Chris and Mike break down the second half of Capture or Kill by Don Bentley! Warning: Major Mike rant incoming! Hint: It’s about Marcus Dumond.
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00:00:13
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
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Wait. Wait, wait.
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No, no, you're you're not Mike. You are Daddy Mike.
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Daddy Teeny. Welcome back to this week's No
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Limits, the Mitrap podcast. Big news, guys.
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Big, big news. The Double Daddy Podcast You got
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2 dads talking into your ears on these microphones here tonight
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for the first time in podcast history.
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First time in no limits podcast history 2 dads.
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You need to you need to you need to get on my level though you're
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you're only a one, but you'll get there eventually.
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Yeah, Like, sorry we haven't posted this second part of the
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pod. Mike's been very busy.
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I've been busy too, but Mike's. Although I was not the reason we
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cancelled our our recording two weeks ago.
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Just gonna put that out there. I was gonna record like 2 days
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before the baby came but. Yes, I had AI had an unfortunate
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work trip that I had to go to Europe and I had to wine and
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dine with my colleagues and so the seven hour time difference
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that's that's really bad. It's it's tough.
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So especially with you work. So anyways, we're we're here
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now. We've saved a lot of our takes.
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Obviously, if you haven't listened to our Part 1 up well,
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let me back up. We're talking about Don Bentley
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first book Vince Flynn capture kill.
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If you haven't listened to Part 1, pause it go back listen to
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Part 1. I think you'll list you'll
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listen to us and hear we greatly enjoyed the first half of this
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book and I'm I'm super excited to get into the second-half of
00:01:52
this book. I think there are there are
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definite highs, definite lows. I don't quite know where this
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book like falls for me. It you know, it's not, I'm just
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going to stay off the bat. It's definitely not low, low
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tier, but it I I don't know where it fits in the overall
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story. And I think part of that is
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Don's decision to put this book in like a historical context by
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doing this. I don't is it a prequel?
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Is it technically a prequel? Like is it just inserting in the
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timeline? It's, it's very strange.
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Yeah. Super excited to get your your
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feedback. On the second-half of the book,
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absolutely. And I mean, like you said, we
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might have a little bit of a different flair, a different
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flavor than we did in Part 1. I'm still really high on this
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book. Like you're saying when we rank
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it, that that's going to be tough.
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I'm in my mind this one could totally be up there and you
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know, towards the the top end of things, it could also kind of
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slip into the middle of the pack.
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So I'm not totally determined on where I sit with the book in the
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end. I think a lot of things you and
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I hash out here tonight might clean up some of my hesitations
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or issues that I had. But there are also some glaring,
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absolutely glaring problems staring me in the face after
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reading this book. And I can't ignore them.
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And, and a couple of them, which we'll get to I, I have a fire
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burning inside me right now. A couple of them are so bad.
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Dare I say unforgivable? Possibly unforgivable.
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So I'm, I'm going to push back on that.
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I'm I'm going to try to say when we get to them, I'm going to say
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that like there's there's some things we can take from these
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and I don't overall super happy with this book, Super happy with
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a first with his first pass at at trying to tackle this.
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And I guess just diving right into it.
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I think. What do you think of the choice
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of deciding to do this? Quote UN quote?
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Prequel. Yeah.
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I mean, that's a great question. I was nervous.
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We said that on Part 1. We said that on this pods.
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We said that on all the pods we did like when it was announced.
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It could have been a strange thing.
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And I see the occasional Facebook post on Mike and Ash.
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What's he doing here? Thought he was dead, You know,
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is this new author really changing the series and just
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undoing things? So sure, there's some confusion
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out there. Are they probably your very
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tangential readers who, who don't keep up with the social
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media and the blog posts and the emails?
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Probably. Are they going to read the book?
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Yes. Those minor confusions I feel
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like are just, you know, par for the course.
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It's going to happen. It's it's no big deal.
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I thought the bigger problem could be if this thing falls
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through, we now have got this curveball that exists in the
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series that we kind of want to ignore, but you can't ignore.
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And that's not the case at all. It slots in very, very well.
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And that's one of the biggest winners of this book is that Don
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swung for the fences, did something he was passionate
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about. Oh, and by the way, when we get
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there, my rants that that are incoming that I am tabling for
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now at at your request, they have nothing to do with Don.
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I will say I think it's a wider kind of thing slipping through
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the cracks beyond one author writing the story.
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They're kind of some other other things going on influencing them
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that I think allowed the problem to happen.
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So they're not squarely on Don. But Don's choice to put the book
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where he saw best and he thought a story was missing and he felt
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in his bones, he said. What was Rapp doing during the
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bin Laden raid like? What was?
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The question after Irene Kennedy got captured, tortured and he
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saved her. We can't just move on from those
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two things pretending that those couple of years just like didn't
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have a massive impact on who these characters were and and
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their careers. You know, they're both committed
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to this country protecting and defending it to to throw that in
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there. And these major events happened.
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ACIA director is kidnapped. You can even throw in extreme
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measures, right? They attack Capitol Hill, a few
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restaurants and the the NCTC, their successful terrorist
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attacks. Bin Laden's still on the loose.
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We got him. How could you not have Irene
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Kennedy and Mitrap responding to that?
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I would have never really considered that and Don did and
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he said I'm going to tell that story boldly walked into it.
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Now, the Bin Laden stuff, when there's a particular scene and
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maybe I'm jumping the gun, but when Mitch Rapp plays Cable Guy
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or Electric Meter Maid, when Mitch wraps the meter maid and
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he gets into the compound and Noreen's thing fails and and
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they're going to abduct Noreen inside the compound.
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I was like, is this really what we're doing here?
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That whole sequence felt forced just to say we've got to get
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Mitch into a bottle bed. We got to have him doing
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something with the bin Laden raid.
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And to me, I'm thinking, oh shit, we're going to change the
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whole story. You know, the Seals, the night
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time operation, the choppers crossing the border in the
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Situation Room, that little conference room where the
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everyone, you know, you remember Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama
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and the whole cabinet, essentially the whole security,
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national security team. Watching the video feed, I'm
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like, are we just going to pretend that whole thing didn't
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happen and instead Mitch Rapp is the only one who can save the
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day and get bin Laden? I was like, are we really going
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there? And then Don perfectly pulls a
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180. And, and honestly, one of my
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favorite things about the book is how that's tied into the
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Ashanti storyline with the Quds Force and their capabilities to
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basically put shoulder fired heat seeking nighttime missiles
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that can lock onto American choppers into Afghanistan.
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That being tied into Mitrap needing to save the day to
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protect the Seals, going in to get Bin Laden and doing that in
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the shadows. There is nothing more Mitrap
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than him saving the day in the shadows, protecting at the last
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second the seals on those choppers.
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So that they can get. Bin Laden and nobody knows, and
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him and Irene and Stan are the only ones in the world.
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And Derek, that the helicopter pilot is awesome.
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They're the only people in the world who know that Mitch did
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that. It's the most Mitch rap thing
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ever. And I was nervous Don was going
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to have him infiltrate the compound, kill Bin Laden himself
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and undo the whole history. And instead, everything came
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together. And that final sequence was just
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a fun ride. It saved the bin Laden stuff.
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It slotted in perfectly to where Mitch, Irene, Mike Nash, all are
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at this point in the universe. Don, hats off to you to pull
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that off. That's perfect.
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And that is a genius, brilliant move.
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And I was nervous about it, but he did it.
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Yeah, and I think something that I said before on the on the pod
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when we first found out the plot was I was trying to grapple with
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why would you choose to do this, right?
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And part of my reasoning was, well, you can choose to go after
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both Kyle and Vince. And Kyle has obviously taken
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Mitch to a new place, you know, in Code Red.
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He's with his family. He's, you know, he's, he's a
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changed man and you inserting another author into that stage
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you have, you not only have to deal with that, then you also
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have to take into all the implications of the history that
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Vince built. And I, I can see how that would
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be a a challenging next step. You know, and in a sense that
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almost kind of sets you up for a little bit more failure where
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like you could you could completely fall flat where like
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you're going to piss off not only Vince Flynn fans, but
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you're going to piss off people that like liked what Kyle Mills
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did, you know, and we don't know where he's going to go in the
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future. But I think choosing to go here
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and not having to grapple with a lot of the stuff that that Kyle
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did and just focusing on. All right, I'm taking this up
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from Vince essentially. And like you said, picking at a
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point in time where we have no context for what Irene, Mitch,
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Mike Nash, Stan were doing during this time.
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And it's an obvious question to think, well, of course, like the
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CIA played a role in this. So it, you know, what, what
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would they be doing? And I think you said it
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perfectly in, in the sense that Don does a great job at
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connecting to like past events. I I think like some of the great
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like part of it, like the epilogue and getting, you know,
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the connection between Mitch and Irene and addressing, you know,
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the elephant in the room that is her capture and how she's having
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these panic attacks. I, I think that's, it's
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beautiful and it, it, it, it, it's great.
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Like unexperienced author wouldn't have that in there.
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And I think that takes it to the next level.
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I think also the second point is Mike Nash essentially seating
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more Nuggets to further explain what, what Mike Nash's ultimate
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future is. You know, we're we're getting
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like even more foreshadowing building upon this.
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You know, we're just in Mike Nash's new role and we're seeing
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like how he's fumbling and how we're in Irene's mind and seeing
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like, oh, did I make the right choice?
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He's going to have to be, he can't be acting like this if
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he's going to, you know, be doing this.
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And then, you know, seeing how he's resentful towards rap and,
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you know, various instances where he, he wishes he wasn't
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the politician he was, you know, running out the door with rap to
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go capture Crankshaft. And then your Third Point, I was
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really worried about, you know, 'cause we, we got the tagline
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right where it's like, we knew Ashanti was going to play a
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role, but we also knew that obviously Crankshaft and Bin
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Laden was going to play a big role.
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And I'm like, how the hell are these two going to connect?
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Right? Exactly.
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And I was really worried, like you said, Mitch, that he's going
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to put Mitch to be to save the day, change the story.
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It's not the seal night. You know, like I love the movie
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0 dot dirty. I love, like, you know, seeing
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all that happen and IA 100% agree with you that that middle
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portion where where in a Bottabad with Doreen with Mitch
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like that. It's just it wasn't clicking for
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me. And then it Don again does a 180
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and we get to the ending and the ultimate ending is, like you
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said, Mitch being this shadow force that saves the day in a
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different way. I it was freaking brilliant,
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man. OK, I thought that was the best
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way to do it. You know, it, it makes perfect
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sense. It's fully in character with
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everybody. So I think those three things,
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the connection with Irene and Mitch, getting the the Mike Nash
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story right, and then also perfectly playing how Mitch
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plays a role in this knocked it out of the park, dude.
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Yeah, you're absolutely right. And that dawned on me what you
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just said when we were recording Part 1 and I still didn't get
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it. You know, halfway through this
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book, I'm like, OK, the Iranians have this scary missile thing.
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They could shoot down our choppers.
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I get why Irene and Mitch would be upset about this.
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And and it upsets the Apple Car and oh, my God, big problem.
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We got to stop it. And then all of a sudden
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something clicked. And I go, oh, my God, the Bin
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Laden raid. I was like choppers at night
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time. I was like, holy cow.
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And the second that clicked for me, maybe I'm just slow.
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And for most people, when they heard about it clicked right
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away. But I was like, this is the
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perfect way to get Mitch on the ground, like you said, to save
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the day at the last minute, the 11th hour.
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Meanwhile, we should also talk Scott Coleman and and team are
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trying to track down the missiles.
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And they do successfully. They have their own OP where
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they have to, you know, convince this this regimen at Jalalabad
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to basically team up with them and give them the air support
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and fly them in and do Recon trying to find these trucks in
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this caravan. I'm like, is this a bit of a
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Side Story? I want to see Scott with Rap.
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I want to see them operating together.
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But it wasn't a Side Story because they stopped the
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caravan, but two missiles were missing.
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And we know Ruentan. Ruentan is still on the loose.
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He pretty good villain in the end.
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He's still on the loose. And so it all just kind of
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started connecting as we were reading.
00:14:15
And you're right to talk about whether it's Irene or Mike Nash
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or even Rap himself. All of the characters Don got
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right. He did his research on who they
00:14:26
are. I mean, just listen to this
00:14:28
description here of of rap and like it would be very easy to
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get rap wrong and kind of make him the Super killer.
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And you know, all the stuff that he wrote about with Matt Drake,
00:14:39
Matt Drake going through PTSD and stuff.
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It's like you could have put your own spin on rap and and
00:14:45
wanted to make rap your own. And instead I think he really
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doubled down and said, I'm going to make rap who Vince made him
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and and knew he was. And look at what he says, quote.
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What made Rap unique wasn't just his skill at waging death, it
00:15:00
was that it didn't morally or psychologically stain him.
00:15:04
Rap slept soundly at night not because he was a psychopath, but
00:15:08
because he believed in the absolute righteousness of his
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cause and the undeniable depravity of those he haunted.
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Rap never killed a man who didn't deserve to die any more
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than he allowed a threat to his nation to continue to draw
00:15:20
breath. Until now.
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It's like that's the rap, that's the definition, the description
00:15:27
we would want of rap. And then the Irene Kennedy, I've
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actually talked to a couple people and and and few were of
00:15:34
the opinion this is not Irene. She's trembling, she's shaking.
00:15:38
You know, one of the chiefs, you know, touches her and she's
00:15:40
she's like broken about it. And then on the app, she has to
00:15:43
remind herself, I have to make important decisions.
00:15:45
I can't have a panic attack now. Well, no, protect and defend
00:15:49
just happened. And like, let's be reasonable
00:15:52
and rap has to be the one to steady her at the end.
00:15:55
So you get Irene, right? And then Nash.
00:15:57
Nash had his moment. He was playing diplomat.
00:15:59
He was going to this meeting. He was trying to, you know,
00:16:02
ruffle feathers, but he was making some missteps.
00:16:05
He has to be the one to get the brush pass hand off when he's
00:16:09
taken on that art gallery, that tour in the in the building to
00:16:11
the art gallery. So he has to kind of put on his
00:16:15
spy, not an operator's spy kind of persona, but a diplomat who
00:16:21
can still be in the espionage game and still pass along the
00:16:24
information you need to pass on. And then I love how he's drawn
00:16:28
into an op with the airplane scene, 'cause dude, we're going
00:16:31
to have to spend some time. If Noreen's role kind of
00:16:34
faltered in the Abatabad complex, her role was amazing
00:16:39
when they tracked down that airport security guy who she had
00:16:43
to shake down for the uniforms and the badges, And then
00:16:46
eventually when she had to storm the plane and get the pilots out
00:16:49
of the way so Rap can do his thing.
00:16:51
What an amazing scene with those planes taxiing and blocking the
00:16:56
runway so they can't, you know, extradite Ashanti.
00:16:59
It's amazing. And what made it even better was
00:17:02
Rap had to kind of coordinate with Nash and talk to him.
00:17:05
And Nash kind of got his feet wet.
00:17:08
And even though Noreen died, Rap and Nash had to have this moment
00:17:11
of like, remember, you're an operator, you have to stay in
00:17:14
the game. And Nash was Nash
00:17:15
compartmentalized her dying, even though she was basically
00:17:18
his asset or his officer, I should say, who he was running
00:17:22
and he should feel really responsible for that.
00:17:25
Also, we didn't see it on page that also was going to lead to
00:17:29
his demise once it registers. Noreen died on his watch.
00:17:33
Mitch even says to Mike, you did a good job, but Mitch didn't
00:17:37
want to say it. Like he wasn't going to just say
00:17:39
good job, Mike. Mitch had to say it because he
00:17:42
realized Nash was fragile and Nash didn't even receive that
00:17:45
well. Nash was like, oh, it feels
00:17:47
great to know that Mitch is telling me good job, but he's
00:17:50
like, I don't need to hear that shit.
00:17:52
It was just kind of, it was a very awkward Mitch trying to be
00:17:55
polite and like, I know you're Mr. Suit now, but I'm going to
00:17:58
tell you a good job on getting your hands dirty to clean up the
00:18:00
plane and, you know, contact Irene and pass everything on.
00:18:03
And it was just very awkward. And that I think definitely
00:18:06
indicates how Mike is struggling to forgive rap.
00:18:09
He's struggling to be out of the game.
00:18:11
And this role is really psychologically doing a number
00:18:14
on him. Yeah.
00:18:16
He got it all right, Don got it all right.
00:18:18
No, I, I think it's, you know, I think it's also a useful tool of
00:18:24
Ashanti, you know, like. Yes.
00:18:26
We always wondered like, what the hell happened to Ashanti?
00:18:28
And now we know, like, he got the sickness makes sense from
00:18:32
being in the Istahan facility. I love, like, bringing it back
00:18:36
to that and even bringing it back to the sense of, oh,
00:18:40
there's people out there that, you know, Rap didn't kill.
00:18:42
Obviously he got, you know, the top players, but there are some
00:18:45
other people that were still involved that he thought he had
00:18:47
sent a message. And you know, it's there's
00:18:51
things that were mentioned in passing in the last man that but
00:18:57
Vince just decided not to, you know, fully dive deep into
00:19:00
these. And I it's interesting to to go
00:19:01
back to the certain things. And of course, of course, like
00:19:05
if, if this was ATV show, they would have 100% dive into
00:19:11
Irene's mental stability for sure being captured.
00:19:14
Like that's, that's just, you know, that's bait.
00:19:16
That's, that's, that's like the kibble, like, you know, they
00:19:18
just eat it up all day. So anyone that's out there
00:19:22
saying that this is not Irene, I think, you know, doesn't
00:19:25
understand. And I think that's what he does
00:19:28
well. What Don does well, and what
00:19:29
we've definitely picked up as a positive thing in his other
00:19:32
novels is this idea to connect with PT Things like PTSD, things
00:19:38
like trauma, that kind of stuff. A quote about that actually,
00:19:42
because that also speaks to, I think what we needed Don to
00:19:47
bring to this series, which we already said in Part 1 is the
00:19:50
military expertise, you know, as a, as a helicopter pilot dude,
00:19:54
he, he, he definitely inserts himself in that valley end here
00:19:58
very well, though. I will say like there was times
00:20:01
where I'm reading it, maybe just because I knew those kind of
00:20:05
took me out of it a little bit. I loved it.
00:20:07
I loved it, but I could definitely I could definitely
00:20:09
see him shifting more to his voice than like trying to melt
00:20:13
with. Vince's voice, but obviously
00:20:15
he's an author. He's going to, he's going to do
00:20:17
that. So.
00:20:18
And we hashed that out in Part 1 when we said the military talk
00:20:20
was a little heavy, the radio chatter was a little heavy.
00:20:23
The the code, every time he brings up an Apache pilot, you
00:20:26
you know he does it because that's what he did.
00:20:28
He even he ended a chapter at one point where Mitch is saying
00:20:31
thank God for helicopter pilots or something like that.
00:20:34
So. We already said he may be a
00:20:37
little heavy-handed, but ultimately it's good for the
00:20:40
series to have a little more of that military.
00:20:43
Jargon because it was cool, but most of the interactions with
00:20:47
the helicopters, the action sequences with the helicopters,
00:20:50
with the military, they're awesome so.
00:20:53
Like whether it's Stan jumping off the helicopter while it's
00:20:56
still hovering, like. If they fell flat, they weren't
00:20:59
interesting, then I'm like, well, why did you put this in
00:21:02
here? But.
00:21:02
They like, dude, what are you doing?
00:21:03
Same thing with Will Bentley, him putting his son on Scott
00:21:06
Coleman's team. I, I don't know if I, I
00:21:10
explicitly said this in Part 1, but I, I kind of had this
00:21:13
reservation of like, you got to earn that shit, man.
00:21:15
Like it's your first book. You got to earn that shit.
00:21:17
This is. Not you also put put the Connor
00:21:19
Sullivan in there. Connor Sullivan, a fellow
00:21:21
author, probably a friend, I'm guessing.
00:21:24
I, I my first reaction to those was one of hesitation.
00:21:26
I was like, dude, you know, it's not your universe.
00:21:29
And, and the way I think of it is you're the steward.
00:21:31
You are the caretaker of what Vince made.
00:21:34
You can't really jump right in and put yourself in that much,
00:21:37
but he did it well. It it was tasteful.
00:21:39
I thought Will was a great character.
00:21:41
Great addition. I liked him too so.
00:21:42
I want to know why he's not around.
00:21:44
So I do think if Don gives us more in the future, it it should
00:21:48
address that. And he did earn it.
00:21:50
But my first reaction was, dude, you can't do that.
00:21:53
You got to earn putting your own kid in the book.
00:21:54
And then I'm like, not you know what?
00:21:55
He's the fucking author. You know what, just go for it,
00:21:58
dude. And he did it well.
00:21:59
And it was a lot of fun with Scott.
00:22:00
We talked about that Part 1, the whole rescue operation for the
00:22:04
Ranger, perfectly done. So I'm OK with it, but but I was
00:22:08
going to say Don's approach with the military stuff also takes on
00:22:12
a deeper level. Like you were saying
00:22:14
emotionally, the way he works in PTSD for Nash and and Irene and
00:22:18
these signs and the epilogue, how how Mitch and Irene have to
00:22:22
have that conversation and no one better than Mitch to know
00:22:24
how someone in a high stress position like that has to deal
00:22:27
with grief. So I thought that was perfect
00:22:30
and to set it with Tommy's lacrosse game.
00:22:32
And he brings up Anna. He brings up Anna.
00:22:35
He talks about him processing because this is the stage of the
00:22:38
series where he's basically done processing where rap has gotten
00:22:42
back in the game. You know, extreme measures
00:22:44
really I think made him wake up and say America's going to get
00:22:47
hit if guys like me are not at the top of their game.
00:22:50
So he's he's back, you know, Mitch is back, but you're still
00:22:54
able to bring it up to help a colleague and a friend and
00:22:56
Irene, even if it's not affecting Mitch during the
00:22:59
story, like Mitch during the story doesn't have to wallow in
00:23:01
his grief and go, I don't know if I could do this.
00:23:03
No, but he has to tell Irene. Look, I know what you're going
00:23:07
through. You know I'm here for you.
00:23:09
But I love that, he says. I failed them, but I'm never
00:23:13
going to fail you. That was a powerful quote And I
00:23:19
I loved how it it dives deep in. I think you feel like it's
00:23:23
strengthens Irene and Mitch's relationship.
00:23:26
Did that one sentence. It was I, I, I listened to that
00:23:30
at the end, read it at the end and it's just, I was like, wow,
00:23:33
that that's powerful, man. That was a great conversation
00:23:36
and and that drives rapt from his very origins.
00:23:39
He not felt responsible, but he wanted that revenge or that
00:23:43
retribution for Marine's death. You know, with the Lockerbie
00:23:47
bombing, he he almost is like, I am not going to stop.
00:23:50
You know, failure is not an option.
00:23:52
I'm I'm not going to let them do this again.
00:23:55
And over his career, the terrorists keep doing it again.
00:23:58
And we just get to see Mitch's response to that here.
00:24:00
But I was going to say the soldiers take is shown in that
00:24:05
in that depth of emotion and on the reflection of what was it
00:24:10
all for? That's brought up really well
00:24:13
with Scott during an op where he's thinking like, what the
00:24:16
hell are we still doing here in Afghanistan?
00:24:19
And he connects it to Vietnam. And we know that Don is the
00:24:22
favorite thing that we've read of his.
00:24:24
His absolute best writing, even beyond capture Kill to me is
00:24:28
Forgotten War. Yes, it's his treatise.
00:24:31
If you haven't had a chance to go, listen to our pod and
00:24:33
Forgotten War goes into it. And, and read the book.
00:24:35
What is it the 4th metric book or third metric book?
00:24:39
It it's one of the best books we've read this year, maybe on
00:24:42
the pod period. And it's a tribute to the men
00:24:46
and women who gave their lives in Afghanistan.
00:24:48
And it's almost a lament of what happened with the withdrawal
00:24:52
from someone who was very personally connected to that
00:24:55
conflict. Well, he gets to write that for
00:24:57
Scott Coleman. And Scott Coleman is sometimes 1
00:24:59
dimensional. And we need Scott Coleman to be
00:25:02
1 dimensional and he just. Has to be the jokester.
00:25:05
He's the pillar. He's he's just going to do the
00:25:07
OP. He's going to crack some jokes,
00:25:09
but he's going to be no nonsense to get the job done.
00:25:11
And Irene leans on him. But we're given this very quick
00:25:14
moment where he's saying, what the hell are we still doing
00:25:17
here? And he connected to Vietnam with
00:25:19
this quote. Coleman was nowhere near old
00:25:22
enough to have experienced Vietnam, but as a young frog
00:25:25
man, he'd known several senior chiefs who had.
00:25:27
While he hadn't doubted their observations on what it was like
00:25:30
to serve in the long, unpopular, and ultimately unsuccessful war,
00:25:34
Coleman had never been able to come to terms with the
00:25:36
conflict's outcome. How could America piss away the
00:25:39
lives of 55 of her sons and daughters over 7 bloody years
00:25:44
and still settle for defeat? It had never made sense to him
00:25:46
then, it was starting to now. That's a great reflection for
00:25:51
Scott Coleman to have it. It's quick, it's deep, but then
00:25:54
Scott goes back to being Scott, but on the back of his mind is
00:25:57
like, is this very similar to Vietnam?
00:25:59
And we know Don's thoughts on that from Forgotten War.
00:26:02
He drew a lot of parallels and that book was powerful.
00:26:06
I love to see Scott going through that.
00:26:07
It gives the depth to someone actually in the military on the
00:26:11
ground, like a Scott Coleman, who maybe we haven't seen that
00:26:14
depth from before. Yeah, 100% and it's good.
00:26:17
There's also this other interaction between Scott and
00:26:22
and Mitch and in in my mind, for some reason, I just imagine like
00:26:26
them sitting outside of like a a bee Hut on on in Bob Fenty and
00:26:31
Mitch is just like looking out into the desert and he says, I
00:26:35
think we're going to lose, we're going to lose this.
00:26:38
That's right. And he's like what the the
00:26:41
Ranger and Mitch's answer is no, the whole war, the whole thing,
00:26:46
like the whole thing like that was.
00:26:49
It's obviously, you know, now that we did kind of, you know,
00:26:56
ultimately it was unsuccessful like we pulled out and Taliban
00:26:59
came back in and now Afghanistan is what it is.
00:27:02
So it's just that deep reflection.
00:27:06
I think only a Don Bentley could add that, you know, maybe even a
00:27:11
Jack car could, could add something like that to it
00:27:15
because they've been through it. It's it's personal.
00:27:16
And I think that that that's what Don brings to this series.
00:27:19
That's what I like to see it. So I hope to see a lot more
00:27:22
going forward. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:23
Got it. Got to get kudos to that.
00:27:25
So we talked about a few things that Don brought to the series
00:27:28
that clearly shows his own spin. Yeah.
00:27:32
But can we talk about something that shows he absolutely gets
00:27:35
Vince fun? Rap knocks out the Department of
00:27:39
Agriculture guy. Oh yeah, that's that's a total
00:27:42
Mitch rapping character A. 100% old school rap.
00:27:44
That is just old school rap right there.
00:27:46
It's perfect. Yeah.
00:27:48
It's like Captain Lee Linden. I think extreme measures when he
00:27:51
hurts that guy. I mean, there's, there's plenty
00:27:54
of there's. Countless rap on the Hill.
00:27:56
How many times in Capitol Hill is he mouthing off of these
00:27:59
politicians? And now it's a Department of
00:28:00
Agriculture weenie, I think he calls them.
00:28:03
Who's in charge of the redevelopment plan or the?
00:28:07
It's right after that interaction.
00:28:08
That's where he's talking to to Scott and says, I think we're
00:28:10
going to lose this. Yeah.
00:28:11
Yep, Yep. And I think Scott pulls him away
00:28:14
from the conflict. I think Scott's the one he's
00:28:16
chilling with or gets him out of there.
00:28:18
So Speaking of like getting things right, bringing in the
00:28:22
past, you know, there's a lot Don does a good job of
00:28:26
mentioning a lot of like instances from the series.
00:28:31
You know, we get a hint to when he was captured by the Hezbollah
00:28:35
Allah American assassin. We get a like, oh, that was the
00:28:39
guy who saves on some, some, you know, the United States from a
00:28:43
nuke Memorial Day. Memorial Day.
00:28:45
We even get like a bunch of references where he flat out
00:28:48
inserts book titles like, you know, extreme measures protect
00:28:53
and defend, you know, like you just I mean, it's it's easy to
00:28:57
do, but you know, it was nice to see and I definitely picked up
00:29:00
on that. You know, we get some some heavy
00:29:03
characters later on in this book.
00:29:04
Allah amarcus Allah A Stan Hurley and I I.
00:29:08
You're winding me up, Chris. You're.
00:29:10
Winding me up so I know what you're going to say.
00:29:12
I know what you're going to say. I was highly disappointed when I
00:29:16
heard Stephen Webber say Marcus Drummond, but I will caveat that
00:29:23
by saying what was the one thing?
00:29:26
What was the one thing we said needed to be in this book?
00:29:31
Well, we wanted a Marcus. I wanted a Marcus mansion.
00:29:33
We needed a Marcus mansion. We got that.
00:29:35
I would say check 2. I think Marcus's role in this.
00:29:42
Really, I I I absolute throw away.
00:29:44
IA 100% disagree. I think it it makes sense.
00:29:49
Obviously he calls him to do something.
00:29:51
He can't do it because they're they're messing up the, you
00:29:54
know, the, the signals and then it's a way to to not ignore the
00:29:59
character. Now I wanna ask you, if they had
00:30:02
gotten his last name right, would you still be upset?
00:30:06
Like that I'd be I'd be way less upset.
00:30:07
OK, let me just let me just lay this out for the folks.
00:30:10
What is? That is, it is.
00:30:11
It is a big. Let me lay this.
00:30:13
Out it's a big problem that they got to say wrong, but I wanna
00:30:16
know. I might call it an unforgivable
00:30:18
problem. I wanna know who.
00:30:19
Who let that slip though? Who let that slip?
00:30:21
If there is not a press release published on the Vince Flynn
00:30:25
website sent out to the followers on their e-mail
00:30:29
listserv. If it is not a press release on
00:30:32
letterhead from somebody taking the this is like the Secret
00:30:35
Service with the assassination attempt.
00:30:36
If they don't take the blame, we're going to drag them to the
00:30:39
hill. We're going to put them through
00:30:41
the Inquisition. Because let me tell you, this
00:30:43
one is so bad for that not only. And like I said, I'm not going
00:30:47
to blame this on Don, not to be in the first draft, whatever you
00:30:51
spell names wrong and actually. It was in the hard copy.
00:30:53
Dude, the arc. So I'm reading the arc and it
00:30:55
pissed me off when I saw that. But in my mind, I just go,
00:30:58
that's fine. It's like one of the first
00:31:00
drafts. I'm I'm sure they rushed this
00:31:01
thing 'cause they wanted the ambassadors to have fun with
00:31:03
that. No problem.
00:31:05
So the arc had a ton of mistakes.
00:31:06
I don't fault anybody for that. That's how a first draft goes,
00:31:09
I'm sure. But the big mistake to spell
00:31:12
Marcus's name wrong? Marcus Drummond, not Marcus du
00:31:17
Mond. And I went through Kindle.
00:31:20
I opened up every book in the series.
00:31:22
I did a search for Drummond. Drummond, Do you know how many
00:31:29
hits I got published in the Mitch Rap universe for Marcus
00:31:33
Drummond 0? Chris, I got zero hits.
00:31:36
You know why? Because it's not his fucking
00:31:37
name. It's Marcus Dumond and it's Bin
00:31:41
Marcus Dumond. And we know.
00:31:43
We know. Chris, you wound me up.
00:31:45
I'm not going to stop right now. I hope I don't wake the baby.
00:31:50
You know, Vince and his dyslexia, there were a few
00:31:54
things where he changed the names.
00:31:55
Right. Did that's what I was going to
00:31:57
push back on. I was going to put back really
00:31:58
and really and O'Reilly. So if Don is playing some 8D
00:32:03
chess, not 3D chess, not 4D chess, 8D chess, to spell
00:32:07
Marcus's name wrong as a tribute to Anna really versus Anna
00:32:11
Riley. Because Vince spelled it one way
00:32:13
and Kyle spelled it the other. I will absolutely eat my hat.
00:32:17
This hat I'm wearing right here. I will eat it.
00:32:18
I will digest it. I will cut it into small pieces
00:32:22
and wash it down with pink lemonade.
00:32:24
But if if that was not an intentional move to honor the
00:32:28
Anna really Anna Riley thing, If it was just a fuck up, someone
00:32:31
needs to take the blame. We need a press release because
00:32:35
you put it in a first draft, no problem.
00:32:36
You publish it in an ARC. Minor problem.
00:32:39
I went to my hardcover copy the day it was mailed to me just to
00:32:42
check if Marcus Demann's name was fixed.
00:32:44
It was not fixed in the hardcover.
00:32:46
I then said OK, wait, you know what?
00:32:48
Pub day. Let's wait for pub day.
00:32:50
Let's see if some people in the stores who actually pick up a
00:32:52
copy. No, they said the same thing.
00:32:54
People bought it in the store. Still spelled wrong.
00:32:57
In the audio book. Oversight the audio book.
00:33:00
Did you catch it? Yeah, I didn't.
00:33:01
I was looking. I was waiting for it.
00:33:02
Stephen Weber, said Drummond. The script that he got, said
00:33:06
Drummond. How many layers did that get
00:33:09
through? To not be flagged?
00:33:11
You just bring in one person. Orion's, Orion's deck, a Kyle
00:33:14
Mills, anybody. Just give a brief overview. 99%
00:33:18
of people who are actually trying to do this right and edit
00:33:21
would have caught it and what it would have been changed.
00:33:23
How many people did this book go through to get to that point?
00:33:26
I might be being harsh, but don't tell me one of the biggest
00:33:30
series in fiction literature, one of the biggest books that's
00:33:33
going to be a top seller no matter what, has not been gone
00:33:37
through with it. It just shows there's something
00:33:39
going on with the series that I don't I don't.
00:33:41
I hope this isn't writing on the wall that someone's like the
00:33:44
series as isn't as important or let's not give it as as close a
00:33:47
look as it deserves. I just hope this isn't slipping
00:33:50
down the pecking order. You know, now that Vince is
00:33:52
gone, now that Kyle's gone, that's like, we're just going to
00:33:54
get this one to print Willy nilly.
00:33:55
Doesn't matter. This is the one you should go
00:33:58
word by word 'cause you know the ambassadors.
00:34:00
Do you know people like us? Do you know our followers?
00:34:02
Do we go word by word to make sure this thing is perfect?
00:34:06
And I need them to do the same. I need the editing team,
00:34:08
whoever's fault this was, to do the same and tell us why this
00:34:11
happened. That so agreed, but I think that
00:34:17
because of this it has to be intentional.
00:34:21
It has to be intentional and don't know why.
00:34:24
The only thing I can think of is was the exact same thing I
00:34:26
thought of with the Anna Riley the Anna really the the the nod
00:34:30
divince in a sense that. 'D be great.
00:34:33
If it's true, it'd be great. But I need.
00:34:34
It I need it in writing, I need it on letterhead.
00:34:37
I'm sorry. It, it's, it's way more damning
00:34:39
if it's, if it's not that, you know what I mean?
00:34:42
If it's just, oh, it's oversight, you know?
00:34:45
And and I'm I know I'm being harsh, mistakes happen and
00:34:48
mistakes are fine, but to get to this level, to be published, the
00:34:52
arc, it wouldn't have bothered me as much.
00:34:54
I saw it. I was like, you know, OK,
00:34:56
probably a mistake. Whatever.
00:34:57
Late night. To go this far though, Chris,
00:35:00
it's so disheartening. It really is.
00:35:03
That's what I, I It has to be intentional, bro.
00:35:06
It has to be, has to be. Well, you want to know something
00:35:13
else we will never get to find out on this podcast directly
00:35:18
from the man himself. Unfortunately, guys, little
00:35:21
announcement here. Don Bentley is not going to make
00:35:25
it on our podcast. We don't know if he's unable or
00:35:29
unwilling or we're not sure what what the confusion or reasoning.
00:35:33
Maybe we have asked we, we, we were open and said, you know, if
00:35:37
there's anything we can do or talk about or discuss, we are
00:35:39
open to it. But we'll just leave it at that.
00:35:42
Don Bentley has informed us he will not be appearing on our
00:35:45
show. So maybe because I do rants like
00:35:48
that. Sorry, Chris.
00:35:50
Potentially, potentially, maybe. So we won't get to ask him.
00:35:53
Maybe, maybe, maybe in a year we'll let it, let it settle.
00:35:57
Maybe next year he'll want to come on the pod.
00:35:58
But for now, all you got is us, guys.
00:36:01
All you got is us. You, well, one other person I
00:36:05
think I've burned some bridges with who won't be on this pod.
00:36:08
I I assume we, we don't know for sure, but you said his name
00:36:12
Stephen Webber. You've burned some.
00:36:14
Yeah, you definitely burned some bridges.
00:36:15
I've burned some bridges there in the past and I'll just say
00:36:19
better Is it progress? So I, I wanted to talk about
00:36:22
this. I, I, I think it definitely
00:36:25
better than Code Red. I think we're, we're holding
00:36:27
him, and we said this before, we're holding him to a very high
00:36:29
standard, comparing him to George Waddell, the voice of mid
00:36:33
trap, the voice of a lot of good series.
00:36:37
So obviously they made a conscious decision last time
00:36:40
around to pivot, you know, whether that's not to piss off,
00:36:44
you know, we went we went over this all last year with code
00:36:47
red, whether it was to not make too many changes because they
00:36:51
knew that Don was coming, you know, or con it could be could
00:36:55
be something simple as contract negotiations.
00:36:57
George wanted George wanted more money.
00:36:59
You know, like. I think he he's just retiring
00:37:01
slash cutting back on the amount of books he does.
00:37:04
But we have no idea. We don't know.
00:37:06
We don't and this is a guy who lends his voice to a lot of
00:37:10
different novels. You know, we like to think that
00:37:12
he has a special place in his heart for reading Vince Flynn.
00:37:15
The guy could could not care. You know, he we don't know.
00:37:19
I mean, we've obviously talked to him about it, but like, you
00:37:21
know, we really don't know the insurance and outs of of the
00:37:24
business. But I will say I've listened to
00:37:27
Steven Webber now with another series.
00:37:31
We if you haven't gone and checked out our No Limits pods
00:37:34
on TJ Newman's books, he's great.
00:37:38
He's great, He's great, amazing. Yeah.
00:37:42
Did a really good job with falling and drowning.
00:37:45
This time around I liked him more.
00:37:48
But there's certain things that I'm just, I don't know.
00:37:51
I don't know if I can ever get over the fact.
00:37:54
And I think, you know, another character I wanted to talk about
00:37:57
was Stan, I think. Yeah.
00:37:59
I didn't love Stevens take on Stan, but I thought that Don's
00:38:05
take on Stan was great. You know, it kind of like, like
00:38:10
I'm, I'm happy that I read it first.
00:38:11
I had to read it first because I had the arc before, you know, we
00:38:15
were planning to pod before the audio book came out.
00:38:18
And then I, I listened to you had warned me about that.
00:38:21
There's there's gonna be a character that you're not gonna
00:38:23
like Stephen Webber's take on it.
00:38:26
And as soon as he came in, I was like, oh, Stan.
00:38:28
Yeah. But I thought it was a great nod
00:38:30
bringing Stan in, you know, just just like I thought it was a
00:38:33
good nod bringing in Marcus the I I thought that we needed those
00:38:39
two characters in this story for sure.
00:38:41
Yeah, we needed them in the story.
00:38:44
I think both could have maybe be integrated more fully.
00:38:49
But Stan's in integration here is is really good and he plays
00:38:54
such a key role in that final stretch, final sequence.
00:38:58
I I really do love it as well. I gotta say.
00:39:00
I do it. I won't call it unforgivable,
00:39:03
but Stephen Weber's voice for Stan is is just, it's pitiful
00:39:08
it, it just falls short. Just skip like read the ending
00:39:11
if you're listening to the audio book like.
00:39:12
I I got it. Yeah.
00:39:14
I got angry enough tonight. I'm not going to get into that
00:39:16
one. I will just say underwhelming,
00:39:18
disappointing. I wanted Stan to be gruff and
00:39:22
tough and this, this. Oh yeah, even just a smoker's
00:39:26
voice or just something that makes.
00:39:29
It with that smoker's voice, like the yeah.
00:39:33
This one just didn't stand. And, and it was in the heat of
00:39:35
the moment too. There was one other thing that
00:39:37
bothered me about the audiobook rendition.
00:39:40
He was very, very flat lined. And that happens in a lot of
00:39:44
series with narration, even a thrilling, you know, espionage
00:39:47
military thriller. The narrator still has to be
00:39:50
kind of even keel. And so I get that, but Stephen
00:39:54
Webber on two particular occasions broke from that and
00:39:57
put a whole lot of emphasis in his voice.
00:40:00
And one was like a grunting sound.
00:40:02
And the reason was because the text said quote, quote, quote,
00:40:05
quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, close quote, grunted rap.
00:40:09
And just because it said grunted rap instead of like rap said
00:40:12
because it said grunted, that was the one line Stephen Webber
00:40:15
put this like grunt emphasis on. He read that one particular line
00:40:20
with that emotion. He emoted that.
00:40:23
You only put the emotion in just because of those two things.
00:40:26
It sounded so weird when he started reading with this, with
00:40:30
this emotion when everything else in the book is flat lined,
00:40:33
even a thrilling scene, you know, saving the seal out of the
00:40:36
water. The waterfall is dripping, the
00:40:38
gurgling, they're underwater, they're holding their breath.
00:40:40
You know, this guy can't swim. He pops up.
00:40:42
Oh my God, you're a Ranger, you're a seal.
00:40:44
Don't save me. Like the heat of the moment and
00:40:46
all that was monotone. It was just even keel monotone.
00:40:49
No excitement in his voice. But then to randomly put
00:40:51
excitement in his voice for no really good reason other than
00:40:55
somebody was grunting in that particular scene or out of
00:40:57
breath. I think it was Rap or Stan
00:40:59
running. He gets out of the helicopter,
00:41:01
he's running like across the field or something to get.
00:41:04
Steven puts in this like. And he's panting.
00:41:07
Yeah, that's it. He was panting.
00:41:08
And there were so many other scenes where if you were going
00:41:11
to do that, you could have done that, but you just did it for
00:41:13
this one. Very strange.
00:41:14
Anyway, dude, a line like this let the Don put and stand in
00:41:18
with this line is perfect. Stan Hurley appeared in a cloud
00:41:23
of cigarette smoke as if he were the devil newly summoned from
00:41:26
the gates of hell. That's what Stan deserves.
00:41:29
Stan deserves that kind of writing.
00:41:32
Well, and I like, you know, 'cause I guess the last time we
00:41:34
saw Stan was old Stan, you know, he's, he's had cancer.
00:41:38
He's I liked getting one last shot of seeing, you know, Stan
00:41:43
in action, you know, harken us back to an American assassin or
00:41:47
a kill shot like that, that kind of era.
00:41:51
So yeah, I, I, I highly enjoyed Stan's reintroduction into into
00:41:56
the series. Yeah, completely agree.
00:42:01
You have anything else on the good guys then, because we we
00:42:03
haven't spent that much time on the villains and before we
00:42:06
really, you know, scorecard, the whole thing I do think deserves
00:42:10
to have a little conversation about Ruin Ton Morati, Damian
00:42:14
Morati Ashanti's, you know, kind of second in command kind of
00:42:17
guy. What did you think about those
00:42:19
two characters or anybody else who you would consider or
00:42:22
classify the bad guys here? I thought Ruin Town was
00:42:26
interesting. He's definitely not like my
00:42:28
favorite bad guy of the series. I don't know.
00:42:33
He kind of gets like played by Ashanti and this Marathi
00:42:37
character is obviously sympathetic with Ashanti.
00:42:40
And like ultimately at the end we find out that Marathi
00:42:45
reinstigates or, or reconnects with Irene to make this back
00:42:50
channel that she had had with Ashanti.
00:42:51
So I, I, I don't know some, I know some of our listeners
00:42:57
ranked the bad guys pretty low in this novel.
00:42:59
Like we, we don't see a lot of them.
00:43:02
He's obviously like just this bit and obviously Crankshaft is
00:43:04
like this big bad, but we never actually see him.
00:43:07
And those two brothers in the in the complex, like, yeah, OK,
00:43:12
when rap was playing meet or maid.
00:43:14
So it's interesting, I, I gave the ark to another big fan and
00:43:20
he I only, I only see him really once a week at church.
00:43:23
And so he gave it back to me this past Sunday and he I was
00:43:25
like, oh, So what do you think? He's like, I loved it, but I was
00:43:31
waiting for them to like another shoe to drop with like this, you
00:43:34
know, because they set it up great with this scene at the
00:43:37
Isfahan facility fire. You know, there's fire.
00:43:40
It's night like he wanted it more to than just be like some
00:43:44
modified missiles. I I don't think he quite
00:43:47
appreciated what we said like in terms of like that kind of
00:43:50
brought it all full circle with like how they could potentially
00:43:53
attack the seals, you know, to crankshaft.
00:43:56
Not like I think that ultimately that whole fits, but I, I could
00:43:59
see, I could appreciate how you would feel like, Oh, in a sense,
00:44:03
like the two halves of the story kind of don't go together, you
00:44:08
know what I mean? Yeah.
00:44:09
Well my take on that I have, I have a two-part take on that.
00:44:11
One is, I thought you were going to say his disappointment was
00:44:14
not enough, Ashanti, because. I definitely would have more
00:44:17
Ashanti. Such a good character, such a
00:44:20
good way to bring him back. We know he has his back channel
00:44:22
with Irene, but we also know he has a very important job in mois
00:44:26
and Iranian security and intelligence.
00:44:29
I think we could have done so much with him and it fell short,
00:44:35
thankfully, the airplane scene with his death and him willing
00:44:39
to pass on the Abbottabad information, like him willing to
00:44:41
spill the beans about bin Laden. That's big, right?
00:44:44
So that's big enough for in the heat of the moment on the tarmac
00:44:48
to save Ashanti's role here. But somewhere in the middle, I
00:44:51
wanted more about the missing meat we left out on Part 1.
00:44:55
Really wondering what's going to happen now that Ashanti what?
00:44:58
What rap stood him up, that Ashanti thought he was stood up?
00:45:01
And I love the airport scene where he wants to fly to France,
00:45:04
be with his family, but he can't do that until he has assurances
00:45:08
from the Americans because he knows Rap is a man of his word.
00:45:12
He knows if he gives the Intel and makes a deal that Rap will
00:45:15
protect his family, that will actually happen.
00:45:17
And he could die of cancer, you know, no problem because he
00:45:19
knows his family's taken care of.
00:45:21
But he doesn't get the chance to have that face to face.
00:45:24
And instead, his only play is to go stay up undercover, if you
00:45:29
will, with Ruentan, pretend he's still doing his job, go to
00:45:32
Pakistan, the security meet. And that's where he hopefully
00:45:36
where he meets Mike Nash or wants to meet Mike Nash.
00:45:39
It got murky there. It was kind of that hand off
00:45:42
from Ashanti to Marathi where I was kind of losing track of
00:45:46
things. It checks out in the end.
00:45:48
But I wanted Ashanti to be more hands on, some sort of
00:45:52
communication with Mitch, even if it wasn't face to face to
00:45:55
address that. But it was Marathi who had to
00:45:58
come to the hotel room and, and, and another thing is that scene
00:46:03
on the overlook, it was like a National Park or something
00:46:06
overlooking. Was it Tehran?
00:46:08
I don't remember where they were exactly.
00:46:10
But Marathi is out there contemplating like I'm trying to
00:46:15
help Ashanti. So we're going to be kind of on
00:46:17
the American side. And that what's best for our
00:46:19
country is if they are not against us, we drop the
00:46:22
sanctions. We have a detente, but at the
00:46:25
same time, ruin ton is on to us. So I have to blame Ashanti.
00:46:29
He kind of did the only thing he could have done, throw Ashanti
00:46:31
under the bus to protect his cover and then he's still
00:46:35
willing to meet with Mike Nash to spill the beans once Ashanti
00:46:38
is taken. But he had to kind of throw
00:46:40
Ashanti under the bus and then Ruin Ton leaves and Rap just
00:46:43
pops up and he starts hassling the dude.
00:46:46
And he like. Grabs his arm.
00:46:47
I'm like what the fuck? Like that whole meat on the
00:46:50
mountain side was a big miss for me.
00:46:53
An absolute big miss. I was like, what is rap doing
00:46:55
here? Why?
00:46:57
Is I was. Confused.
00:46:58
Rap was just in JBAD and then boom pops up in Islamabad.
00:47:04
I mean, I know they're close to each other, but like, you know.
00:47:06
Oh, that was Islamabad where that was that overlooked.
00:47:09
No, I think that whole transition from the Ranger
00:47:12
rescue to like pivoting to the second-half of the book, we've
00:47:18
said it before, like that is the that is the weakest part of the
00:47:21
novel. It was.
00:47:22
I think that's what doesn't elevate this to being like the
00:47:27
top, like a top five. Coming off of Part 1, I would
00:47:30
have said top ten. We were on track for easy top 10
00:47:33
easy. But I do think that the ending
00:47:36
saves it. Though the ending saves it, the
00:47:38
ending, the ending tries to make that push it.
00:47:40
It kind of puts it back in the conversation.
00:47:42
Connects everything back together.
00:47:44
But there's something in the middle that and maybe it was
00:47:47
saving the Ranger. I was along for the ride when
00:47:49
Rap had to do his fake ambush with Scott Coleman's team and
00:47:53
and and be Fareed Saeed and and go kind of infiltrating these
00:47:56
cells. I love that.
00:47:58
And he's saving the the Ranger Sexton at the same time.
00:48:02
But then on reflection, I'm like, no, he should have met
00:48:05
with Ashanti. Like I already knows that such
00:48:07
an important back channel. And here's the problem, there
00:48:10
was at least twice where Rap had to on page, either say to
00:48:15
himself or say out loud, I did the right thing by saving the
00:48:18
Ranger instead of meeting Ashanti.
00:48:20
I don't know if it's that clear cut.
00:48:22
It's almost like we're being told just move on.
00:48:25
The audience shouldn't question this.
00:48:27
You know, Rap thinks he did the right thing.
00:48:29
Everyone's saying Rap did the right thing, so don't even
00:48:31
question that decision. I don't know about that.
00:48:35
The Ashanti meet to get the Intel.
00:48:37
I think that's something Irene would have prioritized and I
00:48:40
think Irene and rap would have had a little bit more.
00:48:43
I like their conversations in the book, but I think there
00:48:45
would have been a little more take, you know, push, push back
00:48:48
on that, a little tug of war between them and just for rap to
00:48:52
come out and say I did the right thing.
00:48:53
It it kind of like force fed the audience just to agree.
00:48:57
And I didn't appreciate that. I, I, I thought that could have
00:48:59
had a deeper, deeper consequences to missing the
00:49:02
Ashanti meat instead of just. Well, at least I saved that
00:49:04
Ranger guy. Yeah, it's like, I don't want to
00:49:07
discount the whole Ranger sequence because obviously I
00:49:11
guess it makes sense because the HIG play a role.
00:49:13
In and the Iranian is there. Missiles and the.
00:49:15
Iranians. I guess you know it all, it all
00:49:18
connects, right? But you could look back on it
00:49:21
and say that that whole excursion was unnecessary.
00:49:26
You don't like it. It is kind of put in just to
00:49:29
have rap and Mark and and Scott, you know, showcase their
00:49:36
capabilities, you know, so it's like, I don't know, he obviously
00:49:40
that's how he structured his story.
00:49:42
We have to you have to take the whole thing together.
00:49:44
I think like if you stop at certain points, then you
00:49:48
obviously get different takes. So yeah, it's interesting.
00:49:51
But like, you know, I guess if we want to dive into the store
00:49:53
scorecard, like if I was to rate the bad guys, I don't know,
00:49:59
Rinton is not super intriguing to me.
00:50:03
Like he gets played hardcore by Shawnee.
00:50:06
I I like that he gets played by Shawnee.
00:50:09
I wanted to see, like you said, I think we could have used more
00:50:11
Shawnee. I think we could have used like
00:50:13
more, OK, I'm now a, a traitor. Like, how am I going to deal
00:50:18
with this, you know, And then even like seeing him, like how
00:50:23
would he? Because we never saw the
00:50:24
interaction between him and Rowinta.
00:50:27
Like he, he just gets captured, right?
00:50:30
You know, like him maybe him trying to get out of that, like
00:50:32
his conversations with, you know.
00:50:34
So I honestly think the Marathi character could have been
00:50:37
eliminated completely. You either eliminate Marathi or
00:50:40
you you clarify who he is, which what his role is.
00:50:45
I mean, if Ashanti is taken by Ruentan, I would have rather
00:50:48
Ashanti tipped off Nash or Rap in a very like back channel Y
00:50:52
kind of way. Like he used some sort of like
00:50:54
4th deputy minister of, you know, some sort of Ministry of
00:50:59
Culture who reaches out to like our third level somebody at CIA.
00:51:02
And we watch that going up the rungs to get to Irene.
00:51:05
And then Irene sends Nash over and says you got to find this
00:51:07
guy Morati and meet with him. I like there's something could
00:51:11
have been clarified about Morati's role which elevated
00:51:14
Ashanti, which downplayed that confusion.
00:51:17
Cause Mitch comes in and just twist his arm on the
00:51:19
mountainside. Yeah, he gets the information.
00:51:21
He just starts beating on the dude.
00:51:23
I'm like, it was so out of place and out of character.
00:51:27
And then in the end, Morati's all scared of rap and they're
00:51:30
like, no, we got to trust him. He's going to be our new
00:51:32
Ashanti. The whole thing could have been
00:51:34
clarified so that that's a minor Ding.
00:51:36
Yeah, if we get the scorecard. But do you mind, Chris?
00:51:41
We talked a lot tonight. I have to digest a few things,
00:51:44
possibly cool my jets on a few things.
00:51:47
I want to get the scorecard right and I am not settled on
00:51:51
rankings. So if we do a scorecard that
00:51:54
kind of solidifies where we rank the book numbers wise, and we'd
00:51:57
have to then say, does it crack the top 10?
00:52:01
I'm not totally ready to make that.
00:52:04
Do we? Do we get a Part 3?
00:52:06
I think I think that's a good call.
00:52:08
We have a lot to say about the cover, and I don't want to have
00:52:11
to squeeze that in between cover rankings.
00:52:15
The title, Capture Kill. I feel like there's a little bit
00:52:18
more I want to say, and I don't know where I'm settled yet on
00:52:21
this book. Yeah, let's, let's, let's table
00:52:24
it. Let's digest.
00:52:27
Maybe we can see if we can get someone else to come in and help
00:52:29
us with the scorecard. Yeah, I, I think we'd have to
00:52:32
get some super fans, maybe a couple of ambassadors, get their
00:52:34
opinions and then bring someone on the show.
00:52:37
I think that'd be great. Another outside voice who can
00:52:39
help us dig in. Has has Brian Costello read this
00:52:43
book? Because we talked to him when
00:52:45
when we found out that Don was taking over so.
00:52:48
That's right. That's a great, that's a great
00:52:51
point. We should reconnect with him.
00:52:52
It's been a while. Good call.
00:52:54
We'll we'll bring somebody on. We'll do a scorecard, we'll do
00:52:57
some rankings, we'll do a Limerick, we'll do a Limerick,
00:53:00
we'll do a Limerick and we'll do the cover.
00:53:01
Coming to you in Part 3. Yeah, no, we, we, we have plenty
00:53:04
of meat left on this capture, so.
00:53:08
Still very high on the book. Part 2 kind of didn't ride as
00:53:13
high as Part 1 for me, but there were some amazing epic moves.
00:53:17
From the helicopter scene to bringing in Stan to Irene and
00:53:21
Mitch at the lacrosse game, Tommy's lacrosse game, there
00:53:24
were some really good, brilliant, genius moves with
00:53:27
this plot and with these characters.
00:53:28
So hats off. Yeah, I think like whereas Part
00:53:32
1, I was highlighted from start to finish, this one up and I
00:53:38
wave, I wavered at times, but ultimately at the end it it shot
00:53:43
to the moon. It really hit.
00:53:45
It really hit, man, that airplane scene on the tarmac.
00:53:48
Chris, you promised me one thing.
00:53:50
Yes. We're going to end this episode.
00:53:53
Last episode you gave us a Let Mitch be Mitch.
00:53:57
Can you please give me a Let Marcus be Marcus please?
00:54:01
For you, for Marcus DuMont. Yes, for Marcus DuMont.
00:54:06
I'll give it to you. OK.
00:54:07
All right. Before that, appreciate that we
00:54:09
got to thank our patrons. Our deputy director, Sherry F
00:54:12
Shout out, Sherry, her love for George never done.
00:54:15
Our special operator, Jason C, our special agents, Ben, Daryl,
00:54:20
Kevin, George, Matt, Don, Peggy, Mark and Chris.
00:54:23
Please subscribe, rate and review to all three seasons of
00:54:27
Thriller Podcast. You can find us@thrillerpod.com
00:54:30
or on Twitter and Instagram. We're back on the Instas at
00:54:33
Thriller Podcast. Oh, we had a patron, Mike.
00:54:35
We got Mike S also a special agent on the Patreon.
00:54:39
Shout out Mike Love talking to you on the group chat as well.
00:54:43
And as always, just let Marcus be Marcus.