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00:00:15
Hey guys. I'm Chris and I'm cranky Mike
00:00:20
and welcome back to this week's No Limits.
00:00:23
The Thriller podcast. What's up your bum this week?
00:00:26
Mike Well I had a great time recording with you and Tyler
00:00:32
Boer great friend. Great friend of the Pod, it's
00:00:36
always a blast. But unfortunately this week's
00:00:39
content isn't sitting all that. Well with me, it's not my
00:00:42
favorite book in the series. So I hate to be able to come off
00:00:46
as a little crusty about the devil's hand, but every once in
00:00:49
a while, there's one that's just not your favorite and so you
00:00:52
guys got a bear with me today and some of my critiques Yeah, I
00:00:57
mean, every series is going to have one where people don't buy
00:00:59
with it, and this just happens to be your one.
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I mean again I didn't you know, see at the end of the novel, not
00:01:05
to spoil it, but you know, wasn't my favorite but, you
00:01:08
know, you gotta you gotta find the things that you liked in, it
00:01:11
talk about those and then again we really, really didn't like
00:01:17
this book. We would just wouldn't wouldn't
00:01:18
ever covered it, right? So it's not that bad, you know,
00:01:23
I read worse books. So but and our score In the end,
00:01:26
were not all that bad. We found the hot little
00:01:29
highlights, the positives and we shouted them out.
00:01:31
So yeah, you're right, you're right?
00:01:35
And I will say that one thing that was not - was, we had an
00:01:40
awesome conversation with Tyler. Always a pleasure to have him on
00:01:44
the Pod to discuss all things Jack car.
00:01:47
So he's become a resident. Jack, our specialist gun
00:01:51
specialist car specialist. So love to have them on that.
00:01:56
We have to have him back for only the Dead.
00:02:02
Hey guys, welcome back to No Limits.
00:02:05
The Thriller podcast and we are joined Again by Tyler Brewer, we
00:02:10
might as well just call it the Jack car podcast at this point.
00:02:13
What do you think works for me? Anytime we do some jack car
00:02:17
content. I'm in what, we'll call it no
00:02:20
limits featuring, Tyler Brewer, will have our own special
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little. Michael had to make a little
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image for it. Yeah, maybe put your face right
00:02:30
in the middle and in between the Josh.
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Yeah sure I'm down. It's fine.
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I mean what is this the third series?
00:02:37
We've covered in full on the Pod because we got Mitch rap Chris
00:02:41
howdy and the Haley chill books. I think this is the third one.
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We're going to have done in full until only the dead until yeah.
00:02:51
Actually Tyler, let's get your take on that.
00:02:53
You were one of the first to share with me.
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The only the dead cover. What you think about that drop?
00:02:58
I have Miss, I have mixed feelings.
00:03:00
I like the themes that they have been going with up to that one.
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Okay, if you look at the cover for that, I don't know.
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I've heard mixed things that like I kind of agree with both
00:03:10
ways where it, it kind of gives you, it makes makes me.
00:03:15
I wonder what's going to happen in the book because I don't
00:03:17
think we've other than terminal list.
00:03:19
We really haven't had a boat Centric story at all with that's
00:03:23
related to the water. So I'm very curious of the why
00:03:25
there's a gigantic yacht on the cover and then also super
00:03:28
curious why the Winkler is in the water.
00:03:31
Yes. And it's just much more colorful
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than the than the two color choices of like the rest of the
00:03:38
covers but I kind of like one through five covers and how
00:03:42
abstract they are. You know Savage son's, the
00:03:46
coolest one, I think for hardback like the original
00:03:48
covers, just it's like that Lawns, yellow and black but
00:03:52
yeah, it's definitely different. I heard a couple people say, it
00:03:55
looks like a romance novel cover.
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I could just has a, I think it just has a little too much going
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on. I think it's definitely going to
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be one of the ones when we later on can compare like the soft
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back releases in the other country covers.
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I think we'll pick something other than the one that we've
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seen because it's okay. I think I know what you mean. in
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by the romance, I think like the Something about the boat in the
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waves. Yeah.
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Are like the way they're rendered.
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It's very realistic like popping out.
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Yeah, I like that. The Winkler is on the cover, I
00:04:26
think. Maybe like that should have been
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like maybe a centerpiece instead of the boat.
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But so me and my cat is a discussion about like these
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mountains, the background? Yeah, to the background and like
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those don't look like a mountains that would be next to
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water. They look more like, you know,
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and Canyon mountains. It's like they took.
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They took a handful of the settings and important things in
00:04:46
the book and like through. Them up onto a page in.
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Do you agree that like almost the guys?
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Shoulders look like an even bigger mountain in the
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background. Yeah it's I don't know.
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I just think it has too much going on like eat.
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If you look at the cover for Devil's Hand like it's a dude
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kneeling. And all you can see really is
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like the reflection of his arms and his face and he's in the
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woods and everything else is dark blue.
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There's like, very little to decipher its simple.
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Sometimes simpler is better. All this might start a trend for
00:05:20
the evening, boys, which is I'll be the odd man out.
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I'm pretty high on it. I'll agree with you.
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My first reaction was. Whoa.
00:05:28
These colors are different and varied something about it.
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Is it almost cartoonish when you first glance at.
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Yeah. And so while I did feel that way
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I really came around to it. I really love the layout I think
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it's super cool. Well, maybe one of my favorite
00:05:42
of the original covers, cool it in the series.
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So yeah, between that opinion, being a little out of the
00:05:51
ordinary and my opinion, on the devil's hand, I'm probably going
00:05:54
to take a backseat today on this book and let you guys run the
00:05:58
show a little bit and hopefully, hopefully your discussions will
00:06:01
bring me up a little bit. By the time we get to the
00:06:03
scorecard. I'm really hoping you can give
00:06:06
me a little boost here with with this book.
00:06:08
Yeah, that's far as like the cover goes.
00:06:11
And I know last time we talked about that first Blood cover
00:06:14
that I like that's super simple with with John Rambo running
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away and like it has the words, huge and blood isn't like the
00:06:20
bright red. I like simple stuff like that.
00:06:22
Sometimes it's works the best. So to start it off, Chris, what
00:06:26
do you think about our prologue? Yeah, I was going to say like I
00:06:32
really enjoyed the beginning of this book, you know.
00:06:35
I think I'm super high on, probably the first to Third
00:06:41
Words of the novel and the ending kind of kind of trails
00:06:45
off and we can get into that. Why, you know what, what I think
00:06:49
and will you know where the story kind of breaks down but
00:06:53
you know, it's a typical, you know, mystery like a, you know,
00:06:56
Mystery Box novels. Like, all right, we had this,
00:07:00
you know, we're jumping from place to place.
00:07:02
We don't know how everything is going to going to connect.
00:07:05
In your wanted to turn the page but you want to find out?
00:07:08
All right what's happening? What's going on?
00:07:11
But yeah, you know, just starting off with this, you know
00:07:14
9/11 and because I've, you know again, I reread these books out
00:07:20
of order. So I've already met this
00:07:21
President and remind me, I guess we should say.
00:07:23
Spoiler alerts doesn't this president died in the blood.
00:07:26
Yeah. Wells the ending of it, the
00:07:30
epilogue very in the epilogue and what I was going to ask, as
00:07:33
I couldn't recall, if he died or if they said the It's been shot
00:07:36
and the James Reese is under arrest.
00:07:38
But now that I'm thinking about it, he uses the like he gets
00:07:41
killed the way Reese. Sorry the guy's name is escaping
00:07:46
me in the first book. He was in the in the armored
00:07:48
vehicle. Yes.
00:07:50
The the hardness Senator hardly. Yes.
00:07:53
So the way you re stood that that's how the president is
00:07:57
killed and so they arrest Reese at the end of the book.
00:07:59
You don't know why, right? I'm guessing he's being framed
00:08:04
at some point for it, and That's that's interesting because in
00:08:07
True Believer, they framed Mo for using the same sort of bomb
00:08:11
attack, I think it was a car bomb from a drone, right?
00:08:14
Yeah. And that's the way they framed
00:08:16
his friend Moe and it seems Seems somebody has the same
00:08:20
intention to frame him with the president although we just get
00:08:23
that dropped at the in the epilogue.
00:08:24
So yeah we honestly don't even know what happened or if this is
00:08:27
true or not. But we do know they're taking
00:08:29
Reese Fort. Yeah yeah so I guess you know
00:08:33
obviously jumping ahead to books but When we're now, I'm meeting
00:08:37
this president for the first time, I'm like, who is this guy?
00:08:40
What's going on? Then I realized that oh, we're
00:08:44
back, September 11th, you know, 2001 like it, just I remember
00:08:48
that day, very vividly. You know, I was young, I was in
00:08:52
sixth grade but like, I'll always remember where I was and
00:08:54
I, this is not, I should be laughing, but I just remember my
00:08:58
friend who, for some reason, had a vendetta against Canadians.
00:09:01
I remember him running down the hall.
00:09:03
Screaming, the Canadians, did it the Did it.
00:09:06
And for some reason, I just sticks out in my mind and I
00:09:09
remember, you know, like being plucked out of class and it's a
00:09:12
very like visceral experience every time I see something you
00:09:17
know, going but exists during coital what Watling back and
00:09:20
re-watch friends, right? So so many scenes where they cut
00:09:22
to New York and you see those those Towers.
00:09:25
So it was just a very powerful opening preface and placing us
00:09:30
dead center in the middle. And then when we cut back later
00:09:34
on, in the novel, when We meet the president for real who.
00:09:38
Now he is the President, we get his backstory as rise and then
00:09:41
we find out like what happened after that scene, you know, he
00:09:44
went back in to try to save people.
00:09:47
You lost his fiancee, it's pretty powerful.
00:09:50
I don't know, I really enjoyed his backstory learning about
00:09:56
him. It made me like him.
00:09:57
I feel like I really, really like this President.
00:10:00
And then, when I think about that, oh, shit, he's gone like
00:10:03
after two books like that kind of sucks.
00:10:04
But, um, Actually, just just the very next one.
00:10:08
Yeah. In the blood.
00:10:09
Yeah, he's done at the end of that.
00:10:12
We don't get a lot of time with presidents period in the re
00:10:15
series. No, we don't.
00:10:16
We don't, maybe that's just a thing that Jack likes to do, you
00:10:19
know, because he obviously does it has a problem with the
00:10:21
establishment. I like this one because I like
00:10:24
his background, like you were saying, and I like, how he ended
00:10:26
up winning the presidency and his views on certain things,
00:10:30
Jack just makes this President very likable on purpose, where
00:10:32
he really like, he says that he won.
00:10:35
Because he catered to both sides.
00:10:37
So it would be very hard for anybody to read this book and
00:10:42
dislike that character. There's just stuff that I really
00:10:45
like. I like how he's how he, like,
00:10:47
has him speak to James. I really like all of the Camp
00:10:50
David stuff. Once we get to that, I really
00:10:52
enjoy all the Camp David stuff in this this book.
00:10:55
I think the Camp David conversation, saved the prologue
00:11:00
for me. I almost I was unsure how I felt
00:11:04
when treating this book when it came out and then rereading it
00:11:07
again tonight or this week. I was almost sure Unsure how I
00:11:12
responded to the 911 stuff. Like Chris, very personal me
00:11:15
personal to me and it is to everyone.
00:11:17
Yeah and I just I was in second grade.
00:11:20
Wow. Okay well we thought we were
00:11:22
young Chris. You're the baby of the bad guys.
00:11:25
So yeah it makes from New York so yeah and I was in New York
00:11:30
and not too close. I was on Long.
00:11:31
But a lot of people in my middle school where I was were affected
00:11:35
being pulled out of class, parents working in the towers
00:11:38
and but that's not really it it's more.
00:11:41
If you're going to put it into a novel, I think there's a lot
00:11:45
that has to go with that. I think.
00:11:47
I think it's done appropriately. It's done reverently for sure
00:11:50
you know and and it hits all those checkmarks I just don't
00:11:54
know. If I was ready to read a fiction
00:11:55
story around it and I may be what bothers me, the most is the
00:12:00
president's Too Perfect. T'.
00:12:02
Hmm. That's what I like about James
00:12:04
Reese. Is he so imperfect?
00:12:06
And it just to me while you're right, Tyler, no one can dislike
00:12:10
this President as a man due to his backstory.
00:12:14
I have to say, I think I dislike him as a character in a thriller
00:12:17
verse in the sense of he's almost too perfect.
00:12:20
He's a catch all, you know, just going to write the checks right
00:12:25
off anything you need and it's almost going to make anything
00:12:28
that he wants done. A little too easy to digest.
00:12:31
Best where sometimes what I like about a thriller is the
00:12:35
complexities of the good versus evil.
00:12:37
And here, it's just like Gohan terrorists who started 911 Rara
00:12:40
Rara Rara great. Like everyone should get behind
00:12:42
that. Yeah.
00:12:43
But does it make a compelling story with nuance?
00:12:45
And I don't think the Nuance ever comes out.
00:12:49
Did you buy the Revenge plot line though?
00:12:51
The fact that like he literally only became president to be able
00:12:54
to read some files about like who killed his fiancee?
00:12:57
I didn't buy that. I think American politics, I
00:12:59
think the presidency shouldn't be toast to that.
00:13:02
So, while some people can be like rods of cool book it to me,
00:13:05
that's not that's it's a to simplified version of the
00:13:09
executive branch and I just want something that's dealt with a
00:13:12
little more. Nuance, if you will, I don't
00:13:16
know if I'm expressing myself. Well and then on top of that, I
00:13:19
get bogged down with all the backstories.
00:13:20
He was just one of many backstory.
00:13:22
So even if you were driving with his the next seven or eight
00:13:25
chapters, you're getting another 20 30 50 pages you know
00:13:28
sometimes per person of their backstory.
00:13:30
Yeah there's there's quite a few.
00:13:32
This book again for me is easy to imagine as as something on
00:13:36
film because each chapter really just sticks with a couple
00:13:39
characters in a certain setting and doesn't jump like when it
00:13:42
jumps you're in a next chapter. So it's like whenever we meet
00:13:46
the, the next set of bad guys there at like that Speakeasy and
00:13:51
it stays there for that's a long chapter actually, when we're
00:13:54
introduced to them and get their backgrounds and how they speak
00:13:56
to each other and everything, the senator and the, the
00:13:59
military guy. Yeah.
00:14:00
Yeah. And in the, in the prologue, I
00:14:02
like, how, at first, like, you're with this character, you
00:14:06
realize I don't, I can't recall if they tell you, it's 2001, but
00:14:09
it's definitely not current and they don't tell you, but you get
00:14:13
it because like Testing is new and yeah, texting is new and
00:14:16
then yeah you don't quite realize that they're in New York
00:14:19
until until it happens. And so like that's kind of like
00:14:23
a bit of a shock which I like I think if they would have said
00:14:25
like a Tuesday Morning in September in 2001 and I think
00:14:31
that would have like, taken away, like some of the buildup
00:14:33
in suspense the reveal. Yeah.
00:14:35
Yeah. The reveal I think, really is
00:14:38
served well by the surprise almost that it's 911.
00:14:43
But, yeah, I think I agree a little bit with Mike about the
00:14:46
president being too perfect and he doesn't quite belong in like
00:14:49
a thriller verse, but the good news is he, he's only around for
00:14:52
two books. So, well, and now that my
00:14:55
brother, another kind of makes sense as Why he is?
00:14:59
You know, I guess why Jack God, he's so easy to get rid of
00:15:02
because, you know, you can obviously, tell throughout this
00:15:06
entire Thriller novel. What Jax mindset was during
00:15:10
writing this right, you know, covid happening.
00:15:13
Everything that happened post towards Floyd is happening.
00:15:16
Yeah, you know, all that's those are two major influences that he
00:15:19
injects into this story, Into the sing.
00:15:22
So he created this ideal. I don't want to piss off, people
00:15:25
go through to the end to this is of what, you know, the current
00:15:28
president at the time, Could have been even an antithesis of
00:15:31
what our current president is right now.
00:15:32
You know sort of stripping down and getting away from to Old
00:15:37
imperfect men to like someone who is Young ideal candidate
00:15:41
that can again play the both sides of the party maybe I don't
00:15:45
want to this would be interesting question to ask Jack
00:15:47
is why he recreated, you know why did he make them Democrat?
00:15:51
Why did he why do you make them? You know, this guy from
00:15:53
California, you know like what was his mind thinking in the
00:15:56
creation of this character or if you even thought about that kind
00:15:59
of Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it was a
00:16:04
balance between wanting to be so super real because just look at
00:16:07
all the research Jack put in and then the author's note at the
00:16:10
end and even the author's note in the beginning which are
00:16:13
always slam dunks from Jack. Yeah.
00:16:15
His books are obviously real well-researched and things about
00:16:19
like the Marburg variant were real and in so many other parts
00:16:23
of us were so real and then to basically have a cartoon of a
00:16:26
president who feels so unreal. And I I can't see anything about
00:16:32
him and his backstory being honest to the real world.
00:16:36
I was caught between these two worlds of some of the drama
00:16:39
seems really real, but some of the characters seem cartoonish.
00:16:42
Yeah, for me, he's cartoonish until you get to Camp David.
00:16:45
And he talks to, to James. And I think I'm with Chris to on
00:16:49
this, that, I like that. Man had a goal in was driven
00:16:53
basically get his revenge and we know what that feels like in the
00:16:56
series because of James and term.
00:16:58
He wants to get revenge his way, which is This he doesn't.
00:17:03
He just playing the long game. He's playing the long game,
00:17:05
whereas James did not. James was action right now
00:17:09
revenge like tomorrow, and this guy's playing the long game to
00:17:13
get to get his revenge back. So, that's why I that's where I
00:17:17
kind of like him, but I definitely get what you're
00:17:20
saying when you say, like, you know, he's a little unbelievable
00:17:22
into perfect and he doesn't quite belong.
00:17:26
And I liked your especially during the Camp, David scene
00:17:28
where he drills down the point, you know, he has framed that
00:17:32
like whatever Congress passed. Yeah.
00:17:35
You know, essentially the giving, you know, and he
00:17:39
reporter and obviously it's written this way.
00:17:41
Reporter has to read that line, like four times in that chapter
00:17:44
instead of driving home. And then it's like, that's never
00:17:46
really brought up again. I think, at one point Vic
00:17:49
Rodriguez says, president's assassinating American citizens
00:17:53
on foreign soil, like, but you know, We set this President,
00:17:58
obviously thinks he's acting the parameters of the law.
00:18:02
And I liked how like a framed it in real life.
00:18:04
All right, circumstances Jamie you can do this because of this
00:18:08
but then I felt like that was never like followed up on it
00:18:11
again. It's one of the ending like
00:18:14
loose ends that I didn't quite jive with Mike on your points of
00:18:19
research. You know.
00:18:20
As a scientist myself I'm not a biologist.
00:18:22
I'm not up epidemiologist but you know I I know science and I
00:18:27
thought like it was it was pretty viable, you know pretty
00:18:30
believable. I've read a lot of novels Where
00:18:33
they do not get this, right? The I guess we can get into like
00:18:37
my you know Chris has science quarter later science quarter
00:18:40
later on you about virus stuff because there's one glaring
00:18:45
glaring inconsistency that if I can't get an answer from you
00:18:49
guys on it it's really going to tank the book for me so I do
00:18:53
want to get safer later. Yeah okay.
00:18:56
Yeah I was just going to say on the executive order I actually
00:18:59
looked it up an executive order 12333. 33 part, 2 paragraph 13
00:19:04
in real life, was the Prohibition on assassination,
00:19:07
and all of that text was real and speaking of How, It's not
00:19:12
really followed up on, it's a shame because there was one
00:19:15
nugget of it that I really liked.
00:19:17
I forget if they went into the actual bunker or if they were
00:19:20
just in the situation room but he has this whole like Security
00:19:23
Council and they're all talking in the White House about the
00:19:26
Four Points of an assassination that will Mark the criteria and
00:19:30
make it clear that bunker yet together.
00:19:32
They are in the bunker at that point and so it has to be an
00:19:34
enemy combatant with evidence of being an enemy.
00:19:37
Combatant arrest is not a feasible course of action.
00:19:41
There's been a collateral damage assessment and there's an
00:19:43
investigation after the fact to produce evidence that there was
00:19:46
no collateral damage in the hit, I feel like all that is super
00:19:50
highly realistic and how that conversation goes down is
00:19:53
awesome but it's only one little and it's one of the shorter
00:19:56
chapters. And so with all these long
00:19:58
chapters on backstory and then short chapters about really cool
00:20:02
stuff like that. Yeah I just feel like it was
00:20:04
unbalanced. Yeah.
00:20:07
What did you guys think of the different?
00:20:09
I felt like this was a little bit different style.
00:20:11
Going long chapter couple short long chapter.
00:20:14
Yeah. I feel like we haven't had that
00:20:16
from Jack yet. It's been there Ben.
00:20:19
You know, I feel like terminal and True Believer were just like
00:20:21
consistently, you know, length chapters, until we get to the
00:20:25
end where typical most of these trailers, tend to go fast at the
00:20:28
end until we get to the prologue, right?
00:20:30
Heard of the epilogue, but this was a little bit different.
00:20:34
I am, I liked it. I specially like some of the
00:20:37
longer ones with the bad guys a little bit.
00:20:40
The, you know, the politician in the ex-military guy with the
00:20:43
private Force. I don't know why I so like those
00:20:46
are the bad guys that they aren't really relatable.
00:20:50
But they make good bad guys and then you know, are terrorists.
00:20:53
Bad guys, what I really like about this book is he makes
00:20:57
nothing about the terrorist villains, likable, or relatable,
00:21:02
they are there to To basically just be extinguished and you
00:21:06
know there's like some stuff about the jar Cobbs that you
00:21:13
kind of like just because they make good villains.
00:21:15
Whereas these bad guys you know you literally just want to see
00:21:18
their lights get put out, but something else I liked about
00:21:20
Camp. David is he talks about the
00:21:22
Munich Massacre from 1972 at the Olympics and he brings up
00:21:25
Mossad. Right helmet.
00:21:27
Mossad assassinated a ton of people.
00:21:30
Yeah. And which I think is important
00:21:33
for In the blood because it focuses heavily on Mossad will
00:21:37
that goes with the opening quote because this whole book you know
00:21:42
how each one of Jack's Brooks has like that one line theme
00:21:45
that he sticks to. Yeah.
00:21:46
Like Savage sun was The Dark Side of man through the dynamic
00:21:48
Hunter and Hunted. Yes, I feel like hear his
00:21:51
opening quote which comes from the talmud and Jewish studies
00:21:54
and was used as the basis for the Israeli assassination
00:21:57
program. The state-run assassination
00:21:59
program after the events of the eunuch Massacre and this quote
00:22:02
is the title of Rome. Bergman's rise and kill first.
00:22:05
A book, all about the the start of Israel state-sponsored
00:22:08
assassinations it's quote if someone comes to kill you, rise
00:22:13
up and kill him first, and the book is called rise and kill
00:22:16
first. How that's the only way is real
00:22:18
could defend itself. I feel like this President and
00:22:21
reefs are responding to that because we didn't rise and kill
00:22:24
first. Yeah, they did the terrorists
00:22:27
and so this is like our response to do.
00:22:30
We need a program like that, you know, should we debate that?
00:22:33
Public sphere and did the Israelis know, something about
00:22:37
how they had to protect their National interest.
00:22:39
So I like this idea of rise and kill first as a theme for this
00:22:42
book and when you don't rise and kill first, but the enemy has
00:22:45
been planning and doing that. How do you respond?
00:22:48
Yeah, right. And another another theme
00:22:51
carryover is like the prologue in the the author's note from
00:22:54
True Believer, how the enemy has been learning and just
00:22:58
witnessing and watching us and they he I think he actually
00:23:02
might repeat it. Not not word for word in here,
00:23:05
but he talks about how, you know, they're trying to find a
00:23:08
way to Cripple us from the inside and they've just been
00:23:11
watching us. So like it even brings over some
00:23:12
of those themes from True Believer for, you know, the
00:23:15
group, the group of bad guys that are that are creating the
00:23:17
virus. So, I've been waiting for 20
00:23:20
years is, yeah, she goes. And, you know, even here like
00:23:24
the one guy at the end, right? Where the guy who was in Maine
00:23:27
who recessed interior, you know, pretends to almost give the
00:23:31
virus to The guy said like, I want to call this attack off
00:23:35
because we saw that you guys could just do it yourself and
00:23:38
like that. So yeah, definitely carry over
00:23:41
from True Believer. Yeah.
00:23:43
So I can't remember if it's before, or after Camp David, but
00:23:46
something else is sticks out in my mind is whenever they give
00:23:49
you a little bit of a back story, on a terrorist that has
00:23:51
been in Doctrine into a cell and they tell him that he needs to
00:23:56
take the inhaler gasps and spread it in the market.
00:24:00
And he has like pills that are going to protect him and it's
00:24:02
only going to infect The Jews. And obviously, he, he dies like
00:24:08
a fool. So, I can't recall that before
00:24:11
or after, but that's just a good example of just how deceiving
00:24:16
and deceitful, they are even to their own to their recruits
00:24:19
basically. And that was the test case,
00:24:21
right in Angola. Yeah.
00:24:22
That was really on. Yeah.
00:24:25
Yeah. So I guess like, you know, we're
00:24:26
having this, it's to bring us back to the plot a little bit.
00:24:30
We get the prologue, we jump to seeing James again.
00:24:35
Then we're Jumping All Around to these different stuff that's
00:24:38
happening in Africa. Angola right?
00:24:41
And then we're moving around with this.
00:24:44
Very the one scientists right from by iodine.
00:24:48
As he's going going around goes to Colorado to meet with the
00:24:53
grad student. I again I thought this whole
00:24:57
part of the book was pretty engaging.
00:25:00
I was intrigued by the story line that by the plot line is
00:25:03
one thing that you you had mentioned.
00:25:05
When I read that line, that it will only it only kill the Jews.
00:25:09
I was like, I guess, because i'm, I was thinking about Brad
00:25:12
door, Mike, bradd Thor. Yeah, that's going to say the
00:25:14
same how they had, you know, the disease that was I wasn't gonna
00:25:19
kill Muslims because the Muslims are going to drink this antidote
00:25:22
water, and I was like, I know, I hope we're not going down like
00:25:25
some, something like that. Again, it was just a ruse.
00:25:28
Yeah. Thankfully, we But I like that,
00:25:31
I like that. It's not like that.
00:25:32
Something else I enjoyed from the beginning of the book before
00:25:34
we move on to the to you know, the middle section is Reese
00:25:39
getting and Terry if you like the interrogation test and then
00:25:43
the polygraph. Yeah, polygraph was all
00:25:45
fantastic. Yeah, fantastic like that stuff.
00:25:47
There's so many scenes coming. We haven't even talked about
00:25:49
that one stands out. Oh it's fantastic.
00:25:53
And it's also serving two purposes.
00:25:55
It's chapter one. So we went through this prologue
00:25:58
where some people like me were Okay.
00:26:00
Well, where's Reese and where's the Hastings?
00:26:02
And that's how I feel with every prologue every prologue.
00:26:05
I'm like, I'm like, all right, I want to get back to what I like
00:26:08
and then like, halfway through the book.
00:26:09
I'm like, okay, I want actually more of the prologue because it
00:26:12
was awesome. Yeah.
00:26:14
So even if you're one of those people like us who's trying to
00:26:16
get through the prologue and then boom.
00:26:18
When they when the polygraph hits and it's recounting all of
00:26:22
going back to the terminal list. Yeah, he's literally, they're
00:26:25
answering the questions, thinking every single Kill from
00:26:28
terminal list up through. Average Sun.
00:26:31
It all is a flashback in his mind, so I thought that scene
00:26:33
was written. Well, it got us caught up as the
00:26:36
reader if you didn't read the other books.
00:26:38
Yeah, first off, what's wrong with you?
00:26:40
But two, it gives you the coolest highlights and the most
00:26:44
badass snapshots of them in a way.
00:26:45
You know, who Reese's and you even see Vic Rodriguez going
00:26:49
through the results and it's like false negative or whatever
00:26:53
or true, possible, deception, deception deception.
00:26:56
So, you know, you know, when you're lying, what conclusive.
00:26:59
Deception indicated. Yeah.
00:27:01
And then declines it. Anyway, it's fantastic.
00:27:04
It's a really cool way to, you know, have a catch-up The Reader
00:27:11
chapter or yeah, catching the reader paragraph like it's an
00:27:13
inventive way that I haven't seen before to like, you know,
00:27:17
you have to obviously, it's then sprinkled out a little bit
00:27:19
throughout the rest of the novel.
00:27:20
But getting it right in the first chapter, is a cool way to
00:27:24
bring people up to speed. Yeah, I definitely enjoyed that
00:27:26
chapter, especially the way listening to it on.
00:27:28
Audiobook the way Ray. Porter reads.
00:27:30
That was pretty perfect. So it might be my favorite
00:27:34
chapter in the book, chapter 1 and then it goes downhill.
00:27:38
It just might be a little from there for Mike.
00:27:41
So I was pretty intrigued by chapter 4 though, like, with
00:27:45
the, for Dietrich scene. Sure.
00:27:47
One because, you know, I've been to Fort Detrick and like, I
00:27:50
actually applied before I got my first job to work in Fort
00:27:56
Detrick just as a master's student in in their lab mainly
00:27:59
because Cuz I knew one of the people I was with in college.
00:28:03
Her dad is a in the middle like kind of like what that guy with
00:28:07
the I forget his name but essentially does what he does
00:28:11
and he doesn't say he doesn't say that but I'm assuming I got
00:28:14
that's what that's what he does. You know, the fact that there's
00:28:16
this hidden, you know, and he gets it right again to his
00:28:19
research with the science. Like I was, I was waiting for
00:28:22
him to say there's something above level 4 level 5, which is
00:28:25
not real like it's yeah, it is level 4 and like but he's right
00:28:28
like people think that You know, you sort of progress through
00:28:31
these progression and he Hannah's research right in terms
00:28:33
of like what bio level safety for is.
00:28:37
Would you have to do when you go into a bsl-4 a lab?
00:28:40
It was to T. He definitely did.
00:28:42
It is research with that, but then the fact that there's this
00:28:44
hidden compartment where they go do, you know, essentially under
00:28:49
what is called, it's a terminology used in genetics to
00:28:52
where you weapon gain of function.
00:28:54
Mutation is essentially gain-of-function mutational,
00:28:56
research in order to weaponize these things not to fight
00:28:59
against it but actually use them.
00:29:01
Yeah, and you know, the president pointed out, the fact
00:29:06
that Do you think do you believe in the Deep State race?
00:29:10
He says, and he's like In redeemed.
00:29:13
You say what do you mean like? Well, the Deep state is real but
00:29:15
not in the sense that you think like there is a deep state but
00:29:18
it's just it's hiding and it is in plain sight, you're seeing it
00:29:21
play outside like this group of a secret cabal of people at a
00:29:25
pizza parlor. It's a it's actually, you know,
00:29:30
tech companies, Purdue Pharma right.
00:29:32
You know, politicians lobbyists. What not think that is?
00:29:36
What is controlling the masses? And also in the sense that Be
00:29:43
lying to yourself. If you didn't believe that we
00:29:47
every country that has the capability to do.
00:29:49
This stuff is actually working you know on whether or not
00:29:52
they're actually using it to study it for weaponization.
00:29:56
They're definitely stunning it, you know just for research sake
00:30:01
you know in case we need to develop vaccines for our
00:30:04
military develop vaccines for you know and then He was right
00:30:08
that both for Dietrich. And Colorado.
00:30:12
And The CDC Center in Atlanta. Those are the two bsl-4 Labs
00:30:18
that contain have every single infectious disease.
00:30:22
You know, they have a SARS, they have yeah.
00:30:25
Vers. They even probably have polio
00:30:27
there, you know. So two thumbs up from the doctor
00:30:30
or the Pod is what? Yeah.
00:30:32
I mean in early on and then then we sort of delve into science,
00:30:36
more science fiction like how which last two things I wanted
00:30:40
to say for this section of the book was I really liked at Camp
00:30:43
David? Whenever The president asks
00:30:45
James, why do you think I picked you for this?
00:30:47
And he figured he realizes he because I've done this before,
00:30:52
he did a list himself before. And so that's the answer, why?
00:30:56
I just like how the lines delivered, especially when Ray
00:30:58
Porter reads it? And then the other thing I
00:31:00
wanted to say was Jack was researching this topic before
00:31:05
covid, hit, right? And like, this was already going
00:31:08
to happen. And then Plus, on top of that,
00:31:10
all the George void stuff is threaded in, but this topic was
00:31:13
not selected. Because of covid.
00:31:15
It just happened to happen like that and he was saying like, he
00:31:20
needs to watch what he writes about because like the Ukraine
00:31:23
and Russia of war was in True Believer.
00:31:26
You know, at least talked about or discussed in that book and
00:31:29
stuff like that keeps happening and he keeps saying that he
00:31:33
needs to watch what he writes about.
00:31:34
So I thought just thought that was funny.
00:31:36
Yeah. Anti since you haven't gotten
00:31:39
into it, the same happened with Kyle Mills and as much wrap
00:31:42
Series. So, yeah, I think it was When
00:31:45
did lethal agent? Come out, Chris.
00:31:47
Wasn't it just like six months or so before covid, wasn't it?
00:31:50
Yeah, it came out September, 2019. 2019 G.
00:31:53
Yeah, and it was all about a SARS virus virus.
00:31:58
Yeah. And everything about it was
00:32:00
uncanny. It was so close to what covid-19
00:32:14
It was the first time you read it.
00:32:15
Exactly. That same thing happened of like
00:32:18
it's too close to home and you were already deep into the
00:32:20
research and you're writing a book quite literally about what
00:32:23
happens. Well, then Kyle had a series of
00:32:26
where, you know, he did that in the next one was total power
00:32:30
talking about the lack of our infrastructure.
00:32:33
And then since that book has come out, we've had multiple
00:32:36
attacks on, you know, the Texas grid went out highlighting up
00:32:40
how it's, you know, vulnerable and then we have the most recent
00:32:43
this year attacks on On being placed in North Carolina, South
00:32:46
Carolina. Yeah, these authors need to stop
00:32:49
writing things because they they're Nostradamus has right?
00:32:52
Yeah. Can we get into the virus for a
00:32:54
second? Because Chris you gave us some
00:32:56
really, really good back story. And I'm glad we've got a subject
00:32:59
matter expert here. I think so my critiques here and
00:33:05
I won't do too much on it, but I think my critiques year are more
00:33:08
plot-related than they are scientific, you know?
00:33:11
Sure, I can forgive an author. Whose research is really, really
00:33:14
good. But there's one thing they have
00:33:16
to make up, you know, that's not true for the sake of the story.
00:33:19
Sure. You know, that's fine.
00:33:21
But to me, the whole thing with Haley and so we're at the part
00:33:25
of the story and maybe this comes a little later, but
00:33:29
Basically, the eradication plan is in play and, and I want to
00:33:32
get your take on this to guys. I've do you think we have plans
00:33:37
on standby that if a possible virus or disease, that can
00:33:42
threaten and the scientific Community agrees can threaten up
00:33:46
to 90% of our population. If we can contain it with
00:33:50
military force to one city, or a couple of cities, do you think
00:33:55
the nuclear options on the table?
00:33:57
And I know these are fuel air bombs so it's not nuclear but
00:34:00
Zen declaring them, you know, it's the biggest non-nuclear
00:34:03
weapon in our Arsenal. Do you think eradication plans
00:34:06
are in place before I give my other critique I do want to get
00:34:08
your take on the will we blow up our own cities?
00:34:11
If necessary to save the greater good, if you will to keep the
00:34:15
country going and does the government have plans to do
00:34:17
that? Jack says at the end, he'd be
00:34:19
surprised. If we don't he doesn't have
00:34:21
evidence that we do have these plans but he does say knowing
00:34:24
what Nose in the people he's talking to he would be surprised
00:34:28
if we don't. Just what's your general take on
00:34:30
that? So again, I think like if you
00:34:34
you'd be naive to think that we didn't have, there's a
00:34:37
difference between having a plan to do something and actually
00:34:40
doing something. So, do I think we have a plan
00:34:44
for this? Sure do.
00:34:46
I think we would ever use it? I don't know.
00:34:49
Do you think people in late 1945 ever thought that we were going
00:34:52
to do a drop a nuclear bomb on another country.
00:34:55
Yeah so I you know I think People in Japan would say, yeah,
00:35:01
sure we probably would. You know, I think it has to get
00:35:06
really bad to me. And again, I guess we can dig
00:35:11
into my my sort of related to my problem with the science here is
00:35:17
that the people the CBC were are now, they're not investigating.
00:35:23
There's this one sole person who happens to have teamed up with
00:35:26
James Reese, who she has this Theory or she, you know she
00:35:30
obviously understands what are not is and can see that.
00:35:33
It's growing way too fast. Like, no, that's not how it
00:35:37
works. All right?
00:35:38
Yes, there is the CDC, but there are the CDC.
00:35:41
Then it happened during covid, right?
00:35:44
Everyone started working on covid-19 wreck.
00:35:47
We all, you know, I even like had a little side project.
00:35:50
We're like using my little expertise like, can I can I in
00:35:54
somehow, you know, affect this. So something like this was to
00:35:59
happen. Every single, you know,
00:36:01
Professor grad, student, whatever, that's willing to You
00:36:06
know, every one of the NIH is going to transition into doing
00:36:10
something to study this virus and there's a lot of
00:36:14
epidemiologists out there that would see that the are not
00:36:17
something is not right with this Arnon and you know, these people
00:36:21
are very good at what they do. And so there wouldn't be this
00:36:25
one person who's like, trying to sound the alarm and she would
00:36:29
have been such shut down because it makes sense or her
00:36:32
conclusions are perfect. In the sense that All right, we
00:36:35
know, we know how things and I guess, you know, you can argue,
00:36:38
well, it could be something new, you know, we never seen before.
00:36:43
But that's where his plot all these plot sort of unravels in
00:36:47
the sense that, because he didn't do it correctly and like
00:36:51
move around in the certain way in a certain path to sort of
00:36:55
slowly progress. This disease, jumping around
00:36:58
from what he goes from Colorado to Texas, then to Atlanta.
00:37:03
Yeah. Without like having the Actions.
00:37:06
So there would be other people that would fight against this
00:37:11
and the fact that if there's any question that it whether or not
00:37:14
it is or isn't respiratory, then I think there's my big question.
00:37:20
Wouldn't this be put to rest? I feel like we go from zero to
00:37:24
60 in seconds that the president is going to essentially nuke,
00:37:28
our own cities or wipe out our own cities to contain this
00:37:31
thing. And were acting as if the entire
00:37:34
scientific apparatus. You explain has concluded that
00:37:40
this is a respiratory disease that it spreads like covid did
00:37:44
but with a much higher death rate and it's just kind of
00:37:47
written as if we can accept that that happened, and then there's
00:37:52
this one Lone Wolf who happens to be friends.
00:37:54
With Katie who happened was meeting with them for dinner.
00:37:56
Who says, I don't think it spreads respiratory really well,
00:38:00
you just look at the evidence like, Like it wouldn't
00:38:03
scientist, Chris like yourself have just Baseline data of where
00:38:07
this has spread to the rates at which it has spread the number
00:38:10
of infected and automatically wouldn't even people in just a
00:38:14
hospital on the floor already know whether it spreads that way
00:38:17
or not. Yet there's this one Lone Ranger
00:38:20
going out there to save the day and the rest of the scientific
00:38:23
community and all these research institutions are just idiots who
00:38:25
don't see it? Like I don't know if I could buy
00:38:28
that. Yeah, that's what I meant
00:38:30
earlier before we started recording where I said like
00:38:32
things. To convenient and to just well
00:38:35
placed to where I think that's maybe my biggest hang-up with
00:38:39
with this. Like I can I can suspend my
00:38:45
disbelief for how quick they go from like this is just a virus
00:38:49
that we need to contain to. This is a virus that we need to
00:38:53
start destroying cities to prevent the spread like you have
00:38:57
to spend, like suspend your disbelief for just for just that
00:39:00
topic. And then like you can be along
00:39:01
for the rest of the Ride. But I really think one of my
00:39:05
favorite characters in this book.
00:39:08
Actually, is the doctor. Yes, in the hospital.
00:39:11
I really liked his point of view.
00:39:13
I like, how he's written. I like what he does.
00:39:16
I like when he realizes what's going on and what he his actions
00:39:21
and stuff, and pretty much too late for him.
00:39:23
And I, like, I like the doctor. I can't remember his name, but I
00:39:27
like the doctor character. A lot.
00:39:28
Yeah, his name is Jay, Jay something dr.
00:39:31
J. Yeah.
00:39:32
I like it. Background and the president
00:39:34
visits his funeral. Yeah.
00:39:36
It was great. Yeah, there's there's some cool
00:39:39
little chapters like that, you know, the sort of that are
00:39:42
Standalone in the sense that, you know, we're only we only go
00:39:44
there. Once we only meet these people.
00:39:46
Once that really stand out especially with the writing of
00:39:49
that chapter, you get the sense of this like Terror and how it
00:39:52
could go. My whole thing is like, I think.
00:39:56
if Ali's attack had continued and he had been successful in
00:40:01
deploying this aerosol device you know more strategically or
00:40:06
more spread out or like you know begun to and also her point the
00:40:09
fact that If this one plane did go from Angola to Johannesburg
00:40:14
to Britain and Germany owners in the city.
00:40:17
There's no outbreaks overseas. Yeah.
00:40:19
So like immediately that's just sends up red flags and like all
00:40:22
right we need to Let's pause regroup.
00:40:24
Let's think about this. What are some of the
00:40:26
possibilities? You know, one realize that
00:40:28
before we start blowing up I do like how they talk about the
00:40:31
Russians. Using an F AE on a village to
00:40:33
prevent a spread because that actually happens.
00:40:37
And right? I just I get.
00:40:39
If your idea is, I heard. The Russians did this.
00:40:42
Once I want to make a thriller novel out of it.
00:40:45
Great. But I don't think you have to do
00:40:47
this one to one. The Russians did it once.
00:40:49
Can you imagine if we had to do it to our own cities and like
00:40:52
you're so dead set on that like taking that example and saying,
00:40:55
what if it happened here that you don't actually have a
00:40:57
storyline that works? You know like it's cool and
00:40:59
authors do those kinds of things but it's still has to work in
00:41:03
the universe and be realistic and nothing about this tattoo.
00:41:07
This attack, rang rang true to me and how it was being analyzed
00:41:10
and dealt with Thoroughly handle, let me pose this
00:41:14
question. Like, what if let's say the
00:41:16
virus, what if Jack had written at the virus, They Were Somehow
00:41:19
able to make it essentially make the most deadliest, you know, if
00:41:21
you turn a hemorrhagic fever, turning a bowl like virus in and
00:41:25
had give it the Permissibility, spreadability of like a
00:41:29
covid-19. It literally is the greatest
00:41:32
killer ever. Yeah, I'd be scared.
00:41:34
What if what if Jack had written a story like that and like James
00:41:39
James was had to stop it. You know, I don't know how you
00:41:42
stop it and that points we are getting into this more science
00:41:45
fiction E-Type thing. I think I would have liked it
00:41:47
way more if you literally just had Ali and his team or whoever
00:41:52
else the terrorists are because honestly, they confused me too
00:41:54
and they all get jumbled up which I think is a pretty
00:41:57
Problem on another level if somehow they either contracted
00:42:01
or co-opted or had someone who was so good at science who made
00:42:05
that for them or they hijacked some sort of research lab or
00:42:10
were secretly, infiltrating it or whatever and they had a way
00:42:13
to make the disease, exactly what people keep people like you
00:42:16
and me up at night, you know, thinking what covid could have
00:42:18
been or what Kyle Mills has told us, you know, this next one's
00:42:21
coming. This, this was not it, there's a
00:42:23
bigger one, if it was, that I would have liked this book more.
00:42:28
Instead of terrorists trying to fake it and then pulling the
00:42:30
wool over our eyes, so freaking easily to the point where we
00:42:33
blow ourselves up over it. You know, I would have rather
00:42:36
had a real-life attack that could have happened that way,
00:42:39
that maybe was happening that way and then when the hero steps
00:42:43
in to solve it or contain it even better, I think that would
00:42:46
have been a better story. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I
00:42:50
just, I agree with you. It's like, oh, this is cool
00:42:52
idea. Let me figure out a way to work
00:42:55
that into the book, but if you can get, honestly, I'm not
00:42:58
supposed to bring you guys down. You're supposed to bring that,
00:43:00
sorry. But if you get rid of This like
00:43:05
threat of you mean just the fact that there's this Ebola virus,
00:43:10
you know, on us soil. That's like killing a lot of
00:43:13
people. It's blood contact.
00:43:15
It doesn't matter. No.
00:43:17
But he was able to are he was able to aerosolize it.
00:43:19
So yeah, that's what I'm saying if he had had like a bigger cell
00:43:22
that you got to go to HVAC systems then in a skyscraper or
00:43:25
something like, you know, you have to do something more
00:43:27
believable than spray it in a Mall food court.
00:43:29
And they had like, they had like, let's say they had 100
00:43:32
different cells, right, 100 different cities.
00:43:35
That would have been Bells the United States that deposited
00:43:37
this both at hospitals and in shopping malls all at once and
00:43:42
you're like holy shit and then we're ramping it up again.
00:43:46
You have you'd have to hit, you'd have to hit other
00:43:49
countries because you know it wouldn't make sense.
00:43:52
That's not a cell anymore. That's an army of people.
00:43:54
Yeah. True in you're making a whole
00:43:56
different story makes no I think you got to go there though.
00:43:59
I think spraying it in a few cities at a couple of malls or
00:44:02
whatever and you Oh, all of a sudden from that jump to, this
00:44:06
thing's going to kill 90% of our country.
00:44:08
Does not make any complete sense, but if you have 30 40 50,
00:44:12
major of your cities hit at once with a couple hundred to a
00:44:15
couple thousand in the hospital's, you'll raise the
00:44:18
alarms, like, what the hell is going on a couple of cities
00:44:21
because it was sprayed in a mall.
00:44:23
I think I prefer it being a trick rather than real.
00:44:26
Because I think if it's if it's real, like come on, this is
00:44:31
James Reese. Like I understand he's Action
00:44:35
Hero is the main character, but if it's real, he's going to need
00:44:39
more than this. CDC chick to make.
00:44:41
Ya know, he has even either like someone to come up with a
00:44:43
vaccine, right? It's a, if it's a trick, not
00:44:46
only can, can he out him with the help of, his, of his people.
00:44:51
You know, he kind of outsmart summer at least figures out the
00:44:54
mystery. That's another thing I like
00:44:55
especially about the first book Is that there's a mystery aspect
00:44:58
to it. Once he figures it out, then
00:45:00
it's like game on and he can like he can kind of outsmart
00:45:05
them, but he can definitely outfight them every time.
00:45:08
So I think it being a trick, it needs to stay a trick.
00:45:12
I think, if it goes real, I think it's above jeans, Reese's
00:45:15
head of it. All right, I buy the about.
00:45:18
Okay. Okay.
00:45:20
It was a week trick although let me give you this angle on it,
00:45:27
the trick part was good in the sense that it drove a wedge
00:45:31
between people in our society. You know the way social media
00:45:35
were tearing ourselves apart these beers theories here.
00:45:38
So if the terrorists do hit us with a trick that in the end is
00:45:40
not that deadly but that wasn't its intent.
00:45:43
Its intent was to further divide the nation.
00:45:46
But yeah, you know, based on bullshit.
00:45:48
I'm okay with that angle of it. I think.
00:45:50
Here's one of my favorite. You know, I got the quotes one
00:45:53
of my favorite quotes from the book which if this was explored
00:45:57
just a little more, I agree with you.
00:45:59
The whole trick aspect of the terrorists, you know, pulling
00:46:02
one on us, could have worked where you turn our greatest
00:46:06
strength against us and that's the freedom of speech.
00:46:09
And so, Ali says, quote, allele of the power of a free press its
00:46:14
power was Amplified when everyone had a voice theories
00:46:17
without a foundation in facts or basis in reality.
00:46:20
We could take flight and go viral.
00:46:22
No barriers to entry, no editors, no fact-checking, or if
00:46:25
there was fact-checking it, couldn't be trusted,
00:46:28
fact-checkers had by season agendas to after all the loudest
00:46:31
voices dominated, the chaos that was social media, hysteria and
00:46:36
all of it contributed to the chaos suppression and censorship
00:46:39
only fueled the flames. I think if you lean into that
00:46:45
angle, you lean into the protesters.
00:46:47
Instead of just, oh, recent, whoever is driving an SUV
00:46:52
through a protest that just happens to stop them and they
00:46:55
run over some people and they're getting shot at and they get out
00:46:58
of this protest. If you, if you moved into those
00:47:01
protests nearly causing a civil war, or it, or even so much as
00:47:05
some fake news about this. Go, so viral that people start
00:47:08
doing ridiculously crazy stuff around the country.
00:47:12
You know, it was kind of cool when the tanks were standing off
00:47:14
against the population and the people weren't going to stand
00:47:17
for the containment any longer. Yeah.
00:47:19
And like where we going to have to mow down a line of protesters
00:47:23
who are simply people saying I have the right to leave, my city
00:47:26
or go around my city or be where I want to be.
00:47:29
And that was really cool but it was a short snippet.
00:47:32
The Free Press. You Seen the Last of Us?
00:47:34
No, yes, it's so good. I've heard I love, I love the
00:47:38
games and the show is incredible so far, that actually Chris
00:47:43
after we were done recording. I was going to ask if you had
00:47:45
watched it. No, definitely watch the last
00:47:47
was Michael week. We can talk but okay.
00:47:49
Can't we lean into that kind of stuff here, though, or even
00:47:52
like, what Kyle Mills did he had that podcaster?
00:47:54
Jed in total power. Basically narrating people using
00:47:59
social media. Media and podcasts through a
00:48:01
crisis and he was the voice that the people listen to not the
00:48:04
government. And so we're leaning into too
00:48:07
many angles here that get drowned out when they were
00:48:10
really cool Concepts, they come off as half-baked.
00:48:14
Yeah. I think like, maybe if we had
00:48:15
had a little bit more diving into the chaos cut kind of like,
00:48:19
you know, we enjoyed, you know, like what you said, Tyler, you
00:48:22
enjoyed that chapter with the doctor in Texas if we had had,
00:48:27
you know, a family in a row You know, or, you know, someone in
00:48:30
Atlanta as they're like, you know, going into a house or even
00:48:33
like getting the perspective of someone who's a neighbor of that
00:48:37
guy of the guy in Denver, right, who seeing James walk up in a
00:48:42
hazmat suit to this house, right to get.
00:48:44
And then he comes out with a bloody guy, in a hazmat suit, it
00:48:48
gives a little bit more waiting This.
00:48:50
And like you said, at the very beginning, you can see this
00:48:54
novel would be a really good visually, you know, visual
00:48:57
medium to like play out some of these things.
00:48:59
Eames. I'll agree that with you Mike,
00:49:01
that that scene where he has to drive through.
00:49:05
The mob and his, the CIA driver ends up dying.
00:49:08
That that was a weird scene to me.
00:49:10
Like just it felt a little out of place.
00:49:13
I agree. It was just there because of
00:49:14
2020. It was relevant at the time.
00:49:16
So let me throw it in like yeah, I guess.
00:49:20
Yeah. And Jack did some really good
00:49:21
things on like Fox News and what not talking about, how to
00:49:24
protect yourself and your family in a protest.
00:49:27
So the fact that he could write about that in a thriller and we
00:49:29
could hear from his point of view, what the characters would
00:49:32
need to do is amazing Just why there.
00:49:36
It just didn't work at the time and place for me.
00:49:39
Yeah, I agree. It's a little out of place.
00:49:46
All right. Thank you guys, for checking out
00:49:48
our podcast, on the devil's hand.
00:49:52
You know, maybe you're like, at Tyler.
00:49:55
Maybe you're like a mic or maybe you're like me, just in the
00:49:57
middle, you know, the Goldilocks the Apostle on breadth or pod
00:50:03
and Sleeping Bear By Connor Sullivan on this pod.
00:50:08
All right. It go go.
00:50:09
Check those out. Get ready.
00:50:13
Do your homework. Do your homework people?
00:50:16
Yeah. Those will be our.
00:50:16
Next two books will be covering between now and and hopefully,
00:50:22
the, the first part of February a lot of reading.
00:50:24
We got to do here, Chris. Yes.
00:50:28
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