Chris & Mike are joined again by Jack Carr superfan, Tyler Booher, to discuss their ThrillerPod Scorecard ratings and rankings of Only the Dead by Jack Carr - the latest release in "The Terminal List" series featuring James Reece.
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00:00:14
Hey guys. I'm Chris and I'm Mike and
00:00:19
welcome back to this week's No Limits.
00:00:21
The Thriller podcast. Before I get to how you doing,
00:00:25
Mike, should we let people know we have a special guest today.
00:00:28
Tyler Booher is back, thanks for joining us again for God, who
00:00:33
knows the fifth time on the podcast, fifth or sixth.
00:00:36
What's up guys? How's it going?
00:00:37
I think, I think you're now the maybe you and Brian like you and
00:00:41
Brian are the to your neck and neck with a who's been on the
00:00:45
Thriller podcast the most. So yeah, last week as we were
00:00:50
talking I was like, you know, we got to have Tyler on and then
00:00:53
halfway through the pot or like when we got to the other pod
00:00:56
Mike was like we were going for almost an hour and we still
00:01:01
hadn't gotten to our scorecard yet.
00:01:02
And he's like, you know, let's let's cut it there.
00:01:04
Let's see if that I can come on next week.
00:01:06
And we're glad you made the time to come.
00:01:08
Come hang out with us, not a problem.
00:01:09
I had to, I had to finish up. Actually, I Mike had texted me
00:01:13
and I hadn't hadn't finished the newest book yet.
00:01:16
So I actually waited until I went to a local All signing
00:01:22
close to me actually in Cleveland.
00:01:24
So I traveled over there to see Jack for a little bit and then
00:01:27
got my copy from him and brought it back to Pittsburgh.
00:01:30
So nice. Nice.
00:01:32
How was that? Tell us a little bit about it.
00:01:34
It was good, it was an hour event and then within that hour,
00:01:40
you know, we did a little bit of Q&A with the audience and then
00:01:44
After that, we did the sign line and did photos and stuff.
00:01:49
So, when pretty good though, some good questions, some good
00:01:52
questions from, you know, a lot of the questions that the
00:01:55
interviewer asks is reversed, but, you know, it's questions,
00:01:59
he gets on the regular, you know, interviews and stuff.
00:02:03
He does each year, you can tell some of the stuff is handed to
00:02:06
them but the Q&A with the audience was pretty solid
00:02:09
though, right? That was a huge part of us doing
00:02:13
the podcast. Cast because we had all these
00:02:16
virtual tours during covid and we just kept hearing the same
00:02:20
questions and all the authors would give kind of boilerplate
00:02:24
language that they already had given in four other interviews.
00:02:28
And there were a lot of times these interviewers had to read
00:02:31
the book or weren't familiar with the main character or the
00:02:34
series. And Chris and I were like
00:02:37
there's got to be some better content out there and we want to
00:02:40
bring authors on after the fact. So I haven't done it yet Chris
00:02:43
but I'm going to reach out to David and see if you know, we
00:02:46
can get Jack on the show and bring Brad back when his new
00:02:50
book comes out and Kyle and Don Bentley over the next few months
00:02:53
and I feel like Ty exactly what you're saying.
00:02:55
Some of these book tours are great, but particularly during
00:02:57
the covid times, we were all watching them online.
00:02:59
They got so dry and boring. We want it to be able to ask
00:03:02
different questions, get into the spoilers and I never heard
00:03:06
an author really talk, heavy spoilers in any other interview
00:03:09
except for when they're on our show.
00:03:10
So that's like the the same angle that we like to take.
00:03:14
Especially, I don't know when we started.
00:03:16
I guess we started with Kyle, right?
00:03:17
When we had him on one time post booked or do we got any the late
00:03:23
in the book tour? Or you know, it was after the
00:03:25
book of come out and Mike started recording.
00:03:28
These are we record like simply two pods, right?
00:03:31
One where we do the pre pod stuff.
00:03:33
We were able to do before the book came out and we actually
00:03:36
Recorded the spoiler section where we actually got to ask
00:03:38
them questions and that was the more fun part.
00:03:39
And he actually had fun talking about it because he was saying
00:03:42
that, you know, I I write the book and I really get to talk
00:03:46
about it and even recently with Connor Sullivan, right?
00:03:49
He's like, we talked to him about sleeping are which at the
00:03:52
time he had a wrote a long time ago and it was like, oh this is
00:03:55
fun. I actually go back and think
00:03:57
about what I wrote because I'm so far removed from it.
00:04:00
Especially, you know what, by the time we get it, they've
00:04:02
dropped it off. I don't know.
00:04:03
Six months, couple months before that and then Then by the time
00:04:07
we get to read it, you know, it's even even further on out.
00:04:09
So I much prefer talking to them about actual nitty-gritty, you
00:04:15
know, not like nitpicky stop. But you know, like actual plot
00:04:17
details, we can go into that. Why did you why did you do this?
00:04:19
Why did you kill that character? You know, as opposed to what do
00:04:23
you got in store per as this time?
00:04:25
You know. Yeah, exactly.
00:04:28
Exactly. Well that being said, Ty, why
00:04:31
don't you take us into your first reaction, what you think
00:04:34
when you first got the book, open the book, read the little
00:04:37
author's, note in the very beginning and jumped into that
00:04:39
incredible prologue and first chapter.
00:04:42
Yeah, I felt the same way that we had discussed in previous
00:04:45
ones, you know that. I don't really care too much
00:04:48
about the prologue. I want to know what was going on
00:04:50
with, with Reese and they happen with the other, you know, the
00:04:55
last last few books as well. And at a certain point in the
00:04:58
story, I I wish I had more of the prologue, but when I'm
00:05:02
reading the prologue for the first time, for some reason, I
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typically just want to want to get back to where the
00:05:09
Cliffhanger had happened, and they kind of make it make you
00:05:12
wait a little bit, but I like the prologue.
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It definitely had some very big Bond.
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Big, big bowl on Vibes, some Fleming Vibes for sure.
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So I really enjoyed it, you know, I could almost like here
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theme music for some of the scenes that was going on.
00:05:29
During the Cold War. So I enjoyed it a lot.
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I thought the author's note was good, it's always solid same
00:05:35
with the epilogue is always solid to and having just just, I
00:05:40
read a little bit of it and then I listen to the rest from Ray
00:05:43
Porter and it's always enjoyable.
00:05:45
That's way of consumed pretty much all the other ones the
00:05:47
first time around was with with Ray Porter, reading it and then
00:05:50
I'll go back and read them a second time.
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So having just done like one pass through, I thought it was
00:05:55
just general overview. I thought it was very solid
00:05:58
pretty polished. I think in a good way.
00:06:01
So yeah, I was thinking about you with that first chapter
00:06:05
because we had spoken about wanting to get back to re-sand.
00:06:09
If you leave a cliffhanger like you did and in the blood.
00:06:12
Yeah, we better open up with that and so I think you're
00:06:14
right, the prologue, maybe distracts a little, but chapter
00:06:17
12, livers for sure. Absolutely delivers in that in
00:06:21
that cell. And since you mentioned Ray
00:06:23
Porter, that scene is one of the best things I've ever heard any
00:06:28
audiobook, narrator. To read.
00:06:30
Yeah, we're inside Reese's head and he's got the voice speaking
00:06:33
to him and here, Ray Porter, do that?
00:06:35
Just blows my mind. Were you satisfied?
00:06:38
Once you finally got to the res plot line in chapter 1, and then
00:06:41
I guess kind of the bad guys scheming in chapter two,
00:06:44
absolutely. I think, I think it was pretty
00:06:47
satisfying. I think, maybe my only let down,
00:06:50
like, I really like the struggle, you know, not knowing
00:06:52
where he is and and learning him learning his way around and
00:06:56
everything like that. And the complexity of him just
00:06:59
being Imprisoned basically, I really enjoyed all that stuff
00:07:04
but I think him getting out even though you eventually learn how
00:07:09
long it was. I think maybe it was a little
00:07:10
too easy, the gravity. I think of the end of the last
00:07:14
book is kind of like yeah we're good.
00:07:18
It's okay. He can he can go free even
00:07:21
though you know you eventually learn who does it and has the
00:07:25
impact on it and why it feels like in the moment when he gets
00:07:28
out. You know, you realize that like
00:07:31
Alice had a little bit to do with with him getting out and
00:07:34
everything but I don't know, maybe she had a little bit to do
00:07:37
with him getting in, you know that because we don't know what
00:07:39
we're left on that Cliffhanger. Yeah, II agree with you.
00:07:42
I think, you know, he could have gone one of two ways.
00:07:44
He could have left him in the prison longer and we could have
00:07:47
seen his story develop outside. But, you know, we want to see
00:07:52
James reason action, you know, like ikana, you know, I can see
00:07:56
both sides. I think him being in being in
00:07:58
like a gen pop. Environment might have been more
00:08:02
fun but the, the seclusion and darkness is pretty awesome with
00:08:05
the voices and stuff. But a gen-pop scenario would
00:08:08
have definitely been entertaining, an action e.
00:08:10
And you know someone maybe has some information that gives him
00:08:16
some information that puts him on a little bit more of a route
00:08:19
to get out or something like that and not necessarily A
00:08:21
breakout. But what to do when he gets out
00:08:23
and who to go after would be, would have been kind of cool,
00:08:26
but I'm happy with how they did it, because once he gets out
00:08:28
it's like it's back. To back to the mission back to
00:08:31
like Party Time. Where's where's the key for the
00:08:34
safety deposit box? Where's where's the note?
00:08:37
He kind of picked picks up where he left off and it it's not that
00:08:40
the prison time was for nothing either because it does impact
00:08:43
him pretty significantly. I feel you see what a like Reese
00:08:47
to have a red, you know, in there with recent a little bit
00:08:50
that helps bring them out or something not necessarily not
00:08:53
necessarily spring him out. He can still get out the way he
00:08:55
was in there, but I feel like, I don't know.
00:08:58
I feel like I More of him in imprisoned.
00:09:02
Like I feel like the gravity of him getting getting arrested at
00:09:06
the end of the last book isn't carried over as intensely at the
00:09:09
beginning of this one. He's just in solitary
00:09:12
confinement. You eventually learn using.
00:09:13
They're in there for 19 months. Yeah.
00:09:15
And which is pretty significant, but as you're reading it, you're
00:09:18
like, you know, obviously he's starting to either lose a shit
00:09:22
or he just hearing some voices in the darkness and can't really
00:09:26
figure out his time, discrepancies and things like
00:09:28
that. So, I just think maybe the
00:09:30
intensity of the end of the last book isn't quite carried as
00:09:35
intense into the prison sentence.
00:09:38
I see, I think, I think it hits, you know, reading it because
00:09:43
like we had the arcs. And so I listened to the first
00:09:47
three chapters with the audiobook, and we did a pod, and
00:09:51
then I, you know, I of course being me I had to keep going.
00:09:54
So I picked up a Blog, I started reading.
00:09:55
And then, you know, I guess it's like two more chapters.
00:09:58
We get back to another Another prison scene and just like, real
00:10:01
me reading it, it helped that I had had like reporters like
00:10:06
voice in my head and I could kind of like as I was reading
00:10:08
self narrate myself to that. But I could see how if I'm just
00:10:11
reading it for the first time like that, that first chapter
00:10:14
doesn't hit that hard and I kind of agree that like maybe the
00:10:16
intensity isn't ratcheted up like that after coming off the
00:10:21
end of the last book, but you know, I guess he could have gone
00:10:24
one of two ways, you know especially you know, harkening
00:10:28
back to like a James. Bond movie or some sort of spy
00:10:31
movie where he's in there, Alice sneaks in, you know, like an air
00:10:35
pot or something is able to communicate with him, are you?
00:10:38
This is all you need to get out of that.
00:10:39
I could see how that would be kind of cool to do, but I will
00:10:42
say I did like getting, you know, this inner demon idea of
00:10:47
like meeting, you know, seeing a little bit of a breakdown of
00:10:52
James Reese. And, you know, seeing a little
00:10:54
bit more of the man who he is. And I because, I think the whole
00:10:56
novel and what this three book Work has been about like the
00:11:02
connections to his father connection to his past Universe.
00:11:05
Sort of moving away. We're kind of he brings up Lucy
00:11:09
and Lauren a little bit but we're now like that far removed
00:11:14
from them and we're seeing a little bit different side of him
00:11:16
so I don't know. I like the progression of James
00:11:19
Reese, especially like what we saw of him being in that
00:11:22
isolation and I think it's like a big shock.
00:11:24
Like here, he's like, holy shit. Like I was in there three months
00:11:27
like that when I read that line, I was like, wow.
00:11:30
Yeah, for sure because I think to the reader you don't expect
00:11:32
him to be in there that long, just the way it's written.
00:11:35
You know, you kind of have a little bit of an idea.
00:11:36
He says, his hair is down to his shoulders and his beard, super
00:11:39
long and stuff. But yeah, it is, it is a little
00:11:41
bit of a shock. I like his behavior and
00:11:43
everything when he gets out, and I thought that the chapters with
00:11:46
Katie surprising him at the, at the hotel, and everything was
00:11:49
pretty, you know, spot-on and well-written.
00:11:52
And you know, I see pretty entertaining.
00:11:54
Yeah, just just for being, you know, some spicy It was actually
00:12:00
pretty entertaining and like, the dialogue felt natural.
00:12:05
I felt like the dialogue felt pretty genuine, so I like, I
00:12:09
think his his dialogue and the back and forth between
00:12:13
characters and his action is super polished.
00:12:17
Like, I've never read action as polished as this like I can
00:12:21
imagine. It's so well, especially
00:12:22
Jiu-Jitsu stuff. The way it's described in.
00:12:24
Actually, he talked about that a little bit.
00:12:26
That was the probably the most interesting thing, he said at
00:12:29
the Event that I attended was that he has a friend.
00:12:33
Can't recall if he's an army guy or a Navy guy he's either.
00:12:38
I don't know if he's a CAG operator or a seal but him and
00:12:42
his wife basically Jack will send them a description of what
00:12:48
he wants done. And this husband and wife film,
00:12:51
The Action sequence on their phones or cameras and send it to
00:12:55
Jack and he writes it out in more detail.
00:12:59
He likes. Motions and will type it out.
00:13:02
So that's how he gets his action sequences.
00:13:05
So, so well. So he'll basically say like
00:13:07
okay, hand to hand combat patch, it comes out Hatchet to head and
00:13:10
then they'll film it and he'll do all their details and stuff
00:13:15
on the pages, which is pretty, pretty cool detail.
00:13:17
I thought it was since you brought up the, that's really
00:13:20
cool. Then since you brought the
00:13:22
action, I feel like Jack leveled up here.
00:13:25
I haven't and Chris you mentioned this in one of our
00:13:28
earlier episodes. Thuds.
00:13:30
You asked has he written action? This consistent?
00:13:34
This gripping and this often since terminal list and at the
00:13:38
time I said I think Savage Sun matched the action.
00:13:42
So I said, I, this is definitely his best action writing since
00:13:46
Savage Sun. I might even go back and say, in
00:13:49
terms of consistency, start to finish and how hard these action
00:13:54
scenes hit. Whether we're in the bank, you
00:13:57
know, in the first third or so the Honor in that second third
00:14:01
or the nuke seen on the yacht in the in act three.
00:14:06
I don't know man. I might actually take you up on
00:14:08
that Chris and say. Yeah, this might be the best
00:14:10
written action sequence. Start to finish that he's done
00:14:15
since terminal list. I might actually bump it up
00:14:17
above Savage Sun, just because Savage Sun.
00:14:20
I the only ones I could really recall that were pure Thriller
00:14:25
was the hunting in the woods on Kamchatka Peninsula.
00:14:28
Right there were a few Other things sprinkled in, for sure,
00:14:31
but it kept coming back to that one setting.
00:14:33
We're here we're in a bank or in a sauna, you know, where we're
00:14:37
on a boat, in the Mediterranean, I feel like he's doing something
00:14:41
different here that just hits so hard.
00:14:44
The one that stands out to me from in the blood is the meat
00:14:48
locker fight. That's really, really stands
00:14:52
out. Super well described and he
00:14:54
talked about that as well. He said, you know, he he Like
00:15:00
the devil's hand was a little weak and he thinks, you know, he
00:15:03
started writing for the Amazon show around the, you know,
00:15:07
shortly after that. He thinks the screenwriting and
00:15:09
things for the Amazon show, has helped him change a little bit
00:15:13
for the books in some ways. But I know we had discussed that
00:15:16
offline before. So, but I was curious to see, I
00:15:20
know you guys both rag down the cover originally and I was
00:15:23
curious if you guys still feel that way or not, because I do
00:15:26
not, I like to cover now especially because the The
00:15:30
Winkler Tomahawk is a one-to-one scale.
00:15:33
I love the cover from the beginning.
00:15:34
I don't remember what you speak of.
00:15:36
We, we might have picked our nits as we tend to do, but I
00:15:40
think from the jump, I love this one.
00:15:41
And then we like to judge a cover by the book.
00:15:44
If you're judging this by the book is perfect.
00:15:47
I mean, I'll give it even more of a shout because angle, we
00:15:51
feel like we're in the water and that happens Reese uses the
00:15:55
water. Maybe it was.
00:15:56
Kristen said, It felt too much like a romance novel, I think.
00:15:59
I did that so white. I did.
00:16:02
All right, you caught me. But I will say after reading the
00:16:04
book and like You know, we're big fans about you have the book
00:16:10
cover I believe has to has to mean, something to the novel,
00:16:14
you know, where, you know, it can't just be some generic
00:16:16
bullshit. Or it can't just be something
00:16:18
that has no, no, no, none. You know, I'll never forget the,
00:16:22
the snow train in a bit drab novel, where there was no snow.
00:16:26
There was no train but I digress know if this cover is awesome
00:16:32
and it now that we know, they know, that's obviously off the
00:16:34
coast of Tel Aviv and The the emotional impact of the final
00:16:39
scene or deciding the final scene but like, you know, the
00:16:42
climax of the story on the boat with the tomahawk covers.
00:16:47
Amazing. Yeah, I take back my words, I
00:16:51
really enjoyed every setting. We ended up going to especially
00:16:54
Colorado with the safe house with Po Po's house for some
00:16:57
reason. And you know just when you think
00:17:00
you know, everything about Reese and is his backstory learning,
00:17:05
you know how he spent his childhood.
00:17:06
There with with, with Thomas is pretty significant and it just
00:17:12
like cement Sab, even better foundation for him.
00:17:16
Prior, to this terminal list that you didn't know, but now,
00:17:19
like, it makes more sense. It has more genuine feel to it.
00:17:23
And what do you guys think? I'm really happy with how much
00:17:26
we learned about James is dad in this, in this novel.
00:17:30
This was at Omri story and I think it was a brilliant move.
00:17:35
Because Chris talked about how he thinks this book is going to
00:17:37
bring some finality and closure to a lot and I think the payoff
00:17:41
was there because we've gotten hints about Tom Reiss.
00:17:45
He's been speaking to James in the last few books, you know, as
00:17:48
a ghost. And I think to actually write
00:17:51
him on the page, doing some stuff in his day, I called the
00:17:54
PO and Stow storyline. You know, I think was perfectly
00:17:59
done. It was the right time for it.
00:18:02
And I will say, this is a Tom re story.
00:18:04
Oh yeah, I mean as much as it's a James Reese story, it's also a
00:18:07
Time reach story and I think was a perfect time in the series to
00:18:10
do that. And then even thinking to the
00:18:12
prologue man, the way I think Martha Stowe is describing, Tom
00:18:18
Reiss. We even get some really like
00:18:19
chilling language. Actually, I wrote this one down.
00:18:22
She says, quote, she took stock of the man across the table.
00:18:25
He wasn't smiling. The eyes weren't so much cold as
00:18:29
they were perceptive and alert. Rating.
00:18:32
She had not seen eyes like that before.
00:18:35
I just love our introduction. Actually seeing Tom operate, and
00:18:39
be a CIA officer. Yeah, I don't know why.
00:18:43
I, the detailed it stuck with me.
00:18:44
The most from that prologue is that he had a macv-sog lighter.
00:18:48
I don't know why. That's just such a such a badass
00:18:50
like image to have that. This guy at a table.
00:18:53
She doesn't know that somewhat intimidating, but she has the
00:18:55
balls to talk to the way she does.
00:18:58
Yeah, just has that, has that item.
00:19:01
And for those of you that know, the details of someone who has
00:19:06
something like that, it makes it a little bit more significant.
00:19:09
I love the Speakeasy, the Speakeasy speaking.
00:19:11
So cool, and they were doing sdrs to get there.
00:19:14
She was following her husband. I just, I thought that was
00:19:17
perfectly done. I've wanted to see spycraft in
00:19:20
that era. We've been pining for that in a
00:19:23
lot of different books because you can do it with, you know,
00:19:26
Mitch wraps, Mentor, Thomas Stansfield.
00:19:28
You can do it in breadth or with the old man or with What Scott's
00:19:33
uncle's name, you know, not real Uncle by the Gary, Gary Lawler
00:19:39
like we wanted to see that end. We got a few glimpses of Tom
00:19:43
Reiss, doing that in the Cold War era and then it was tied
00:19:46
into the Vietnam stuff. And and I thought was perfectly
00:19:50
done. Yeah, I agree.
00:19:52
I think only thing I could have made a little bit better.
00:19:54
Is that James has his dad's shotgun?
00:19:57
I wish that would have would have any Brave you into taking.
00:20:01
Yeah out. But yeah no I thought it was
00:20:03
good and I agree. I was going to ask Chris what he
00:20:05
thought I think if we would have waited another book to have a
00:20:08
Thomas Reese Focus story. It would have been a little
00:20:11
burnt out or too late. If we just like ended up with
00:20:14
another Thomas, Reese, Cliffhanger in this one, like he
00:20:16
found the safety deposit box at the end, you're like, Jesus,
00:20:19
come on. Like, you know, we've been
00:20:20
getting the Cliffhanger about Tomas Ruiz for the last three or
00:20:23
four, but I love all the detail and I think that there's a lot
00:20:26
more like we think that, you know, this is definitely Thomas
00:20:28
Reese, Focus story but there is a ton None of uncovered items.
00:20:35
Well, we might want to, I mean, maybe this could be a next Arc,
00:20:38
because I feel like we've had six books.
00:20:40
That's two. Trilogies in a sense Loosely
00:20:43
saying, what if James starts planting these seeds, and you
00:20:47
know, who knows if it will ever be for a child of his own, or
00:20:51
someone else who's picking up the mantle of the work that
00:20:54
needs to be done and what needs to be put in to keep America
00:20:57
dominant in the next, you know, couple of decades and century.
00:21:02
What if James starts planting some of these seeds, you know,
00:21:04
leaving notes leaving safety deposits, or having some like
00:21:10
some stash stuff like these documents he uncovered like,
00:21:12
yeah, we know he sent him to the news outlets or at least he said
00:21:16
he did and then maybe that was a hedge, we don't know, but I want
00:21:19
to see him trying to plant seeds that are going to have a payoff.
00:21:22
Now, two three books down the line, you know, his father
00:21:25
planted the seeds, they saved him.
00:21:27
How is he doing that? And planning ahead for future
00:21:30
threats. That we can't even see.
00:21:32
See it, but that Alice might be able to help him.
00:21:34
See ya, I really like characters that are step ahead of the
00:21:38
competition, and, you know, those type of twists for me or
00:21:41
more enjoyable than betrayal, twists and whodunits or, you
00:21:45
know, identity reveals. I really like when a character
00:21:49
unbeknownst to you as a step ahead of the competition,
00:21:52
especially, you know, main character or someone like in
00:21:54
rapes position. That's a, that's a friend
00:21:56
character and just, you know, planning ahead, and it pays off
00:21:59
that those types of reveals our Satisfying, I think.
00:22:02
And speaking of rafe, I think for being this secondary badass
00:22:09
of of this novel, I think that I think he really shines in Savage
00:22:13
Sun, the most. But in this one I think he plays
00:22:15
his part pretty well and I love Ray Porter, doing the South
00:22:19
African accent and stuff and you know really differentiating his
00:22:22
character that way and especially with Rafe at the end
00:22:26
as well. No the person that yeah he's
00:22:29
talking to, you know, no. Does that the South Africa Umm
00:22:32
the German spy. Yeah.
00:22:33
Yep. If Savage sun was like his
00:22:36
coming out story, you know. This is this is his, you know,
00:22:39
sophomore year, you know, like it.
00:22:41
He's really becoming the true, you know, just to go back to our
00:22:44
roots that this got heart, this the star not score, Harvick
00:22:48
this, the got call Scott Coleman to the Mitch rap, you know, or
00:22:52
you know, whoever Scott's daily, you know, Buckley psychic is.
00:22:57
Yeah, I think, you know, sort of piggyback on what both you guys
00:23:01
said. I think.
00:23:02
If we had, we didn't have this closure with Tom Reyes.
00:23:04
I was just felt like, you know he ever got, it's never going to
00:23:08
be solved, you know, it's like, it's just always going to be
00:23:10
pushed to push the bushes, like, you know, a never ending thing.
00:23:13
I'm interested to see, you know, do we fully trust Alice?
00:23:16
You know, is he going to start trying to plant ways to subvert
00:23:20
Alice, in order to contingency plans to go against her?
00:23:23
Does he? I personally trust Alice Yeah.
00:23:27
And I think, you know, we sort of said it and I said the last
00:23:30
time but it's the writing in this in this as really was taken
00:23:35
up a level and I think it shines in the action science in the
00:23:39
plot. It shines in the dialogue.
00:23:42
So yeah, I think. Well that's true.
00:23:46
And I've seen a few other people.
00:23:47
Post this tie want to get your thoughts on it.
00:23:50
The exposition at times was a little long-winded, we Commented
00:23:56
on it briefly in our episodes, it wasn't enough to, you know,
00:24:00
totally drop our scores, very heavily as we'll see in a
00:24:04
minute. It wasn't enough to really
00:24:06
complain or take away from how good this book is.
00:24:09
But I felt there were, sometimes we could trim the fat.
00:24:12
Whether it's going into stuff about the pows back in Vietnam
00:24:16
or I like that shirt on this. I didn't like the thought, I
00:24:19
didn't like the financial. Like, okay, maybe the economics.
00:24:22
Yeah, the economics lesson though.
00:24:23
I feel like that did not need to be what I think.
00:24:26
I didn't count it might be the longest chapter in the book or
00:24:29
unfortunately felt the longest. I think there's a little fat but
00:24:33
not much and what I think, why? I think it should be left in and
00:24:37
I'm happy it is, he does a really good job at rapping
00:24:40
fiction and nonfiction historical events together and
00:24:44
if you, you know, look in there, there's a lot of nonfiction
00:24:48
historical events that take place and so him.
00:24:51
Wrapping those, those things together, I think is a little
00:24:54
bit needed to make it feel a little bit more.
00:24:56
More grounded. Because if not, he's just gonna
00:24:59
turn this character into another, you know, airport,
00:25:04
Thriller novel. Yeah.
00:25:05
Main character. I think and keeping it grounded
00:25:08
is pretty important. Something else he had talked
00:25:11
about was that these books are on, he's done a two-book deal
00:25:15
every time. So this is the last book for
00:25:17
that for this third deal with with Simon & Schuster and he's
00:25:22
doing that non fiction series as well.
00:25:24
And that's going to be in every Year release for that series.
00:25:28
Which I think that books coming out next year?
00:25:30
This is first one for that series and I don't know if we're
00:25:33
going to see, I don't think we'll see an end to James Reese
00:25:37
anytime soon. But I think, James Reese might
00:25:40
be on an every two-year theme may be coming up and someone
00:25:45
else might be might be filling in either.
00:25:48
A rave Hastings or a Thomas Reese, you know, Vietnam era spy
00:25:53
Thriller a you breaking news right now.
00:25:55
Do you have Hi, I'm not breaking.
00:25:57
I'm not breaking shit Chris, I'm just okay so we never really
00:26:05
talked about anything fun like book release stuff but I do know
00:26:09
that that the non fiction series is tight as is scheduled for an
00:26:13
every two-year release which I'm looking forward to.
00:26:16
You know. I is it me as bad of me to say I
00:26:20
wouldn't mind that, you know, it's to take more time for these
00:26:23
novels sometimes I feel like maybe I'm the only one on this
00:26:26
island. And but, you know, we cover
00:26:28
we've been covering to book series now that have 21 books
00:26:31
and while I've enjoyed most of them, some of them.
00:26:34
I feel like could have spent a little more time in the oven.
00:26:36
And I understand that these these, you know, it's all
00:26:38
capitalism, right? So it's driven by book sale,
00:26:41
that's driven by, you know, and I hate saying maybe this is why
00:26:46
I'm yeah Kyle's getting out of the game because there's this
00:26:50
pressure, you expectation? You do one book and then
00:26:52
literally they take a week off and like they gotta you gotta
00:26:55
have the draft of the Next one and, you know, I guess the great
00:26:59
writers. Yeah.
00:27:00
I don't know. Name me one Series, where every
00:27:03
single book has hit my do not want, and in this in the genre.
00:27:09
No, but I would guarantee what you're saying.
00:27:13
It wouldn't be one where the book comes out every year.
00:27:16
Yeah. You're so it wouldn't, if it
00:27:19
were to happen, it can't be a book every year that goes, 15,
00:27:23
20 25, you know. That's I don't think it's a
00:27:27
recipe for success. With the art, it's a recipe for
00:27:29
money and profit but not for success, with an artist.
00:27:33
Because that's what an author is, you know, doing their craft.
00:27:36
You can wear more these authors that are doing three books a
00:27:39
year, you know, are three different series like I had and
00:27:43
yeah, he can he is able to produce them but you know, well,
00:27:46
there it is. I'm the closest I could think of
00:27:49
right now, from what I've read in the last year or two is
00:27:52
Andrews and Wilson and I think a big part of that is they didn't
00:27:57
have to come up with a tier one book every single year.
00:28:02
There's no way they can do them when they had the story to tell
00:28:05
and when it made sense and then they could work on Sons of
00:28:08
Aller. You know, we're not going to
00:28:09
write a Dempsey book this year or a couple of years, we're
00:28:12
going to write a sons of Valor book and there's only two and
00:28:14
they're amazing. The same thing with their
00:28:16
Shepherd series, I I kind of feel their Shepherd series is
00:28:21
getting so much steam. It might become that annual
00:28:23
release but I don't think we got three books.
00:28:27
I don't think they were back to back to back and if they were it
00:28:31
didn't feel like it wasn't this pressure of like you know their
00:28:34
book comes out every July breath or or their book comes out every
00:28:37
September. You know, Mitch wrap there
00:28:40
wasn't that pressure I and they're navigating a bunch of
00:28:43
things and now I think they're even getting into the Clancy
00:28:45
verse. So they have so much on their
00:28:48
plates but I think they've navigated that not in this
00:28:52
corporate. Here's your deadline, this Book
00:28:55
has to be at this time but more what artistically did they want
00:28:58
to work on and produce at that time?
00:29:01
And I hope they can keep that alive with how much shit they
00:29:04
have going on but I think you're right in saying the authors who
00:29:07
don't do this, formulaic model, get a deal publisher.
00:29:10
Says this date. You need this thing but instead
00:29:12
can write the stories they want to write, you get a better
00:29:15
product and and in the long run that better product is going to
00:29:18
make you more money because people like it more.
00:29:20
Yeah. Or so we hope I have I have a
00:29:23
feeling that that Jack has As a Thomas, restore, either semi
00:29:26
done or already done, and just is waiting for the right time to
00:29:30
let it, let it out. And I think this non fiction
00:29:32
series he said, was originally slated for a yearly release, and
00:29:35
then he started really digging in to the material with a
00:29:38
subject matter expert. And he's like, yeah, there's
00:29:40
this isn't going to happen every year.
00:29:41
So I think what they'll do is a nonfiction one.
00:29:47
Every other year James Reese one every other year and then mix in
00:29:52
of a Enough like one Rafe Hastings book, one Thomas, Reese
00:29:58
book. And then, you know, I don't see
00:30:01
those ones really becoming their own series but it's but
00:30:04
anything's possible. I mean those characters have
00:30:07
huge followings. Yeah.
00:30:10
And I I could see I would love, you know.
00:30:13
Now we know the pope was a bad guy.
00:30:14
We've seen his downfall but you know there's still a lot of meat
00:30:18
on the bones, his interactions with Tom you can you see where
00:30:21
the Betrayal is? You know you know obviously at
00:30:24
one Point they were somewhat friends and look at it, you
00:30:26
know, like you could, you could do a lot a lot with that.
00:30:30
So yeah. Correction and ruse Wilson did
00:30:34
come out with the shepherd series every year and Sons of
00:30:37
Valor in back-to-back years, but I mean, but that's two authors
00:30:40
there, two authors, right? So they're co-authors.
00:30:42
So they're doing something different.
00:30:44
So that right there breaks the mold.
00:30:45
Right, I think you're getting a better product because there
00:30:48
tag-teaming and breaking the mold, you know, they might be
00:30:51
able to come out with it every year, but they have some sort of
00:30:54
You know process that works differently than I think just
00:30:57
crank out the book deadline start, the next one, crank out
00:31:00
the book deadline publish start. The next one.
00:31:03
I want to see more authors break the mold, I've never read those
00:31:06
Series. So do you guys, do you guys feel
00:31:08
like when you read them, you can feel and sense.
00:31:11
When one of them is in charge of a chapter in another person's in
00:31:14
charge of another one like is it feel very continuous or does it
00:31:18
feel like a little choppy? They're so smooth.
00:31:21
And I've asked them this and every interview they do, they
00:31:23
taught they get a Tell us about the process of co-writing.
00:31:27
They have some magic. They got the secret sauce.
00:31:29
I don't know what it is, but their books just work.
00:31:33
They're just awesome dudes. Yeah it works.
00:31:35
I think you'd love both Tier 1 and Sons of Valor but I would
00:31:38
start with sons of Valor. Yeah, I have Tier 1.
00:31:41
Yeah, I have tier one. I'll grab sons of the sons of
00:31:43
Valor and throw it on my bookshelf.
00:31:45
I don't know if you've seen or not, what my bookshelf looks
00:31:47
like. But I have a lot of shit going
00:31:48
on on that thing. I think they the way they
00:31:53
explained it is like By the time it ends up, you know, because
00:31:56
they go back and forth so many times that he can't even, like,
00:31:59
parse, like who wrote which part of each sentence so that it just
00:32:03
becomes their their Cove ice, you know.
00:32:05
So that's awesome. I do, we want to give to the
00:32:08
scorecard guys. Let's do it.
00:32:10
That's what we're here for. Everything else was prologue.
00:32:15
Let's let's kick it off with some action.
00:32:18
Tyler you're our guest, give us your action score out of 10.
00:32:22
How do you think this one held up by?
00:32:24
It's a 10? Yes, sir!
00:32:26
Yes, it straight tense. If anyone didn't give it a 10 I
00:32:29
we would have them fighting words, you know.
00:32:32
All right. Then I guess the question is
00:32:34
which is your favorite action scene Honestly, I think the bank
00:32:39
and a trade after the bank for some reason, I really like in
00:32:43
the bank bathroom, you know, then he goes to use a copyright.
00:32:47
I just imagined in my head him walking across the street
00:32:50
jumping in the back of the SUV, way bit shaking.
00:32:54
Yes. And like someone else opens the
00:32:56
door and gets Dragged In and like the windows are just
00:32:58
getting sprayed with blood and it shaking again.
00:33:00
And like, another guy walking up to there and getting fucking
00:33:03
yanked in just this car just eating people because he's in
00:33:06
there. Just tearing it up.
00:33:08
Could you imagine like filming that scene where you have a
00:33:10
camera that's outside and you just you just see like the
00:33:14
movement and then you cut back to it like what's actually going
00:33:16
on inside and you cut back and looks like, you know, to have
00:33:18
that juxtaposition and you play with the sound like the grey man
00:33:22
is that where? When you're on the outside, the
00:33:24
song is reduced. The decibel level is so low and
00:33:27
then when you cut back inside it just bless you with the jarring
00:33:30
music. That'd be super cool.
00:33:35
What about you, Mike? What's your favorite action
00:33:37
scene? Well, we were talking about it
00:33:38
last time and so yeah. After I said the bank, we know
00:33:41
you said that the yacht and the nuke, you drove a hard bargain.
00:33:45
I thought your reasoning. There was so good.
00:33:47
I came around and I agreed with you, but when I first read it, I
00:33:51
would have said the sauna scene. So I think we're all taking a
00:33:54
different bent here when he improvises with the sauna Rock
00:33:57
in the towel. One of my, that was one of my
00:34:00
favorite improvised weapons he's ever used and he's had some good
00:34:03
ones. I see I was going to take you as
00:34:06
a as a zip tie gun to the nuts guy, you know?
00:34:10
Yeah. I think that was more
00:34:12
interrogation scene less. Yeah.
00:34:14
An action sequence. But yeah.
00:34:16
Yeah. And while it's a good one I
00:34:18
still think the I think the Savage Sun interrogation scene.
00:34:21
That's the one with the with the peppers I think right.
00:34:24
The power cedes. That's that's the best one based
00:34:27
on capsaicin. Yeah.
00:34:28
Which was also in Senator Thorns cabin.
00:34:31
That was a different cabin. Yep.
00:34:33
But he does the same thing. Here on that ranch in Upstate
00:34:35
New York, actually Ashokan. Yeah, we actually went there on
00:34:38
a few Boy Scout Troops. And I was thinking, man if if
00:34:41
when we were camping and James Reese was doing that like a
00:34:45
couple hundred yards away in the woods that mean nasty.
00:34:49
That's funny. Well, plot, what do you think
00:34:51
about the plot? How did it develop and this one
00:34:54
also gets 10 points. So Tyler, what do you say?
00:34:58
I think mainly because of the Thomas res connections, you
00:35:02
know, him finally unraveling His father's breadcrumbs
00:35:07
essentially, I'm going to I give it like an eight.
00:35:13
I think I think like the gravity of finally getting rid of these
00:35:16
Cliffhangers from the the last couple novels is a huge payoff
00:35:20
and done really well. But I think the only thing
00:35:23
holding up is maybe the bad guys.
00:35:26
I was going to go higher than that.
00:35:27
I was going to go for a 9 in the one point.
00:35:30
I'm digging for it is is you know some of those chapters I
00:35:33
might get referenced where especially in the beginning we
00:35:37
were getting a lot from like the Russians point of view like the
00:35:40
them pretty much just telling us their entire you know what they
00:35:43
were going to do. There's no mystery to their
00:35:45
monologue but I liked when they cut to we never like I guess we
00:35:51
found out that the guy died but you know like the truck driver
00:35:54
who drove The Iranian, you know, across the border and and Iran
00:35:59
took it back. Like you could have just had
00:36:02
like those kind of things and forced us to kind of piece it
00:36:05
together a little bit. And then like, you know, that
00:36:08
some of the stuff that he is interactions with literally
00:36:11
literally break down what, what the Russians were doing with Dan
00:36:15
Reb and and Rafe. But besides that, I, you know, I
00:36:19
like the payoffs, I like the time re stuff.
00:36:21
I liked, you know, the scenes in the prison, you know, I liked
00:36:25
T', the PO and you know, like flash forward and with with the
00:36:29
stoker termites tow character. So, yeah, I gotta give it a 9.
00:36:34
I think I'm going to settle right in between you two fellas,
00:36:36
then with an eight and a half. I originally was going to go as
00:36:41
high as a nine. I think the way you develop Po
00:36:45
and stow and brought up brought in Tom Reiss like you're saying
00:36:48
Tyler was perfect really well done.
00:36:51
The exposition I gotta say it was just a little unbalanced.
00:36:56
It took you out of the plot at times, mainly the economics
00:37:00
lesson, you know? Let's yeah, table that at this
00:37:02
point. But yeah, we said, we need to be
00:37:04
said there, but just a couple other pieces of exposition.
00:37:07
I know, I agree with you guys. I love the The faction.
00:37:11
What's real? What's not?
00:37:12
The historical tie-ins? I'm a big fan of that but I
00:37:15
think how and when they were placed just could have used some
00:37:20
tweaking. So I'm going to go eight and a
00:37:22
half though. I could bump that up to a nine
00:37:26
with some convincing so I'm right there.
00:37:28
I'm on the cusp. I think, other than the German
00:37:32
and po which we know we don't obviously known till till the
00:37:35
reveal. I really think the bad guys are
00:37:37
kind of weak. I mean we have the one-eyed.
00:37:40
The one-eyed guy. That's continuous bad guy for a
00:37:42
little bit, but I really like the German wish.
00:37:44
There was actually maybe a little bit more with him.
00:37:47
I could have seen the Russians coming after him and then him
00:37:50
trying to maybe help James or have James save his ass, because
00:37:54
he can see what he can do. But I like, I like the German
00:37:57
character. I hope I hope he makes a
00:37:58
reappearance later on down the road, which I think he will.
00:38:01
So I think you will. Yeah, Ray van lier.
00:38:04
Yeah, I think I saw him. You remind me you have not read
00:38:09
the mid trap series. I'm not.
00:38:11
Yeah. So he there's one character, his
00:38:14
name's Grisha and he's like, originally an owl originally,
00:38:17
iPhone becomes an ally as I see him, I could see this guy
00:38:21
potentially becoming something like that.
00:38:23
Yeah, really intrigued by him but you know besides him I
00:38:27
guess, you know, we have the two bumbling idiots, the Russians,
00:38:30
you know, trying to, you know, with Putin and and there I is
00:38:35
it. Putin to say Putin or levels the
00:38:37
other sounds that the president Russian president.
00:38:39
Yeah. And then, you know, we have like
00:38:44
the other, you know, the Russian mafia, but none of them like
00:38:46
really stood out that much so I wanted love is a 3.
00:38:49
So the bad guys are out of five. So I yeah, I brought it down as
00:38:54
well for those reasons, Dash cough and Levitsky the way their
00:38:59
Feud and their battle and jockeying for power in the Inner
00:39:03
Circle, are those are really neat idea, but it wasn't
00:39:08
developed. It was almost half baths.
00:39:10
Every time he was killed off, can't off-book right?
00:39:13
Essentially we get a, we get a line that he was shot in a park
00:39:16
and he also just kept screwing up.
00:39:18
He like yeah, never did anything, right?
00:39:20
Where I would expect Spect. He's gonna, he's gonna one-up
00:39:23
Dash cough and where he's going to have more influence.
00:39:27
I guess Levitsky. I just thought could have been a
00:39:29
little more intimidating. He got whacked like some bum
00:39:32
with no one name tag on just shot in the Park.
00:39:36
Yeah, very rushing thing though, but yeah.
00:39:40
I yeah. So I went three and a half there
00:39:42
on the bad, guys. What did you say?
00:39:44
Your score was there. Tyler?
00:39:46
Probably three four bad guys. I think they think they might be
00:39:49
the weakest part of the, of the book.
00:39:51
I think. Maybe a flake.
00:39:51
We just had one more good recurring bad guy, that was
00:39:55
either either mentally or physically on James's level, you
00:40:00
know, in other novels, we either have one that's mentally on the
00:40:03
same level or physically on the same level.
00:40:05
You know, they're never wrapped up in the same person.
00:40:07
That's why he's he's like the best of both worlds.
00:40:10
And I think if we had somebody like that, I think the German
00:40:13
was mentally or strategically on that level, you know, for
00:40:16
strategy or, you know, history or combat.
00:40:20
But he wasn't there long enough. Yeah, he waited on the corner,
00:40:23
and watched his watched, his his, his Russian out.
00:40:27
He's gets laid. Like in these are Catan, someone
00:40:31
like that, play that? Yeah.
00:40:33
Yeah, we also follow at one point that Wagner group acolyte,
00:40:39
you know who's right? Through the ranks.
00:40:40
Like we get his backstory to about his mom was a prostitute
00:40:44
and yeah and the reason he like is what he is because he killed
00:40:47
like some guy was beating his mom.
00:40:49
And like, I felt like he was going to become like, you know,
00:40:51
this adversary and then but then they also bring in the leader of
00:40:55
the Wagner group and he's like this was to be the scary guy.
00:40:57
Honestly maybe maybe you could argue there was too many bad
00:41:00
like too many villains in here. Not enough, death or
00:41:04
interactions into one of them. I will say the kills where he's
00:41:09
like, For once he hooks up with the Israelis and goes to take,
00:41:13
that takes out Dash clave and the vibrant group guy with the
00:41:17
car, those are pretty cool. But yeah.
00:41:19
Yes, it's a little too much bloat.
00:41:21
That's right. You have a car chase.
00:41:22
Tyler, you're a car guy. What do you think of that?
00:41:25
I thought it was awesome. It was pretty pretty well, well
00:41:27
written, I like the most, you know, the motorcycle guys as
00:41:30
well there at the bank. You know, he comes out and see
00:41:33
doesn't see the bikes and thinks that they're circling basically.
00:41:36
And I also like the Germans Bluff, you know, he doesn't have
00:41:38
anybody yet. After Katie or Rafe really, you
00:41:42
know I don't know that adds something to his character a
00:41:44
little bit likable that he was able to Bluff his way out of
00:41:47
that and that James does not have a poker face and that he
00:41:50
totally bought into it. Right?
00:41:53
You know I also really love the scene at the banquet he gets the
00:41:56
Stiletto knife and puts it to work so no from his dad.
00:42:02
Yeah that's right. That's right.
00:42:04
Yeah, I guess maybe this can go to buy in perhaps next will also
00:42:09
will get Good guys. I think we're on by in here and
00:42:13
things like the package. He actually finds the package
00:42:16
from his father. He opens it up.
00:42:19
Did you feel that paid off? Did that satisfy you when he's
00:42:23
going through these weapons? The old knife, couple other
00:42:26
things from his early CIA days and the letter, do you did all
00:42:32
that pay off for you because it's been building so much.
00:42:34
Yeah, I think I think it did the letter and the knife and there's
00:42:39
an axe in. Are an old Tomahawk from
00:42:41
Vietnam. I think those items
00:42:43
specifically. But actually, the item that the
00:42:45
actual main story is about the list.
00:42:48
I really think if it was just the list, I think it may not
00:42:52
have paid off as well and I do like that Thomas had a list just
00:42:57
like James had, you know, it just gives them something else
00:42:59
in common, right. I I know that's kind of like the
00:43:03
theme of like a couple of couples of books obviously, but
00:43:05
I really like that and you know, he's going to he's going to
00:43:08
finish his dad's list, basically.
00:43:10
You know, so we'll see if that comes to fruition in the next in
00:43:12
the next novel at all. But I really liked that his,
00:43:16
he's all about ancient forms of combat and his dad hands them, a
00:43:20
couple of tools from ancient forms of combat.
00:43:22
And he he, you know, they're really helpful that like the
00:43:26
perfect time. So, how about this one?
00:43:29
The fact that everything he was doing to one compile that list
00:43:34
and to Track down the pows and the stories of the pows to, you
00:43:40
know, to hopefully get Justice for what we did by abandoning
00:43:43
them. Did you feel that having po
00:43:47
playing Tom Reiss? Was was a good payoff.
00:43:51
The fact that Poe was essentially distracting him with
00:43:53
that to keep him from doing his research on the collective and
00:43:57
in getting the links to the collective, did you buy that
00:44:00
whole piece? That's subterfuge there?
00:44:02
Yeah, I do. Because, you know, it he even
00:44:05
says at the end, you know, I kept Thomas Reese busy with for
00:44:08
20 years with that it weren't while it kept him busy, for 20
00:44:12
years, it wasn't for nothing. I think that you'll learn And
00:44:15
some more things about Thomas reefs and you'll see that
00:44:20
there's been some extreme success out of that Venture and
00:44:24
I think that that led to him compiling this list.
00:44:26
So while he was still doing research on the collective
00:44:30
publicly and depose eyes, you know, I think he was he was
00:44:34
doing the poww thing which po thinks he distracted him with
00:44:38
that. But I think really that's gonna
00:44:40
going to lead somewhere else to where it kind of did A Min
00:44:43
actually. So II while like I said, I don't
00:44:46
like, I like whenever characters are step ahead, so Thomas does
00:44:51
not seem like the type of person that can be fooled by by Poe
00:44:55
while they share friendship. I think he may have been a
00:44:58
little bit weary so I'm had an Ace in the Hole again SPO, I'm
00:45:03
hoping. So see, I like to see characters
00:45:06
succeed but not too easily like that and we'll see find the long
00:45:12
game tree. So what does that mean for
00:45:14
buying score at Five, we talked action.
00:45:16
We talked to plot, we talked about these villains.
00:45:18
The Tom re-stuff overall. How bought in were you to this
00:45:21
book? Start to finish out of 5.
00:45:23
Yep, I'm going to say for I think bad guys is the only thing
00:45:28
holding back setting action like description, you know, as far as
00:45:33
like describing the action and stuff for me is like the gold
00:45:36
ticket for this book, really? You know, like I said, it's so
00:45:38
polished dialogue was great. You know, carry all the
00:45:42
characters that we already know is, are there that the new has
00:45:45
that get introduced or well enough described in a, you know,
00:45:48
other than the the economics lesson, they're described in a
00:45:52
short enough amount of time and make sense.
00:45:54
You know, there was, what was that in the, in the blood?
00:45:57
There was no, no, I'm sorry, I devil's hand.
00:45:59
I think there was a character that gets introduced and like
00:46:02
the third quarter and they, he like just throws all the
00:46:07
information for this mole at you and one chapter and like, right
00:46:12
had not heard about him prior. I think that this was a lot more
00:46:17
sprinkled throughout nicely rather than just like lopping
00:46:20
everything at you. For this one mole and the
00:46:22
prologue establishes that you in the poems do stuff.
00:46:26
Yeah, I agree. So what I'm hearing is you're
00:46:29
going five on the good guys, then come on.
00:46:30
It's Gotta Be, we got to. Yeah we got real.
00:46:32
We got Dan rub. We got Vic a little bit of
00:46:35
Alice, like you gonna live? Yeah, but 54 good guys I think
00:46:39
for sure. I think we're on the same page.
00:46:41
If we, if we think back as good as this is like for me Savage.
00:46:45
Savage sun is still number one and I think it's because the bad
00:46:48
guys in Savage. Sooners are so great.
00:46:52
Yeah you know and the bad guys are great in terminal is too and
00:46:56
I really think they're built around these ways that the Jack
00:46:59
wanted to kill them off which I know Chris you had talked about
00:47:02
before but the bad guys in Savage sooner so good.
00:47:05
I think if we have like another batch of bad guys that are
00:47:08
memorable and are driven and have that kind of dialogue and
00:47:11
feel like real people rather than A couple of older guys that
00:47:17
are in the hierarchy fighting over power, I think it might,
00:47:21
you know, have upped it a little bit, we just needed a couple of
00:47:24
them a couple guys, like the German that were a little bit
00:47:26
more bad than how the German was.
00:47:28
I think or tweak, some of the, the Russian, the dash cam and
00:47:32
the Levites. Yeah.
00:47:33
Plotline, you know, maybe had a little more scenes with Levitsky
00:47:36
by himself than just always from Dash cos point of view.
00:47:40
So you know you mentioned setting.
00:47:42
I think I think this book is pretty strong and said I think
00:47:44
we go to places. We get a lot of good
00:47:45
descriptions you know nothing feels out of place.
00:47:49
Everything like has its you know meaning so II said a 4.5.
00:47:54
I don't mean I don't know what I can give it a 5 to.
00:47:57
I don't know why. I oh I really have anything to
00:48:01
Super nitpick about about it. I guess, one thing with by in I
00:48:06
gave it a 4 and a half. One thing I was like holding A
00:48:09
up on is just very not holding about one thing I have boosted
00:48:13
is that I actually believe, you know, the motivations behind
00:48:17
sort of the all the Expedition we got we got from the Russian
00:48:20
point of view. I believed it I believe like why
00:48:22
they would be doing certain things.
00:48:23
Why they would want to start this war with Israel and Iran
00:48:27
stuff like that. Yeah, it would draw, you know,
00:48:28
something Ukraine. Yeah.
00:48:29
Yeah. And then and then allow like
00:48:31
China to go after Taiwan a Creek, Casino Global new axis
00:48:36
and adverse allies. So, you know, the just The root
00:48:40
story of the plot of what is trying to be stopped.
00:48:44
I was 100% bought in on that too.
00:48:45
So yeah that's why I went four and a half as well.
00:48:49
I kind of forgot about that stuff but when it's being
00:48:51
explained to you you're so into it it's like I'm reading it, you
00:48:55
know some geopolitics magazine or you know or blog post by
00:48:58
someone who knows what the hell they're talking about.
00:49:01
So I love those scenes when they're happening there.
00:49:03
Little less memorable when you get to the action you kind of
00:49:06
forget that that was all built up as the backdrop.
00:49:08
But right. Right.
00:49:09
Yeah, it's still there and it's still really good as you're
00:49:12
reading it. Four and a half for buying on me
00:49:14
too. I guess that just leaves the
00:49:16
setting at the cover and the free space setting.
00:49:20
You said you liked it. Tyler, what are you going to
00:49:22
actually give it out of five? I'll give it five.
00:49:25
I really like all the all the set pieces, all of the, all the
00:49:30
action pieces are great. You know, the three big ones we
00:49:32
talked about, and even the non-action pieces, you know, the
00:49:36
hotel after he gets out, even though it's pitch-black him in
00:49:40
solitary confinement is interesting and not like, super
00:49:43
boring. Because of the dialogue,
00:49:44
especially when reporters reading it.
00:49:46
We go a lot of places like that. Are ya?
00:49:48
Ali, we go everywhere. I believe pose places in
00:49:51
Colorado, that place stand up really stands out to me like the
00:49:54
bank fight, and then pose place like how its described just
00:49:58
being like a cabin at the safe house, in the middle of the
00:50:00
woods and some where he spent some of his childhood, you know,
00:50:04
a lot of the background details of him and Thomas being there,
00:50:06
stood out to me. I really like pose place with
00:50:09
it. You know, the two dogs and
00:50:10
stuff. Yeah, we go.
00:50:12
A lot of places, the yacht's Great.
00:50:13
The sauna. Yeah, they like you're moving
00:50:15
through sauna. Yeah.
00:50:16
Sauna is changing room into the sauna.
00:50:19
Absolutely. The description of like that
00:50:23
Russian. What was the secret City?
00:50:26
Like the depiction of that like the description of that the
00:50:29
description of like Martha's Vineyard back in the day like in
00:50:32
the a prologue like he's every place we go, it felt tactile.
00:50:38
It felt real. Yeah.
00:50:39
Even in in d.c. the stuff in d.c. at the end and epilogue is
00:50:44
pretty awesome too. Yeah right.
00:50:46
Yeah I I think you convinced me the five.
00:50:49
I'm going to give it half a point.
00:50:50
I went four and a half hour. I'm going to the 5.
00:50:53
Mike is so easy to persuade. You have his when you make you
00:50:56
know like man I'm gonna listen will you tell the truth when you
00:51:00
speak truth? I'm going to listen to it.
00:51:03
You guys want to do your free space, give us your winner, and
00:51:05
then we can wrap up with some cover talk.
00:51:07
What do you think? Fair enough, he talked to cover.
00:51:11
We talked to cover a little bit so you want to just say your
00:51:13
score because we already broke it down earlier.
00:51:16
Yeah. So I'm gonna get style is given
00:51:18
25 and I'm given an I'm gonna four and a half, you know, it's
00:51:20
still got that little bit of romantic Vibe but it's higher
00:51:23
than I initially gave it, you know, it's way higher than I
00:51:25
initially was thinking because of how much I appreciate the
00:51:29
boat seen, how much I love the boat scene and the fact that it
00:51:32
takes center stage and the tomahawk, you know, like
00:51:35
especially is that that's his that his dad's tomahawk That the
00:51:38
older one. Is that a new Tomahawk?
00:51:40
I mean that that one is it looks how James's looks in every book.
00:51:46
But what's really cool is on the, on the hardback, I have one
00:51:50
of those tomahawks from Daniel Winkler that I had made for me
00:51:53
last year and if I set mine on top it's one-to-one to see
00:51:56
actual size. That's pretty cool.
00:51:57
It's one-to-one scale, that's so yeah.
00:52:01
I'm going to, I'm going to pick a, I don't want to really go too
00:52:06
heavy into this. I Love cover a, which is what
00:52:09
we're calling the standard US release cover, B and C, which
00:52:14
you can't see here, Tyler, but if you just Google up the
00:52:17
international versions, yes, that's what I'm given a four and
00:52:19
a half because the other covers are pretty pretty crappy.
00:52:22
I went down to four on it because one of them has the
00:52:25
Kremlin all I Glitz and glamour. It almost looks like Disney
00:52:28
World Kremlin style, I'm like, or st.
00:52:32
I'm like not enough of this book happens in Moscow and red
00:52:35
square. Why would you highlight the
00:52:38
Levitsky Dash cough stuff over some other scenes?
00:52:42
Like I'd much rather, that be the yacht as it is in the US
00:52:45
version, you know, or even the sauna or the Speakeasy, New
00:52:49
York, something else, besides the Russian plot line to put on
00:52:53
your cover and uncover see which I don't even know which one this
00:52:57
is maybe the Australian release. I think I actually saw Our
00:53:01
buddy, David shout out to David Thriller fan.
00:53:04
I think I saw him publish a car or post a copy of this one from
00:53:08
Down Under. I don't get the tunnel.
00:53:10
I don't know. Yeah I mean and we got a running
00:53:12
man. I don't like BNC having the
00:53:14
silhouette it almost looks like they're just floating like, you
00:53:18
know, you just copy and pasted some silhouette like Ryan
00:53:21
sticks. You know, logo for the real
00:53:23
books by and you just copy and paste it up into these
00:53:26
cartoonish looking. Disneyland scenes of a tunnel
00:53:29
and a castle. Yeah.
00:53:31
I'm going to put them in the chat for you.
00:53:32
Yeah, I'm looking at them right now actually.
00:53:35
Okay. But Yeah, I don't get the tunnel
00:53:40
and I see what you're saying by the Disney stuff, you know, I
00:53:43
think the US Standard releases is pretty good.
00:53:47
I'd give it a five, I'd give it a five of it was just that one.
00:53:51
Yeah. I would love to know what goes
00:53:53
into people's minds into like why they need to bit have three
00:53:58
different covers for a brand new book.
00:54:00
I understand like when you reissue something, you know, you
00:54:02
want to freshen it up, you know, to have a new tank for your
00:54:05
trade trade paperback, that makes eggs.
00:54:07
The UK version of every one of these novels has like this,
00:54:11
this, like cut and paste thing, and I don't know, maybe, maybe
00:54:15
must be, like, whoever they distribute the book with over
00:54:18
there. That's, that's how it works.
00:54:19
But they usually suck. I'm just gonna be honest, the UK
00:54:21
releases of most Thrillers are really weekly weak link.
00:54:28
All right. What you got to get to the
00:54:29
winners on our guests. Our Guest goes first winners for
00:54:33
me is Thomas. Reese is number one for sure.
00:54:36
Yes, sir. Because for sure, just getting a
00:54:39
lot of his, his background and things that he worked on his
00:54:44
career and you get some payoffs. And while I still feel like
00:54:48
there's some Cliffhangers in this, it really it close the
00:54:52
book on like stuff you've been wanting to know but also like
00:54:55
that that you actually just finished the chapter For Thomas
00:54:59
Reese. I think that you still gotta
00:55:01
whole book to go for for him and his history and stuff.
00:55:04
So he's the winner for, for me for this one.
00:55:07
As a good one. I think we could all have put
00:55:09
that one. I'll slightly shifted a little
00:55:11
bit. I'm gonna do learning how to
00:55:14
trade options and derivatives, on the stock market, never mind.
00:55:18
No, I'm going to say the prologue and chapter one, that
00:55:23
just set the stage for me to that.
00:55:26
This book was going to be a banger.
00:55:28
You know, and because it had Tom Reiss early on, I love The
00:55:32
Stoke, Eric ters and the scene on the dock.
00:55:35
And if that prologue was just a one-off and we didn't hear
00:55:38
anything else about, you know, Newport and the dock And how
00:55:43
they were shot. I would have been fine but the
00:55:45
fact that we later come back to it and hear Tom resaved, Martha
00:55:49
Stowe. Yeah.
00:55:50
And she hasn't exactly shot the Assassin.
00:55:54
Long-range a long-range. Yeah, with a pistol.
00:55:58
I just thought the way that was handled was top-notch.
00:56:02
That's up there with, like leg Caray stuff.
00:56:05
And some of the great to me if you can isolate that those parts
00:56:10
of the writing in this book, your Your world-class novelist
00:56:14
in that. So I think Po and Stow the
00:56:17
opening scene and even combining that with Jim Reese, James Reese
00:56:20
in prison. I would, I would give the shout
00:56:22
out to Ray Porter there as well. The fact that Ray Porter Nails
00:56:26
prologue into chapter 1 is just a phenomenal firecracker of a
00:56:30
start to this book. I remember everyone has got to
00:56:33
be truth. Truth the consequence for the
00:56:36
gods. No.
00:56:37
I so obviously the real winner is the action in this novel and
00:56:42
you got I think I got to give it to Jack car like in his writing
00:56:45
and how great You know, going from each of, you know, you had
00:56:50
one in each quarter of the book these very impactful and like we
00:56:55
at the end he mentions Rambo and his inspiration for that.
00:56:58
And I like saw that come through in the writing and you know, did
00:57:02
the various action scenes and how we progressed along and just
00:57:05
the creativity and use of weapons use of take out.
00:57:11
I feel like whenever we were reading the action, it almost
00:57:13
felt like the book was slowing down and so like you were sort
00:57:17
of Instead of, but at the same time like their actions are
00:57:21
actually going really fast like that that makes any sense but I
00:57:26
don't know. I dragged you to great job in
00:57:29
this novel I gotta get a bris so Okay guys, that is good stuff.
00:57:35
We are pretty much on par with our final scores here.
00:57:40
Chris and I both ending up at 45 and a half.
00:57:44
Tyler, coming in at an even 45. Those are some solid scores on
00:57:51
the Thriller pod scorecard, which leads me to ask, where
00:57:56
does this fall? We've got six James Reese books
00:57:59
by Jack car. How does it line up, Tyler?
00:58:02
We know you love Savage, Sun. Let me, let me just remind what
00:58:06
Tyler said last time when we did in the blood, right?
00:58:09
We do we know we did this after Devil's hands.
00:58:12
You had read them out of order last time.
00:58:13
Yeah, we do matter what are so Savage?
00:58:15
Sun you had Savage Sun one terminal list in the blood True
00:58:20
Believer dolls hands. We all, by the way we all had
00:58:22
Devil's hands last. Yeah, so this is like squeezing
00:58:26
in the three, the the number three spot for me.
00:58:28
Whoo. Okay.
00:58:30
Everything that was three and under gets knocked down.
00:58:32
This is going number three. That's solid.
00:58:35
That's pretty high. Chris, what are you saying here?
00:58:40
This is going number two. Oh shit.
00:58:44
Yeah, do I love this book? It's it's Savage.
00:58:48
Son. Only The Dead True Believer for
00:58:51
journalists in the blood. I said it right order Savage Sun
00:58:55
Only The Dead True Believer terminal list in the blood tells
00:58:58
him terminal list stole my number two.
00:59:01
Mainly because of the impact it had on me.
00:59:02
The first time I read it, I wish I could read that book again for
00:59:05
the first time, right? Yeah.
00:59:07
Right. I'm definitely the outlier here
00:59:10
and not that I not that I didn't love terminal list but like I
00:59:13
just for some reason, I've appreciated the other three
00:59:17
more, I guess. Yeah.
00:59:20
I think you also read it later than us.
00:59:24
When we where at least I read it.
00:59:26
None of the other ones were out. I feel like by the time you
00:59:29
would read it you were able to then quickly jump into True
00:59:32
Believer. Sure.
00:59:33
Yeah, and Savage Sun, you could almost read them.
00:59:35
One, two, three. Yeah, I think he Marathon read
00:59:38
those like right in a row from what I recall.
00:59:40
Yeah, yeah, I did. And then I jumped ahead to after
00:59:43
Savage, Sun. I jumped ahead to in the blood
00:59:45
and then I had to go back and read the worst one.
00:59:48
Yeah, the worst one. Yeah.
00:59:49
But that Makes complete sense. I think of why terminal is fell
00:59:52
down your chart a little bit to fourth place.
00:59:55
Now, I think because you just jumped into the others and we're
00:59:58
like, damn, you know, those were so good.
01:00:01
You must forget terminal is where Tyler?
01:00:03
I think you and I had a similar experience that books at with
01:00:06
me. Yeah, it moved me.
01:00:08
It really did something where I was like, this is a game changer
01:00:11
in the Thriller verse and told me Jack car is going to be a big
01:00:15
name moving forward, and I don't know if Chris you had time to
01:00:19
sit with that and Cooked and stood for you, you just you
01:00:21
jumped right in. I think I had the first three
01:00:24
books, all the same time. Like I got in the series
01:00:27
whenever Savage sun came out and I think I read terminal is twice
01:00:30
before I jumped into True Believer.
01:00:32
Mmm. Yeah.
01:00:35
Well terminal is still Takes the Cake for me.
01:00:36
It's in the one spot. I'm sorry to do Savage Sun dirty
01:00:40
like that but this might be controversial.
01:00:44
I'm keeping crew believer in the second spot. the Africa stuff
01:00:51
and the Hasting stuff to me is still Sookie with Uncle Hastings
01:00:58
over there, in Mozambique And this is a hard call because only
01:01:04
the Dead. Is probably in a dead heat with
01:01:09
Savage Sun like literally wearing game, seven overtime,
01:01:15
triple overtime in Game 7. It's that tight, but I'm gonna
01:01:20
give it to Only The Dead. I love this book, third spot.
01:01:24
Bumping Savage sun, down to the four spot in the blood.
01:01:28
Devil's Hand rounding out the top six guys.
01:01:31
This book made top two and three for all of us Jack are Our fans
01:01:37
and this one's in the top half of his best books, that is
01:01:40
incredible. Yeah, for saying something
01:01:42
that's definitely saying something.
01:01:44
I'm interested to talk to other people and see if we're where
01:01:47
they are liars or this is truly as good as we think it is.
01:01:50
Because I think it's great. I think it's amazing, I've seen
01:01:53
everything I've seen one person post that this was their least
01:01:56
favorite book and they kept harping on the exposition.
01:01:59
There's way too much Exposition being told to you.
01:02:03
And they're right in some regard but it doesn't take away from
01:02:06
all the other amazing things that I don't agree with that.
01:02:10
Take Yeah, for me, it's awesome. Love it.
01:02:14
All right, well, thanks for coming on.
01:02:17
Tyler, will have we got to have you on?
01:02:19
Before I whole year from now, you know, we when is the one is
01:02:23
the Amazon series coming. So the Ben Edwards show should
01:02:26
come out. That's the spin-off show.
01:02:28
It should come out next year and then the year after will be
01:02:31
season 2 of terminal list. Oh, we have to wait, like two
01:02:33
more years with. Yeah, so they haven't revealed
01:02:37
the title of the Ben Edwards show yet, but they have four of
01:02:41
six episodes in the They can which Chris Pratt's into of.
01:02:45
And then once that is wrapped up, they he said right now it's
01:02:49
on hold because of the writers, strike, writers strike, all
01:02:52
right, until until that's done. Then they're going to, you know,
01:02:55
finish that up. But he said it's looking pretty
01:02:57
good. It's more of like a
01:02:58
globe-trotting Espionage Thriller instead of like an
01:03:01
action or Revenge thriller. So looking forward to that.
01:03:04
I like Taylor, I like Taylor kitchen.
01:03:06
I think Ben Edwards is one character who was better on
01:03:09
screen than in the book. So I'm Either given him a
01:03:12
spin-off. I like Taylor Kitsch a lot.
01:03:14
So yeah, definitely looking forward to that we're going to
01:03:17
have you back on for all of it. We definitely definitely will
01:03:20
and maybe even down the road Jack's non-fiction book.
01:03:23
CFR returners would be into that, but I'd love to read it
01:03:26
and talk about it. Yep, I am, um, actually I have
01:03:30
two books. I've in the pipe right now is
01:03:32
the Spy, the came in from the cold and once an eagle right
01:03:35
now, it's on my shelf, I got to read it once an eagle which that
01:03:38
book is ridiculous. It is super big Yeah I know you
01:03:43
and of course Jack or always talking about that one but when
01:03:46
you do Spike The Spy Who Came in from the cold definitely would
01:03:49
love to chat about that one. I'm a big liquor a fan.
01:03:53
Sure thing Mike before you go I'm about to hit play on
01:04:00
Saturday Sunday. June. 4th at 12 p.m. in.
01:04:05
Where is this place in New Jersey?
01:04:07
It's like Northvale, New Jersey 30 bucks.
01:04:12
Good old Jack car, meet and greet.
01:04:14
That's that's what I do. That's what I did.
01:04:16
That is a jersey. Get a signed copy of the book.
01:04:19
Yeah 30 bucks. Get you a signed copy.
01:04:20
Yeah, it's two hours away. It's worth going to Cleveland
01:04:29
from Pittsburgh. I was thinking of it someone was
01:04:32
giving him some stick online or David.
01:04:34
Some stick about getting more. I think it was Mark actually our
01:04:37
Patron. More East Coast events on the
01:04:39
tour and David's, like we got a new jersey and like it's such a
01:04:42
small slice of the East Coast. We need another one.
01:04:46
But dude, you should do it. I can't join you unfortunately.
01:04:49
But dude, pull that trigger and do it.
01:04:52
Yeah, Chris Chris, it's worth going to.
01:04:53
And if you wait in the picture line he'll give you a, he'll
01:04:57
give you a couple minutes of his time to bullshit about whatever
01:04:59
you want to do. So better bring him.
01:05:02
Some Thriller potstickers though.
01:05:03
If you do guy I tell you that Bloody I have floody buddy.
01:05:08
All right, thanks Tyler. This is your real problem, guys,
01:05:12
thanks for having me on as always appreciate it.
01:05:17
All right, we got to thank our patrons are special operator,
01:05:20
Sherry up, our special agents Darryl, Kevin George Matt Dawn.
01:05:24
Dennis piggy, Catherine Ray Bridget Jeff and mark.
01:05:27
Thank you always to Tyler for coming on.
01:05:28
Always love when he's honest, a nice nice conversation with him.
01:05:31
Please subscribe rate and review using your favorite podcast
01:05:34
platform. You can find this at the other
01:05:36
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01:05:41
There's always time is ticking