drugs.
00:54:57
But you're right, once we got to the Ben Friedman of it all once.
00:55:03
Losa turned on Rap, and Rap had to find a way to navigate Losa
00:55:08
turning on him with the with the cell phone he planted in the
00:55:10
guy, culminating from that point, culminating up to when he
00:55:15
talks with Seminav and gets the big picture and he gets filled
00:55:18
in on Seminav's asymmetrical warfare plans.
00:55:22
It it got it for me, but it took a while.
00:55:24
Because of that, I'm going to go 8.
00:55:26
I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt with the need on
00:55:28
that. What about buying Mike?
00:55:32
Yeah, I I think you brought up two things tonight that made it
00:55:37
hard for me. Wrapping just escorted in the
00:55:41
passenger seat of a car as Matthew Fournier out of the
00:55:44
Seminov facility where he was essentially A prisoner under
00:55:47
watch. The transportation was way weak.
00:55:52
That lost me the early buyin of the drug trade but the problem
00:55:57
is the action had me bought in. We open with Scott and team.
00:56:02
With the helicopter. Remember the double fake with
00:56:04
the helicopter? Yeah.
00:56:06
When they roll out that I forgot about that scene.
00:56:08
That was a cool scene. Oh, remember how much I went on
00:56:11
and on and ran my mouth in part one about rap reflecting on what
00:56:17
is home and where is his place? With Claudia?
00:56:21
With Anna in Virginia, you know, or the smells of the the open
00:56:25
fire food cooking in the desert, in the sand.
00:56:29
I was bought in in that conversation.
00:56:30
I was bought in with the early action.
00:56:34
I think because of that early buy in then it kind of waned.
00:56:39
Then the buy in once we were with rap operating solo.
00:56:44
Since that's sustained for a really long time, I I want to
00:56:50
settle on a four. Is that being too generous,
00:56:52
Chris, do you have to go? No, I think it was going to do
00:56:55
the same thing because I I don't want to Ding it twice.
00:56:58
Right. For what I kind of already said,
00:57:00
you know, I could have just given lot an 88.5 and then given
00:57:06
buy in a three, you know makes the same difference.
00:57:09
But you know that's the tricky thing with blind buy in and blot
00:57:12
here. It's sometimes it they have
00:57:14
overlap but I I don't want to think it twice because there
00:57:17
were parts you know like you said once we got humming with
00:57:20
Mitch I was fully bought in and once I understood why I should
00:57:25
care about this story then I was bought it and just it took a
00:57:28
little bit of time to get there and I like to piggyback on that
00:57:33
the bag. I thought like you know Losa we
00:57:36
kind of already had this this feeling that you know kind of
00:57:39
like a guy not to be fucked with really liked his character
00:57:43
development. And then equally Cementov was a
00:57:47
pretty good villain. Like I I wouldn't have.
00:57:50
Ultimately these guys are gone, but like I felt these could have
00:57:54
been like characters that if Kyle was continuing, continuing
00:57:58
to write, could have been around for a long time.
00:58:01
Yeah, I think you're right. And before we give our thoughts
00:58:04
here, there's a couple other things with Losa that I wanted
00:58:08
to bring up. And one is when you gotta ask
00:58:14
yourself, what would Kennedy do? And your answer to What would
00:58:19
Irene Kennedy do? You do the opposite.
00:58:22
Or or you do the same thing, but in a darker way.
00:58:24
Like what would Kennedy do? Guided by patriotism, loyalty,
00:58:28
friendship. She would move mountains for
00:58:30
you. You got to take that same answer
00:58:33
but flip it upside down and say what would Damian Losa do?
00:58:37
And the fact that Claudia warns Mitch about that, I think it's
00:58:40
perfect. So Claudia gives this
00:58:42
description. I think this is crazy.
00:58:45
Here we go. Quote.
00:58:46
Claudia's description of Losa as an evil reflection of Irene
00:58:50
Kennedy kept turning over in raps mind.
00:58:53
What would Kennedy, unbound by sentiment, loyalty, or
00:58:56
patriotism, do in the situation? How would she view an utterly
00:59:00
expendable operative with no information that could be useful
00:59:03
to the enemy? It wasn't a difficult question
00:59:06
to answer. She'd throw him to the wolves
00:59:08
and it's like. Now RAP is making decisions on
00:59:11
the ground, knowing Damian Loessa would do that to him
00:59:14
because Irene Kennedy would do it and that's it.
00:59:18
If she if that demanded them for her mission, I thought that was
00:59:22
really cool. And then Loessa, his reading on
00:59:26
RAP is really, really keen because at one point he's
00:59:30
wondering about was Mitch the right guy for the job to send
00:59:34
in? And he's thinking, quote
00:59:36
Historically, Mitch Rapp wasn't a man prone to expending energy
00:59:39
on petty revenge. It was a philosophy Losa himself
00:59:42
shared. Killing needed to serve a
00:59:44
tangible purpose. Neutralizing threats, setting
00:59:47
examples, eliminating competitors.
00:59:49
But emotional satisfaction? That was for psychopaths and
00:59:52
amateurs, 2 things that Mitch Rapp was not.
00:59:56
That tells me Losa has rapp's number, and Rappin, Kennedy and
01:00:00
Claudia even warns of Losa's number.
01:00:02
So I think there's this really cool cat and mouse going back
01:00:05
and forth that elevates Damian Losa for me.
01:00:09
And then the phone calls, when Losa calls Kennedy, excuse me,
01:00:13
when Losa calls Claudia asking for Mitch's forgiveness.
01:00:17
And and to basically tug on that, that warrior code.
01:00:21
I thought the conversations with Losa on the phone were really,
01:00:23
really cool. And those insights into who he
01:00:26
was elevate him. I think I'm going to go as high
01:00:32
as 4/4 on the villains. Four.
01:00:36
OK, I'll. I'll meet you there with the
01:00:38
four. I agree.
01:00:40
Solid villains. I might even go 4.5.
01:00:43
I'm toying with 4.5. Yeah, I'm going to stay.
01:00:48
At 4:00 I think I was generous on buy and I'm going to stay at
01:00:50
4:00. What?
01:00:52
What about the good guys, Mike? The good guys were five.
01:00:56
I mean, whether it was fought in the museum.
01:00:59
Director Kadir the the old man at the end, the engineer.
01:01:03
Excuse me, the engineer. I'm a scientist.
01:01:06
Those were some good guys that you didn't expect to have as
01:01:09
good guys. And then the the description of
01:01:11
Bruno McGraw. Yeah.
01:01:13
I think it's that was fun. I think it's like getting
01:01:16
getting the gang back together one last time.
01:01:19
Like that's what sung to me. Like I love the this.
01:01:23
I don't know why I love it but this little line where rap like.
01:01:26
Goes and finds Charlie Wicker in his hideout and all he simply
01:01:29
does is like, he sticks his. He wouldn't be able to tell it
01:01:32
he's there, but he just sticks his hand out from underneath.
01:01:36
Like to let Mitch know that he's there and he's, he knows that
01:01:39
Mitch is there and then like, retreats back in.
01:01:41
Like, that was just so funny to me.
01:01:44
Yeah, there are the good guys. Got to be a 5 fact that we get
01:01:48
them at the beginning too. We get to see the op from the
01:01:51
get go and then they're gone for most of the book.
01:01:55
Ed, Mitch says send me my guys at the end.
01:01:58
It's just it's just awesome. I loved how that was done
01:02:02
setting. Chris, what do you think?
01:02:03
I mean, Syria plays a big role in this book.
01:02:07
Were you satisfied going around the different towns of Syria?
01:02:11
I was you know I'm not as familiar on this is like my own
01:02:15
fault in terms of I felt like I understood Ukraine like the
01:02:22
Ukraine story with with what's. Brad's novel more because I've
01:02:28
been reading a lot more news about it.
01:02:30
Obviously I was reading about the Syrian war when it broke
01:02:33
out. And then just like most things
01:02:36
that they stopped covering it, right, because it's been going
01:02:38
on for so long. You know, I popping around from
01:02:43
different village. Like, Kyle does a good job
01:02:45
describing various things, describing that town where the
01:02:49
insurgents who helped wrap in his escape.
01:02:53
Describing Damascus or not because he he wasn't in
01:02:56
Damascus. He was in he was in Aleppo at
01:03:00
the very end right. Like that's where his he was
01:03:03
holding out how they plan the op in Idlib.
01:03:08
Idlib and then, yeah, when they were well, they, they got out to
01:03:13
Cyprus or Greece in the very. End the very end.
01:03:17
They went to Cyprus. Yeah, I don't know.
01:03:19
I think. I think Kyle did a good job of
01:03:21
describing. But I'm not.
01:03:24
I don't know the accuracy of it. Like what it what?
01:03:26
What would you say, Mike? You know, I think it was good.
01:03:29
I was transported there at one point.
01:03:32
The different towns and villages maybe got jumbled where they
01:03:36
didn't have enough of their own flavor, but for me to to have a
01:03:41
mental map of everything. But the ones that stood out were
01:03:45
opening campfire scene where they're rescuing the hostages
01:03:49
and Scott Coleman jumps in and they're shooting up that that
01:03:51
empty house, that farmhouse. When they roll out the backside
01:03:55
of the chopper, I thought that I was, I got the smells, the
01:03:58
sights, the sounds. From really early on in the
01:04:02
book, I was transported there. That was Afghanistan, right?
01:04:05
That was actually the Hindu Kush.
01:04:07
So I love that Syria got a little jumbled.
01:04:11
But then again, I'm thinking of the building in Sarakeb with the
01:04:15
crowd protesting outside crumbling buildings that wrap
01:04:19
jumps from one to the other over this like 15 foot gap meeting,
01:04:23
you know, this negotiation on the top floor of a crumbling
01:04:27
building. But that was cool, I think.
01:04:31
I really liked it. And then as we get towards the
01:04:33
Mediterranean, Rap is able to escape from the transport by
01:04:37
rolling down a hill, kind of in a more wooded area, like a
01:04:40
woodsy area, and then find the village with the insurgents
01:04:42
there. I feel like I was taking on a
01:04:44
good tour of the landscape. Yeah, the Israeli border maybe
01:04:48
was described well too. I didn't have a visual of the
01:04:50
checkpoint, but I knew the steps of the process.
01:04:53
Sure. A visual there I think could
01:04:56
have really helped. I think I have to go 3. 1/2 is
01:05:00
disingenuous. I'm going to go four, though.
01:05:03
It's probably the lower end of a four.
01:05:05
I know like I wanted to give it a 3.5 but is that like too rude?
01:05:09
It's like I'm. I'm stuck with 3.5.
01:05:12
Yeah, I know. I think that's justifiable.
01:05:14
I do, yeah. Are you want to give us a
01:05:18
winner? And then we'll come back and
01:05:20
judge this cover by the book. We got 4 covers, believe it or
01:05:23
not, that I was able to scrounge up.
01:05:25
SO4 covers for book that just came out.
01:05:29
I think most people have only really seen the main one, the
01:05:31
American print, but we found the UK, the Australian, and a random
01:05:35
one that was called library binding.
01:05:37
I don't know what that means or where you'll find it, but it was
01:05:40
listed as the library binding. So, I mean, come on.
01:05:47
Who's the winner of this book? Like it's the Syrians.
01:05:51
Yeah, it is. It's, it's you can pick any of
01:05:53
them, Kadir, you could pick the the museum guy.
01:05:57
You could pick Kadir's nephew. I felt like, you know, and maybe
01:06:02
I'm digging, maybe I'm digging saying too much because he does
01:06:05
do a good job of setting up these other, you know, Syrian
01:06:09
characters. Kind of shown like what life is,
01:06:14
even though, like those people in the village.
01:06:16
Yeah, I think that's, you know that's my winner.
01:06:22
Yep. And we talked about that.
01:06:24
I'm going to try to find something different here.
01:06:27
I could say the team up. You know once when Scott and the
01:06:29
guys are training for the. Bike the The bike at the end.
01:06:33
Oh dude, I have to say that I thought it was a absolutely
01:06:38
perfect epilogue for Kyle to go out, not necessarily on a bang
01:06:43
of something major happens, but on a bang in terms of tying up
01:06:47
what he did for the series. Yeah, it is.
01:06:51
A. If you throw in the dad, comment
01:06:54
early on and Anna. That's what Kyle brought to the
01:06:57
series, so exactly the best thing that he brought to the
01:07:01
series. So right.
01:07:02
And Mitch wondering like, whoa, if that's going to be what's
01:07:05
going on here, what does it mean to be a father?
01:07:08
What is the responsibilities of this yet?
01:07:12
I was away, yet I was doing something that's going to give
01:07:15
Anna and other kids like her in America a future, right?
01:07:18
So we had to do that. But then as a father, he wanted
01:07:21
to make up for it, Claudia says. He spoils the girl and he he
01:07:25
didn't care. And I love the little tiny
01:07:28
detail of the effort he went into to get bike parts, to
01:07:31
assemble this thing custom make it, because he knows how much it
01:07:34
means to her. And that was his coming home
01:07:36
gift. Yet of course, Mitch, being
01:07:38
Mitch wouldn't just take it out of the trunk and give it to her.
01:07:41
He flips her the keys and says grab my bag, grab my duffel.
01:07:48
That was just hysterical. And So what a, what a great
01:07:52
ending. I got to give it to the bike
01:07:54
scene if I were going to find a runner up though, because I
01:07:57
wanted to say this too, It's got to be these phone calls.
01:08:01
I was intrigued when Losa calls Claudia or Mitch calls Irene and
01:08:08
different people are tracking each other's phone calls and
01:08:12
he's using the burner phones. I felt like some of these
01:08:14
conversations and the dialogue really helped the book because
01:08:19
most of it were just with Mitch and I loved it.
01:08:21
It it was his perspective on the ground, going through what he's
01:08:24
going through, getting captured, escaping, getting captured,
01:08:26
escaping, you know being transported by Syrians handed
01:08:30
off to the Russians, the. Is that like three times?
01:08:32
Right. And then even?
01:08:33
Yeah, When he called Irene, they first brought up Ben Freedom.
01:08:36
And I'm like, oh hell yeah, let's go.
01:08:38
When Claudia looks at her phone and sees DL, like, there's so
01:08:43
much suspense built into those simple phone calls because, you
01:08:46
know, the dialogue is just going to nail it.
01:08:49
That for that to be the scene I'm taking away from rap for
01:08:53
made it worth it. Where there were some other
01:08:55
things. If we're taking away from rap to
01:08:57
see somebody doing God knows what off to the side, I wouldn't
01:09:00
care as much. But all of those dialogues paid
01:09:03
off. And a winner is Kyle for giving
01:09:08
us 9. Great Mitch.
01:09:12
Kyle obviously is the winner and we made that clear in last
01:09:15
week's episode, that interview, so happy our patrons could come
01:09:18
on. The best fans in the world who
01:09:20
followed him, say what they he meant to him.
01:09:23
And of course that Limerick, you know, we wanted to give him a
01:09:26
good old Mitch rap pod Limerick to go.
01:09:28
So definitely Kyle's the winner and so glad we got to spend time
01:09:32
with him last week. Yeah, we don't have a final
01:09:36
score though, until we talk about these covers.
01:09:39
Chris, what's your first reaction?
01:09:41
Because I don't think a lot of people saw Cover B, Cover C,
01:09:44
Cover D I'll put it on the graphic.
01:09:46
So if you want to see these covers, check our social media,
01:09:49
check our website, listen on Spotify.
01:09:52
When you listen on Spotify, you will see the cover artwork in
01:09:54
the app. What's your first reaction to
01:09:56
BC&D? Well, can we talk about, hey
01:09:59
first real quick? Sure.
01:10:00
Let's get that out of the way we we talked a little bit about.
01:10:02
It we talked a little bit about it and I really like this cover
01:10:04
and like it kind of it makes perfect sense if you want to
01:10:09
pull in like the whole capticon of it, of it all.
01:10:11
Like in terms of this, even though that that's sort of more
01:10:15
affecting the mind, it's still, you know, this drug that's
01:10:20
having an effect on people, you know, their entire health, like
01:10:26
you know the heart, you have this.
01:10:28
Inverse Washington verse Moscow this war that's going on.
01:10:32
Red. I love the coloring.
01:10:35
I love like you know this bleeding in between Moscow and
01:10:38
and and the you know essentially stand in for the United States
01:10:43
and and Moscow. Right.
01:10:44
Really like that cover. OK now the the side covers.
01:10:50
Intriguing. I have to say, I'm intrigued.
01:10:53
And I kind of like Cover B. Really.
01:10:57
Whoa. Yeah, and you know why?
01:11:01
Because there's that scene now. It's not like this getting
01:11:06
smuggled into Syria. No, this is what I took as get
01:11:11
them getting out of the compound.
01:11:16
Remember, Mitch is there with a wounded guy and he's hearing
01:11:20
these clicks, click clicks of like Bruno and the other Arab.
01:11:24
That was there cutting the fence.
01:11:25
He's like, I wish I hear it going on, but I wish it was just
01:11:29
going faster. You're right.
01:11:30
And I see this and that just takes me back to that scene.
01:11:33
So this is cuz he's on the inside of that barbed wire
01:11:36
getting out, if you look at it. So they actually drew it the
01:11:39
right way. He'd be, like, escaping.
01:11:42
It's not gonna look like this, bro.
01:11:44
In the heat of battle, carrying the wounded dude, Bruno McGraw
01:11:48
cutting thing, we should see a huge ogre of a man of Bruno's.
01:11:51
I know, I know. But they they.
01:11:53
One dude standing in a silhouette.
01:11:55
It's too much of A running man for me, bro.
01:11:57
I know it is, It is. It takes us back to or standing
01:12:00
man. Our Our Standing Man, Running
01:12:02
Man series. But I will say I like like the
01:12:06
rip fence because it took me back to that scene and I really
01:12:08
like that scene. I listened to that scene a
01:12:10
couple of times. On the audio book is one one of
01:12:12
the better scenes from the audio book.
01:12:15
So yeah, it seems good, but to be the leading scene on a cover,
01:12:20
and this is the UK cover, so. They did.
01:12:23
They do some weird covers, man. They do.
01:12:25
They do weird ass cover and the layout of them is just a little
01:12:28
strange too. Yeah, OK, Cover.
01:12:31
See though could be, except for one major flaw.
01:12:36
Could be one of the coolest covers I've ever seen.
01:12:40
Oversea is really cool except for we don't have any snowy
01:12:43
hills. I have no idea.
01:12:45
This is this is almost like the train.
01:12:48
Why he's on the snowy like mountainous area fully kitted
01:12:52
out makes no sense to me. Like this is a Jack car cover
01:12:56
through and through. Like I don't know what it's
01:12:59
doing in the Mid Trap series, and particularly I don't know
01:13:01
what it's doing. For this book, it makes no
01:13:04
sense, but it's probably going to sell like wildfire because
01:13:09
this is the Australia cover. If I saw that cover anywhere in
01:13:13
a bookstore, I'm buying it off the shelf.
01:13:14
So it is objectively a nearly perfect cover.
01:13:18
But if we're judging the cover by the book, it's a travesty.
01:13:23
Maybe that's supposed to represent like this, like
01:13:25
Siberia? Why?
01:13:28
Cuz Russia, like you know, the Russia element of it all, we
01:13:31
never go there. Yeah, I don't know.
01:13:33
I'm just trying to. I'm grasping for straws here,
01:13:35
man. Travesty, dude.
01:13:36
Travesty. Okay.
01:13:38
Now what do you think about Cover D?
01:13:44
Do you know what that is? I don't know.
01:13:45
So that's that library binding one.
01:13:47
I don't know why, but Goodreads, it was listed as one of the
01:13:52
covers. I think it's really cool.
01:13:54
I think I like that it brings in what I would call the Damascus
01:13:58
element or the Syrian element with the buildings to me.
01:14:02
I'll take that any day over the damn fence.
01:14:04
Like to put an actual building that brings me to a village in
01:14:08
Syria. Maybe the house where rap stuffs
01:14:11
the dudes in the compressors. I can't believe we didn't bring
01:14:14
that up like. The garage this transports me
01:14:17
to. That mechanic shot the garage.
01:14:19
Maybe, you know, a mosque on the corner of a little little of a
01:14:22
town, a historical site where the war has been, even where the
01:14:27
negotiations are happening. You know, this is the street
01:14:29
level of one of those buildings where they're negotiating.
01:14:32
Or where him and McGraw are doing the stake out, you know
01:14:35
that that everything right where they capture the transport.
01:14:38
I think this cover of all four is the only one to me that if
01:14:44
we're going to judge a cover by the book passes that test.
01:14:47
Because you mentioned cover A and I like the design, I like
01:14:52
the simplicity. I think it really fits with what
01:14:55
we started with Total power, a very, very crisp 2 tone.
01:15:00
I know there's 333 or four colors here with the yellow, but
01:15:04
it almost feels like it's 2 tone just because the black backdrop.
01:15:08
So I like the design of it, but the fact that the drug messes
01:15:11
with your mind and not your heart, I was led to think this
01:15:16
is some sort of drug that messes with your heart, myocarditis or
01:15:20
or something like that, you know, that touches on those
01:15:23
themes. So the heart meant a lot to me
01:15:26
when we first got this cover. I was like, it's captivating.
01:15:28
Yeah, I thought. I thought like somehow a heart.
01:15:32
Like the heart was going to like come into play and code red too,
01:15:34
right? Like if somebody red lines in
01:15:36
the hospital or something. I thought the code red and the
01:15:39
heart theme and the blood and the beating heart would play a
01:15:42
little more of a role, and it didn't.
01:15:44
The drug cap, the gun, unrelated essentially to that.
01:15:49
Because of that, the cover, when I judge it by the book, falls a
01:15:53
little flatter than just design principles.
01:15:55
It's it's awesome. It's awesome on design
01:15:57
principles like like C cover C, but I don't have a good balance,
01:16:02
a balance of a cover that hits all of those notes and because
01:16:06
of that overall got to give the covers of three.
01:16:12
So I've been I've been writing three 3, 1/2 for like this whole
01:16:15
time. I'm gonna split the difference.
01:16:17
I'm gonna go 3 1/2. OK, Cover C is just freaking
01:16:20
ball. Or that Australian version.
01:16:22
Just too bad it doesn't fit the book at all, I think.
01:16:25
Come on, you might as well have a train going through their
01:16:29
power lines. Honestly, I I think I'd like it
01:16:31
more with power lines just because it had freaking power
01:16:34
lines than I would a snowy mountain.
01:16:41
All right, Chris, final scores. I settle on a 42, you settle on
01:16:46
a 41. Good book, great book, great
01:16:51
ending. Parts of it were absolutely
01:16:52
stellar. 4849 fifty level on a scorecard.
01:16:55
If we were isolating parts of it the last third, I would say the
01:17:00
maybe even the middle third would probably be up there.
01:17:03
But overall I I don't know if it had the complete package.
01:17:08
I think it's in that solid BB plus range.
01:17:11
You don't think it's it's the double our score and that's a
01:17:14
years in 84 -, 82, it's B -, B, B solid B.
01:17:19
So all right. That's code red.
01:17:22
It's kind of sad. In our last Kyle novel, we have
01:17:25
a whole year to wait. Or we could talk about Don.
01:17:29
Well, wait, if we were to talk about him.
01:17:31
We're definitely going to touch you into somebody about his
01:17:33
other books. But whole year to wait before we
01:17:35
get his installment into this into the series.
01:17:38
So got some time. Think about it.
01:17:41
Might want to reread, reread this, Revisit this.
01:17:45
If you haven't had a chance, go check out Fade.
01:17:49
So yeah, what? What are we reading next Mike?
01:17:53
Forget what we put down, but over on Thriller podcast we've
01:17:56
got a lot of different things coming the next few months.
01:17:59
We've got David Mccloskey's Moscow X coming up, couple of
01:18:03
Andrews and Wilson books. I know Sons of Valor 3 is slated
01:18:07
in the next couple of months. We're going back to Assassin in
01:18:10
the Assassin series by Ward Larson with Assassin's Mark in
01:18:14
November. And honestly, we want to cover
01:18:17
Don Bentley. So I think we'll try to squeeze
01:18:19
in at least one of his Clancy verse books, the second one in
01:18:23
his Matt Drake series. Let's keep that going.
01:18:26
And we want to have him back. So we will be on the Thriller
01:18:29
podcast feed in the near future. We'll be back here with Don
01:18:33
Bentley in a little bit after we cover some of his books over
01:18:36
there and then we'll have the Scott Harvath podcast going as
01:18:40
well. We're probably about the halfway
01:18:42
point of that series. So towards the end of this
01:18:45
calendar year, we're going to do a halfway recap of Brad Thor and
01:18:50
the Scott Harvath series, maybe a little ranking of the first
01:18:53
half there and soon enough we'll we did full black.
01:18:57
We'll be working our way towards Spy Master, you know in early
01:19:01
2024. So stick with us all three
01:19:04
feeds. Be sure to be sure to subscribe
01:19:07
to No Limits, the Scott Harvath Podcast and the Thriller podcast
01:19:11
to keep up with us until we return here with Don Bentley on
01:19:15
the Mitch Rap Pod. Go check that out on other
01:19:19
feeds. All right, guys.
01:19:21
We need to thank our patrons, our special operator Sherry F,
01:19:24
our special agents Daryl, Kevin, George, Matt, Dawn, Peggy,
01:19:28
Catherine, Ray, Bridget, Jeff and Mark.
01:19:30
Subscribe by review using your favorite podcasting platform.
01:19:34
You can find us@thrillerpod.com or on Twitter and Instagram at
01:19:37
Thriller Podcast. And as always, just like Kyle be
01:19:42
Kyle, dude, one thing we gotta add
01:19:55
here in the post credits. Can't believe I missed it, we
01:19:59
said earlier. Anna is still 7, and she
01:20:01
actually is. She's in second grade.
01:20:04
Well, second grade is like 8. I think you start second.
01:20:08
Well, it's summer break, right? Because remember, Mitch says
01:20:11
you're going to win the summer book report if I fly her over
01:20:14
Masada. You know, in the Holy Land,
01:20:17
Yeah. So I think she's.
01:20:18
Starting second grade, she's 7. Turning 8 at some point.
01:20:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right.
01:20:27
What we, I guess one more Psps. We didn't, we didn't put this in
01:20:32
perspective. We kind of gave it a score.
01:20:34
We said we would come back and say where we thought
01:20:37
specifically this ranked with Kyle's books.
01:20:41
So we do you want to quickly redo the order again?
01:20:44
Like what? What is your number one Kyle
01:20:45
book? Yeah, did we did Kyle's rankings
01:20:48
right? Do we have that to to refer back
01:20:50
to? Do we do that as an episode?
01:20:53
I feel like we did. I think we did.
01:20:54
I think we did. We do that when Kyle's and Kyle
01:20:58
announced he was leaving. Maybe we didn't.
01:21:02
Oh yeah, we have it ranking Kyle's books.
01:21:04
We did it. Episode 113 our thank you Kyle.
01:21:07
Episode. Oh, we did.
01:21:10
We just we just did. We've only, I guess when we
01:21:12
found out that that Kyle was leaving, we decided to do that.
01:21:14
All right. So you put we both put Lethal
01:21:17
Agent, we both put Survivor, we both put enemy at the gates.
01:21:21
Then it started to get a little wonky.
01:21:24
You put out the loyalty, would you, would you keep that there,
01:21:28
Mike? I think I'm keeping Enemy at the
01:21:31
Gates and Oath of Loyalty together in the 3-4 spot because
01:21:34
I honestly think of them as one book.
01:21:36
I think of them as the cooks book the cookbook.
01:21:40
I put Enemy of the State, I put order to kill.
01:21:45
I was low on the oath of loyalty.
01:21:48
And then we read War and I didn't like total power.
01:21:51
We kind of flip-flopped, like you can put Red War in total
01:21:54
power. Like kind of back-to-back.
01:21:56
Yeah, I think Enemy of the State in order to kill if I reread
01:22:00
them, maybe could bump up at some point.
01:22:05
But regardless, how do you slot code red in here?
01:22:10
This is tough. This is tough.
01:22:13
When I read it, not considering the audio book, which boy that
01:22:18
that's, that's coming soon? That'll come, people.
01:22:20
That'll come not considering it. Clear up the decks for that one.
01:22:25
When I read this book, I was up and down like a roller coaster.
01:22:29
But the highs of this book when I was reading it for the first
01:22:32
time were super high. So we had our quibbles.
01:22:37
We mentioned it on the on the last few episodes, but when this
01:22:40
book was clicking, it was clicking to the point of I might
01:22:45
put it. 3rd sounds crazy because I love the animated The Gates.
01:22:52
Maybe you're right. I have to bump down Oath of
01:22:55
Loyalty and put this one in the four spot.
01:22:59
So I was thinking, alright, is it better than Total Power?
01:23:01
Yes. Is it better than Red War?
01:23:03
Yes. Is it better than Oath of
01:23:06
Loyalty? Probably yes.
01:23:08
Yes, Yeah. Is it better than order to kill?
01:23:13
From what I remember, yes, but if I reread it, I'm not sure
01:23:18
that's our Grecia, that's Grecia's introduction.
01:23:23
And that final set piece where he fights Grecia better than
01:23:26
enemy at the state. I feel like this I.
01:23:28
Don't think so. I think it's like right at Enemy
01:23:30
of the State, because I really like that book.
01:23:31
It's a team up. It's kind of like a side quest.
01:23:34
I think you're right. So if I could redo this, I think
01:23:38
you're right. I was going to keep them
01:23:39
together. Not better than Enemy at the
01:23:40
gates. No, not better than Survivor.
01:23:43
The survivor. Not better lately.
01:23:45
Which means it has to be the 4-5 or six slot.
01:23:49
Question is, what do I do with Oath of Loyalty and Enemy of the
01:23:51
State? I'd have to reread both to be
01:23:53
honest, before I know I'm going to play it safe and put in the
01:23:57
five spot right now with potential to move to four.
01:24:01
I think it's a good, good. I think I'm also going to put in
01:24:03
the five spot, yeah, Yeah. Five spot out of nine, for sure.
01:24:06
Yeah. I think if I reread order to
01:24:09
kill an enemy of the enemy of the state, I think it those two
01:24:13
have potential to go up. I just.
01:24:15
The Grisha Azarov scene in order to kill when he's fighting.
01:24:21
Was that BB Kincaid? Also?
01:24:22
No. She's in the Survivor for sure.
01:24:25
She's in total power. She makes a return to that
01:24:28
diner. She's.
01:24:29
Out Fred Mason wasn't in this one I know well we cuz we we
01:24:34
just had a Scott was the Scott was the the helicopter pilot so.
01:24:39
And Fred Mason was baller and animate the gates.
01:24:42
So, yes, yes. Yeah, Kylus doesn't, doesn't
01:24:47
like the tap. He likes like using people and
01:24:50
then coming back to them, you know?
01:24:53
And we didn't have Marcus Demond.
01:24:57
I'm gonna leave it at that. If you guys could have seen my
01:25:00
face, I don't know why does I guess just Kyle just really just
01:25:04
didn't like that character so. I don't know but when we
01:25:06
recorded with Kyle I wasn't gonna push but when he flat out
01:25:09
denied the Marcus is a live theory.
01:25:11
Or. Or that was Marcus theory.
01:25:13
Oh well, let's hope Marcus is alive.
01:25:15
But my face, I, I I don't know. I kind of say you should have.
01:25:19
I saw it. I saw you like quickly like
01:25:22
like. My whole effect changed, dude.
01:25:24
Then you went back to podcast like like smiley you were like.
01:25:29
I yeah, my face changed. Was it resting bitch face?
01:25:33
I think so it was. I'm missing Mark.
01:25:35
You were just like. Oh, OK.
01:25:39
OK. And then we try to move it.
01:25:44
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was funny.
01:25:49
So.