Debut author Brad Elder joins Chris and Mike to discuss his first novel - Recoil of Justice. It's apparent right away that Brad is one heck of a storyteller.
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Today we are joined. I bet this is going to say I
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feel good to hear debut author, fully published author, the
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author of Recoil of Justice, and he's Matthew Mcconaughey's
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doppelganger. Welcome, Brad Elder.
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Welcome, Welcome I. Wish that were true.
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Thank you all very much. I wish that were true, but I'll
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take it as a compliment. Well, we're really intrigued,
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you know, find out a little bit more about you.
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But how did you find us? You know, I don't know that I
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remember exactly. It's Facebook.
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I'm I'm a social media novice at best and I believe, you know,
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searching for thriller groups and y'alls came up and you were
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interviewing. I believe it's Brad Thorn and I
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was interested in that. So I thought, no, this sounds
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like a cool podcast. So I started following y'all
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and, and got completely into it and and I like realize y'all
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geek out as bad as bad as I do over them.
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So so I I fell in love with it. So we're doing something right.
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We're doing something right. We sure are, yeah.
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That's one person who's following our socials.
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At least we got one. We got one.
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Well, enough about us. Tell us all about you.
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What's your back story? How you got into writing?
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Yeah, that's a, that's a interesting story.
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I'm, I was a lawyer. I've been a lawyer since 2005.
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I went to law school later in life in my early 30s along the
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way, had a family, you know, was married already, but had a child
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my second year law school and had to, you know, to go through
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that process and, and it was a ton of fun, right?
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And so got out, started practicing law and then opened
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the title company and here in Lubbock and then bought one in
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Houston. Fast forward to about, oh,
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probably two years ago now, I've never had a creative writing
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back. I don't have a creative writing
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background. I'm not a, I'm not an English
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major, I'm not a creative writing major.
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I was reading a, a Jack Carr book, Red sky morning and I
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thought, you know, I think I may be able to do this.
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And so I, when I finished the book, I got on my computer and
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just started writing. And that's how it started.
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Was never a bucket list thing for me.
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I didn't have any idea if I knew what I was doing or could do it
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and but I just tried. I was I wasn't afraid to find
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out because if I, you know, spend a little time and it was
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terrible, then just shove it and do something different.
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But it kind of worked to where started getting good feedback
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from it and stuck with it. And before I knew it, I had AI
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had a book finished. Wow.
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Because we hear everything. We've talked to so many authors
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well established, like you said, Brad Thore, Kyle Mills, you
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know, a lot of big names and it's incredible.
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We get them on the pod. They're they're so humble,
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right, even though they're twenty time New York Times
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bestseller, you know, sometimes number one slot.
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We even talked to Jack Carr a few times.
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So you know, that's amazing. You got to it this soon.
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But then on the other side, we've had people we've talked to
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going for years just trying to find a publicist, having an
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agent, you know, trying to push their book and they're, they're
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not getting any traction. They're grinding so hard.
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Even some who are self published, you know, they go the
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the Kindle route or the ebook route and it's just a grind to
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do that. So the fact that you know, you
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heard that, you know that muse, you got that creative and spark
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and and you follow through on it is, is just incredible.
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That's pretty short turn around. Red Sky morning was a recent
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book. You know, what was the actual
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process like once you said, I'm going to commit to this?
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What was the daily grind looking like?
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Yeah, that's a good question. My I wrote out about four
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chapters having zero idea where where it was going.
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It's changed names about 3 or 4 times.
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The the protagonist has changed names 3 or 4 times.
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I didn't have an outline. I just wanted to see I had an
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idea in my head and I wanted to see if it would if it worked and
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I knew what and I could enjoy it first of all and second of all
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right in a a cohesive manner and an entertaining manner.
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So I wrote, wrote it out and handed it to my wife the first
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couple of chapters. And of course she said, this is
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really good. I love it.
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But you know, it's your wife, you know, and, and then I handed
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off to a friend of mine who's a professor and a, and a published
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author himself just to get his feedback.
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And I said, please, please, please be honest with me because
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I don't want to spin my wheels for a couple of years doing
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this. And it's awful.
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And he was extremely complimentary and he said, you
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have to see this through. And that gave me a lot of
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confidence to say I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to do it.
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And, and you know, I'm 54 years old and I don't know how many
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people start out riding and, you know, in their, in their early
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50s, but, but I did and you know, I, I had no idea what I
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was doing. I thought I would ride it and
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then go start looking for an agent and, and get a, get an
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agent and, and hopefully get a publishing contract.
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Well, that is, that is a very, very difficult process.
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Just finding an agent sure is, is next to impossible.
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And then once you, if you do find an agent, then they have to
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find a publisher for you. And then if they find a
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publisher for you, not only does whoever signs you have to buy in
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sales has to buy in marketing has to buy in distribution has
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to buy in. So it's a, it's a very daunting
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task. So I thought, you know what, I
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figured out things before I've started business before.
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So I think I can do this. I'll just self publish it.
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And my God, I've learned an entire or I am learning an
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entire new industry right now. And it's, it's overwhelming.
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It's absolutely overwhelming. Just the sheer number of
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software systems out there. And, and you know, companies,
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you know, saying how they can do everything for you turn key.
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And a lot of them are can't, and a lot of them are there to take
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your money. And you learn that I, I fell
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victim to it and it, it cost quite a bit of money to learn
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that I could have done this on my own without their help.
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Because literally the only thing they've done for me at this
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point is get me on Amazon and, and Barnes and Noble and, and
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all the, and that's not difficult to do so, but you
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leave an alarm. And you know, I've, like I say,
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it's a very daunting task, but I've, I don't remember the last
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time I've been this excited about doing anything.
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I'm just, I'm just thrilled. Especially when you put out
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something creative, there's a tremendous amount of
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vulnerability there. Not so much to the general
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public, I don't think I if somebody doesn't like me that I
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don't know. OK.
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Yeah, All right. That's fine.
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You don't you don't like my book.
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You don't think I'm I get? It turn turn the comments off
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right. Yeah, that's right.
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But when your friends or your family and you go, hey guys, I
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think this is pretty good. What do you guys think?
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And then people who love you and, and know you and care for
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you, that's where the real vulnerabilities that's in,
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because and that you're just right in the back of their mind
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going, dude, you have no shot at this, you know, so, and still
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they're your friends. So they're going to say nice
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things. And so you still have that doubt
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until you start getting some traction out in the marketplace,
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which again, is it's very difficult because you're
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competing against hundreds of thousands of books out there,
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competing against the studs in, in, in our world.
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You know, we mentioned a few of them already and and there's
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some tremendous amount of, of good independent authors as
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well. But if you if you peel back the
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onion and dive down, there's some really good programs out
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there to help God like us. It'd be interesting if you ever
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spoke to or saw on social media Erica Bishop.
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He's been on the podcast a few times, very similar story, the
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route he went down and how he had to figure out everything in
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the self-publishing world. And now he's 3-4 books
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published, I think, and a third one in his Body Man series
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coming out. And every time we talk to him,
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getting echoes of the same thing of just, you have to keep your
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head down. You have to do what you do
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because you believe in yourself. You, you have that spark and the
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amount of work that took to get this thing published.
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But you mentioned a little bit about it.
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You're also doing an audio book now, and you also had the cover
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to do so. Is that something outside
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services helped you with? Or how did you get going on all
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the logistics surrounding not just the publication of the
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print format, but all the other formats that are required?
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Yeah, I was, I was lucky enough to, I just Googled one day best
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selling independent author and I came up with with Mark Dawson's
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name and just write an article about him.
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And it said would you like to use Mark Dawson's editor?
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Click on this link. And it was reezy.com.
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That's what it was. And it's a basically a freelance
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website. And I found my cover designer, I
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found my editor, found the lady who built my website and
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marketing, a marketing person as well.
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So there's a tremendous amount of people out there who are
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really good at what they do and really good at what I'm not good
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at. And and they were able to help
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me through that because I didn't want to look like it was an an
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independent author just by the cover, because I do I judge a
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book by its cover. I know we've spoken before.
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Y'all do too. And so the last thing I want to
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see in some of these independent authors not naming names.
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I don't really have any names to name, but there's so many come
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across. I'm going, bro, that's really
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bad. You know, why?
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Why would why would why would you put that out there?
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This is your name is on this, this is your your creativity.
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Why would you put your name on? So I didn't want to look like
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that. So I was willing to spend the
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money for somebody really good to, to design a cover, you know,
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a really good editor who not hurt my feelings.
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But boy, I had to change. I had to change a lot of the
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book and and delete a lot because again, I didn't know
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what I was doing and I would go down some rapid trails and I
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would go down these long dossiers or you know, these
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about people and give the back story, like a long back story of
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people. That was really too, too much.
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And I hated deleting those and editing those out because they
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were the most fun parts to to ride because you don't have to
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pay attention to any back pattern or you just write
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something interesting. So I had to, you know, delete a
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lot, a lot of that out. Add in about another 1012
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thousand words, but it made it a much better book.
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So there is there is help out there you can get.
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And if someone wants to try to edit their own book, unless
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they're a a writing editor or a teacher or professor or
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something, I would suggest having someone else do that for
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you. But yeah, there's help out there
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for for guys like us, and I was very thankful for it.
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Yeah, I mean, I'm just looking here your cover on your website.
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I I thought that was the first thing I saw when I pulled up the
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you were gracious to send us the, the E arc and really,
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really like the cover. I mean, like it's, it's super
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polished and like you wouldn't, I would, I would never be able
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to tell that this wasn't put out by one of the, you know, major
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media houses. You know, it.
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I've seen worse covers by some of our other people.
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We've read on the pod, you know, that we you know, and if you
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listen to our podcast, we're we're very stickler with covers.
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Yeah, and it's, you know, I, I feel like it's important.
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It's the first thing that you see.
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It makes you. I know when I'm going in, I
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don't go into bookstores anymore, But when I used to go
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into bookstores anymore in the past or you're, you're walking
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by a Hudson news at the airport, right?
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It's something that catches your eye.
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It makes you want to pick that up, read that jacket cover and
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then maybe buy the book. So kudos to whoever you got.
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You made a nice choice there. Well, thank you.
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Yeah, I'm like you. I can I can go through and scan
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a scan a you know, you can go in the Barnes and Noble or
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something. They have the, the, you know,
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featured books out there. I could scan.
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No, no, no, no. Oh, here's a interesting 1.
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You know so it and it's all by the cover.
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The reverse though, is also true, as we call it on the pod.
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Judge the cover by the book. And thankfully that helicopter
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was there because important, important stuff in Ryan Wolf's
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back story and how he became who he became.
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So I I love that touch. And then also the building on
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the left, it kind of makes me think of the law firm.
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Were you going for the law firm with that downtown city based?
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I was office building. OK, that's.
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How I was so in the in the split screen, because the split screen
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was I want to take credit for that.
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That was my idea to where he he's kind of two, two different
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people. I don't know if we're talking
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about spoiler alerts on here or now we're going to talk about
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that, which I'm, I'm totally fine with, but I wanted to show
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that, you know, he's this lawyer, he's a, he's a, you
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know, downtown Houston and you know, he has that life, but
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there's this another life he's going other life he's going to
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morph into. And so I, I did like that.
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Oh, I can't even think of the word right now, but just the the
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differences in in him and the character and the arc that he's
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going to go through. Yeah, and you mentioned
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spoilers. I think we'll be spoiler
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adjacent. So we're not going to spoil big
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plot points, but we do want to give the audience a chance to
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learn who these characters are and what they're going to get
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into. Picking up Recoil of Justice,
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because we want you to leave this interview absolutely
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picking up Brad's work. I have to say it's a it's such
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an enjoyable read and I came off of Edge of Honor by Brad Thor,
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clearly going to be my favorite book of 2025 and I knew the next
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book I read was going to have a tough task giving me that same
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sense. Thanks, enjoyment.
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Mike. Thanks, Mike.
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You did not set him up for success there.
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But I opened this one and I was sucked in and and it goes to
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what you're saying about the cover because you come off of
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Brad Thore book the the pinnacle of action and a character I've
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read for 20 years and a big important part of my life.
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I'm like a lawyer. How are you going to weave a
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story that proves to me he's a bad ass?
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And how do you put a cast of characters around him that I'm
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going to buy into? And he all of a sudden got
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dropped into this plot that came organically out of his work.
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It made sense why a lawyer would be drawn into this world.
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And then he also crossed paths with people.
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You know, the side characters here are amazing.
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So what was it like building this cast of characters?
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And I, I also have to say what I liked about your opening
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chapters. And I texted you this.
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I felt like it was an everyman story.
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I just, you know, a lot of these books are the larger than life
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heroes, the former seal, the Secret Service guys, the the the
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the people we all would want to look up to and aspire to in
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another life. You know, and then we come to
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this lawyer living in Texas, very down home kind of feel and
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like, what kind of antics and shenanigans is he going to get
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into? And will I buy into it?
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Well, right off the jump, he's trying to leave his house to go
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to work and he's got a, you know, just cut down a tree that
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fell from the storm and he calls his neighbors.
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Everything felt so real. It was refreshing to have a
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protagonist who was an everyman just here.
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I I could identify with him. Well, and, and that was it was
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in my mind the entire time I when I read, you know, about
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Scott Harvath or I read about James Reese or, or miserable,
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whoever it may be, you know, I'm not gonna lie.
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I picture myself as the bad ass, you know, I'm the one shooting
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the bad guys and the terrorists and and taking them out.
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But you know, it's all fantasy. It's all.
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Fantasy completely. And and I never wanted to ride a
00:15:59
legal thriller that didn't really appeal to me much.
00:16:03
I I did want to ride an action, an action thriller and have a, a
00:16:07
good protagonist, but I don't have ACIA background.
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I don't have a military background like these guys do
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and, and know the inner workings of that world.
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So that will what world do I know?
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And, and my thoughts were always when I'm reading those books,
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what would a normal guy do if put in that situation?
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What would I do if put in that situation?
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I'm not talking about a regular home invasion where I think we
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could all muster up the stones to protect our family.
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You know, what would you do if you're put in the situation with
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overwhelming odds against some really, really nefarious people?
00:16:43
And how would you react? And so, and another thing with
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the, with the other characters we talked about and you just,
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you just touched on a mic, you come in with this larger than
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life character. Well, we, their baseline or the,
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or their foundation was set for years before we get to know
00:17:02
them, right? They've already gone through the
00:17:03
seals. They've already been in the CIA
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or Secret Service or what have you for a lot of years.
00:17:08
I wanted the character that my readers could grow with from
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their from the genesis of where they start, where this character
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starts. Now, obviously they're not with
00:17:19
him in the early years of of his law firm, but that's not where
00:17:21
the focus of this series is going to go.
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It's not going to be a a, a legal thriller.
00:17:26
And but I had to introduce this to show he was an everyday man,
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an everyday lawyer, just like, you know, a good litigator, but
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he gets in with a mix of all the other litigators in the world.
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I couldn't just have him show up on the scene.
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This lawyer starts shooting people, then he's the murderer,
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right? So I had to set the foundation
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early. And then I really want and I'm
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about halfway through with Core Truth, which is the follow up
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novel and where he starts to this darkness that he felt or
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this this Eric was badassery that he felt like the primal
00:18:07
attraction to what he lived through in in Enrico Justice is
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calling to him and asking himself, is that something that
00:18:20
I'm that attracted to that I can't stop thinking about it.
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And I'm not a hesitant to get drawn back into that world.
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And, you know, I, I, you know, and I'm thinking two or three
00:18:31
books I had to, and where that can go.
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And I'm excited about where it can go.
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I have to, I think I'm having to step easy and not to step too
00:18:39
far to where, you know, in this book, the beginning of this
00:18:44
book, he's just a dude, man. He's just a lawyer.
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I'm hesitant to have him in the very next book, gun wielding
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and, and taken out, you know, Islamic terrorists or something
00:18:53
of that nature. So I'm going to have to baby
00:18:55
step it a little bit, I think. And I hope I can do that pretty
00:18:59
seamlessly. I think, I think that's a smart
00:19:02
play because you mentioned you didn't want it to be a legal
00:19:05
thriller, but knowing that's your background, I almost felt
00:19:08
reading the chapters that were inside, not the courtroom, but
00:19:12
like the deposition room during, you know, deposition.
00:19:14
I, I thought that I felt like was your wheelhouse, your bread
00:19:17
and butter. It's like you were flowing and
00:19:19
so smooth and how you could write that.
00:19:21
And I just knew it was because of your personal background.
00:19:23
And I was going to say that too. Like, I have felt that the real
00:19:27
strength that you brought to it, obviously, and then trying to
00:19:30
bring this dichotomy, right, He said of being a lawyer and
00:19:34
having, you know, some military background and, and, you know,
00:19:36
having him thrust into action. But I felt that you were able to
00:19:40
blend the, the legalese and like, you know, really show that
00:19:46
all right, he is a good, you know, good lawyer, but then also
00:19:49
just oppose that with some action and, and, you know,
00:19:51
having it believable. So.
00:19:54
Well, thank you for that. I, I tried real hard to to blend
00:19:57
the two without making just this gap, you know, this huge with
00:20:01
this huge gap and and. And that's why I kind of taught
00:20:05
in some of the back story of him growing up and hunting and
00:20:09
growing up with with Colonel Chuck, you know, as as a young
00:20:11
man and some of the things that he was able had to encounter so
00:20:14
little seeds that show you that he's no stranger to pulling a
00:20:19
trigger now, maybe a stranger to what he's doing later and you
00:20:22
know, later in the book. But you know, it was a, it was a
00:20:27
balancing act that I tried to weave in early because I didn't
00:20:31
think if I just ended Part 1 the way I did without weaving in
00:20:35
that back story, it was going to be believable.
00:20:37
So like I had to get give a couple of little little tidbits
00:20:41
in there. The back story linked it for me.
00:20:43
I was enjoying so much. Part one or first third of the
00:20:47
book. We're meeting the law firm,
00:20:49
we're getting introduced to the case, the deposition scene.
00:20:52
I I just keep coming back to it. It was like where he's he's at
00:20:56
his apex as a lawyer. He's firing all cylinders.
00:20:58
I'm like this. Is why that was my favorite
00:21:00
chapter to write I think. Oh I I could it comes to the
00:21:03
page. Yeah, it really comes out.
00:21:05
It really comes out I'm like, how are you going to have this
00:21:07
guy gun tote and going wild? And the back story was a perfect
00:21:10
vehicle to do that for people who haven't read the book yet.
00:21:13
The helicopter on the front plays a big role in that.
00:21:16
And I, I, I really like that link in that transition.
00:21:19
And then I kind of the third wave, which takes up about the
00:21:22
the entire second-half of the book is the cartel stuff.
00:21:26
Did you know you wanted to write a cartel drug running kidnapping
00:21:30
book? Like, did you have the plan for
00:21:31
this to become taken with Ryan Wolf?
00:21:34
Yeah. Have I was going to ask, have
00:21:35
you had any background with this or what was the research like
00:21:37
into that? You know, I, I've, I haven't
00:21:40
been in a cartel. I've never fixed down a.
00:21:42
Cartel before, Not that kind of background investigating A
00:21:45
cartel, I guess. No, I haven't.
00:21:48
You know, the, the way I got that that idea is, you know, I
00:21:53
think it's a it's a good story and it's a sad story.
00:21:56
There is a, a charity here in town in, in Lubbock that's
00:22:00
phenomenal with helping victims of human trafficking.
00:22:03
And, you know, I just started researching human trafficking
00:22:07
and find, you know, find that all the different links to to
00:22:11
the cartel and had to tie in somehow, you know, the Martez
00:22:17
family, you know, how to kind of tie that in somehow to do that.
00:22:20
But no, I don't have, luckily I don't have any experience, you
00:22:24
know, personal experience with that.
00:22:25
But I just man, I read a lot and and because I wanted to be
00:22:29
authentic, you know, and you know, I got the idea.
00:22:33
I think I said it the at the in the beginning of the book with
00:22:37
the AI angle. I got that from Jack Carr.
00:22:40
And I hope, I hope they everybody realizes I gave him
00:22:43
full credit in the beginning that that, that, you know, I did
00:22:47
get that that from him. And I thought, and that's always
00:22:51
really intrigued me. Where can it go and how far can
00:22:56
Hey, I think it could be a phenomenal thing for us.
00:22:59
But I also think that just like the Internet's a phenomenal
00:23:02
thing, but it's also can be an, you know, people can use it for,
00:23:05
you know, for very bad purposes. So, so I just like I say, I did
00:23:10
a ton of research on it and try to get a little tidbits of
00:23:13
information and, and spur on ideas.
00:23:15
So I didn't have, you know, when I said I'm sort of right there,
00:23:18
it's like I said, I didn't, I didn't have a plot.
00:23:19
I, I kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do.
00:23:23
Like Eric Meyer in the beginning was a completely different
00:23:26
character in the in the first draft and he was going to one of
00:23:30
the ones, you know, that was being kidnapped.
00:23:32
But I had to no, no, no, no. So I once I got my, my arms
00:23:37
around where I wanted the plot to go, then it then it kind of
00:23:39
fell in and there was there was periods there that of weeks that
00:23:43
I'm going just don't know where I want to go with this.
00:23:46
And I would read the book over and over and over and over
00:23:50
again, at least the part of it I had read until something
00:23:53
happened. It could be, it could have been
00:23:55
anything, you know, seeing anything like, oh, there we go.
00:23:58
And then it just happened. So, you know, the, in the, the
00:24:03
cartel part, obviously living in Texas, we're cognizant of that
00:24:08
and we're, you know, because there's some overflow and then,
00:24:11
you know, this is a very large human trafficking area through
00:24:14
here. So that was kind of close to my
00:24:17
thoughts and close to my heart that, you know, that there are
00:24:21
some really awful people doing some really awful things to some
00:24:24
really good people. And I and I wanted to to make a
00:24:26
story about that and the heroes around in that.
00:24:29
Yeah, I thought that was a good choice to, you know, kind of,
00:24:33
you know, obviously you're trying to establish yourself.
00:24:35
You're trying to establish this, you know, sort of new legal
00:24:38
thriller not, but not a courtroom, you know, not, not at
00:24:41
your typical John Grisham legal thriller.
00:24:43
I thought it was a good choice to ground your climax in such a
00:24:49
real thing, you know, something that's that's so real in the
00:24:51
world and and something that is believable that, you know, this
00:24:55
lawyer could be thrust into as opposed to like picking some
00:24:58
sort of, you know, having him like just an example, having him
00:25:02
stop a nuclear plot for some reason, you know, yeah, pick,
00:25:05
pick any of your other, you know, crazy.
00:25:07
You know, this is sort of real. Like you said, not that every
00:25:10
man has taken down a a cartel trafficking ring, but like, you
00:25:13
know, there's local law enforcement, there's, you know,
00:25:16
local FBI agents that are, you know, doing this and they're not
00:25:19
the Mitch rap style people, you know, So like, it's very
00:25:22
believable that he could be involved with something like
00:25:25
this. And so I thought that was a
00:25:26
really good choice. It's a sense of duty.
00:25:28
Too man, man versus man at some point, you know, and that, yeah,
00:25:33
and if. It's how he was raised.
00:25:35
Yeah. Like I, I got the sense that he
00:25:37
was raised, you know, on this ranch and working on the ranch
00:25:41
and all the lessons we were learning from, from his father
00:25:44
and from Colonel Chuck. It feels like for them to turn
00:25:47
around and go, no, we're not going to save the girl.
00:25:49
You know, it's like they were full in and I knew they would
00:25:52
be. And that that group, once you
00:25:54
have the Martez family, once you have all these connections, it
00:25:57
became personal. And yeah, if he had to go off
00:26:00
and stop a nuke and chase guys down all throughout Europe and
00:26:02
run through cities and I bet what?
00:26:04
But the fact it was on a ranch, it was.
00:26:06
And Speaking of setting, I want to get into that, you know,
00:26:08
you're you're a Texas guy. What was it like crafting both
00:26:12
the Cutter ranch and his back story?
00:26:14
The Martez Ranch? I don't want to give too much,
00:26:15
but a really awesome tunnel. I'm just going to leave it at
00:26:18
that. What was it like coming up with
00:26:20
these kind of sweeping grand panoramas?
00:26:24
Well, the Cutter Ranch is actually I thought of as a, as a
00:26:27
ranch that I used to hunt on as a grown man at the time, but
00:26:30
it's it's a friend's ranch. And so that was kind of in my
00:26:33
mind there. And, and some of the characters
00:26:36
and guides that they had at at the ranch.
00:26:38
It was kind of a gave me that idea.
00:26:43
And then getting down to the to the Martez rich, I knew I needed
00:26:47
a deeper connection to Mexico. You know, I didn't think it was
00:26:51
real believable that that Ryan was going to, you know, grow up
00:26:56
and in these late teens hanging out around Mexico because just
00:26:59
knowing, knowing I I've gone back to to my youth too.
00:27:03
And Ryan's you. There's some similarities
00:27:05
because I wrote his dad kind of after my dad and and parts of
00:27:09
Ryan is very similar to to my life.
00:27:13
My parents were never going to let me go down to Mexico at 19
00:27:15
years old and go to a ranch. So I thought, well, I need
00:27:18
something a little closer, a little closer to home.
00:27:20
But for the for the remaining plot, I knew I needed a closer
00:27:24
tie to Mexico and the two ranches sprawling both sides of
00:27:30
the Rio Grande. To me was was the perfect fit.
00:27:32
And I knew they had to be a a prominent family to be able to
00:27:37
afford a place like that, first of all.
00:27:39
And the tunnel to me was that's another chapter I really
00:27:42
enjoyed, enjoyed riding. Yeah, I don't want to have too
00:27:47
many spoiler locks, but there's a really cool tunnel.
00:27:49
I could tell you enjoyed that. I I between the the lawyering
00:27:53
scene, the back story on the Cutter Ranch and then when that
00:27:58
tunnel was introduced, I just felt like it was you were
00:28:01
creating a voice. You know how you read some
00:28:03
authors and every book you see kind of the similar things where
00:28:07
they're reflecting a part of themselves into it and the
00:28:09
writing is just elevated. And those were a few scenes that
00:28:12
just stick out where the writing was elevated almost naturally.
00:28:15
Should we coin it an elderism? It's an elderism, yes, another
00:28:21
elderism. You talked about some time
00:28:23
jumps, and I'm sure it had to do with a lot of the editing.
00:28:26
I felt like it was something new that I hadn't seen, and it
00:28:30
worked where a scene plays out and the thing happens, but then
00:28:35
we go back two weeks or we go back, you know, a couple of
00:28:38
hours beforehand. And it was like really nice to
00:28:41
see how that thing developed, but I already knew where it was
00:28:44
going to go. To me, that was also a really
00:28:47
unique elderism that I haven't seen any other authors do.
00:28:51
Well, thank you for that. And, and that's the part of the
00:28:53
book that I probably, I'm opening the beer, by the way,
00:28:56
sorry, I'm, that's why I'm doing under the under the table here.
00:28:59
And I'm I'm struggling getting it open so.
00:29:01
There's no free ads. It should be a Shiner.
00:29:03
Box though. If it was a Shiner box, I'd
00:29:05
give. It to you, that's why I'm
00:29:06
holding under the table because I don't want anyone to never get
00:29:09
a beer out there. That's the part that I still
00:29:15
struggle with a little bit that I hope I did it seamlessly
00:29:19
enough to where it's not hard to keep up with a little bit.
00:29:25
And I, you know, I'm, I'm very open about talking about what,
00:29:28
you know, after the fact, what weaknesses I thought or things I
00:29:32
thought I think maybe I could do better.
00:29:34
And that's potentially one of them.
00:29:36
But I've always loved those books or those movies.
00:29:40
Like I go back to the movie. Do you remember the movie
00:29:42
Memento, I believe was the name of it, where it started at the
00:29:46
end and then it would lead you somewhere and then we go back
00:29:48
and see. I thought that was brilliant.
00:29:51
And so I wanted to have a couple of little things in there that
00:29:56
were like that to where, you know, lead you down a path.
00:29:59
And then I give you what happened just before to kind of
00:30:03
open the, the truth about what you, what you just read and,
00:30:07
and, and have those little, Oh, I didn't see that coming
00:30:10
moments. And I, I hope I was able to hide
00:30:13
those moments to where they didn't see them coming.
00:30:15
And and then the the because linear to me, it just didn't
00:30:20
seem to fit as well. It wouldn't going to be the oh,
00:30:23
the shock moment that that I was going for.
00:30:25
So yeah, I appreciate the fact that you guys enjoyed that.
00:30:28
I I struggle with should have done that or shouldn't shouldn't
00:30:31
have done that but. I'd keep it.
00:30:33
Keep it for sure. I would keep it for sure.
00:30:35
Yeah, I think. It gives you a little bit of a
00:30:36
distinct, Yeah, like like you said, it's not, it's not a
00:30:39
tactic that's often used. I do think I've been.
00:30:44
Played well then. I think having the the timelines
00:30:47
to start a chapter was very helpful because there was so
00:30:50
much back story when we were meeting new characters.
00:30:53
I thought that was fine because if you paid attention to it as
00:30:56
the reader, you in your mind are realizing.
00:30:58
All right, I'm. I'm filling in some gaps and
00:30:59
going backwards here. So I think it's I'll touch it,
00:31:02
yeah. Well, thank you.
00:31:04
I even toyed with adding a timeline like as A to the book.
00:31:10
But then I thought, well, and then I'm just giving now I'm
00:31:13
giving away too much. So I just, I just scrapped that.
00:31:16
But I can assure you I had one and, and was making sure that
00:31:20
and then going back through and like, well, I just said I just
00:31:23
had three years there. But now I'm this alludes to me.
00:31:27
Maybe it was five years. So I, you know, there's a lot of
00:31:29
those things I had to keep, had to keep track of.
00:31:31
That's a neat idea though I could see some version of it.
00:31:33
I think a whole timeline giving it away in the front or even an
00:31:37
appendix at the end maybe doesn't work.
00:31:40
But I, I'm, I wonder if like each part, you know, like Part
00:31:44
1, there's like a timeline of Part 1, it doesn't give you too
00:31:48
much and Part 2 you have another chunk of it.
00:31:50
I don't know, I think something like that could be really
00:31:52
creative. Hope yeah, that didn't wasn't
00:31:55
too loud. It's all good.
00:31:56
We'll amplify that sound effect right there.
00:32:00
Hey, you know, just trying to be real on here.
00:32:02
That's who I am. So I.
00:32:05
Just like yeah, wait till 8:00 at night.
00:32:07
I really want to get into another character that I seem to
00:32:11
jive with and this is the the Seth Seth Pitluck.
00:32:15
Seth, yeah. What was your approach to
00:32:18
writing such a quirky character like that?
00:32:21
You know, I feel like every book has to have like somebody like
00:32:23
that. You know, it's like the man, the
00:32:24
man in the chair, you know, Spider Man would say.
00:32:27
But what? Did you have any sort of
00:32:28
inspiration? What's that?
00:32:30
Well, his name is actually the name of the professor I used to
00:32:34
read. The book from.
00:32:35
The beginning. So it's it's his middle name and
00:32:38
and his last name. You know, I love Nicholas and
00:32:43
the Scott Harbath books. I just love that.
00:32:46
Just the smart dude that you're, you're going like, oh, if I
00:32:49
didn't have him. Yeah.
00:32:51
Holy cow. But I also knew I couldn't have
00:32:54
a Nicholas. I couldn't have a guy who's at
00:32:58
the absolute top of his game working for the CIA.
00:33:02
They don't take Grindwolf's calls, you know, but in Austin
00:33:07
especially, it's a doc, the tech hub of, of, of Texas.
00:33:11
There's a lot of really off the wall guys like that, you know,
00:33:16
smoking pot, living in his grandmother's basement who are
00:33:19
absolutely brilliant people. And it's almost that little,
00:33:24
that subculture of people that I think can also be heroes.
00:33:32
And that's that's why I wanted Seth to to play a prominent role
00:33:35
there. He's just like I said, he's he's
00:33:38
a hey, bro, you know, you know, bro, bro, bro, this, but he's in
00:33:42
that. He's absolutely brilliant.
00:33:43
And I knew Ryan needed somebody like that because I couldn't
00:33:46
also make lineup Ryan a lawyer and a tech guru.
00:33:50
You know, he needed somebody that's and and somebody outside
00:33:53
the company who may be willing to step over some Gray, you
00:33:59
know, Gray, some of the black lines, you know, and and so that
00:34:04
that was kind of my thought process is that subculture.
00:34:07
Who? My God, they can they can they
00:34:10
again? They too can be heroes.
00:34:12
They can be heroes and sometimes those guys are more scary to me
00:34:16
than just like your your traditional terrorists, right?
00:34:19
Because it's these anonymous guys who really have all the
00:34:22
power. If they wanted to flip the
00:34:23
switch tomorrow, you know, anonymous and all their
00:34:26
networks, they, they can also be the scary ones.
00:34:28
So it's nice when they're working for the good team, when
00:34:31
they're with the good guys, they easily cannot be.
00:34:35
And so that goes to another angle of the book.
00:34:37
We talked how it opens as like a legal thriller doesn't
00:34:40
completely go that way. It kind of is a western almost
00:34:43
did in a sense. It also has this kidnapping
00:34:46
story, but then there's the the tech drama of it all.
00:34:50
And then and the tech stuff and you, you mentioned Jack Carr,
00:34:53
everybody loves Alice. Alice, such a great character.
00:34:55
Got a lot of car books. I feel like you come up with
00:34:58
some really crazy tech in the dark web and how there's all
00:35:02
these layers to it. Were you riffing on that, coming
00:35:05
up with that on your own or or is some of the stuff possibly
00:35:09
out there this really like deep encryption that's totally
00:35:12
unbreakable? Yeah, I was going to ask about
00:35:14
the Serum X drive is that is that?
00:35:15
Serum Dr. Yeah. It's totally that was totally
00:35:18
made-up. No, I have no idea what that is.
00:35:21
Forsyth was another one. Forsyth, yeah.
00:35:23
Forsyth three. I made that one up too.
00:35:27
Yeah. None of those actually exist to
00:35:29
my knowledge. The layers of the dark web.
00:35:32
I did do some research on that. It actually alluded to it in one
00:35:36
of, in one of Jack's books about the different layers and kind of
00:35:41
what they mean. And so I couldn't remember what
00:35:43
it was. So I, I, you know, Google's
00:35:46
amazing, but you can find out. And if it's not true, well,
00:35:49
it's, it's fiction. So, and then just to kind of
00:35:53
explain the, explain the different levels.
00:35:55
And, and I also knew that you had to have extremely powerful
00:36:00
computing, A computing power has to be astronomical to get to
00:36:04
those, to get to those darker, darker levels.
00:36:07
And I, and I wanted to really paint a picture of why this
00:36:13
system is so valuable and, and so important, because it's not
00:36:18
like you can go on Google or on Bing or something like that and,
00:36:23
and access the system. You have to, it's down there
00:36:27
because it is so secure. And that's just why all these
00:36:29
people wanted to wanted to get their hands on it.
00:36:33
And big money, big money around that.
00:36:36
That also opens up the door for a really cool move you make.
00:36:40
We've read a bunch of books recently that comment on this
00:36:42
idea of global elites, this ruling class.
00:36:45
You know your Bezos's and and musks and look at everything in
00:36:48
the news today about those those clowns.
00:36:50
You, you had an opportunity here.
00:36:52
It was a lot of fun with these two Titans almost you almost
00:36:55
have the good guy, the bad guy, the elite you kind of want to
00:36:59
cheer for and hope has all the resources to improve the world
00:37:02
and and make things better. But then you also get a guy you
00:37:05
or a couple of guys you put that technology into the wrong hands,
00:37:09
whether it's an elite, someone with money and power and
00:37:12
influence over companies and economics, or even someone drug
00:37:16
cartel, because that's another kind of power.
00:37:18
What was it like creating these two main elite characters?
00:37:23
Yeah, I wanted to show the not the Ying and the Yang, but like
00:37:26
you said, the good guys and the bad guys.
00:37:28
And while most things like that are meant for good and it can be
00:37:33
used for good and like you say, in the wrong hands now the bad
00:37:38
is, is infinitely more powerful anytime you have these brilliant
00:37:43
bad guys. And I, I really wanted to
00:37:46
humanize those guys to Justin Alcorda and and Vicente
00:37:50
Gonzalez. I wanted to humanize them to
00:37:52
where they're not comic book characters.
00:37:55
You know, they, they are. And so you wanted to, I wanted
00:37:58
to show that they're has they'd use the word positives, but
00:38:02
they're brilliant, brilliant people.
00:38:05
And they have now they have an extremely powerful computing
00:38:12
source where they can take their world and amplify it 1000 times,
00:38:19
just like we could take our good world and amplify it 1000 times
00:38:23
and hide behind it and hide behind it.
00:38:26
Yeah. And and then I really, I really
00:38:29
did enjoy riding the the Alcorda was a fun character to ride to
00:38:35
where he was even a leg up on on Gonzales and and his his goals
00:38:43
here were even more sinister, I think, than than Vicente's.
00:38:49
Though it's a dog eat dog world, I'm sure in the leadership of
00:38:52
these these groups. You can't trust anybody.
00:38:55
No, no. And you'll get a, you know, to
00:38:59
me, it's there's no, no, what's that?
00:39:02
No honor amongst thieves I guess is kind of that be the mantra
00:39:07
there. But humanizing them is a smart
00:39:09
move too, because I'm thinking 1 character, a driver.
00:39:13
And it's like you could see how their charm and actually even
00:39:17
Paul, there's a couple of instances where you do this.
00:39:19
I don't want to give away too much, but the charm that these
00:39:22
guys have, they're manipulative and that's how they've worked
00:39:24
their way to the top and they stepped on so many people below
00:39:27
them. But that's how they also, you
00:39:29
know, influence people. What is it?
00:39:31
Get friends and influence people at the same time.
00:39:34
Groom. It's a grooming tactic, and it's
00:39:37
just even more sinister and diabolical because of that.
00:39:40
And now you put them in bed with, yeah, a Bidwell or a
00:39:43
company that's, you know, selling them software to make
00:39:45
them do whatever they want, wherever they want, invisibly.
00:39:48
That's all I'll say about it. That's a crazy plot.
00:39:50
And that's why a lawyer who's involved in a case against them
00:39:53
would make sense to go toe to toe with them.
00:39:56
Well, I'm glad you guys. I'm glad, really glad you guys
00:39:58
like that and. And again, those those side
00:40:03
character, not side characters, but those ancillary characters
00:40:06
were a ton of fun to ride. Colonel Chuck was a fun was a
00:40:09
ton of fun to ride. I bet Fuller and and McCall who
00:40:13
worked again, I use a lot of names of my friends.
00:40:16
Justin Concorde is my little Little League assistant coach,
00:40:19
by the way, and is the finest man you'll ever meet in your
00:40:22
life. And McCall and Fuller also also
00:40:27
friends. And so is Vicente Gonzalez.
00:40:29
And to my knowledge, he's not the leader of a cartel to my
00:40:32
knowledge, although it's questionable sometimes.
00:40:34
But you know, I like, I like doing that, enjoy doing that.
00:40:39
You know, some of the guys have some of the the popular writers
00:40:43
have the thing they do that they'll if someone is a gives
00:40:49
enough money to a charity of their choice, they'll take the
00:40:51
benefactor and and name a character after him.
00:40:54
I mean, I don't have that that kind of pull.
00:40:56
So I I use some of my friends names and and it was fun to
00:40:59
write my call to as a five 865 LB balding man because the real
00:41:04
Jamie McCall is about 6 foot and 2:15 and quite the ladies man
00:41:08
so. Great.
00:41:10
I bet he loved that. I bet he loved it.
00:41:13
I don't know that he can read though, so.
00:41:15
Daddy's ready. Well, it's bedtime story, mommy.
00:41:19
Will read it too, that's right. That's great.
00:41:22
That's great. Well, so you mentioned you're
00:41:24
already right in the next one. What can you give us A little,
00:41:27
you know, where do you want to go next?
00:41:30
I want advance the advance him and on the action side, you
00:41:36
know, obviously it's in the beginning.
00:41:37
There's a setting of, of him being him being in, in the law
00:41:41
firm, but in it, it's, it starts off about a year after recall
00:41:47
finishes. And some of the things he's done
00:41:50
on the side to, to prepare himself for this primal feeling
00:41:57
that he had, this feeling of being part of a team, this
00:42:00
feeling that he's really trying to fight this guilt that he has
00:42:05
cause the guilt sets in and he's trying to fight why he's feeling
00:42:10
guilty, so guilty. And it's eating at him.
00:42:14
And then, and I won't get too much away, but there's a, a
00:42:17
scene with his, with his father, who he learned some things about
00:42:22
his dad and, and their commonalities.
00:42:27
And it kind of sets a, it gives him, it enlightens him a great
00:42:33
deal to where he can embrace this feeling he has.
00:42:38
Not to say he's going to go out and just start mowing down
00:42:41
Cartel or anything like that, but it's OK to feel the way
00:42:46
you're feeling and then circumstances come back around.
00:42:52
Still a little bit tied to Invisidata, some characters that
00:42:58
he didn't realize were involved or involved.
00:43:01
Still, it's not the end of the story and I haven't fleshed out
00:43:08
exactly how far that's going to go, where that's going to go.
00:43:11
But there's much bigger players, more powerful players involved
00:43:17
in this. And again, how exactly they're
00:43:23
going to be involved and how exactly it plays out.
00:43:28
I'll know it when I write it probably.
00:43:30
But it's a continuation of the story.
00:43:32
And it's, to me, it's that next step into a realization.
00:43:37
I'm hoping in the book after this that he realizes he's
00:43:41
surrounding themselves and he's in bad company and and he is
00:43:48
welcoming of that. OK.
00:43:50
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that because he does some things here
00:43:54
that will weigh heavily on you, particularly as a lawyer, as a
00:43:58
career professional. I'm sure a couple of things that
00:44:00
they they got to do and they got they got to do to save the day.
00:44:04
You Greg got to grapple with. So it sounds like it's exactly
00:44:07
where I expected him to go. He's got to grapple with it.
00:44:09
And it's it's intriguing to hear some players who we may know may
00:44:13
be more connected than we we previously thought.
00:44:16
And you do something really smart folks, when you finish
00:44:18
this book. There's a short teaser for Core
00:44:21
of Truth And I thought that was so cool because I finished the
00:44:24
book and I'm expecting here's a preview of the next 10.
00:44:27
Great, a chapter or two. And then it's only one line.
00:44:30
I'm not going to say much more about it, but that one line,
00:44:34
make it, it makes you want it. It makes you want it.
00:44:36
So that was a really smart, like, pull the rug out from us.
00:44:40
Well, I, I hope so. And I, you know, the way it ends
00:44:43
in recalling again, it's I don't want to give away too much, but
00:44:48
it's, there's a little bit of a, a bow tied, tied around it.
00:44:52
I would say I didn't want, you obviously want to leave a little
00:44:58
bit of a, a clipping in there. That's why I wanted to put, I
00:45:00
wasn't very far into it. I didn't know what the prologue
00:45:03
was going to be as of yet, but I wanted people to know Not over
00:45:09
yet. Yeah, that got me.
00:45:10
That got me, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was a
00:45:16
tremendous amount of, and I'm having a tremendous amount of
00:45:18
fun just meeting guys like you and, and the founders group and,
00:45:23
and the, and the feedback I'm getting.
00:45:25
And you know, any time a review comes through and I get to read
00:45:27
it, my heart starts pounding a little bit.
00:45:29
And, but so far so good. I've had, I've had really good
00:45:32
reviews and, and I'm hoping that continues, but it's a tough
00:45:37
process. It is self-publishing is not
00:45:38
easy. And but, you know, I'll, I'll,
00:45:43
I'll keep figuring it out and I'll, and at the end of the day,
00:45:46
I'll, I'll keep writing books too.
00:45:48
You got to, it's got a, you know, and if I remember you, you
00:45:52
brought up Eric Bishop, but he, he would write stuff and put it
00:45:56
away or start something else and then think and come back.
00:46:00
And then it would just be, you know, the more and more like
00:46:02
you, you said you're writing a process like the more and more
00:46:04
you expand and contract, expand and contract.
00:46:07
And I think like the better the book, better things get that
00:46:10
way. So.
00:46:11
Sure, Yeah. And the patrons seem to have
00:46:13
some really good feedback for you.
00:46:14
A couple of our fellow patrons have read the book podcast
00:46:18
listeners and just like us, they they can criticize things like
00:46:21
we've had. A lot, yeah.
00:46:22
We've had a lot of the chats ripping books apart and, and
00:46:25
everyone so far, like myself, has been really positive in the
00:46:28
group chat. A lot of the things we talked
00:46:30
about tonight that that we loved, a lot of fellow podcast
00:46:34
listeners have loved so. Yeah, it was really good to hear
00:46:37
that and, and really good to see that.
00:46:40
And they warned me, hey, we're, we're, we're going to give some
00:46:44
honest feedback here. And, and, and, and they did
00:46:47
they, they give a little feedback on, on the jump, you
00:46:49
know, the little bit. I had to really pay attention to
00:46:52
the, to the timeline. And I don't disagree with that,
00:46:56
but I think if you do pay attention to it, it's not it, it
00:47:00
adds to the story, doesn't distract from it.
00:47:02
But I think that, yeah, they've been, they've been amazing.
00:47:05
And I even shared the, the potential new covers for for
00:47:09
core truth. And I was scared to do that.
00:47:11
Let me tell you, I'm like, Oh my God.
00:47:16
But, you know, positive reception.
00:47:17
Yeah, positive reception and. What's it like being in the
00:47:20
Patron group from your perspective?
00:47:22
What's it like joining us? Well, you know, I feel like a
00:47:26
latecomer obviously. And you know, everybody seems to
00:47:29
know each other well and, and get along real well.
00:47:32
And I want to, you know, I want to show a little bit of my
00:47:37
personality because I'm, I don't purposely trying to do that, but
00:47:40
I'm also not holding back from some of the stupid shit I say,
00:47:43
you know, from time to time. And, and then I get kind of
00:47:47
where like, do they get my sense of humor or they, they know I'm
00:47:50
just, I'm just kidding. But it's, I'll tell you what
00:47:54
changed me and I'll show you what changed the way I approach
00:47:57
writing. Hey.
00:48:00
Oh. Scorecard.
00:48:02
Scorecard it works. And it's sitting on top of.
00:48:08
It's a very high score. About halfway through and it's
00:48:12
my Jack car a little bookmark there.
00:48:16
But yeah, this this changed the way I think this is phenomenal
00:48:20
for what you what you guys look for and I say you guys is in is
00:48:25
in serious thriller thriller readers.
00:48:28
And I started to go through and question almost score recoil of
00:48:32
justice on it too. And like, Oh my God, the setting
00:48:36
that I do that I do a good enough job on describing the
00:48:38
setting. Is the setting believable?
00:48:40
So it has changed my approach though in writing.
00:48:43
It really has and I really appreciate the hell out of it,
00:48:48
to be honest with you. And I'm, I'm was nervous to when
00:48:52
y'all did the scorecard on can't remember his fade or fade in or
00:48:56
whichever 1 you guys did it on. I thought, Oh my God, are they
00:49:00
going to do this online? Just present it to me right in
00:49:03
front of me. So I got a little nervous, but
00:49:06
yeah, it's, it's I've, I've been, it's been so welcoming to
00:49:10
be part of the founders group. If anybody out there thinks they
00:49:12
may want to do this, don't hesitate.
00:49:14
It's fantastic. And everybody seems to be tight
00:49:18
net and caring. And you know, we share some
00:49:21
personal things on there as well.
00:49:23
And, and you, you kind of get to know people and, and feel like
00:49:26
you're building friendships. Yeah, that's good.
00:49:29
Love that it's it's my second family, third family.
00:49:34
Yeah, we, I think when we launched the Patreon group, we
00:49:37
already had a number of listeners.
00:49:38
We knew the podcast faithful were on social media.
00:49:40
We're like, what if we get even tighter with a group chat and
00:49:43
quarterly Hangouts. So we, we look forward to
00:49:45
actually having you on one of those our book club Hangouts.
00:49:48
Maybe we'll do your book as one of our book club books, but we
00:49:51
let the group vote. Everyone gets a vote.
00:49:52
Yeah, like, yeah, let everybody vote and I don't want to force
00:49:55
force anybody to do it. But, and a little, I hope I can
00:49:58
say this, the Mitch Wrap Founders group is coming out
00:50:04
Founders clubs. Coming out the ambassadors,
00:50:05
Yeah, yeah, yes. If you've never applied to that,
00:50:09
I recommend it. It's you get an early copy of
00:50:11
the book. They want you to put a review
00:50:13
out early and whatnot and push it on your socials.
00:50:16
But I feel like the group who gets the Mitch Wrap books early
00:50:20
almost all want to have side chats and like DMS going on
00:50:23
talking about it, but they can't post the spoilers.
00:50:25
So yeah, it really builds a lot of hype for the next book for
00:50:28
sure. I wish Brad Thor would do that
00:50:30
because I read the Brad Thor book a month ago now and I
00:50:33
couldn't talk about it with anybody.
00:50:35
And I liked it so much. So now that people like yourself
00:50:37
and Chris are starting to finish it, I'm like, I could finally
00:50:40
talk about it. Yeah.
00:50:41
Yeah, yeah. And you just said Brad Thor
00:50:44
book. I have some hot takes and that's
00:50:46
all I'm going to say. All right.
00:50:47
So there's no spoiler alert, you know, so that was it got me
00:50:51
excited to excited to read it. And you know, with trying to
00:50:55
market my book and trying to work on core truth a little bit,
00:50:58
I've almost had to like make a decision, am IA reader or am IA
00:51:01
writer because there's so much of your time that's taken up
00:51:06
just trying to get launch a book and get it off the ground.
00:51:09
But so I bought the book and I download the audio book too.
00:51:13
So when I'm taking my son to baseball or or going to pick him
00:51:16
up from camp or going to get a haircut this morning, So I had a
00:51:19
15 minute drive. I'm trying to get the, you know,
00:51:22
15 minutes of the audio book here and then coming home to an
00:51:24
hour of the book and then find some time to to ride and, you
00:51:29
know, work in my real job as well, so.
00:51:35
Triple dipping, yeah. Yeah.
00:51:37
If it weren't for audiobooks, we would not be able to crank out
00:51:40
as much content as we do audiobooks.
00:51:42
And your drive to work, Chris, particularly commuting is the
00:51:46
only way I can get these things read.
00:51:48
Yeah. So we don't, we don't commute.
00:51:50
I mean, Lubbock's quarter million people, the most I'm
00:51:54
ever in the car for is maybe 10 minutes.
00:51:56
So the only time I'm really is, you know, times like that or if
00:52:00
I'm, you know, on a road trip and just makes the miles click.
00:52:03
So I kind of had to do both. I can't listen to an audio book
00:52:06
at home. Too many distractions.
00:52:09
I can't just sit there and stare off into space and listen to an
00:52:12
audio book because if I'm listening to and doing something
00:52:14
else, I won't pay attention to the book.
00:52:16
So I have to have, I usually will buy the just like with one
00:52:20
of the Mitch Rad books. I've got both the print book and
00:52:23
and the audio book that I can take advantage of whatever
00:52:26
whatever setting up on myself in.
00:52:28
You know what I actually did with yours since we had the
00:52:31
electronic version. I hope you don't mind.
00:52:33
And I don't know if this breaks any copyright rules.
00:52:35
I put it into an AI program to read it aloud to me.
00:52:39
And I know you have an audio coming, so yeah, I won't send
00:52:42
that out to anybody. But I was able to pick Burt
00:52:44
Reynolds voice. So I had your book read to me by
00:52:47
Burt Reynolds. My God, I wish I hadn't hired my
00:52:51
guy. Now I want Burt Reynolds to do
00:52:52
my book. It didn't have accent.
00:52:55
I mean, it was like. Program.
00:52:56
It doesn't have a Texas accent and then it didn't have the
00:52:58
Spanish accent 'cause. That's so I don't fall with it.
00:53:01
I, I played around with it a little bit and then I, I was, I
00:53:04
was swapping back and forth between reading and, and and
00:53:06
using the, the app 'cause like I and I was having fun with the
00:53:08
app just like playing around with it, but like the nuance and
00:53:12
like the reason why I think. It's not there.
00:53:15
Chad GBT or whatever is nowhere near there ready is that's
00:53:20
right. These guys are actors, you know,
00:53:21
like Armand Schultz, Ray Porter, our favorite, George Waddell,
00:53:28
You know, they just add, add, add so much nuance to the to the
00:53:32
story. I like that guy that you found
00:53:34
you, or at least you shared. I don't know if you're going
00:53:36
with him, but that that one. 'S I am, yeah.
00:53:38
Eric Priesman is his name, or I think it's Priesman is how you
00:53:41
pronounce it. Yeah.
00:53:43
He's a retired California Highway Patrol.
00:53:48
And I, I said, how did you get into this?
00:53:50
And he's like, well, he's he was like the the guy you talk to
00:53:54
when you've at the end of his career anyway, when you first
00:53:56
walk through the door and he kind of takes, you know, takes,
00:53:58
you know, people and they'll just walk in or, or he's the not
00:54:03
going to call it a receptionist, whatever the whatever the
00:54:05
Highway Patrol calls the person they first see when you walk in.
00:54:07
He said so many people said, man, you have a great voice, you
00:54:10
should try this. Wow.
00:54:12
And he has a phenomenal voice and he's done 50 some odd books
00:54:16
so far and he's retired and young man, you know, probably
00:54:20
mid 50s or so. And yeah, I I really did like
00:54:24
him and I went through a lot of different, you know, there's
00:54:26
some really good websites out there to for people who are very
00:54:29
good what they do. But just the inflection like
00:54:33
Chris you were talking about on the AI models and I, I listened
00:54:37
to some of those in the beginning too.
00:54:38
And there's a couple of them. You know, you can download part
00:54:40
of your book in there and it'll read it.
00:54:42
But the inflections, because to me, voice actors reflection
00:54:48
means a ton. I mean, where they can in the
00:54:54
chapter perfectly or the the differences in cadence in the
00:55:00
words and knowing when to pause just a little bit.
00:55:04
It's it's a talent. So I actually try to myself.
00:55:08
Really. Oh, really?
00:55:09
I'm like, I've got all this equipment, I know how to read
00:55:12
it. Could work. 4 sentences.
00:55:16
I made it 4 sentences. I don't like quit.
00:55:19
Not a chance. It's because you don't.
00:55:22
You don't realize how many times you like that Are those those
00:55:27
things? And it's hard to read aloud and
00:55:31
make it sound like you're not 1/3 grader.
00:55:35
I mean, it's it's a talent. So I would gain respect for
00:55:38
those guys a great deal. And yeah, I like, I like Erica
00:55:42
Lock. I think he's going to do a great
00:55:44
job and I'm excited to get it out looking.
00:55:46
Probably he is conservatively sane mid August, but it could be
00:55:53
as early as 1st of August. So.
00:55:56
That's pretty quick. Nice.
00:55:58
Yeah, I thought it was really quick too.
00:56:00
What was pub day like for you? Probably something we should
00:56:02
have started with. What did it feel like that day?
00:56:04
You, you put this thing out there, just did you celebrate
00:56:07
that? Were you nervous?
00:56:10
It was almost it's about damn time.
00:56:14
So I'm I'm going to be I don't want to throw anybody under the
00:56:19
bus. But I mean, I hired like kind of
00:56:21
alluded to earlier, I hired a company to help me publish the
00:56:24
book because I didn't know what I was doing.
00:56:26
I had truly had zero idea and paid him a lot of money to do it
00:56:31
and getting answers out of them was like it was literally like
00:56:38
pulling teeth. I finished writing the book on
00:56:42
my way to Vegas January 13th. I was completely done and it
00:56:48
took till June the 18th to get it published and that made no
00:56:55
sense to me whatsoever. And it was 1 issue after another
00:56:58
one issue after another, one issue after another and then
00:57:01
going dark for a week and 1/2. So it was almost like I, it
00:57:07
didn't feel like a celebration because I had so much not anger
00:57:11
built up, just frustration built up.
00:57:15
But then I flushed that. I'm like, you know what ship has
00:57:19
sailed. It is what it is.
00:57:20
It's out now it's time for summer.
00:57:22
You know, let's let's take the positives out of this.
00:57:24
You know, we can mark it as a as a good summer read or beach read
00:57:28
or or whatever. And then I got excited when you
00:57:33
see like people are actually buying it and you're in Amazon,
00:57:38
you know, ratings are going up and people leave reviews and
00:57:41
yeah, you're like, Oh my God, this is cool.
00:57:43
People actually are reading something.
00:57:45
I created it's that was then it got really exciting and you know
00:57:50
my my not motivation, but my view on this changes every hour
00:57:58
when Amazon releases to where your book is ranked.
00:58:02
You know they do that every. Hour.
00:58:04
So wow. Oh my God, it's down 21
00:58:06
places. Oh wait, it's up 58 places a
00:58:09
neck, you know, but you know, there's so many bugs on there.
00:58:11
It could sell 4 copies and be up 100 places, you know, So
00:58:15
like I say, it's been a, it's been a real learning process.
00:58:17
But, but in my, my life is kind of consumed with it right now.
00:58:22
And you know, and my wife will come in and says, what are you
00:58:26
doing? You know and.
00:58:28
Refreshing. Yeah, just hitting this refresh
00:58:31
button. Sounds like me in the podcast
00:58:34
consumed by it. Yeah.
00:58:36
Exactly. Exactly.
00:58:38
Well, you guys have a great product.
00:58:40
Really you do. You have a fantastic product and
00:58:43
I'm so happy to be a part of it. Well, thank you.
00:58:46
Thank you for coming on. This is great.
00:58:47
You bet. I I think I made the #3 Brad, is
00:58:51
that right? I'm.
00:58:53
Who's Brad number? 2 they said to, but I can't put
00:58:55
myself head of Taylor, I mean. And then I thought, have you had
00:58:59
Messler on? No.
00:59:02
OK, well then. You're the number 2, Brad, that
00:59:04
we've had on. To come on the podcast, yes, OK
00:59:08
#2 Brad comes on. I'm fine going down to #3 then.
00:59:13
Jeez, I called you Matthew McConaughey to open and now you
00:59:15
want to be better than all these other guys too?
00:59:19
I said I'm fine being 2 and. Three.
00:59:21
All right, all right, all right, all right.
00:59:26
Oh, man yeah, Brad, great book. Recoil of Justice.
00:59:30
Guys, if you made it through this interview and you haven't
00:59:33
purchased the book, what are you waiting for?
00:59:34
Maybe you're waiting for the audio book.
00:59:36
That's. That's fine if that's the case,
00:59:37
but make sure you get your copy. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
00:59:41
It's a hit and maybe this is a compliment.
00:59:44
I would have never guessed it was a first book it did not
00:59:47
read. Like a debut book?
00:59:48
Well. Thank you.
00:59:49
Thank you for saying that. Actually, I didn't know it was a
00:59:51
debut book until you you told me on the podcast here.
00:59:56
So it's all right. Yeah.
00:59:58
Thank you that I'll take that as a huge compliment.
01:00:01
Again, I didn't know what I was doing, but I worked very hard at
01:00:06
it and, you know, I had a great good editor as well and, and.
01:00:11
I'm, I'm, I'm kind of overwhelmed by the comment, to
01:00:13
be honest with you. Thank you.
01:00:13
Thank you so much for saying that.
01:00:15
You know, as a, as a self published author, you know, we
01:00:20
have to, we have to be able to build readership and we have to,
01:00:23
you know, and you know, the, the best way to, I think to do that
01:00:27
is go to my website, sign up for, you know, updates, sign up,
01:00:31
you know, if you don't mind putting your e-mail address in
01:00:33
there. I don't send a lot of emails,
01:00:36
you know, probably too few to be honest with you.
01:00:39
But go to my website, bradeldernovels.com.
01:00:42
Sign up for updates. You know, there's a few cool
01:00:45
things on there. You'll get a, a sneak peek of
01:00:47
the of the prologue of of Corp truth and I'll be running some
01:00:51
specials on probably some free downloads of the of the e-book
01:00:54
of of recall and then in the near future anyway.
01:00:58
But we, we thrive on that as an independent author, you know, we
01:01:04
don't have a, a publishing house with a huge marketing team going
01:01:07
out there and who has a, a mountain of contacts that they
01:01:12
can send it out to. We build it, you know, we what
01:01:15
we kill, you know, and, and if anybody's interested, I'd
01:01:18
appreciate so much them going out and, and, and signing up.
01:01:22
And, and I think you, you will not be inundated with, with
01:01:26
emails that can assure you. Or you can follow me on
01:01:28
Facebook, Brad Elder novels and then Instagram Brad dot elder
01:01:33
dot novels. Don't judge my Instagram
01:01:35
account. I'm terrible again, I'm 54 years
01:01:39
old. Instagram was one of those.
01:01:41
I still don't know how to use it very well, but but I can post a
01:01:44
few things and and just just to communicate with those folks who
01:01:48
who like either platform. Well, how about one more little
01:01:51
marketing push for people who've listened this long?
01:01:54
We will do a Thriller Pod giveaway.
01:01:56
So we will purchase a copy of your book.
01:01:58
We will send it out to somebody, but you have to sign up for
01:02:02
Brad's emails. Brad Elder novels.com.
01:02:04
You've got to follow him on Instagram with that amazing
01:02:07
Instagram account he has. It's going viral.
01:02:09
It's it's very gripping. And you're going to have to put
01:02:12
in the comments on any one of our socials, Facebook,
01:02:15
Instagram, Twitter, the code word wild boar.
01:02:19
So if you listen to this episode, you got the code word
01:02:21
wild boar. Put that in the comments.
01:02:24
Sign up for Brad's newsletter and you'll have a chance to win
01:02:26
a copy of his book. Maybe he'll sign it for you.
01:02:28
I'll sign it for you too. There we go.
01:02:30
Absolutely. Cool.
01:02:32
All right. Thanks, Brad.
01:02:33
It's great, a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much.
01:02:35
Appreciate it very much and hope to catch up with you guys again
01:02:38
soon. Definitely.